Author Topic: More shootings...are the media creating more?  (Read 47576 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1190 on: November 16, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »
So what's your reasonable solution? You bitch about nothing getting done, which isn't wrong, but you also bitch when people explain why it's not getting done or what the problems are. You say nobody's advocating disarmament. Fine. What are you advocating for that's possible, reasonable, and productive?

I don't have the answers, and frankly, as a Canadian citizen, I just don't understand the US gun culture enough to offer anything meaningful.  I fully recognize that bans or taking them away will never happen.  I have no idea how to undo what's been done over decades/centuries.  Thankfully, Canada hasn't gotten itself into such a situation.  Executing reasonable restrictions on things like bump stocks (the most fresh topic), or the mentally ill (ongoing topic) would be a start.  My issue I suppose is that you (the US) never start anything.

I'm mostly just sad at the situation... the victims... the lack of willingness to do something by those that DO understand the gun culture and issues, and who should be the ones responsible for finding a solution.

Why would you assume it's a gun culture?   Why not any of the other things that have evolved into the American fabric over the past 20 years.

There is one data point - with no indication at all of "cause", "effect", "correlation", or "coincidence" - that says this is a "gun culture" issue, other than guns are often (not always) being used, and that is the sheer number of guns.   But that data point is highly one dimensional.   It doesn't reflect, for example, that the high number of guns is increasingly in the hands of fewer and fewer people.  It also doesn't reflect the dynamic nature of gun ownership versus the actual crimes we're talking about.    This "mass shooting" phenomenon is largely a product of the 21st century.  Yet we had guns - in large quantities - before that.   As I said, almost every stat used to articulate that this is a "gun problem" is a static one.   We need to look at the changes over time of both the number, frequency, and severity of mass casualty events.   Overlay that other evolving variables and assess a correlation.   We'll get this, we'll figure it out, but - to your point about "inaction" - if there's any "inaction", it's in not even bothering to understand the phenomena before we start implementing "solutions", "common sense" or otherwise.

You and I are probably in much closer agreement on the "we're not doing enough!" subject than this seems; where we differ is how we define "do something".  You seem - and I don't want to put words in your mouth here - to think that "doing something" only involves the guns themselves.   Much like the person that is (or was) addicted to Oxy decides to try heroin because of the difficulty in getting Oxy (Google it; it's the rage up here in CT and what many feel is the cause of the spike in heroin-related deaths here), if we don't assess that need to kill, it's going to only be a matter of time before the guns are replaced by something else instead. 

We don't "do anything" because we're not willing to look past the next election, and we're not willing - that is to say, before Trump - to tell the party platform to go fuck itself.   The right is entrenched with the ideological support of guns, ala the NRA, and the left is entrenched with the idea of "GUN CULTURE" and so we go nowhere.  I negotiate for a living, and the first thing I do prior to a discussion is draw a circle with my acceptable outcomes, and a circle with what I perceive as the possible acceptable outcomes for my opponent.   If those circles do not overlap, I don't bother with the actual negotiation, and I try an alternative method.  If they do overlap, I only really concentrate on the place of the overlap, because that's the only place that common ground can be found.  I'm not really interested in bad deals that force the other party to accept something they don't want or can't live with, because as soon as the leverage tables turn (and they ALWAYS turn) I'm pretty much screwed.   
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 12:20:55 PM by Stadler »

Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1191 on: November 16, 2017, 12:26:39 PM »

I was reading yesterday that FPS Russia no longer makes videos because he's had his license taken away. He received a felony drug conviction for having too much cannabis oil on him.
Yeah, just read about that a few minutes ago. Sounds pretty damned suspicious to me, honestly. Though I honestly don't know why The Man would have it out for the guy. Insofar as gun nuts go he honestly seemed pretty harmless in the big picture.

I thought he had already stopped, though, about a year and a half ago?

Offline Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1192 on: November 16, 2017, 12:33:09 PM »

I was reading yesterday that FPS Russia no longer makes videos because he's had his license taken away. He received a felony drug conviction for having too much cannabis oil on him.
Yeah, just read about that a few minutes ago. Sounds pretty damned suspicious to me, honestly. Though I honestly don't know why The Man would have it out for the guy. Insofar as gun nuts go he honestly seemed pretty harmless in the big picture.

I thought he had already stopped, though, about a year and a half ago?

