Author Topic: More shootings...are the media creating more?  (Read 24176 times)

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Offline jammindude

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More shootings...are the media creating more?
« on: June 06, 2014, 05:33:03 PM »
Not sure how many of you heard about the shootings at Seattle Pacific University yesterday.   A gunman opened fire with shotgun and killed one and injured four.   A student managed to wrestle him to the ground while he was re-loading. 

But *THIS* was the quote that absolutely killed me and I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on it.   

"The 26-year-old gunman, Aaron Ybarra, was obsessed with the Columbine High School shootings and had even traveled to the Colorado site where two student gunmen killed 15 and injured another 21 fellow students in April 1999, police sources told KIRO 7."

So this guy became obsessed with the Columbine massacre and WANTED to shoot up a school. 

Do you think the media spectacle is causing a perpetuation of the problem?  If so, do you think it can be stopped?   People talk about how they want the media to stop giving these guys attention...but it doesn't seem like you could ever put it to a stop without infringing on freedom of the press.    And it just doesn't seem realistic that everyone will just volunteer to not report on a shooting and "name names".   

I guess I just don't get it.   There are people who still make a hero out of Charles Manson...but for some reason, people don't imitate him.    (well, they do try to imitate the influence he had on his followers...but no one since has imitated what he got them to do)     Why are so many whack jobs obsessed with imitating shooters above any other copy cat crime?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2014, 06:01:05 PM »
Well, there's no doubt that the media coverage influences these guys, but I don't think it causes, or even encourages them beyond what they already are. This knuckehead had issues, and Columbine is something that he focused them on; could have been plenty of other not-so-great events. By and large, everybody who does this sort of thing has their own reasons: social outcasts, pissed off at the US Army, desperately wants to pork Jodie Foster, desperately wants to pork anybody, just all around, good ole fashioned misanthropy, plenty of reasons. Aside from maybe providing some useful tips, the acts that came before them probably had little to do with the actual occurrences that follow.

On a different note about the media coverage of these things, we're seeing an oddball one right now. At the same time this was happening some maniac hoser went on a kill crazy rampage and shot 5 cops, forcing a whole neighborhood into lockdown for a couple of days. I realize that Americans care more about themselves than our slow-talking neighbors to the North, but surely this deserves some decent coverage. Can't help but think maybe there's a message here that they'd just as soon not bring up.

And just as an aside, for all of the possible reasons to run amok, thinking it might get you into the pants of a 19 year old Joide Foster might just top the list. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2014, 06:55:52 PM »
Well, there's no doubt that the media coverage influences these guys, but I don't think it causes, or even encourages them beyond what they already are. 

I tend to agree.  My opinion is based on nothing more than my own "think-so," but the way I see it, seeing coverage of that type of thing does not cause someone to want to do it.  BUT that being said, I think that if someone is already messed up enough to want to do it, seeing coverage enables them and makes them realize they can actually pull it off.  I dunno.  At least, that makes sense to me.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2014, 07:22:20 PM »
I think it gives them the specific idea of shooting up a school to vent their rage, but they probably would have found another way to vent it if it hadn't been a school.

Offline jammindude

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2014, 08:22:46 PM »
It just seems to me that this isn't just a guy who went, "Hey, that's sounds like a good idea"   This is a guy who heard about it, and loved the idea so much that he became obsessed by it.   

I'll go a step further.   It wasn't just the school shooting....it was actually *the attention it got* that became the catalyst.   He didn't fall in love with the idea of Colombine or simply shooting up a school...it is the MEDIA STORM that people like this crave.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 09:44:11 PM »
The media needs to stop mentioning the names of these people and plastering their faces all over TV in the days that follow such tragedies. 

Offline jammindude

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 09:56:07 PM »
The media needs to stop mentioning the names of these people and plastering their faces all over TV in the days that follow such tragedies.

Not to sound too terribly cynical but...  Yeah...good luck with that.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 10:43:01 PM »
The media needs to stop mentioning the names of these people and plastering their faces all over TV in the days that follow such tragedies.
I don't think names and faces matter much. The majority of these guys are known by the location of their rampage. And the only time their faces are memorable is if there's something really wrong with them. Baylock, crazy dude from Arizona and the Joker dude come to mind. How many other ones would you recognize if shown a picture?

These guys ring a bell?


They killed 23 and 21, ranking both of them in the top 5. People would recognize #1 since he's quite noticeably Korean, and #2 because he's the villain from a Star Trek episode. Numbers 2 and 4 here are Hennard and Huberty. I only knew one of them by name, although I'm certainly familiar with the other guy's handiwork due to it's spectacular conclusion.
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Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 09:44:03 AM »
 Shootings in Seattle... Same shit different day.
Moral fiber isn't what it once was, and it shows on all levels.

