Author Topic: More shootings...are the media creating more?  (Read 32886 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1190 on: November 16, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »
So what's your reasonable solution? You bitch about nothing getting done, which isn't wrong, but you also bitch when people explain why it's not getting done or what the problems are. You say nobody's advocating disarmament. Fine. What are you advocating for that's possible, reasonable, and productive?

I don't have the answers, and frankly, as a Canadian citizen, I just don't understand the US gun culture enough to offer anything meaningful.  I fully recognize that bans or taking them away will never happen.  I have no idea how to undo what's been done over decades/centuries.  Thankfully, Canada hasn't gotten itself into such a situation.  Executing reasonable restrictions on things like bump stocks (the most fresh topic), or the mentally ill (ongoing topic) would be a start.  My issue I suppose is that you (the US) never start anything.

I'm mostly just sad at the situation... the victims... the lack of willingness to do something by those that DO understand the gun culture and issues, and who should be the ones responsible for finding a solution.

Why would you assume it's a gun culture?   Why not any of the other things that have evolved into the American fabric over the past 20 years.

There is one data point - with no indication at all of "cause", "effect", "correlation", or "coincidence" - that says this is a "gun culture" issue, other than guns are often (not always) being used, and that is the sheer number of guns.   But that data point is highly one dimensional.   It doesn't reflect, for example, that the high number of guns is increasingly in the hands of fewer and fewer people.  It also doesn't reflect the dynamic nature of gun ownership versus the actual crimes we're talking about.    This "mass shooting" phenomenon is largely a product of the 21st century.  Yet we had guns - in large quantities - before that.   As I said, almost every stat used to articulate that this is a "gun problem" is a static one.   We need to look at the changes over time of both the number, frequency, and severity of mass casualty events.   Overlay that other evolving variables and assess a correlation.   We'll get this, we'll figure it out, but - to your point about "inaction" - if there's any "inaction", it's in not even bothering to understand the phenomena before we start implementing "solutions", "common sense" or otherwise.

You and I are probably in much closer agreement on the "we're not doing enough!" subject than this seems; where we differ is how we define "do something".  You seem - and I don't want to put words in your mouth here - to think that "doing something" only involves the guns themselves.   Much like the person that is (or was) addicted to Oxy decides to try heroin because of the difficulty in getting Oxy (Google it; it's the rage up here in CT and what many feel is the cause of the spike in heroin-related deaths here), if we don't assess that need to kill, it's going to only be a matter of time before the guns are replaced by something else instead. 

We don't "do anything" because we're not willing to look past the next election, and we're not willing - that is to say, before Trump - to tell the party platform to go fuck itself.   The right is entrenched with the ideological support of guns, ala the NRA, and the left is entrenched with the idea of "GUN CULTURE" and so we go nowhere.  I negotiate for a living, and the first thing I do prior to a discussion is draw a circle with my acceptable outcomes, and a circle with what I perceive as the possible acceptable outcomes for my opponent.   If those circles do not overlap, I don't bother with the actual negotiation, and I try an alternative method.  If they do overlap, I only really concentrate on the place of the overlap, because that's the only place that common ground can be found.  I'm not really interested in bad deals that force the other party to accept something they don't want or can't live with, because as soon as the leverage tables turn (and they ALWAYS turn) I'm pretty much screwed.   
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 12:20:55 PM by Stadler »

Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1191 on: November 16, 2017, 12:26:39 PM »

I was reading yesterday that FPS Russia no longer makes videos because he's had his license taken away. He received a felony drug conviction for having too much cannabis oil on him.
Yeah, just read about that a few minutes ago. Sounds pretty damned suspicious to me, honestly. Though I honestly don't know why The Man would have it out for the guy. Insofar as gun nuts go he honestly seemed pretty harmless in the big picture.

I thought he had already stopped, though, about a year and a half ago?

Offline Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1192 on: November 16, 2017, 12:33:09 PM »

I was reading yesterday that FPS Russia no longer makes videos because he's had his license taken away. He received a felony drug conviction for having too much cannabis oil on him.
Yeah, just read about that a few minutes ago. Sounds pretty damned suspicious to me, honestly. Though I honestly don't know why The Man would have it out for the guy. Insofar as gun nuts go he honestly seemed pretty harmless in the big picture.

I thought he had already stopped, though, about a year and a half ago?

He stopped for a good length of time in 2013 when his producer was found dead with a bullet wound to the head. He then came back and made a handful a videos over a long period of time. I haven't seen anything new in at least a year and a half. Shame. He had a great channel, even though it did start going downhill once sponsors had to get involved and he felt the need for every video to contain tannerite.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1193 on: November 16, 2017, 12:35:04 PM »

I was reading yesterday that FPS Russia no longer makes videos because he's had his license taken away. He received a felony drug conviction for having too much cannabis oil on him.
Yeah, just read about that a few minutes ago. Sounds pretty damned suspicious to me, honestly. Though I honestly don't know why The Man would have it out for the guy. Insofar as gun nuts go he honestly seemed pretty harmless in the big picture.