He stopped for a good length of time in 2013 when his producer was found dead with a bullet wound to the head. He then came back and made a handful a videos over a long period of time. I haven't seen anything new in at least a year and a half. Shame. He had a great channel, even though it did start going downhill once sponsors had to get involved and he felt the need for every video to contain tannerite.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1193 on: November 16, 2017, 12:35:04 PM »

I was reading yesterday that FPS Russia no longer makes videos because he's had his license taken away. He received a felony drug conviction for having too much cannabis oil on him.
Yeah, just read about that a few minutes ago. Sounds pretty damned suspicious to me, honestly. Though I honestly don't know why The Man would have it out for the guy. Insofar as gun nuts go he honestly seemed pretty harmless in the big picture.

I thought he had already stopped, though, about a year and a half ago?

He stopped for a good length of time in 2013 when his producer was found dead with a bullet wound to the head. He then came back and made a handful a videos over a long period of time. I haven't seen anything new in at least a year and a half. Shame. He had a great channel, even though it did start going downhill once sponsors had to get involved and he felt the need for every video to contain tannerite.
Yeah, this. And he also started to work his celebrity quite a bit. The last video I saw was him, some special guests, and a lot of hot chicks. That was a shame, but I guess I can't blame him.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1194 on: November 16, 2017, 04:32:06 PM »
1.  What makes you say NOTHING is being done?

2.  What is it that you would like to see done?

Regarding #2, as I said, I don't understand the culture well enough to offer meaningful options.

Regarding #1... arrogance, or lack of awareness, or whatever... i say 'nothing' has been done as A) I simply don't know what has been done - let's say since Sandy Hook, since that seems to be the most shocking mass shooting event of modern times.  And B) whatever has been done doesn't seem to be working.

I pose the question back to anyone ... what HAS been done?  Or perhaps more importantly, what has been done to successfully slow down the quantity and frequency of mass shooting events? 
Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?
And TAC can suck it  :biggrin:, this is heavy in all the right places.  :tup

Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1195 on: November 16, 2017, 09:33:25 PM »
1.  What makes you say NOTHING is being done?

2.  What is it that you would like to see done?

Regarding #2, as I said, I don't understand the culture well enough to offer meaningful options.

Regarding #1... arrogance, or lack of awareness, or whatever... i say 'nothing' has been done as A) I simply don't know what has been done - let's say since Sandy Hook, since that seems to be the most shocking mass shooting event of modern times.  And B) whatever has been done doesn't seem to be working.

I pose the question back to anyone ... what HAS been done?  Or perhaps more importantly, what has been done to successfully slow down the quantity and frequency of mass shooting events?

Not the right things, that's for sure.  No argument there.   But we're not even having the conversation.    The dialogue is basically:

One side:  We need to do something.
Other side: Okay, how about "common sense", "reasonable" gun control (READ:  let's ban shit)
One side:  No.   How about addressing mental health?  (READ: I'm not sure WHAT they mean)
Other side:  No. 
Both sides: This seems like a lot of work.   TRUMP! RUSSIA! TWITTER! 

I forget who it was - might have been el Barto, might have been Dave, maybe even me - had it right:  this forces us to confront OURSELVES, and we, Americans, are pretty damn shitty at that.  It's always the other guy.   It's the Liberals.  The deplorables.   The immigrants.   I fully believe that right now, in this context, we are incapable of really, honestly addressing the problem without some outside help.   

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1196 on: November 17, 2017, 06:37:37 AM »
Both sides: This seems like a lot of work.   TRUMP! RUSSIA! TWITTER!  HER EMAILS!!!

Fix'

I agree with pretty much all of that Stads (and have said before) we are more alike than unalike - even on this topic.
Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?
And TAC can suck it  :biggrin:, this is heavy in all the right places.  :tup

Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1197 on: November 17, 2017, 06:56:09 AM »
Both sides: This seems like a lot of work.   TRUMP! RUSSIA! TWITTER!  HER EMAILS!!!

Fix'

I agree with pretty much all of that Stads (and have said before) we are more alike than unalike - even on this topic.

No argument with the fix; I wasn't trying to imply that it's one sided or that one side is worse.   It might manifest differently, but both sides are pretty comfortable with finger pointing.   And it's not limited to politics.    How many threads have we had here about how bad our bosses are?   How many times have you heard some entry level, or low level worker say "they (it's always 'they') are a bunch of idiots.  I'd have this company running like a Swiss watch if they'd only listen to me"   Listen dude, they're into making money; if you were actually right, they WOULD be listening to you.    I'm not poor because I'm lazy and/or stupid, it's the MAN holding me down.  WALL STREET!   I'm not addicted because I made bad decisions with a bottle of Oxy, it's BIG PHARMA pushing their shit on me!   Look at the music threads here; it's not that my tastes changed, or that I've grown out of something, it's that once they started using keyboards, they started to suck!    Or they lost it with The Elder!    Or Mangini has no feel!   

