Author Topic: More shootings...are the media creating more?  (Read 23879 times)

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2014, 09:20:07 AM »
How many mass shootings till Obama gets his gun control?

Everytime one happens he does something about gun control. Why is he so driven about gun control?
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2014, 09:56:56 AM »
I dunno, maybe we should think about spending $1000/kiddo on improving the quality of their education so they're actually worth a fuck, than on a halfassed attempt at insuring they're not part of the .001% that get shot by disgruntled students. Or possibly trying to fix one of the countless things far more likely to kill your student than a student run amok. How about trying to keep kids from shooting themselves, which is far, far more likely than them shooting somebody else. Seems like a better investment to me.

Christ I hate knee-jerk reactions and the exploitation of parental dread and terror.
Keep in mind...a father feels different than someone without children. Just sayin...
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2014, 09:58:02 AM »
How many mass shootings till Obama gets his gun control?

Everytime one happens he does something about gun control. Why is he so driven about gun control?
I guess for me its...define gun control?
What is the answer?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2014, 10:25:22 AM »
Keep in mind...a father feels different than someone without children. Just sayin...
Yeah, we've already been over this, amigo, and as you're no doubt aware I'll say he feels more emotionally and less rationally about things. There are upsides and downsides to both, but in this situation you'd be better off going the rational route. Not likely, I know.

I guess for me its...define gun control?
What is the answer?
Correct. What measure of "gun control" would have prevented whichever shooting we're currently talking about?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2014, 11:08:26 AM »
I dunno, maybe we should think about spending $1000/kiddo on improving the quality of their education so they're actually worth a fuck, than on a halfassed attempt at insuring they're not part of the .001% that get shot by disgruntled students. Or possibly trying to fix one of the countless things far more likely to kill your student than a student run amok. How about trying to keep kids from shooting themselves, which is far, far more likely than them shooting somebody else. Seems like a better investment to me.

Christ I hate knee-jerk reactions and the exploitation of parental dread and terror.
Keep in mind...a father feels different than someone without children. Just sayin...
I'm not sure where the objectionable part for a father is in the post that you quoted.
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2014, 11:52:06 AM »
I dunno, maybe we should think about spending $1000/kiddo on improving the quality of their education so they're actually worth a fuck, than on a halfassed attempt at insuring they're not part of the .001% that get shot by disgruntled students. Or possibly trying to fix one of the countless things far more likely to kill your student than a student run amok. How about trying to keep kids from shooting themselves, which is far, far more likely than them shooting somebody else. Seems like a better investment to me.

Christ I hate knee-jerk reactions and the exploitation of parental dread and terror.
Keep in mind...a father feels different than someone without children. Just sayin...
I'm not sure where the objectionable part for a father is in the post that you quoted.
Yeah I confused my self by not reading closely enough. I thought we were talking about not spending so kids can have those bullet proof thingies.

Don't mind me... :facepalm:
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2014, 01:17:47 PM »
On those shields...are kids supposed to wear them all day? I don't think the gunman's going to call to say...
 "Hey kids, time to put on yer fun time bullet shields I'm on my way!"
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Offline Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2014, 01:21:59 PM »
I think the plan would be to just have 30 or so in each room. When a lockdown is ordered, all the children grab one. I'm envisioning something similar to the 'get under your desk drill' they used to do when my dad was a kid. Thinking about it... why not just make bullet proof desks the children can hide under? A cold, heavy, bullet proof desk to remind the children for six hours a day that they could die at any moment.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2014, 02:43:33 PM »
Hey, have they even bothered putting seat belts in school buses yet, or is that still too expensive?
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2014, 03:00:38 PM »
Hey, have they even bothered putting seat belts in school buses yet, or is that still too expensive?
Too expensive, AFAIK.
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Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2014, 03:08:05 PM »
Nah my niece's school district has belts on their buses apparently.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2014, 03:28:05 PM »
Whelp, looks like the NHTSA has sound reasons for advising against seatbelts in school-buses, so I withdraw my sarcastic indignation. (Thousand dollar bullet proof blankets are still fucking stupid, though.)
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2014, 03:41:40 PM »
Whelp, looks like the NHTSA has sound reasons for advising against seatbelts in school-buses, so I withdraw my sarcastic indignation. (Thousand dollar bullet proof blankets are still fucking stupid, though.)
Its a mute point. Its not going to happen
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Offline bosk1

