Author Topic: Mike Mangini and Portnoy--daisy picking and skipping through meadows?  (Read 23875 times)

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Offline Tick

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Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
« Reply #105 on: June 30, 2014, 11:33:50 AM »
Perhaps the band jumped for joy over Mike wanting the indefinite break? It would appear it may have been the escape clause for them. They were able to break from his controlling hand by his own doing and start a fresh new future.
Mike always talks about the last few years and feeling distant from the members in the band. After 20+ years of Mike they may feel his departure was a refreshing that energized and propelled the band forward with joy and fully energized for many years to come. 
Mike misplayed his hand badly and it cost him his bread and butter. Some gambles don’t go the way you think they will. Seriously…how couldn't  Dream Theater not be happier with MM than they were with MP over the last few years.
Dream Theater going on with a new drummer may have saved the band from disbanding sooner.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:41:42 AM by Tick »
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Offline 425

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Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
« Reply #106 on: June 30, 2014, 11:38:46 AM »

    [/li][li]Mike Portnoy was wrong to jump to conclusions about James LaBrie's statements to the press. As a corollary, Mike Portnoy admitted his mistake and apologized appropriately.[/li][/list]


    No he didn't.  He apologized for believing the out of context headline (from a website he always says never to believe) which is akin to a non-apology.

    Not if that was his only sin. If his actions (which were: saying that JLB was being "insensitive" and "disrespectful" to MP) would have been appropriate if the content of the headline was in the context it suggested, the appropriate thing to apologize for is acting on the basis of the out-of-context headline, not for just acting in general. The biggest mistake that I think I can agree MP made in that particular episode was believing the Blabbermouth headline in the first place without digging deeper, which I think we can agree was not a good decision, but I think you can't condemn MP too harshly on the sole basis of that.

    This all to say nothing of the fact that there's no way that MP and JLB didn't both move past the Blabbermouth headline altercation years and years ago.
    And if spirit's a sign,
    Then it's only a matter of time

    Offline KevShmev

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    Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
    « Reply #107 on: June 30, 2014, 11:58:57 AM »
    all I know is that I prefer Mike's live drumming to Mangini's... Also overall drum parts.

    Mike has way more energy.

    With that said, the two albums with Mangini are some of their best.

    Hey man, long time no see!! :)

    I decided to try this thread with baked ziti and a salad. It pairs well with both.

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    Offline Madman Shepherd

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    Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
    « Reply #108 on: June 30, 2014, 12:09:48 PM »

      [/li][li]Mike Portnoy was wrong to jump to conclusions about James LaBrie's statements to the press. As a corollary, Mike Portnoy admitted his mistake and apologized appropriately.[/li][/list]


      No he didn't.  He apologized for believing the out of context headline (from a website he always says never to believe) which is akin to a non-apology.

      Not if that was his only sin. If his actions (which were: saying that JLB was being "insensitive" and "disrespectful" to MP) would have been appropriate if the content of the headline was in the context it suggested, the appropriate thing to apologize for is acting on the basis of the out-of-context headline, not for just acting in general. The biggest mistake that I think I can agree MP made in that particular episode was believing the Blabbermouth headline in the first place without digging deeper, which I think we can agree was not a good decision, but I think you can't condemn MP too harshly on the sole basis of that.

      This all to say nothing of the fact that there's no way that MP and JLB didn't both move past the Blabbermouth headline altercation years and years ago.

      ...and Mike deleted threads about JLB on his message board and "liked" facebook comments that said LaBrie was a horrible vocalist and sang off pitch and then claimed "I have the right to like whatever I want on facebook" without apologizing for "liking" shitty comments or deleted JLB threads. 

      So yeah, I'm sure JLB moved past that whole thing.  He is still the vocalist in DT afterall. 

      Offline Xenon

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #109 on: June 30, 2014, 12:18:45 PM »
      Lol, 4 pages in one day. The power of trolling  ;D

      Portnoy pls cum back... to indonesia

      Offline Tom Bombadil

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #110 on: June 30, 2014, 12:26:28 PM »
      I knew clicking on this would be a mistake...

      Offline 425

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #111 on: June 30, 2014, 12:33:32 PM »
      ...and Mike deleted threads about JLB on his message board and "liked" facebook comments that said LaBrie was a horrible vocalist and sang off pitch and then claimed "I have the right to like whatever I want on facebook" without apologizing for "liking" shitty comments or deleted JLB threads. 

      7. Mike Portnoy was wrong to, in the years preceding the breakup, make negative comments about the singing of James LaBrie to the press and in public fora.

      Okay?