None of this is to imply that it's all black and white, either.    By way of example, maybe Pharma DOES have some culpability.   Maybe Gene and Pauil HAVE lost their desire to be the hottest band in the world.   

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1198 on: November 17, 2017, 08:17:41 AM »
Off topic, but pharma has major culpability. There are tobacco execs that would be appalled at some of their tactics.

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Offline Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1199 on: January 24, 2018, 01:27:29 PM »
The shooting yesterday was a weird one. More info is starting to come out. Apparently the kid who did the shooting was severely bullied on the reg. From what I've read from people who go to the school, the kid's father died the day before he shot up the school, and he was getting picked on because he posted a video of himself on Snapshot crying about it.

I really don't know how to feel about this one. Completely torn. Obviously the kid is unstable and needs to be put away for some time, but as a fat dude who was mercilessly picked on as a kid, I get it, and to a degree I can sympathize. Kids today have it even worse. I don't know what I'd do if social media was a thing when I was 12-15 years old. My saving grace was that as soon as I got off the bus, I was in the clear for the next 15 hours. It doesn't even sound like the kid put up a fight or was looking for suicide by cop. From what I gather, they got him under control with almost no force/effort.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1200 on: January 24, 2018, 01:41:36 PM »
I don't know what I'd do if social media was a thing when I was 12-15 years old.

You and I both. I was a freakin little dick vandal and asshole. Not only do I think I'd have gotten in trouble for posting some of the dumb crap I did to whatever social media site.....I absolutely hate to admit this but if I'm being honest it's true.....I'd probably would have been one of the D-Bag losers who would have cyber bullied others. I had major self esteem issues (due to being unable to understand how to cope with molestation) and from being bullied myself....so in turn I picked on and tore down whoever I could to make myself feel better and I'm sure I'd have used a cyber option if it were there.

Obviously the kid is unstable and needs to be put away for some time, but as a fat dude who was mercilessly picked on as a kid, I get it, and to a degree I can sympathize.

I wasn't picked on for being fat....Mine was for being small. I am 5'-6" on a good day now, but until 8th grade when I hit my growth spurt if you want to call it that....I was 4' something forever and tiny. I don't think there's a short joke I haven't heard or a bully I didn't have to physically fight to defend myself two or three times a week. I can sympathize as well to a point....but at no time during any of the bullying I withstood did I consider murdering someone.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1201 on: January 24, 2018, 01:49:01 PM »
I was bullied incessantly through elementary school and junior high, right up til high school. Badly. Straight up got my ass kicked or even worse emotionally fucked with for years because of all the mocking and ostracizing. There was one instance where my supposed longtime friends at the time (basically guys I knew my whole life) turned their backs on me and made a joke of me throughout the entire middle school. And that middle school is ruthless, the kids at that age are worse than the high schoolers in some ways. Jokes about being fat and loving to eat (even though I was a bit chubby - very much a gamer and computer nerd - I was FAR from fat). If social media had been around then - this was only a couple years before Myspace took off - I don't know what I would have done.

So, to an extent, I can absolutely sympathize with people who are bullied to the point of just snapping. I really can. I admit I had some pretty heinous thoughts throughout my childhood because of how badly I wanted to make them hurt worse than they hurt me. Now I never came close to acting on it or even vocalizing those thoughts, but I can't begin to imagine how I'd handle the same scenarios if you threw Facebook in the mix and having people snapchat fights and conflicts all over the place.

World's a messed up place. I don't know how you even begin to counter bullying, especially these days.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1202 on: January 24, 2018, 01:51:20 PM »
The shooting yesterday was a weird one. More info is starting to come out. Apparently the kid who did the shooting was severely bullied on the reg. From what I've read from people who go to the school, the kid's father died the day before he shot up the school, and he was getting picked on because he posted a video of himself on Snapshot crying about it.

I really don't know how to feel about this one. Completely torn. Obviously the kid is unstable and needs to be put away for some time, but as a fat dude who was mercilessly picked on as a kid, I get it, and to a degree I can sympathize. Kids today have it even worse. I don't know what I'd do if social media was a thing when I was 12-15 years old. My saving grace was that as soon as I got off the bus, I was in the clear for the next 15 hours. It doesn't even sound like the kid put up a fight or was looking for suicide by cop. From what I gather, they got him under control with almost no force/effort.
That's a damn shame. Did he shoot the people who were fucking with him, or did he shoot whoever he could? One is pretty understandable, and far short of the loser that shoots random folk.