Whatever happened to Davey and Goliath, after school specials that had moral message, hokey sitcoms that promoted family.

It all seems corny but things weren't fucking nuts like they are now.

Bunch of lunatics with mental disorders killing people on a daily basis. There has to be a reason better than..."its because they are able to get guns!"

If it were only that simple.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 09:49:07 AM »
The media needs to stop mentioning the names of these people and plastering their faces all over TV in the days that follow such tragedies.

Not to sound too terribly cynical but...  Yeah...good luck with that.

Sadly, I know it is just a pipe dream. >:(

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2014, 12:44:25 PM »
I think it's terribly simplistic to blame these shootings on one thing, whether that thing is prevalence and easy access to guns, lack of religion, lack of morals, the media, or even videogames.  These things may all contribute or exacerbate these massacres, but to fully blame them just seems too... easy. It's easy to blame TV or videogames for promoting violence because it makes the solution easy. It's also easy to say that guns are the cause because if we just had less of them, then things would be better. Same for the media. If the media would just stop reporting this, things would be better! Simple solutions to simple problems impact our lives much less than complex solutions to complex problems and they make us feel better about promoting the solutions. Complex solutions, on the other hand, require a greater commitment and if there's anything that Americans hate it's having their lives adversely affected by... anything. Gas prices too high? Invest in new technologies that will eventually, hopefully payoff and reduce our dependence on a rapidly dwindling resource but will require a vast overhaul of our infrastructure and maybe a change in how we go about our lives? Or how about invest even MORE money in said rapidly dwindling resource and kick the can down the road even further? Whatever affects Joe Blow American the least RIGHT NOW is the best for America because fuck the future.

So, if there's anything that I think these massacres have told us about ourselves it's that it's our culture and society that breeds violent misanthropes prone to public massacres. It's our growing wealth gap and inability to do anything about it lest it inconvenience a small subset of the population. It's our growing paranoia and fear of the phantasmal 'other,' whether that 'other' is a burglar, rapist, violent offender, or Muslim terrorist, all of which are seemingly just around the corner waiting for an opportunity to deprive us of our 'things' and our lives. It's a culture that fosters a growing and poisonous political divide that thrives on myopic and partisan disagreement.  Facts are not facts, just differences of opinion and ignoring the truth is not ignorance, it's 'sticking to your guns.' We are solitary islands when we succeed and mere cogs when we fail and it's not our fault, no, its the machine's.  We champion individuality when its convenient and suppress it when it's not. We can't have it both ways, but desperately we try to. Materialism and the accumulation of wealth are our barriers for success and, without them, we are societal failures, little better than leeches suckling off the hard-worked veins of the successful.

We fetishize violence and the violent but we repress one of our most base human desires and needs: sex.  Violence is the normal revolution and freedom, but sex is sin. It's dirty. It's bad. Actually our entire culture has a really weird relationship with sex. We plaster it everywhere, tits and asses and provocative headlines all over magazines, billboards, and television shows, yet we simultaneously don't want to touch it. We don't teach our children to deal with it in a normal, everyday way, we just tell them not to do it. It's bad. Meanwhile violence is glorified everywhere to such an extent that it becomes an everyday part of our lives. Grisly, mutilated corpses are dissected and analyzed in matter-of-fact ways on every episode of Bones and NCIS, but god forbid Janet Jackson shows a nipple on the Super Bowl! Will someone please think of the children?!

Then again, maybe it's the children that are to blame. Maybe it's just that our moral fiber just isn't what it used to be and children with all of their videogames, twitter accounts, championing of gay rights, and promotion of racial equality are all the cause. If only the nanny state would let us beat our children around like God intended, things would be better. Everything was so much easier back when all of our country's ills could be blamed on rock music, comic books, Communists, and the Irish. These modern days with all of their moral complexities make it so hard to find convenient and easy-to-blame scapegoats for our problems.

So (TLDR) I'd argue it's not guns or the idolatry of them that leads to these violent acts. It's not the media that glorifies violence. It's not our vastly growing divide between the wealthy and the poor. It's not our individualistic, I am an island and fuck everyone else mentality. It's not the fear or the hate or our inability and unwillingness to engage or understand that which is different from us. All of it is responsible and it's all wrapped up in that distinctly red, white and, blue bow that we call being an American. We breed violent misanthropes and in order to do anything about it, we'd need to take a good, long look at it what it means to be us. At what makes us, us. That might get in the way of American Idol or complaining about how the Republicans/Democrats are ruining America with their Fascist/Socialist policies. It's much better, much easier, to just try and bring back prayer in school or place some restrictions on guns or some other feel good, quick fix 'solution.' Because real solutions require real commitment and Americans don't have time for that. That's too hard, too... inconvenient.

Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 01:08:24 PM »
Wow, King in Crimson...that was quite a post. Still digesting it. :tup
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2014, 01:37:30 PM »
I knew it. It's the fucking Irish.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 01:54:05 PM »
Hey wait, I'm Irish! #offendedcauseitswhateverybodythesedayslikestobe ;)

On a serious note, great post, TKIC. :tup :tup

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2014, 12:51:15 PM »
Wow, King in Crimson...that was quite a post. Still digesting it. :tup

Hey wait, I'm Irish! #offendedcauseitswhateverybodythesedayslikestobe ;)

On a serious note, great post, TKIC. :tup :tup
Thanks.

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When is it not? ;)

Offline jammindude

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2014, 01:26:22 PM »
This entire thread was worth it just for that one post.   
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Offline carl320

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2014, 01:47:52 PM »
This entire thread was worth it just for that one post.

This.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2014, 09:45:09 AM »
This entire thread was worth it just for that one post.
Indeed.  Very nice.
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Offline sueño

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2014, 01:28:02 PM »
Beautifully said, The King   :hefdaddy
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2014, 01:58:55 PM »
Great read, king

Offline j

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2014, 05:09:51 PM »
Don't want to let this circle jerk get too out of control, but that was a seriously good post.

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Offline sueño

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2014, 06:37:43 PM »
But it feels so good...  :hat
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Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2014, 10:19:44 PM »
When I wrote that, I guess I expected much less agreement on a post that basically boils down to "American culture is crap" and not a parade of kudos (and not the granola kind, thankfully).

Thanks guys. Now the cynical douchebag inside of me is all warm and fuzzy and endlessly confused. :)

Offline carl320

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2014, 10:32:29 PM »
But the sad thing is that it isn't just one thing.  It is a conglomeration of pretty much all you said, IMO.  Lack of taking responsibility, arrogance,  and the individual before the community are all important points when it comes to this.
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Online Chino

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2014, 07:17:26 AM »
When I wrote that, I guess I expected much less agreement on a post that basically boils down to "American culture is crap" and not a parade of kudos (and not the granola kind, thankfully).

Thanks guys. Now the cynical douchebag inside of me is all warm and fuzzy and endlessly confused. :)

The American culture is absolutely horrid, and I fear what the state of this country is going to be when I'm 60.

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2014, 08:12:21 AM »
Not sure how I feel about this. The male shooter's post from Info Wars, and his girlfriend in the comment section..

http://planet.infowars.com/offbeat/the-police-to-kill-or-not-to-kill

Quote
I stand at a point in my life where I am on probation for selling marijuana.  I take urine screens frequently and I am forced to take drug classes I do not need.  Before I got arrested I had 2 jobs and was selling weed to my friends and family on the side.  Now I cannot find a job.  My probation officer states that if I protest that my probation will be violated.  They have tried to tell my fiance, who has no criminal record, that she may not own a firearm if I live in the house.  Now, i face a dire problem.  At any time the police could show up to my house and enter it for any reason at all, because, since I’m on probation aparently I dont have my 4th amendment right and neither does my fiance.  I live in Indiana and recently a law was passed named the right to resist law.  As i can make out from it, if a police officer kicks in my door and is not there legally, then I may shoot him.  But what is legal?  A warrant signed by a judge?  What if that judge however enforces unconstitutional laws?  Locks people in cages for putting a substance into their bodies.  I was arrested for a crime, that is a felony, yet i hurt no one.  Never laid a hand on a person or their property.  Was selling something on the black market that is in high demand.  Yet there is no victim in the crime i committed, so how can that be a felony charge?  A charge that takes my 1st, 2nd, and 4th right away?  How can this be?  Do I really live in a free country?  So here I sit today pondering………….
Before I go any further however, i would like to tell you a story about a friend of mine.  He got charged with a misdomenor for having a marijuana pipe on him.  He was released from jail and he was given the wrong court date.  He then had an arrest warrant out for him.  I was at his house late one night playing a video game with him.  A knock on the door came.  He opened the door and cops shoved him to the ground and came rushing in guns drawn.  several of the police officers were wearing ski masks.  2 police officers then shoved guns in my face fingers on the triggers as the rest swept the house.  They pulled his father who was asleep from his bed and dragged him into the living room.  I was ordered to lay face down on the floor as they searched me.  Finally after running my name they uncuffed me and his father and took my friend  to jail.  Before we knew what was going on it was over and I felt as if I had taken a trip back in time to nazi germany.
Now, that was my last encounter with police officers.  I’m afraid they may try to do some stuff like that to my fiance and I.  For the most part, I’m a law abiding citizen.  I believe in Gods law.  You know the ones.  Dont steal, dont murder, etc.  I fear that if they came, even with a warrant, that I feel they are being unlawfull and infringing upon my rights.  I feel that I have been violated and tread upon.  That the so called justice system has done me harm.  I do not wish to kill police.  I understand that most of them believe they are doing the right thing.  Yet, I will not go to jail, because I have not committed a crime!  I would rather die than be labeled as a criminal.  Let them call me a terrorist.  Let them label me as a fanatic, some nut job.  I know the truth, and so does God.  I’m sure our founding fathers were labeled as such.  Call me a radical, i will wear that badge with pride.  Because America is a radical idea!  Brought up upon radical thinking.  That each man has constitutional rights that are God given and cannot be taken away no matter what.  I refuse to stand by and let them dictate my life.  My family loves me, my neighbors love me.  I do good for the community, more than any cop can claim.  How can a police officer have a consience arresting people who have done nothing to harm a fellow american?  How can they sleep at night?  I wouldnt be able to.  So as i reflect, I’m being pushed further and further into a corner.  I am like a wild coyote.  You corner me, I will fight to the death.  I love America, i love the idea of it.  I am broken hearted tho to see people so pacified by materealism and obsession with hollywood stars.  It is our duty as American citizens to stand against tyranny.  To stand against corruption at all levels.  How did this happen?  That patriots like me could be resting under the boot of tyrants, and as i plead for help from my fellow americans they just walk on by.  All the while thinking, at least its not happening to me.  Yet, the sad thing is, it is happening to them.  So, do I kill cops and make a stand when they come to get me?  I would prefer to die than sit in their jail, when I have done nothing to hurt anyone.

