Pink Floyd Discography thread v. 'On An Island, end V1'

[masterthes]

I don't dislike this album, but it's really not a Floyd album. It's pretty much a Roger Waters album with Pink Floyd providing backup (and Gilmour on one track). My favorite tracks are The Post War Dream, Your Possible Pasts, When the Tigers Broke Free (although the one I have doesn't have that track), Hero's Return, Gunner's Dream, Fletcher, and the title track

[Mosh]

I love this album. I understand people's grievances for it but even still I always find it extremely enjoyable to listen to and I think it has some really great moments. It's not really a Floyd album, but I don't have a problem with that. The three song run at the end: Final Cut, Not Now John, and Two Suns in the Sunset is one of my favorite three song runs of all time. I love all three songs and together they pack an emotional punch that gives me chills every time.

Oddly though I always felt like When the Tigers Broke Free was way too out of place. It fits thematically but I dunno, it breaks the flow for me.

[Jaq]

Oddly though I always felt like When the Tigers Broke Free was way too out of place. It fits thematically but I dunno, it breaks the flow for me.

It wasn't on the original release, which is the primary reason it doesn't fit the flow.

The Final Cut works if you think of it as what it really is: a Roger Waters solo album. It's Pink Floyd in name only, with a few great songs, some good ones, and a whole fucking ton of depressing ones. I tend to recommend it only to people who are completionists or who love Waters' solo albums.

[Ultimetalhead]

Final Cut's pretty bland, but I like it well enough. There's some nice melodies and lyrical ideas here and there. I quite like The Post War Dream and how it builds up before blowing up into the 30 second epicness that closes it out. Really, all the songs have at least one nice section, but it all kind of muddles together. I don't listen to this album very often, but it's not like I hate it when I put it on. Like Jaq said, it's really a Roger Waters solo album.

[Mosh]

Oddly though I always felt like When the Tigers Broke Free was way too out of place. It fits thematically but I dunno, it breaks the flow for me.

It wasn't on the original release, which is the primary reason it doesn't fit the flow.

The Final Cut works if you think of it as what it really is: a Roger Waters solo album. It's Pink Floyd in name only, with a few great songs, some good ones, and a whole fucking ton of depressing ones. I tend to recommend it only to people who are completionists or who love Waters' solo albums.

I know it wasn't on the original, but it still seems odd. Everything about that song fits with Final Cut. Depressing music, Roger Waters singing about war, the rest of the band nowhere to be heard. Theoretically it should fit this album much more than The Wall (which if it was on the album, it wouldn't have fit there either), but it still doesn't.

But yea, I went in expecting a Waters solo album and I got one. I really love his contributions to Floyd and thought they completely lost it when he left, so it's no surprise that I enjoy this album. Unfortunately I don't really like his other solo albums. 

By the way, Gilmour is hardly on this album but when he is he fucking kills it. The few guitar solos he has are right up there with his best. The guy never has a bad moment.

[Nel]

The only song I really enjoy is "Not Now John". Fuck all that indeed. It hits hard, I love the mechanical noises, Gilmour's vocals, playing, Waters' insane screaming ("Where's the fucking bar, John?!"), and the way it reprises One Of The Few.

The rest of it... nothing. Boring an depressing.

[Zydar]

Never cared for this album, it's so dull and depressing. I've tried listening to it a couple of times, but it doesn't do anything for me.

[Progmetty]

It's an album that came after a streak of 4 timeless masterpieces, that was an enormous pressure for a band coming apart. It feels like the winding down of Roger Waters and a declaration that none of his psychological problems has been resolved even though they've been laid out for everyone to see.
Again musically it came after 4 very well structured album and The Final Cut feels like a normal any-band album, just a bunch of new songs, not a bad thing but not what I look for with Floyd and was never presented again.
& I don't get the appeal of When the Tigers Broke Free.

[Mister Gold]

I didn't actually check out The Final Cut until relatively recently. I like it, but it's not up there with Dark Side, Animals or Wish in my opinion. That being said, "Two Suns in the Sunset" is one of the greatest songs the band ever did. Brilliant finale.