I wasn't picked on for being fat....Mine was for being small. I am 5'-6" on a good day now, but until 8th grade when I hit my growth spurt if you want to call it that....I was 4' something forever and tiny. I don't think there's a short joke I haven't heard or a bully I didn't have to physically fight to defend myself two or three times a week. I can sympathize as well to a point....but at no time during any of the bullying I withstood did I consider murdering someone.
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Offline Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1203 on: January 24, 2018, 01:57:14 PM »
The shooting yesterday was a weird one. More info is starting to come out. Apparently the kid who did the shooting was severely bullied on the reg. From what I've read from people who go to the school, the kid's father died the day before he shot up the school, and he was getting picked on because he posted a video of himself on Snapshot crying about it.

I really don't know how to feel about this one. Completely torn. Obviously the kid is unstable and needs to be put away for some time, but as a fat dude who was mercilessly picked on as a kid, I get it, and to a degree I can sympathize. Kids today have it even worse. I don't know what I'd do if social media was a thing when I was 12-15 years old. My saving grace was that as soon as I got off the bus, I was in the clear for the next 15 hours. It doesn't even sound like the kid put up a fight or was looking for suicide by cop. From what I gather, they got him under control with almost no force/effort.
That's a damn shame. Did he shoot the people who were fucking with him, or did he shoot whoever he could? One is pretty understandable, and far short of the loser that shoots random folk.


I wasn't picked on for being fat....Mine was for being small. I am 5'-6" on a good day now, but until 8th grade when I hit my growth spurt if you want to call it that....I was 4' something forever and tiny. I don't think there's a short joke I haven't heard or a bully I didn't have to physically fight to defend myself two or three times a week. I can sympathize as well to a point....but at no time during any of the bullying I withstood did I consider murdering someone.
Every person has their breaking point.

I have no clue about the people he shot being the same as those who bullied him. Seeing as he hit 15 or so kids, I'm going to guess he just went in there spraying.

I reached my breaking point once. I snapped and started choking the kid that used to bully me the hardest. It started off okay. I remember smashing the back of his head into a coat hook as I choked him, but he eventually found his strength and managed to kick the living shit out of me.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1204 on: January 24, 2018, 02:04:15 PM »
The shooting yesterday was a weird one. More info is starting to come out. Apparently the kid who did the shooting was severely bullied on the reg. From what I've read from people who go to the school, the kid's father died the day before he shot up the school, and he was getting picked on because he posted a video of himself on Snapshot crying about it.

I really don't know how to feel about this one. Completely torn. Obviously the kid is unstable and needs to be put away for some time, but as a fat dude who was mercilessly picked on as a kid, I get it, and to a degree I can sympathize. Kids today have it even worse. I don't know what I'd do if social media was a thing when I was 12-15 years old. My saving grace was that as soon as I got off the bus, I was in the clear for the next 15 hours. It doesn't even sound like the kid put up a fight or was looking for suicide by cop. From what I gather, they got him under control with almost no force/effort.
That's a damn shame. Did he shoot the people who were fucking with him, or did he shoot whoever he could? One is pretty understandable, and far short of the loser that shoots random folk.


I wasn't picked on for being fat....Mine was for being small. I am 5'-6" on a good day now, but until 8th grade when I hit my growth spurt if you want to call it that....I was 4' something forever and tiny. I don't think there's a short joke I haven't heard or a bully I didn't have to physically fight to defend myself two or three times a week. I can sympathize as well to a point....but at no time during any of the bullying I withstood did I consider murdering someone.
Every person has their breaking point.

I have no clue about the people he shot being the same as those who bullied him. Seeing as he hit 15 or so kids, I'm going to guess he just went in there spraying.

I reached my breaking point once. I snapped and started choking the kid that used to bully me the hardest. It started off okay. I remember smashing the back of his head into a coat hook as I choked him, but he eventually found his strength and managed to kick the living shit out of me.

As I mentioned....I literally had a physical altercation at minimum once a week....most times more than that. So, looking back on it I think that may have been a good 'release' of any frustration I guess? To where nothing built up per say....i just knew it was coming so any anger or whatever I held on to usually got released when I was fighting.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1205 on: January 25, 2018, 07:42:33 AM »
The shooting yesterday was a weird one. More info is starting to come out. Apparently the kid who did the shooting was severely bullied on the reg. From what I've read from people who go to the school, the kid's father died the day before he shot up the school, and he was getting picked on because he posted a video of himself on Snapshot crying about it.

I really don't know how to feel about this one. Completely torn. Obviously the kid is unstable and needs to be put away for some time, but as a fat dude who was mercilessly picked on as a kid, I get it, and to a degree I can sympathize. Kids today have it even worse. I don't know what I'd do if social media was a thing when I was 12-15 years old. My saving grace was that as soon as I got off the bus, I was in the clear for the next 15 hours. It doesn't even sound like the kid put up a fight or was looking for suicide by cop. From what I gather, they got him under control with almost no force/effort.