I thought he had already stopped, though, about a year and a half ago?

He stopped for a good length of time in 2013 when his producer was found dead with a bullet wound to the head. He then came back and made a handful a videos over a long period of time. I haven't seen anything new in at least a year and a half. Shame. He had a great channel, even though it did start going downhill once sponsors had to get involved and he felt the need for every video to contain tannerite.
Yeah, this. And he also started to work his celebrity quite a bit. The last video I saw was him, some special guests, and a lot of hot chicks. That was a shame, but I guess I can't blame him.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1194 on: November 16, 2017, 04:32:06 PM »
1.  What makes you say NOTHING is being done?

2.  What is it that you would like to see done?

Regarding #2, as I said, I don't understand the culture well enough to offer meaningful options.

Regarding #1... arrogance, or lack of awareness, or whatever... i say 'nothing' has been done as A) I simply don't know what has been done - let's say since Sandy Hook, since that seems to be the most shocking mass shooting event of modern times.  And B) whatever has been done doesn't seem to be working.

I pose the question back to anyone ... what HAS been done?  Or perhaps more importantly, what has been done to successfully slow down the quantity and frequency of mass shooting events? 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1195 on: November 16, 2017, 09:33:25 PM »
1.  What makes you say NOTHING is being done?

2.  What is it that you would like to see done?

Regarding #2, as I said, I don't understand the culture well enough to offer meaningful options.

Regarding #1... arrogance, or lack of awareness, or whatever... i say 'nothing' has been done as A) I simply don't know what has been done - let's say since Sandy Hook, since that seems to be the most shocking mass shooting event of modern times.  And B) whatever has been done doesn't seem to be working.

I pose the question back to anyone ... what HAS been done?  Or perhaps more importantly, what has been done to successfully slow down the quantity and frequency of mass shooting events?

Not the right things, that's for sure.  No argument there.   But we're not even having the conversation.    The dialogue is basically:

One side:  We need to do something.
Other side: Okay, how about "common sense", "reasonable" gun control (READ:  let's ban shit)
One side:  No.   How about addressing mental health?  (READ: I'm not sure WHAT they mean)
Other side:  No. 
Both sides: This seems like a lot of work.   TRUMP! RUSSIA! TWITTER! 

I forget who it was - might have been el Barto, might have been Dave, maybe even me - had it right:  this forces us to confront OURSELVES, and we, Americans, are pretty damn shitty at that.  It's always the other guy.   It's the Liberals.  The deplorables.   The immigrants.   I fully believe that right now, in this context, we are incapable of really, honestly addressing the problem without some outside help.   

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1196 on: November 17, 2017, 06:37:37 AM »
Both sides: This seems like a lot of work.   TRUMP! RUSSIA! TWITTER!  HER EMAILS!!!

Fix'

I agree with pretty much all of that Stads (and have said before) we are more alike than unalike - even on this topic.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1197 on: November 17, 2017, 06:56:09 AM »
Both sides: This seems like a lot of work.   TRUMP! RUSSIA! TWITTER!  HER EMAILS!!!

Fix'

I agree with pretty much all of that Stads (and have said before) we are more alike than unalike - even on this topic.

No argument with the fix; I wasn't trying to imply that it's one sided or that one side is worse.   It might manifest differently, but both sides are pretty comfortable with finger pointing.   And it's not limited to politics.    How many threads have we had here about how bad our bosses are?   How many times have you heard some entry level, or low level worker say "they (it's always 'they') are a bunch of idiots.  I'd have this company running like a Swiss watch if they'd only listen to me"   Listen dude, they're into making money; if you were actually right, they WOULD be listening to you.    I'm not poor because I'm lazy and/or stupid, it's the MAN holding me down.  WALL STREET!   I'm not addicted because I made bad decisions with a bottle of Oxy, it's BIG PHARMA pushing their shit on me!   Look at the music threads here; it's not that my tastes changed, or that I've grown out of something, it's that once they started using keyboards, they started to suck!    Or they lost it with The Elder!    Or Mangini has no feel!   

None of this is to imply that it's all black and white, either.    By way of example, maybe Pharma DOES have some culpability.   Maybe Gene and Pauil HAVE lost their desire to be the hottest band in the world.   

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1198 on: November 17, 2017, 08:17:41 AM »
Off topic, but pharma has major culpability. There are tobacco execs that would be appalled at some of their tactics.

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