Author Topic: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".  (Read 1072 times)

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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Offline FreezingPoint

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 05:30:45 PM »
Looking for thoughts? Or just putting this out there?
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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 02:07:37 AM »
A little of both. I've asked for thoughts on some stuff before, and didn't get any replies, so I figured there was no point in asking this time. hahaha. But sure. Anyone have any thoughts? Likes? Dislikes?
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Offline Nefarius

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 02:20:33 AM »
Technically impressive and a nice MP style drum riff intro, a more transparent mix would help to separate everything a little better. Other than that it didn't do anything for me. Extremely monotonous and repetitive, basically an endless Dm for most of the song with only very few changes breaking through. Boring and bland vocal lines. I started skipping and looking for some sort of variety after 1:30 and no matter where I jumped, it was pretty much more of the same, except for that little calm part and the bridge with the rhythmic shouting. In one ear, out the other, no effect, sorry.

Greetings...
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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 01:38:29 PM »
Hmmm, I see. Well, that's a bit disappointing, but thanks for your feedback. Maybe you'll enjoy some of our other stuff once we put a few more demos out!
Check out the latest concept album “III: The Sparrow & The Architect”, released under my project The Circle of Wonders:

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Offline FreezingPoint

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 02:49:18 PM »
Yeah I know, this forum is not as active as I think it should be. Sometimes stuff doesn't get the attention that it deserves. I remember seeing on some different forum someplace (I don't remember where, sorry) that if you wanted to post a song for listening or critique, you would have to comment on someone else's song. Thought that made some sense.

Anyway, I hope this will be constructive criticism for you. I listened to the song in full once yesterday and once again right now.

The opening riff is good, but not good enough to anchor the song. Really, it is a 2 bar phrase with only slight variation, yet it comprises much of the song. That isn't to say that it shouldn't be used, but find ways to make it more interesting. Maybe when it comes back, don't have it doubled have it panned on one side while the other guitar(s) do something a bit different. Or maybe palm mute it sometimes with a different, maybe double time drum pattern on the toms. This would make the riff be the same, but sound different yet keep a sense of intensity.

Overall, the rhythm instruments need to be tighter. Everything: drums, bass and guitar. It's noticeable especially in verse section where where they are playing all those upbeats. Those just need to be perfect for maximum effect. Remember, especially for the guitars and the bass, that it is not just the starts of the notes that need to be perfectly in sync, but the endings as well. If you guys aren't ending together it will also not feel as tight as it needs to be. Going into 4:38 really needs to be together and have some good punch to it. That's the big ending of the song and it has to say so from the start.

The vocals are fine, but again they tire after a certain point, until that harsh section comes in about halfway through. Not too sure about the vocal sound/effects going on there. There is no obvious vocal doubling or tripling (I think I may have heard some) and the song could really benefit from it, helping to emphasize the important phrases, create harmony. When doubling vocal parts, ultilize the stereo field. Move the doubled parts away from the center by a margin to give greater width and depth. At parts like 0:54 - it would be more interesting if vocal line, especially the ending word, "Leader" was held out longer. Again at the 4:38 mark. Hold out the ends of phrases throughout the song - makes it more soaring and more interesting and more powerful. Sometimes I feel like the vocals are rushing to complete a phrase and get on to the next phrase. Let the phrase complete. Record the vocal part in phrases according to the lyrics if need be and get them right on.

And again with the bass - it needs to be interesting and it needs to be heard. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. It needs to be consistent. I find bass sounds to be very tough. Enough definition without being bright, and enough low end without being boomy. I really like the rhythm guitar sound. It has plenty of meat to it. That's great. Be sure to low cut EQ the guitars so they don't get in the way of the bass. No real reason for the guitars to be putting out frequencies way low anyway. Make sure it doesn't compromise your tone though. The bass guitar is there to provide that low end anchor for the guitars when following the same line, which it seems to be through much of the song. Don't be afraid of putting a bass fill in there between phrases or having the bass do something interesting. I heard it doing something different a couple of times - good. It makes a big difference.