Chino, no shit, I actually said this to my wife - as part of an unrelated discussion - this morning:  "I am so grateful I didn't have all this social media crap to deal with when I grew up."   


Offline kaos2900

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1206 on: January 26, 2018, 01:55:49 PM »
What I don't understand about social media is that it's not forced on anyone. Me and my wife are not a single social media platorm (I do have a linked in for work but I don't check it.) I did my fair share of ribbing in high school and also received some bullying, but nothing to the levels that some kids go through. I know lots of stories, primarily with girls, that are just brutal and they don't involve social media. Why don't these people just stay off of social media if it gets so bad? Also, why did this kid go random? Not condoning this, but it would have a been a different story if he went and popped the primary asshole giving him grief and laid down waiting for the cops rather than killing too presumably innocent kids. Bullying is and will always be part of growing up and I firmly believe it's up to the parents to help their kids deal with it.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1207 on: January 26, 2018, 02:07:28 PM »
You don't have kids, do you?

Your last sentence is 100% spot on though... but by "it" I mean social platforms and technology - not just bullying.

And I'll echo the sentiments that I'm terrified of what social platforms is doing to the mental health of kids.
Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1208 on: January 26, 2018, 02:14:51 PM »
What I don't understand about social media is that it's not forced on anyone. Me and my wife are not a single social media platorm (I do have a linked in for work but I don't check it.) I did my fair share of ribbing in high school and also received some bullying, but nothing to the levels that some kids go through. I know lots of stories, primarily with girls, that are just brutal and they don't involve social media. Why don't these people just stay off of social media if it gets so bad? Also, why did this kid go random? Not condoning this, but it would have a been a different story if he went and popped the primary asshole giving him grief and laid down waiting for the cops rather than killing too presumably innocent kids. Bullying is and will always be part of growing up and I firmly believe it's up to the parents to help their kids deal with it.

My parents helped me deal with bullying, but they were never bullied themselves. There's only so much other people can do. It's not something you can really understand unless you have been in the same position. Bullying fucking sucks. There are some mean ass bullies out there, and I dealt with them constantly.

As for the question, "Why don't these people just stay off of social media if it gets so bad?" Social media has multiple uses. But it's very hard, once entrenched, to remove oneself from social media. It is the primary method of contact for most young people these days. Hell, I'm 27, and I almost never text anyone anymore, it's all Facebook and Facebook Messenger. I can't get rid of my Facebook (without it being a monumental hassle) because that's how I can reach so many different people at once. Phone numbers and texts are for very close friends and family only nowadays, plus, people are always getting new phones so constantly juggling numbers is yet another hassle. For young kids... forget about it. Texts are probably ancient history to them, it's all about Instagram ('the gram' as the kids call it), Snapchat, and Facebook.

It's a whole different age - kids are extremely tribal and again it's hard for most people (the younger the more difficult, it seems) to remove themselves from a large social circle like that.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1209 on: January 26, 2018, 02:23:20 PM »
Social media has multiple uses. But it's very hard, once entrenched, to remove oneself from social media. It is the primary method of contact for most young people these days.

So much this.  I think it's easier to never join social media than to stop once you are on.  It's very addicting, besides the practical uses (connecting with your friends, which was the initial point of social media), just scrolling through my feed wether it be facebook, instagram, or twitter (I refuse to get a snapchat) has become such a habit, that it's really hard to stop.  It's become so much more than what it was initially intended to be.  That is also worrisome for other reasons beyond bullying.

Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1210 on: January 26, 2018, 02:41:25 PM »
You don't have kids, do you?

Your last sentence is 100% spot on though... but by "it" I mean social platforms and technology - not just bullying.

And I'll echo the sentiments that I'm terrified of what social platforms is doing to the mental health of kids.

Chad's right.  I want NOTHING to do with social media.  I'm on Twitter and have Instagram and Snapchat accounts, but no Facebook.   I can only NOT be on Facebook because  people I trust around me ARE on Facebook. That's kind of a cheat.  I don't at all think it's good, but I'm surprised on the daily by how much the kids these days rely on these services even for simple, day to day conversations.