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2014, 04:07:51 PM »
Whelp, looks like the NHTSA has sound reasons for advising against seatbelts in school-buses, so I withdraw my sarcastic indignation. (Thousand dollar bullet proof blankets are still fucking stupid, though.)
Its a mute point. Its not going to happen
Well, yes, because points don't have any tongues.  But more importantly, it is a moot point as well.
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2014, 04:38:04 PM »
Whelp, looks like the NHTSA has sound reasons for advising against seatbelts in school-buses, so I withdraw my sarcastic indignation. (Thousand dollar bullet proof blankets are still fucking stupid, though.)
Its a mute point. Its not going to happen
Well, yes, because points don't have any tongues.  But more importantly, it is a moot point as well.
Omg :facepalm: I'm so intelligent its scary!
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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2014, 04:37:01 PM »
I will look for it when I have more time, but there was an article, I want to say in the Hartford Courant, might have been the NY Daily News, not long after the Sandy Hook shootings that indicated that mass shootings are no more prevalent now than over the past century.  The peak was actually in the 20's if I recall, with small rises in the '60's and '90's. 

It's about coverage, and the glut of shows that capitalize on the aftermath, and the increased politicization of the events.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2015, 04:05:00 PM »
Damn. Looks like it's been nearly a year since we had a shooting to prompt another round of "guns are icky" discussion. Maybe they weren't becoming more commonplace after all.

In any event, after this asshole murders a lot of black folk attending church the government declares it a possible hate crime. I'm looking at some comments and a lot of people on the FOX page are blasting the whole hate crime thing. "He's a murderer, not a hate criminal." I happen to agree with this sentiment, actually. Hate crime designations seem silly to me. At the same time, it seems to me like the same people over at FOX's site blasting the liberal agenda of looking at hate crimes differently from the crimes they actually commit are the exact same people who hold their indignation in check until they find out if some other asshole murderer is a Moslem or not so they know whether or not to treat it with disdain or fucking fury because it's terrorism. If this guy is just an asshole murderer and that's the only thing we should be stringing him up for, then why doesn't that apply to Atta or Maj. Hassan? They both commit mass murder and yet their motivations determine the degree of outrage they get subjected to. Pick one of the other, it seems. Either their motivation matters in the final equation or it doesn't.

Even setting aside the American obliteration of the definition of terrorism/terrorist, it seems pretty silly to get pissed off about the whole hate crime thing while treating terrorists as far worse than typical mass murderers or spree killers.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2015, 07:07:43 PM »
Flipping around the dial watching the coverage of it, you can say what you want about Fox News and Megyn Kelly, but mad props to her for making it a policy to not identify killers like this by name or to show their face.  The rest of the media needs to follow suit.  Disgusting pieces of filth like this do not deserve the notoriety they often seek.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2015, 07:27:42 PM »
,
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 05:26:09 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2015, 07:38:44 PM »
Hasan wasn't organized. Neither were those knuckleheads in Garland. None of the guys the FBI routinely entraps to protect us from their own plots are organized enough to even buy rudimentary equipment. To the extent that their actions are used to link back to other like-minded individuals, why shouldn't the same thing be said of white supremacists types?

And I'm not arguing with you, really. This is just something that occurred to me, but since I've always been annoyed by how pussies and fear mongers have distorted the T word, this just strikes me as an interesting parallel.
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Offline Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2015, 06:26:59 AM »

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2015, 07:43:04 AM »
 :tup
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2015, 07:44:20 AM »
im currently in The Netherlands and was watching Sky News.  Every story about a murder was in the US.  It''s really sad.  The same news stories are being shown here and there aren't mass killings out here like there is in the USA. 