      I'm not defending him on that one. That was wrong, and it was rude, and he shouldn't have done it.
      And if spirit's a sign,
      Then it's only a matter of time

      Offline Dublagent66

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #112 on: June 30, 2014, 12:38:37 PM »
      Yeah, this subject has been debated and discussed within an inch of its life many times before.  Can't believe I made it NB4 lock.  Give it up for noob power.  :justjen
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      Offline Zook

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #113 on: June 30, 2014, 12:48:08 PM »
      Me and LaBrie both know that Portnoy was the soul of the band, was the frontman, was the MAN! It's like he took away custody of his child. Dream Theater was Mike Portnoy's band...

      NO

      Offline Madman Shepherd

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #114 on: June 30, 2014, 12:52:10 PM »
      ...and Mike deleted threads about JLB on his message board and "liked" facebook comments that said LaBrie was a horrible vocalist and sang off pitch and then claimed "I have the right to like whatever I want on facebook" without apologizing for "liking" shitty comments or deleted JLB threads. 

      7. Mike Portnoy was wrong to, in the years preceding the breakup, make negative comments about the singing of James LaBrie to the press and in public fora.

      Okay?

      I'm not defending him on that one. That was wrong, and it was rude, and he shouldn't have done it.

      My point was he never apologized for those.

      Offline 425

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #115 on: June 30, 2014, 01:04:35 PM »
      And that's a fair point, one that is implicit in my list of truths. I'm not here trying to make the case of "MP never did anything wrong." I was just trying to say "can we all agree at least on x, y and z?" This is because I'm seeing a lot of conjecture and a lot of vitriol in these types of discussions.
      And if spirit's a sign,
      Then it's only a matter of time

      Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #116 on: June 30, 2014, 01:18:29 PM »
      The thing I always find humorous is when people suggest that it was inconsiderate or foolish of the other four members of DT to not repsect Mike's wishes for a hiatus. The person making that argument never seems to understand that those four guys have families to feed and bills to pay like everyone else.  A hiatus as long as MP may or may not have wanted could easily have been difficult for any of those guys to manage financially, by sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, waiting for MP to be ready again.

      Offline noahl

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #117 on: June 30, 2014, 01:27:30 PM »
      The thing I always find humorous is when people suggest that it was inconsiderate or foolish of the other four members of DT to not repsect Mike's wishes for a hiatus. The person making that argument never seems to understand that those four guys have families to feed and bills to pay like everyone else.  A hiatus as long as MP may or may not have wanted could easily have been difficult for any of those guys to manage financially, by sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, waiting for MP to be ready again.

      What I find humorous is the fact that you think you know that. You do not know their finances.

      They ALL SAID in a documentary that they were extremely financially stable...

      Know the facts

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #118 on: June 30, 2014, 01:31:39 PM »
       :facepalm: :lol
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      Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #119 on: June 30, 2014, 01:33:07 PM »
      The thing I always find humorous is when people suggest that it was inconsiderate or foolish of the other four members of DT to not repsect Mike's wishes for a hiatus. The person making that argument never seems to understand that those four guys have families to feed and bills to pay like everyone else.  A hiatus as long as MP may or may not have wanted could easily have been difficult for any of those guys to manage financially, by sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, waiting for MP to be ready again.

      What I find humorous is the fact that you think you know that. You do not know their finances.

      They ALL SAID in a documentary that they were extremely financially stable...

      Know the facts

      It also isn't the first time that anybody has suggested that a hiatus could be financially difficult for the other members.  Have your boss suggest a two month hiatus for you and see how it works out.

      Also, reading comprehension, please.  I clearly said "could easily have been difficult".  Not "would 100% without any doubt have been financially devastating".

      Offline commanderbob

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #120 on: June 30, 2014, 01:39:37 PM »
      This is an exquisite, absolutely divine act of trolling.  Well done.  Seriously.  It's like someone went to the fat camp with a bullhorn and yelled "FREE PIZZA!"

      Offline noahl

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #121 on: June 30, 2014, 01:43:50 PM »
      The thing I always find humorous is when people suggest that it was inconsiderate or foolish of the other four members of DT to not repsect Mike's wishes for a hiatus. The person making that argument never seems to understand that those four guys have families to feed and bills to pay like everyone else.  A hiatus as long as MP may or may not have wanted could easily have been difficult for any of those guys to manage financially, by sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, waiting for MP to be ready again.

      What I find humorous is the fact that you think you know that. You do not know their finances.

      They ALL SAID in a documentary that they were extremely financially stable...

      Know the facts

      It also isn't the first time that anybody has suggested that a hiatus could be financially difficult for the other members.  Have your boss suggest a two month hiatus for you and see how it works out.