When I was 16?  I called up my friend John and Larry to go swim/ride BMX bikes/play music.   35 years later I can STILL remember John's phone number.   No shit.   We'll be sitting on the couch watching a movie, and my daughter will just get up and walk out the door, get in her car and go, and there was never a word said.  No phone call, nothing.   Later, I'll find out that there was a "Story" on Snapchat (do I have that right?) or someone put something on their "Facebook Wall" (do I have that right) and that's that.    I defy you to ask a kid at that age to disconnect and risk socially ostracizing themselves.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1211 on: January 26, 2018, 02:42:17 PM »
With a 6 year old and a 4 month old, I am hoping that this FaceTwittGram mentality goes away by the time they hit high school. But then I am also afraid that whatever fills the void left behind will be worse.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1212 on: January 26, 2018, 02:45:55 PM »
When I was 16?  I called up my friend John and Larry to go swim/ride BMX bikes/play music.   35 years later I can STILL remember John's phone number.   No shit.   We'll be sitting on the couch watching a movie, and my daughter will just get up and walk out the door, get in her car and go, and there was never a word said.  No phone call, nothing.   Later, I'll find out that there was a "Story" on Snapchat (do I have that right?) or someone put something on their "Facebook Wall" (do I have that right) and that's that.    I defy you to ask a kid at that age to disconnect and risk socially ostracizing themselves.

To compare, my friends often joke about being able to remember each others AOL 95 screen names (mine was cramx3 so that's easy cause I use it on social media too, but none of my friends still use those names).  I only have two phone numbers memorized now, my own and my mothers cell.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1213 on: January 26, 2018, 02:50:10 PM »
I defy you to ask a kid at that age to disconnect and risk socially ostracizing themselves.

That's really the crux of it. Social media and the internet are so ingrained in youth culture now, if you aren't there, you really will miss out on a lot of stuff, which really sucks.

With a 6 year old and a 4 month old, I am hoping that this FaceTwittGram mentality goes away by the time they hit high school. But then I am also afraid that whatever fills the void left behind will be worse.

As much as I'm hoping for that, there's no way they'll be gone. Don't get me wrong; I love the internet and how it's connected me to so many people. But now social media is run by HUGE companies and every feature they implement now is a way to get more eyes on ads and put more dollars in their pockets.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1214 on: January 26, 2018, 02:58:10 PM »
When I was 16?  I called up my friend John and Larry to go swim/ride BMX bikes/play music.   35 years later I can STILL remember John's phone number.   No shit.   We'll be sitting on the couch watching a movie, and my daughter will just get up and walk out the door, get in her car and go, and there was never a word said.  No phone call, nothing.   Later, I'll find out that there was a "Story" on Snapchat (do I have that right?) or someone put something on their "Facebook Wall" (do I have that right) and that's that.    I defy you to ask a kid at that age to disconnect and risk socially ostracizing themselves.

To compare, my friends often joke about being able to remember each others AOL 95 screen names (mine was cramx3 so that's easy cause I use it on social media too, but none of my friends still use those names).  I only have two phone numbers memorized now, my own and my mothers cell.

:biggrin:  I hear ya.  But I'll go back even farther.  "Bosk1" is basically a derivation of something a high school friend and I came up with for putting in my high score on arcade games back in the day. 
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1215 on: January 27, 2018, 06:06:46 AM »
For better or worse, there is no going back.  We are now in an era where everyone born in the last 15 years, and going forward are digital natives.  Brains have been wired - literally... look up articles on how use of technology affects brain development - differently.  Our (grand) parents generation would have said similar things ... that they didn't have the phone to connect with people, that they had to physically go outside to connect with their friends.  It's evolution.

For better or worse.

The only difference is that the rate of change is increasing and far more rapid than previous generations experienced.
Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?
And TAC can suck it  :biggrin:, this is heavy in all the right places.  :tup

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1216 on: January 29, 2018, 09:54:57 AM »
And we're dealing, increasingly, with force multipliers.    Not a dig on pot - I'm all for legalization - but my stepdaughter indulges, and her defense is "Seth Rogan!  Dr. Dre!"  And while I don't argue with her, I'm like "sure, but they didn't have cellphones and tablets ALSO rearranging their brain wiring.  We're in uncharted territory here!"

Deaf ears.   

It's partly why I'm so adamant against knee-jerk, feel-good, reactionary responses to the subject of the thread.  We don't know enough, and this will only compound the problem.  Not just to stop shootings, but as a general benefit for humanity, we NEED to understand what's happening to our brains.   

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1217 on: January 29, 2018, 10:08:03 AM »
And we're dealing, increasingly, with force multipliers.    Not a dig on pot - I'm all for legalization - but my stepdaughter indulges, and her defense is "Seth Rogan!  Dr. Dre!"  And while I don't argue with her, I'm like "sure, but they didn't have cellphones and tablets ALSO rearranging their brain wiring.  We're in uncharted territory here!"

Deaf ears.   