[Orbert]

Oh you guys!  Now I feel like I should listen to this album again.

[jingle.boy]

Just had a re-listen of it for the first time in years.  You know, when you start to think of it NOT as a PF album, and as a Rogers solo album, it puts it in a new perspective, and makes it seem better to me.  It's all about expectations.  Expecting it to be something it isn't will only lead to disappointment.  So, as a Waters solo effort, I enjoyed it.  There were a few "oh, that's definitely PF" moments - noticeably in the title track (especially the solo), and Not Now John.  As Mosh said, the final three songs are great, probably because these sound the most like PF.

[KevShmev]

Pass.

[Orbert]

I gave this one a spin today.  Listening to it, really listening, it's better than I'd remembered.  Lots of atmosphere, great production, and even though I get a bit tired of the bleakness of it, each of the songs individually sounds great.  David's guitar sounds great as always, the keyboards (is that Rick?) do exactly what they're supposed to do, and the songs have a lot of feel.  Overall, it's the singularity of the album that people agree is its downfall, but it's not horrible or anything, just not my thing.

[JayOctavarium]

Love this album. I discovered it while I was at my height of my Wall obsession. I discovered the hard way when I was in high school not to listen to Possible Pasts and the title track while deeply depressed though. Because I did... a lot. It kinda sucks because now I associate the songs (and the whole album) with deep depression and spinning it brings me down. lol

[GentlemanofDread]

I gave this one a spin today.  Listening to it, really listening, it's better than I'd remembered.  Lots of atmosphere, great production, and even though I get a bit tired of the bleakness of it, each of the songs individually sounds great.  David's guitar sounds great as always, the keyboards (is that Rick?) do exactly what they're supposed to do, and the songs have a lot of feel.  Overall, it's the singularity of the album that people agree is its downfall, but it's not horrible or anything, just not my thing.

It is not Rick! This is the only PF album with no Rick on it. The keys are either Roger Waters, Andy Bown or Michael Kamen.

[Orbert]

Damn.  I knew that there was the falling out and Rick left for a while, so it makes sense that this is the one he's not on.

[GentlemanofDread]

I actually feel that it wasn't just Waters who had fallen out with Rick, but Gilmour too. Especially after The Wall tour, Waters must have been fine with Wright as just a session guy but not working with him.

[Progmetty]

^ I felt the same way.

[JayOctavarium]

You know Nick didn't really play on the album either right? I don't remember how many songs but Waters made him feel like such a shitty drummer that Nick psyched himself out of being able to play.


He did work on the holophonics on this album though.

[GentlemanofDread]

You know Nick didn't really play on the album either right? I don't remember how many songs but Waters made him feel like such a shitty drummer that Nick psyched himself out of being able to play.


He did work on the holophonics on this album though.

I can't actually find anything about Waters making him feel shitty, all I can find is that Mason was going through a divorce and just couldn't be fully active. The only song that had drums that Mason didn't do was "Two Suns In The Sunset".

[JayOctavarium]

Ok.


I just read Inside Out too.... I was mixing it up with some other info I got while back. Disregard

[Jaq]

You're thinking about A Momentary Lapse of Reason, where Mason felt so poorly about his drumming that he barely played anything on the album.

[Mladen]

Now that I have more time on my hands, I just can't not chime in. 

The Final cut is probably the album I needed the most time to get into. Five years. Never had an album by any band ever taken me so long to figure out. I was 15 when I started getting into Floyd, and I already loved Animals, Wish you were here, Dark side of the moon and some of the early stuff. The Wall was fine but still nothing special (which changed in a few years as well), but The Final cut was just too much. While discussing Floyd with my dad's friend, who had already owned the vinyl for about 25 years, he told me a line that stuck in my head to this day: ''Don't worry about not getting The Final cut, you'll listen to it when you get older.''