      Also, reading comprehension, please.  I clearly said "could easily have been difficult".  Not "would 100% without any doubt have been financially devastating".

      I understand- I can read...
      They make money 24/7...they're well-off, I'll tell you that much.

      Offline 425

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #122 on: June 30, 2014, 01:48:11 PM »
      Almost everyone who we would consider "financially stable," with the exception of the few super-rich, is financial stable only dependent on their ability to have a good source of income. Unless you have millions in the bank, which I can assure you guys like JLB and JMX don't, you're going to have to change your lifestyle a considerable amount if you basically quit your job for five years.
      And if spirit's a sign,
      Then it's only a matter of time

      Offline senecadawg2

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #123 on: June 30, 2014, 01:48:23 PM »
      Well as one of my first posts I learned most of the other DT fans hate debate

       :eek
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      Offline Madman Shepherd

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #124 on: June 30, 2014, 01:53:14 PM »
      :facepalm: :lol

      My thoughts/actions exactly

      While we are spouting facts...

      Dream Theater did say they were one of the top 20 most financially stable bands in the last 37 years (somewhere between Aerosmith and KC & the Sunshine Band).  It is mentioned in this interview (I can't find where though) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

      Offline TheSilentHam

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #125 on: June 30, 2014, 02:10:17 PM »
      Well as one of my first posts I learned most of the other DT fans hate debate, and hate other opinions if they're different then others :rollin rookie mistake..haha.

      You couldn't be more wrong about this....  there are many, many forum members who just love debate. You will be hard pressed to find two regular posters who share that same opinion about everything DT-related.  One of the longest-lasting and most popular threads is the one titled "Your Controversial Opinions on DT".  I don't know how you can inject your posts (including the quote above) with so much unsupported and presumptuous hyperbole, and then turn around and blame others for the response you have received thus far.

      Offline hefdaddy42

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #126 on: June 30, 2014, 02:13:01 PM »
      WTF @ this thread

      We love debate here at DTF.  We also love class.

      There is plenty of room here for all opinions.  What matters is how you discuss them.

      Show respect for your fellow members, even if you disagree with their POV.
      Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

      Offline TAC

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #127 on: June 30, 2014, 02:36:49 PM »

      I am not a troll. I made all 24 posts last night. 

       :lol
      would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
      Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
      TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

      Offline Grizz

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #128 on: June 30, 2014, 02:39:31 PM »
      There is plenty of room here for all opinions.  What matters is how you discuss them.

      Show respect for your fellow members, even if you disagree with their POV.
      You must be new here. It's not as bad as /g/, but c'mon.
      "I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

      Offline jingle.boy

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #129 on: June 30, 2014, 02:41:32 PM »
      WTF @ this thread

      We love debate here at DTF.  We also love class.

      There is plenty of room here for all opinions.  What matters is how you discuss them.

      Show respect for your fellow members, even if you disagree with their POV.

      You know hef, I blame you.  This guy came in here solely to pimp his radio show, and you told him to stick around and be an active member.

      :evilmonkey:
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      Offline hefdaddy42

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #130 on: June 30, 2014, 02:43:29 PM »
      Oh, was that him?

       :lol

      Well, he listened!
      Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #131 on: June 30, 2014, 03:07:03 PM »
      I see our DTF stenographer Chad looked through the notes.
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      Offline TheGreatPretender

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #132 on: June 30, 2014, 03:40:18 PM »
      " He was a drummer from the past. " Just like you should be a singer of the past? Sorry, you're DT's singer, and I love what you do, but no, he was not a drummer from the past. He's the heart of Dream Theater, and he pretends he doesn't care but he truly does. He care's about that band more than each and every one of the band members, and these projects like TWD are just rebounds to fill the whole of his 25 year old daughter.

      I disagree with this. At some point, yes, he WAS the heart of DT. But look at the circumstances, if MP cared so much about DT, more than EACH AND EVERY one of the band members, then he wouldn't have left. It's as simple as that. He's the one who said it was getting stale. He's the one who said it was time for a five year break. And he was right to leave, because if he stayed, he wouldn't have been happy. His heart wasn't in it. And if his heart wasn't in it, then how could he possibly be the "heart" of the band?
      Yes, he did a lot for the band, and took on a ridiculous amount of responsibilities, but hey, if he was getting burnt out on that, he could've just left it there, and said, "Hey, guys, do you mind maybe picking up the slack in this and this department?" But no, he said flat out, they should stop. And when they said they didn't want to, he gave them an ultimatum. It's understandable that he'd be tired and exhausted and feel a bit stagnant in DT. It's normal. But the other guys, they were still excited and fired up, and they acknowledged DT as being their life, their bread and butter, and aside from their casual side projects, they didn't feel the need to go join other bands on tours and collaborate with 100 other people.
      I just don't see how you can say that he cared more about it than they did. He was more protective of it, maybe, but that's not the same thing.
      Sure, he started regretting it later, and asked to come back, but that just proves that he was taking DT for granted.
      "How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