Offline PuffyPat

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2015, 08:59:30 AM »
terrorism doesn't have to be a large group of people who plan out everything with great detail. it can be just one person who decides that they want to go and shoot up a church.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2015, 09:21:42 AM »
terrorism doesn't have to be a large group of people who plan out everything with great detail. it can be just one person who decides that they want to go and shoot up a church.
But it does have to be a part of a larger campaign. That's the whole point. Promoting an agenda by scaring the populace shitless.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2015, 12:44:36 PM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.

I'm inclined to agree that cops are asserting way too much authority here, and people are oblivious to what's going on. That doesn't change the fact that he put himself into the situation he's in.

And seriously, felony warrant service for a failure to appear on a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge? That's one seriously fucked up department and I'd be pissed off about it too. However, that's becoming the norm in this country. They're just lucky they didn't have wii controllers in their hands.

But don't oversimplify it; it's an excuse.  It's the law.  Whether it is just or not isn't the point.  It's the law.  There are a lot of laws that I think are as silly (or sillier) than pot charges, but I don't get to break them (or worse, shoot someone) because I disagree with them. 

And actually, as one might think about this as an argument to legalize weed, I would argue it is exactly why these people are in jail.  They don't give a shit about the law.   Whether it's "dealing weed on the side" or shooting someone because they got a raw deal.  To me, the thought process is the exact same, even if the severity of trigger isn't. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2015, 12:56:13 PM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.

I'm inclined to agree that cops are asserting way too much authority here, and people are oblivious to what's going on. That doesn't change the fact that he put himself into the situation he's in.

And seriously, felony warrant service for a failure to appear on a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge? That's one seriously fucked up department and I'd be pissed off about it too. However, that's becoming the norm in this country. They're just lucky they didn't have wii controllers in their hands.

But don't oversimplify it; it's an excuse.  It's the law.  Whether it is just or not isn't the point.  It's the law.  There are a lot of laws that I think are as silly (or sillier) than pot charges, but I don't get to break them (or worse, shoot someone) because I disagree with them. 

And actually, as one might think about this as an argument to legalize weed, I would argue it is exactly why these people are in jail.  They don't give a shit about the law.   Whether it's "dealing weed on the side" or shooting someone because they got a raw deal.  To me, the thought process is the exact same, even if the severity of trigger isn't.
Damn, son! I had to go back and read an article from 2012 to find out what you were quoting me about.  :lol

As I said, he brought it on himself. Nothing to debate there.

However, it was a different person involved in the misdemeanor paraphernalia bust. If you want to say that he brought it on himself by having a pipe on him, well alright. My point was that sending militarized cops to kick down his door at 0-dark thirty is not the way we should be allowing things to happen in this country. Frankly, it's bullshit and anybody who thinks that's acceptable behavior for collecting on administrative infractions (it was the failure to appear, not the pipe at that point) is probably living in the wrong country.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2015, 12:58:53 PM »
l
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 05:26:23 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2015, 01:15:27 PM »
j
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 05:26:50 PM by Calvin6s »
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2015, 12:02:02 PM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.

I'm inclined to agree that cops are asserting way too much authority here, and people are oblivious to what's going on. That doesn't change the fact that he put himself into the situation he's in.

And seriously, felony warrant service for a failure to appear on a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge? That's one seriously fucked up department and I'd be pissed off about it too. However, that's becoming the norm in this country. They're just lucky they didn't have wii controllers in their hands.

But don't oversimplify it; it's an excuse.  It's the law.  Whether it is just or not isn't the point.  It's the law.  There are a lot of laws that I think are as silly (or sillier) than pot charges, but I don't get to break them (or worse, shoot someone) because I disagree with them. 