Five years later, it happened. I saw Brit Floyd live and they busted out Get your filthy hands off my desert and The Fletcher's memorial home (both of which were only the few songs from the album that I enjoyed). Remembering how cool that was, I decided to return to the album. Suddenly it hit me. Falklands war. The lyrics continuing the anti-war theme that started with The Wall. The dark, depressing vibe that started with The Wall. Roger Waters coming off extremely bitter and aggressive vocally. That was it. I started loving it.

Honestly, I don't see it as a Roger Waters album. I see it as a Pink Floyd album. Reading through this thread reminded me that Waters started to be a more prominent songwriter in the time of Wish you were here. Every next album seems to be more and more about Waters. And even if we compare The Final cut to The Wall, we can see that Gilmour is listed as a co-writer on only one out of 12 songs on The Final cut, whereas he was listed on three songs out of 26 on The Wall. It's not that big of a difference if you ask me. Why would The Final cut be a Waters solo album but not The Wall?

As far as favorites go, I love the opening song, especially the way it explodes in the last half a minute. The Fletcher has a tremendously emotional vocal performance, incredibly sad melody and some of the Roger's sickest lyrics. The guitar solo is worth mentioning, as I think Gilmour did a fine job on here despite not being involved too much. The song with some more involvement from him, Not now John, is also one of my favorites, since it's one of the catchier, ''funner'' songs on it - I also adore the way Waters goes crazy during the outro. Finally, the underrated jewel has to be Southampton dock, featuring extremely touching lyrics and a simple yet powerful chord progression. Also, there something about ''...she bravely waves the boys goodbye again'' and the high pitched background vocals that almost move me to tears. Man, Roger surely sang his heart out on this album.

Overall, I think this is a brilliant and logical continuation of Pink Floyd discography. People often talk about ''the big four'', but I would actually go out on a limb and call it ''the big five'' - a streak of albums that includes The Final cut.

[Orbert]

Why would The Final cut be a Waters solo album but not The Wall?

Richard Wright.  At the very least, The Wall featured all four members of Pink Floyd, the ones who had made the sound, made the band what it is.  It's not just about the writing credits; there's a lot of give and take and sharing of musical ideas that happen, even subconsciously and even if one of them is technically only a session player, that make an album sound how it sounds.  The Final Cut does not have that sound.  The keyboards, as I said upthread, are okay, adequate, but not a major contributing force in the sound.

That's why I consider The Wall the last "real" Pink Floyd album.  After that, Rick was out, then Roger left and Rick came back and we were a bit closer to the classic sound, but without the writing.  Sure, David writes some good songs, but even as much as Roger was a control freak and pretty much a dick to work with, Pink Floyd wasn't the same without him.

[Mladen]

That's interesting, I never thought of Wright as someone who strongly influenced the sound on The Wall, which might be why The Final cut and The Wall sound so similar to me. It sounds like most of the keyboard parts on The Wall were already composed or somewhat figured out by Waters, which might be possible knowing that Waters demoed a lot of the stuff before starting to work with the guys. It's not like I'm perfectly familiar with the history, though, I even forgot if Wright was REALLY involved in it and how much of a ''session musician'' was he. Maybe I should return a couple of pages. 

[jingle.boy]

I agree with Bob... not just on the aspect of Wright only being a session musician, but on the fact that writing credits alone don't tell the story of how songs/albums sound and feel.  Writing =/= contributing.  The Wall had much more contributions from the band despite Waters leading the bulk of the writing of it.  That's not the case with The Final Cut - Waters wrote; the band didn't really 'contribute'.  Add on to the fact Gilmour only sings on one track, that's a big piece of it as well.  While he only has 3/26 writing credits on The Wall, he's singing on 9/26 - and 7 of the tracks he doesn't sing on are the 'bridge' tracks that are under 2 minutes.  So in a sense, he's singing on half the album - vs 1/12 on The Final Cut.

It just doesn't sound like a PF album to me - just the same way that Piper doesn't either - it was dominated far too much by one individual's contributions.