      Offline Grizz

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #133 on: June 30, 2014, 04:20:15 PM »
      As someone who loves MM's personality and technical ability, who loved the two shows that he (as in I) went to, who didn't become a fan until summer of 2008 (the cocky era), but is not a huge fan of ADToE or DTXII, it does seem to me that, personality-wise, MM fits in with the band better.

      However, I wish that Portnoy was in the band. I liked his drumming, his songs, his ass and balls, his lack of a click track, his spontaneity, his connection with the fans, etc. Much as I want it to happen, I don't see him coming back unless MM makes a well-timed departure. Clearly that's not going to happen for at least a little while, as MM and the guys are quite comfortable ATM. Even if that wasn't the case now would not be the time for MP to rejoin, as it seems that he did something to hurt JLB and JP.

      At the moment, everyone (barring us DT w/ MP fans) seems quite happy with the status quo.
      "I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

      Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #134 on: June 30, 2014, 04:30:04 PM »
      Me and LaBrie both know that Portnoy was the soul of the band, was the frontman, was the MAN! It's like he took away custody of his child. Dream Theater was Mike Portnoy's band
      lol

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      Offline MoraWintersoul

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #135 on: June 30, 2014, 04:42:07 PM »
        good god, again with the "custody of the child"... can we put a "content warning: marriage analogy" in every thread title that contains it so that I don't have to spit out my juice :lol


      [/li][li]Mike Portnoy was wrong to jump to conclusions about James LaBrie's statements to the press. As a corollary, Mike Portnoy admitted his mistake and apologized appropriately.[/li][/list]


      No he didn't.  He apologized for believing the out of context headline (from a website he always says never to believe) which is akin to a non-apology.
      To be honest, a lot of people don't know how to apologize and believe that non-apologies are good enough.
      And I always wondered how the fuck do we know who responded to his email and who didn't? Like, maybe JP didn't respond. Or maybe MM didn't respond because MP doesn't have his most recent email. Or whatever.

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      Offline 425

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #136 on: June 30, 2014, 05:52:43 PM »
      Well, that's why I only established what we pretty much know to be true. James has been pretty forthcoming, as I recall, that he has not been in touch with MP. Meanwhile, fairly recently Jordan and Mike both posted to social media pictures of the two of them together as friends. So I'm almost certain that James didn't and Jordan did. As to the other two, I agree with the general consensus that it's most likely JP and MM, but we don't really have any information pointing to that aside from MM and MP were good friends and JMX had a diminished role in the band that increased after MP left, which is all just circumstantial.
      And if spirit's a sign,
      Then it's only a matter of time

      Offline Jaq

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #137 on: June 30, 2014, 06:36:59 PM »
      The troll is strong with this thread  :rollin
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      Offline Grizz

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #138 on: June 30, 2014, 07:11:37 PM »
      I don't think there's any trolling here.
      "I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

      Offline MoraWintersoul

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      Re: Mike Mangini and Portnoy --The Fight that wont stop.
      « Reply #139 on: June 30, 2014, 08:05:48 PM »
      Well, that's why I only established what we pretty much know to be true. James has been pretty forthcoming, as I recall, that he has not been in touch with MP. Meanwhile, fairly recently Jordan and Mike both posted to social media pictures of the two of them together as friends. So I'm almost certain that James didn't and Jordan did.
      Yeah, but sometimes the logical answer isn't the right one. Maybe James thought some of what MP said were jokes that didn't go over too well - back when MP was saying that they should have hired another vocalist, they were communicating through more than just interviews, and James totes knows more about the context of that statement. Maybe he thought that the other actions (Facebook comments, the deleting of SI discussions) were just done in the heat of rage over being out from the band? Maybe he hasn't even heard of any of these things?

      Maybe JMX doesn't consider his diminished role in the band to be something effected by MP and something to be distant about, but just a natural ebb-and-flow?

      Maybe two of them are just that terrible at email? Believe me, it's possible to be terrible at email even if your career depends on networking  :lol and I think they're big enough that it doesn't.

      All I'm saying is that there are so many possible narratives, and the DTF party line is simplified to just one or two, about everything.

      Quote
      Don't try to BS her about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.

      type : mora : and delete the spaces for a surprise