It's partly why I'm so adamant against knee-jerk, feel-good, reactionary responses to the subject of the thread.  We don't know enough, and this will only compound the problem.  Not just to stop shootings, but as a general benefit for humanity, we NEED to understand what's happening to our brains.

There's more wrong if your daughter looks to Seth Rogan or Dr Dre as people to use on a marijuana defense  :lol  Maybe Bill Gates is a better example.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1218 on: January 29, 2018, 10:14:50 AM »
And we're dealing, increasingly, with force multipliers.    Not a dig on pot - I'm all for legalization - but my stepdaughter indulges, and her defense is "Seth Rogan!  Dr. Dre!"  And while I don't argue with her, I'm like "sure, but they didn't have cellphones and tablets ALSO rearranging their brain wiring.  We're in uncharted territory here!"

Deaf ears.   

It's partly why I'm so adamant against knee-jerk, feel-good, reactionary responses to the subject of the thread.  We don't know enough, and this will only compound the problem.  Not just to stop shootings, but as a general benefit for humanity, we NEED to understand what's happening to our brains.

I think it's the uncertainty. Up until pretty recent day, there was little uncertainty in life. You moved around and you either found food or you died. While life might have been harder (hunting wooly mammoths, the Donner party, etc..), life was relatively certain. If you were a farmer, you knew you'd most likely be farming your whole life. If you came from a line of blacksmiths, your were probably working with metal. It might not have been a great living, but you know what your work was going to be. I think women have it especially hard TBH. I could be completely misjudging the time, but when a woman's role in society was watching the house and taking care of the kids, it was pretty straight forward. Now, in a relatively short period of time, they're not only wanting to be in the workforce, but almost have to. Raising a family becomes infinitely harder when both parents are out of the house 9+ hours a day.

Money is another big factor. The cost of living is rising so fast. My GF and I collective make about $115K a year and we're barely getting by some months. I still worry about finances all the time, and I've never not had food in my fridge. Being a young adult in today's world can't be easy. You see an extremely volatile job market, and few jobs that can really get you ahead in life. It's stressful, depressing, and disheartening. You used to be able to get out of highschool and know that you could find a job that'd keep your family fed and provide a pension. Even on mine and V's salaries, which aren't bad given our age, the idea of introducing a child into our budget seems impossible at this point. It really sucks. I never met one grandfather, and the other dies when I was 11. My parents aren't getting any younger. It bums me out.

So I guess what I'm trying to say, is I can totally understand why the youth of today feel nervous about the future and maybe overreact to certain situations.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1219 on: January 29, 2018, 12:06:54 PM »
And we're dealing, increasingly, with force multipliers.    Not a dig on pot - I'm all for legalization - but my stepdaughter indulges, and her defense is "Seth Rogan!  Dr. Dre!"  And while I don't argue with her, I'm like "sure, but they didn't have cellphones and tablets ALSO rearranging their brain wiring.  We're in uncharted territory here!"

Deaf ears.   

It's partly why I'm so adamant against knee-jerk, feel-good, reactionary responses to the subject of the thread.  We don't know enough, and this will only compound the problem.  Not just to stop shootings, but as a general benefit for humanity, we NEED to understand what's happening to our brains.

I think it's the uncertainty. Up until pretty recent day, there was little uncertainty in life. You moved around and you either found food or you died. While life might have been harder (hunting wooly mammoths, the Donner party, etc..), life was relatively certain. If you were a farmer, you knew you'd most likely be farming your whole life. If you came from a line of blacksmiths, your were probably working with metal. It might not have been a great living, but you know what your work was going to be. I think women have it especially hard TBH. I could be completely misjudging the time, but when a woman's role in society was watching the house and taking care of the kids, it was pretty straight forward. Now, in a relatively short period of time, they're not only wanting to be in the workforce, but almost have to. Raising a family becomes infinitely harder when both parents are out of the house 9+ hours a day.

Money is another big factor. The cost of living is rising so fast. My GF and I collective make about $115K a year and we're barely getting by some months. I still worry about finances all the time, and I've never not had food in my fridge. Being a young adult in today's world can't be easy. You see an extremely volatile job market, and few jobs that can really get you ahead in life. It's stressful, depressing, and disheartening. You used to be able to get out of highschool and know that you could find a job that'd keep your family fed and provide a pension. Even on mine and V's salaries, which aren't bad given our age, the idea of introducing a child into our budget seems impossible at this point. It really sucks. I never met one grandfather, and the other dies when I was 11. My parents aren't getting any younger. It bums me out.

So I guess what I'm trying to say, is I can totally understand why the youth of today feel nervous about the future and maybe overreact to certain situations.
That's a damn fine point. How many of us really knew what we wanted to be when we were children and actually guess right? Fuck, I still don't know what I want to be.