And actually, as one might think about this as an argument to legalize weed, I would argue it is exactly why these people are in jail.  They don't give a shit about the law.   Whether it's "dealing weed on the side" or shooting someone because they got a raw deal.  To me, the thought process is the exact same, even if the severity of trigger isn't.
Damn, son! I had to go back and read an article from 2012 to find out what you were quoting me about.  :lol

As I said, he brought it on himself. Nothing to debate there.

However, it was a different person involved in the misdemeanor paraphernalia bust. If you want to say that he brought it on himself by having a pipe on him, well alright. My point was that sending militarized cops to kick down his door at 0-dark thirty is not the way we should be allowing things to happen in this country. Frankly, it's bullshit and anybody who thinks that's acceptable behavior for collecting on administrative infractions (it was the failure to appear, not the pipe at that point) is probably living in the wrong country.

I don't dispute that last part; and I don't think that acceptable behavior.  Administrative issues should be handled administratively.

But - and I'm not talking cause and effect, I'm talking correlation here - isn't the problem the same?  On both sides?   The cops deal with an admin issue with action and force, and these shooters are (often) doing the same.   I'm not sure where this starts, but - and I think we'll agree on this - it should end where it can most readily, and that is with government.  I don't suspect that these shooters are smart (sane?) enough to get with the program, but at least if the government (here, read: police, but also mental health professionals) start being more disciplined in separating the administrative from the... non-administrative, we'd at least have something to point to as a model. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2015, 12:29:33 PM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.

I'm inclined to agree that cops are asserting way too much authority here, and people are oblivious to what's going on. That doesn't change the fact that he put himself into the situation he's in.

And seriously, felony warrant service for a failure to appear on a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge? That's one seriously fucked up department and I'd be pissed off about it too. However, that's becoming the norm in this country. They're just lucky they didn't have wii controllers in their hands.

But don't oversimplify it; it's an excuse.  It's the law.  Whether it is just or not isn't the point.  It's the law.  There are a lot of laws that I think are as silly (or sillier) than pot charges, but I don't get to break them (or worse, shoot someone) because I disagree with them. 

And actually, as one might think about this as an argument to legalize weed, I would argue it is exactly why these people are in jail.  They don't give a shit about the law.   Whether it's "dealing weed on the side" or shooting someone because they got a raw deal.  To me, the thought process is the exact same, even if the severity of trigger isn't.
Damn, son! I had to go back and read an article from 2012 to find out what you were quoting me about.  :lol

As I said, he brought it on himself. Nothing to debate there.

However, it was a different person involved in the misdemeanor paraphernalia bust. If you want to say that he brought it on himself by having a pipe on him, well alright. My point was that sending militarized cops to kick down his door at 0-dark thirty is not the way we should be allowing things to happen in this country. Frankly, it's bullshit and anybody who thinks that's acceptable behavior for collecting on administrative infractions (it was the failure to appear, not the pipe at that point) is probably living in the wrong country.

I don't dispute that last part; and I don't think that acceptable behavior.  Administrative issues should be handled administratively.

But - and I'm not talking cause and effect, I'm talking correlation here - isn't the problem the same?  On both sides?   The cops deal with an admin issue with action and force, and these shooters are (often) doing the same.   I'm not sure where this starts, but - and I think we'll agree on this - it should end where it can most readily, and that is with government.  I don't suspect that these shooters are smart (sane?) enough to get with the program, but at least if the government (here, read: police, but also mental health professionals) start being more disciplined in separating the administrative from the... non-administrative, we'd at least have something to point to as a model.
Sorry, but I'm not seeing the correlation. We're talking about shooters and we're talking about a doper who didn't pay his ticket. The latter is treated the same as the former. Cops have to be able to use some discretion to sort out who the dangerous ones are and who the nobodys are. There's a reason when you and I get a speeding ticket we don't get the full felony stop treatment. There's no basis to conclude that we're going to shoot Johnny in the face as he approaches the car. Not sure why the guy who didn't pay the ticket on his grass pipe is any different.