The drums could be punchier with the style you are going for. In the very first fill, it would be better if the toms were panned more drastically. The snare could be sharper and brought up into the mix (that could be personal preference though - I like my snares sharp and loud). The kick drum is kind of in this no man's land sonically. I hear the punch of the kick, but not a lot of low end meat to it. It is good that you avoided boominess, but but it needs both the high end punch and that low and mid meat. If you are having problems with your kick and bass guitar competing and are sure you have everything EQ-wise pretty good, try side chain compressing the bass guitar. It will lower the bass guitar for the attack of the kick, allowing the punch to come through so the bass does not cover it up. Don't go crazy with it though, this isn't trance music.

There is a lot of good stuff going on around the 3:00 mark, but it doesn't stand on its own necessarily. A combination of interesting riffs that flow together nicely. But it is just dying for some sort of lead part to give it direction and purpose. It doesn't have to be throughout the whole section, but it would certainly liven up that part. Any lead part is actually not utilized until 5:00 into the song, which in my opinion is way to late in this type of song progressive or metal.

The last thing is that it really isn't that progressive, and reminds me much more of a straight-up metal song. The only instrumentation change comes at 4:18, and it doesn't last that long. Throughout the rest of the song it basically just the same in terms of instrumentation - no synths, keys, or different sounding guitars. As far as I can tell it stays in 4/4 the entire song at around 102 or 103(?) bpm with no tempo changes. Structurally, it isn't standard, but it isn't different enough to warrant enough attention.

The guitar playing is great though, I hear a lot of talent there - and it should be used through the song, which is why I was surprised there were so few lead guitar parts.

Overall, there is a lot of good things happening here, a lot of potential. I laid out the rest above. Hopefully I didn't come off as too harsh. You may know a lot of the things I enumerated above already, but I tired to be as helpful as I could.

Good luck with the band!


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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2014, 01:28:51 AM »
Thanks so much for the lengthy response. Lots of good points made there. Most of what you said about the vocals and the rushed lines are definitely things that I noticed right away. I've been talking to our singer about that kind of stuff and he's aware that a change has to be made. Keep in mind this is just a demo - we didn't record the drums to a click track, and most of each instrument (vocals included) was done in one or two takes because of time restraints., so that's definitely the reason for it not sounding as tight as it should be. And although the song itself isn't exactly a progfest, the band has a progressive approach to writing music - when the whole album is finished, you'll definitely hear the diversity between tracks. This song is just meant to have a straight up metal approach to kinda even out the sounds of the rest of the tracks (some of which, are pretty proggy). But thanks again for the helpful and lengthy suggestions and opinions. It's definitely appreciated.
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Offline FreezingPoint

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2014, 01:21:49 PM »
Thanks.

For sure, a click would help a great deal. Actually for not drumming to a click I think you guys did a pretty good job of keeping on top of things, much better than I have heard some bands do.

Yes, that is one thing that I neglected to mention because a more metal styled song in terms of fitting into an album could change the feel and dynamic somewhat of what is heard, especially in what order something is heard.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Full band demo of our song "Follow The Leader".
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 08:32:24 AM »
Hey There:


I gave it a full listen.  I find myself nodding my head in agreement while reading FreezingPoint's excellent post above.  There ARE doubled vocals on at least some of this song, maybe even all of it.  It's a great way to give your vocals more body and a bigger sound, but I'd advise caution when tracking them.  There are quite a few spots in this demo where one or both of the vocal tracks are either a little bit off on the timing or missed the correct pitch by enough to be noticeable. 


I think the song could use some trimming.  The first half of the song, as mentioned above, becomes a little bit monotonous after a while, and I admit that I was very tempted to skip ahead, that's never a good sign.


So, I'd say find a way to make that opening riff a little more catchy or something, and if you're going to repeat it for that much time you will want to add some variations.  That can be achieved with either tempo, meter, chord progressions and riffs. 


One last thing about "making the riffs more interesting"    Making something more interesting does not always equate to an ADDITION of something and can, in fact, sometimes be achieved by simplifying something.


Good luck!