I've always been fascinated by the nature of change. I suppose Burke instilled that in me. What we're seeing is not only change happening at the fastest level humanity's seen, but the pace continues to increase at a rate also unseen. In the past change would come in spurts and humanity would adapt over time, generally before the next plow, bow, or printing press came along. Now change is a constant and humanity is having to adapt on the fly. It's outpacing our ability to adapt. I honestly have no idea how things will level out, or if they ever will. One thing I don't see is development slowing down and allowing us to catch up with the new reality, barring something massive that takes priority over bigger TVs, faster cars, and longer lasting wood.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1220 on: January 29, 2018, 12:53:40 PM »
But going back to the stone age from Chino's post, can't we also argue all of this has been happening as well?  Progressing more and more and more quickly.  We've seemed to have been able (as humans) to make this work all these years.  Do we eventually meet a breaking point for our bodies/minds?  Maybe, but I am not ready to say we are there yet, but it does make me feel "Survival of the fittest" that the people who can't handle and adapt to our quickly ever changing lives are the ones who don't pass on their genes.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1221 on: January 29, 2018, 12:57:18 PM »
But going back to the stone age from Chino's post, can't we also argue all of this has been happening as well?  Progressing more and more and more quickly.  We've seemed to have been able (as humans) to make this work all these years.  Do we eventually meet a breaking point for our bodies/minds?  Maybe, but I am not ready to say we are there yet, but it does make me feel "Survival of the fittest" that the people who can't handle and adapt to our quickly ever changing lives are the ones who don't pass on their genes.

I think that's what we're seeing now. We went millenia without seeing any major changes in society. There were people in the 1600s who lived an identical life to that of their ancestors 300 years earlier. I was reading recently that human brains today (in the developed world) have to process more information in a single day than someone in the 1500s did over the course of a lifetime.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1222 on: January 29, 2018, 01:24:55 PM »
But going back to the stone age from Chino's post, can't we also argue all of this has been happening as well?  Progressing more and more and more quickly.  We've seemed to have been able (as humans) to make this work all these years.  Do we eventually meet a breaking point for our bodies/minds?  Maybe, but I am not ready to say we are there yet, but it does make me feel "Survival of the fittest" that the people who can't handle and adapt to our quickly ever changing lives are the ones who don't pass on their genes.

I think that's what we're seeing now. We went millenia without seeing any major changes in society. There were people in the 1600s who lived an identical life to that of their ancestors 300 years earlier. I was reading recently that human brains today (in the developed world) have to process more information in a single day than someone in the 1500s did over the course of a lifetime.
There have been fundamental changes to society occurring all throughout history. YOu cited 1300-1600. During that time the printing press was perfected and people were exposed to the world outside their own limited boundaries. Laypersons learned to read as a result. The peasant farmer learned better techniques and practices to increase his yield. Government became broader in scope, reaching more people and codifying law. People could learn what nasty shit The Church was up to and protest, causing a fundamental shift in world religion. The changes go on and on, both in terms of society and to the individual who can now understand it. To this day I would call Johannes Gutenberg's press one of the key turning points in human history, and quite possible the most fundamentally important. To the point, I would call that 300 year stretch the first information age. The difference is that it happened over 3 centuries rather than 3 decades. People could adjust to the times before the next great turning point.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1223 on: January 29, 2018, 01:38:39 PM »
Good points, but to those minds back then, that probably seemed like a quick adjustment too I would think.  They could of made the same argument we are doing now.   I think the human mind is quite different now than it was then, our minds were already built to sustain mass change.  Now it's more rapid, true, but maybe we are already adjusted through years of our ancestors doing the same thing? Im just thinking aloud, I don't have kids to point at some anecdotal evidence or anything. 

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1224 on: January 29, 2018, 01:47:02 PM »
Good points, but to those minds back then, that probably seemed like a quick adjustment too I would think.  They could of made the same argument we are doing now.   I think the human mind is quite different now than it was then, our minds were already built to sustain mass change.  Now it's more rapid, true, but maybe we are already adjusted through years of our ancestors doing the same thing? Im just thinking aloud, I don't have kids to point at some anecdotal evidence or anything.
I don't know as it was a quick change. I suppose it was probably pretty similar to what we have now. The old folks didn't learn to read, but their children did. They learned how to till a field or cobble shoes from their pop, while integrating new methods learned from outside that they passed down, and so forth. Today change still happens generationally, your kid teaches you how to work your iPhone just as we taught our folks how to set their VCR clocks. There are just more changes coming more often, so eventually we all get left behind. Hell, I had to look up what the hell Discord was last night.  :lol
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