He said this in reply to another person's comment.

Quote
I do not want to kill cops. Im not advocating doing it. I’m not going to go out and find a cop and shoot them. But, if they come to take me away, I would rather die than go to jail or a fema re-education camp when I have done nothing to hurt another human being.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2014, 09:29:27 AM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.

I'm inclined to agree that cops are asserting way too much authority here, and people are oblivious to what's going on. That doesn't change the fact that he put himself into the situation he's in.

And seriously, felony warrant service for a failure to appear on a misdemeanor paraphernalia charge? That's one seriously fucked up department and I'd be pissed off about it too. However, that's becoming the norm in this country. They're just lucky they didn't have wii controllers in their hands.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2014, 09:42:55 AM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.


I'm aware.

I have mixed feelings. I agree with basically everything he complained about, but shooting cops isn't the answer.

Offline sueño

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 10:35:52 AM »
"We spend most of our lives convinced we’re the protagonist of the story, but we rarely realize that we’re just supporting characters in everybody else’s story. Nobody thinks about you as much as you do."

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2014, 10:43:22 AM »
This is the guy from the LV shooting, not the Washington one, BTW.


I'm aware.

I have mixed feelings. I agree with basically everything he complained about, but shooting cops isn't the answer.
Shooting anyone is rarely the answer. Whatever valid complaints or issues this guy may have had with the system will be drowned out by the horrific ramifications of his actions. To put it bluntly, this guy is no patriot he's just another nutjob with a propensity to solve life's problems with a gun and violence.

That said we should all take a brief moment to thank Nixon and Reagan for the glorious war on drugs and it's numerous benefits to American culture.

Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2014, 11:38:28 AM »
That said we should all take a brief moment to thank Nixon and Reagan for the glorious war on drugs and it's numerous benefits to American culture.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that the greater problem is with the for-profit criminal justice system, and in particular the privatized prisons (which we also have St. Ronnie to thank for). The war on drugs is obviously pretty silly, but the bigger issue is cops, governments and business exploiting the holly hell out of it. Cops base their priorities a great deal on who pays money into the department. Grant money and capital forfeitures can be a helluva motivation to bust dopers. Prosecutors and judges don't get themselves elected based on their "soft on crime" approaches. Businesses that make money off of this stuff pay out tons of money to politicians for tougher laws and penalties. CCA has every reason under the sun to want the most people humanly possible put into one of their jails. Really shitty way to run a country, frankly.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2014, 07:15:11 AM »

Offline Tick

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2014, 07:57:08 AM »
Do any other countries sell this kind of stuff?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/12/bulletproof-blankets-body_n_5479885.html




Sad state we are in. Every school in America needs these.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2014, 08:29:05 AM »
I dunno, maybe we should think about spending $1000/kiddo on improving the quality of their education so they're actually worth a fuck, than on a halfassed attempt at insuring they're not part of the .001% that get shot by disgruntled students. Or possibly trying to fix one of the countless things far more likely to kill your student than a student run amok. How about trying to keep kids from shooting themselves, which is far, far more likely than them shooting somebody else. Seems like a better investment to me.

Christ I hate knee-jerk reactions and the exploitation of parental dread and terror.
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Re: More shootings...are the media creating more?
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2014, 08:47:24 AM »
I remember right after Sandy Hook there was a company that started making a killing selling backpacks with a bullet-proof plate in them. I also remember after 9/11 seeing a company that was selling backpack parachutes like crazy.