That's just my opinion.

[Orbert]

"Comfortably Numb" wouldn't be the same without Rick.  Ditto "Run Like Hell".  "Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2" features the classic interplay between David and Rick.  Beyond the hits, there are just countless little atmospheric things that Rick adds that I suppose someone else could have done, but they would have been different, and the sound would not have been the same.  Some people call The Wall a Roger Waters solo album.  I've always disagreed.  To me, it's not about who wrote what or how much, it's how it sounds.  The Wall sounds like Pink Floyd to me.  The Final Cut sounds good, but it just seems to be lacking something, and now I know what it is.

Ninja'd but whatever, we're saying the same thing anyway.

[Mladen]

Great points and interesting views indeed. I don't agree with all of it, but the ''writing =/= contributing'' is something we can all relate to when discussing music.

[Mosh]

You know Nick didn't really play on the album either right? I don't remember how many songs but Waters made him feel like such a shitty drummer that Nick psyched himself out of being able to play.


He did work on the holophonics on this album though.

I can't actually find anything about Waters making him feel shitty, all I can find is that Mason was going through a divorce and just couldn't be fully active. The only song that had drums that Mason didn't do was "Two Suns In The Sunset".

I remember reading somewhere that Mason had issues with the meter changes in Two Suns. It is a strange song as far as meters go.

[Crow]

Never cared for the album as a whole but I really like Two Suns in the Sunset regardless. Even if it's depressing as all hell

[KevShmev]

Yeah, there is no doubt that Waters was the brains behind The Wall, but it wouldn't have been nearly as good without Gilmour.  Hell, Comfortably Numb wouldn't have even been a part of it without Gilmour insisting on it.  That is crazy to think about. 

[The Curious Orange]

I'll say it here - The Final Cut is the best album Pink Floyd made.

It's NOT a Waters solo album, as many people claim, it's a fully fledged Floyd album. It's not as beautiful or as soaring as WYWH or DSOTM. It's harsh, it's ugly, it's stark and minimalistic. It's difficult to listen to.

The Vietnam War saw a huge flow of protest songs from American music artists. Where was the protest music from UK artists about the Falklands War? There weren't any. Paul Weller was in The Style Council now. The UK music scene was utterly devoid of angry Young Turks bashing into Maggie. I find it so odd that the only major protest music against the Falklands War came from a bunch of middle aged millionaires. These were the very people you'd have expected to be donating money to the Tories, not writing protest albums against them.

You do need to be older to appreciate this. Possibly you need to be British and of an age to have lived through those times, but I do feel that the Betrayal of the Post-War Dream theme probably resonates with a lot of people around the world - the things we fought and died for dismissed and betrayed by a new generation of venal, monetarist politicians. I look around Britain today and all I can think is "Maggie, what did you do?"

The music matches the lyrics perfectly - take Paranoid Eyes, for example, it's basically poetry with hardly any music or tune at all. It is stark music for a stark theme. Waters spits out his acusations with real venom. Gilmour's guitar solos are so few and far between they really hit when they come.

It moves me like no other album. The Gunner's Dream can still make me cry, all these years later. It is the Floyd's most acomplished work, and their best album.

[Zantera]

Despite having The Wall as my favorite PF album and one of my all time favorites, I haven't checked out The Final Cut. I guess I should.

[jammindude]

I still remember in the early days of the internet...I was surfing the web for the first time on my new "hand me down" 8088 computer.   

I found what was (at that time) the most popular PF fan website on the net.   They were having a poll for PF's best album, and PF's worst album.    With over three thousand participants, The Final Cut won BOTH categories.    I never forgot that.   It makes me  to this very day, and it shows just how truly polarizing this album is.   

[jingle.boy]

I'll say it here - The Final Cut is the best album Pink Floyd made.

 It is the Floyd's most acomplished work, and their best album.

There's something you don't hear every day... or, ever.

shows just how truly polarizing this album is.   

I guess The Final Cut is the 'Scarred' of the PF catalog here at DTF.