And frankly, I'd say that treating him as such greatly increases the risk to both Johnny and the doper and his family. I doubt they cared much about the latter, but the former is precisely why they [ostensibly] decided to take the militaristic approach in the first place.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2015, 08:14:22 PM »
I think we're actually saying something similar.  I agree they shouldn't be handled in the same way, and while I don't think the doper is acting out SOLELY in retaliation for the cops' behavior (I think some of it goes the other way, too), that doesn't make it right.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2015, 03:14:18 PM »
Since this was the most recent of the numerous "guns are icky" threads in DTF I figure I'd follow up on this here.

OK.

BTW, I have zero interest in banning guns.  However, I see no valid reason not to have tighter gun control laws than we currently have on the books.

For the record, I'm with you.  I had my license for a long time (let it expire when I moved out of state).  I don't mind scrutiny that is well-thought out and would be effective at weeding out the Dylann Whatevers and Adam Lanzas of the world.  I just don't want hurdles that result in an effective ban or a precursor to a ban.

I'm with you both 100%.  I carry (legally licensed and trained) daily, and I believe in the right to carry if a person so chooses... I also think that more stringent controls wouldn't hurt anyone that wishes to LEGALLY carry.  When I purchased my main carry firearm, I was in-and-out of the store in 10-minutes; no kidding.  The automatic state police background check system that is in place took 30-seconds I'd say... a more in-depth screening process wouldn't bother me in the slightest. 

I'll be honest about something that does bother me about Virginia's laws regarding firearms... Virginia is an open-carry state.  That boggles my mind... if you're going to carry, why not take the time (either 4-hour on-line class and one day of course training or a live class including both), pay the fee, and obtain a conceal-carry license?  Why carry open?  For myself, I don't want anyone to know that I carry.  I don't see it often, but when I do see it I wonder why someone would want to open carry when it is relatively easy to obtain a conceal-carry permit.

And I guess this goes back to the original point of the thread... if Virginia were to attempt to eliminate open-carry, I'd bet that I'd see a whole lot more open carry and holster sales would go through the roof.
Open vs. concealed carry interests me. Texas has just passed open carry (concealed has been around since Hennard became a dissatisfied Luby's customer). I can kind of see the logic, but I honestly think that letting everybody know who does and does not carry is a dodgy idea. In the end there's something to be said for being part of the anonymous 5%. With that in mind I suppose that allowing both makes some sense. In this case they both require the same course and permit so it really just becomes personal preference.

On a personal note, despite being a gun owner myself, I'm not thrilled about the idea of Texas looking like Dodge City. I kind of prefer not noticing when people are packing.

The Virginia thing is odd to me. Why one should require a permit/classes and not the other doesn't make much sense.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2015, 03:18:39 PM »
h
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 05:27:10 PM by Calvin6s »
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2015, 03:12:43 PM »
In the end there's something to be said for being part of the anonymous 5%.

On a personal note, despite being a gun owner myself, I'm not thrilled about the idea of Texas looking like Dodge City. I kind of prefer not noticing when people are packing.

I've had my CCW for...jeez....8 years now....and I'm fairly honest in P/R about my stance on gun ownership. But, for the life of me I can't see the benefit of open Carrying a gun. I didn't get my permit to be 'cool' or as a status symbol....it's to protect me and my family from any clown who thinks it's a good idea to threaten our lives.

IMO Open carry is nothing more than being a cocky, antagonistic A hole. Just because you 'can' do something doesn't mean you 'should'. If you're standing in line at a gas station wearing your nice shiny Colt .45 for everyone to see and someone comes in to rob it....guess who they are shooting first? The dude wearing a gun. I prefer no one to know that I am carrying a weapon....hence the 'conceal' part of the carry.

Not trying to offend any of you if you open carry but c'mon.....especially now days, all that does is stir up sh%t that doesn't need to be stirred.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind