Pink Floyd Discography thread v. 'On An Island, end V1'

[The King in Crimson]

Okay, so I gave Piper another listen after being away from it for quite a few years. It was... better than I recall. "Astronomy Domine," "Lucifer Sam," "Interstellar Overdrive," "Take Up Thy Stethoscope..." and maybe "Chapter 24" are all the standouts. The rest feel as if they have kernels of good songs within them but overall end up as something I could be happy not hearing ever again. 

This might be an album that gets better the more you listen to it, but it's very hard to shake that initial and very negative first impression that I have of it.

[KevShmev]

Astronomy Domine is good, but the Piper version falls a bit flat to me, especially since later live versions, from both Ummagumma and Pulse, kick the ever-living crap out of it.

And I'll never get what people see in Bike.  It's like, there's sort of a nice melody in there, but it gets lost amongst all of the weirdness and what I see as lyrics that are a bit too corny.  It comes across as a Beatles-wannabe song that is missing the great melody. 

[KevShmev]

To touch on that a little more, and to jump forward just a tad, Jugband Blues has the same problem.  While a bit out there, the chorus (around the 40-second mark) is a very nice melody...and then we never hear it again, as the latter half of the song goes into no-man's land and just sort of bludgeons you with all kinds of weirdness and whatnot before just ending.  Contrast songs like Bike and Jugband Blues to early singles like Arnold Layne, Apples and Oranges and Candy and a Currant Bun. Those early singles all had their tidbits of weirdness, too, but the nice melodies almost never got lost or overtaken by the, lets call it, experimentation, but it's like by the time they got around to making their first proper album, Piper, what nice melodies Barrett had were being glossed over since the drugs he was taking was making him go all schizo in every song, so not only were the melodies getting lost, the arrangements, especially by short song standards, were suffering badly.

[GentlemanofDread]

Completely agree Kev! Syd was great, but madness made some parts of it a bit.. too hard to listen to. I'll talk more about why I'm not the biggest fan of Jugland Blues in the Saucerful post, but..

So I mentioned in OP about long live performances, and I'm curious if anyone is aware of the London 66-67 Live EP that got released in 1995? It's just two tracks, a near 17 minute performance of Interstellar Overdrive and a rather.. spacey tune known as Nick's Boogie. I'm not a fan of it, but it seems to be what people who didn't like Piper's at the time were on about. (Die hard fans of the underground scene said that Pipers wasn't the true Pink Floyd sound!) I'd at least recommend giving the Interstellar Overdrive part a listen at least.

[jammindude]

Bike (to me) works brilliantly almost as a novelty song. 

Reminds me of a local thrash band Forced Entry who created a monster thrash masterpiece album that was serious at just about every turn....and then ended with a completely simplistic anthem about partying that rivals Steel Panther in its comic delivery.    Of course, it became a concert favorite and staple, and was a perfect way to end the album IMO. 

Bike does the same thing for me with Piper.   And honestly, I thought everyone loved it.   It was the first Syd song I ever heard, and I fell in love with it immediately.

[Ultimetalhead]

Bike is a masterpiece. Haters can stuff it.

[jingle.boy]

Questions
1. Should I also do whatever Live EPs there might be?
2. Should we talk about the film soundtracks?
3. Should we also look at the individual members solo albums?

Here's my take... don't do any of the above in complete and utter detail the way you will with the studio albums.  If they are significant and meaningful releases, then sure.  However, also be cognizant and respectful there are people on a waiting list for their turn.  With a band like Floyd (as I think Scrop mentioned), you could go on for 6 months quite easily - and things might get a little tiresome for all by the end of it.  Plus, it also sets the 'precedent' for upcoming bands.  My vote would be to keep it to the really meaningful releases, or bundle a few albums of the above categories in one update.

As for Piper, I find it fascinating how bi-polar the reception has been.  And I'm in the camp of "I don't get it".  As many have said, anything before Meddle just makes me scratch my head.  Now, in the late 80s, I probably would've tripped all over it.  Now, not so much.  Even Meddle walks that line of 'wtf?? and 'WTF!!!'

[KevShmev]

Agreed, regarding Meddle, but I'll say more about that when we get to it.

[bl5150]

there are people on a waiting list for their turn. 

Where's the waiting list for discogs??  If I'm missing something obvious then hey - I'm on some heavy shit at the moment   

[jingle.boy]

there are people on a waiting list for their turn. 

Where's the waiting list for discogs??  If I'm missing something obvious then hey - I'm on some heavy shit at the moment   

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=41524.0

[bl5150]

Thanks - assumed it might have been a sticky like the roulette/top 50's.

[Orbert]

Whenever I see "Pow R Toc H" I say "Power Torch" in my head.  Mental interpolation, or whatever it's called.  And I think of one of these things:



Power Torch!

I like the psycho-jams more than Syd's silly songs, but some of Syd's silly songs are okay.

Since I'm a completist, I think all official albums should at least be touched upon.  If discussion fizzles after a day or two, fine, move on to the next album.  There's no reason to sit on an album for a week waiting for people to comment.  When I did mine, I always figured it a was guideline, not a rule, and I don't know if any album even made it to a week.  People can always come back to them and comment anyway, if they want. 

Solo albums and side projects are trickier.  I tried to include the ones which seemed to fit into the evolution of the band's sound, or otherwise influenced it.  But my focus was always on the evolution of the band's sound and how it changed as the personnel and the music scene changed, not just "let's discuss every album".  Different people obviously will do things differently.

[KevShmev]

Good points, Orbert.

Also, with three of this discography threads going at the same time, it'd be cool if the three running them could synch them up so they aren't all doing updates around the same time.  Like, one could do an update today, another tomorrow, another Thursday, etc.  For those of us who are following all of them, it'd be nice. 

[JayOctavarium]

Could always lump all the Water's solo albums into one discussion and lump Gilmour's 2 post Floyd albums (counting Live in Gdansk... especially since it was the last release Rick played on before dying.)

[jingle.boy]

Good points, Orbert.

Also, with three of this discography threads going at the same time, it'd be cool if the three running them could synch them up so they aren't all doing updates around the same time.  Like, one could do an update today, another tomorrow, another Thursday, etc.  For those of us who are following all of them, it'd be nice. 

Agreed... although you could always just read the updates on different days. 

[Podaar]

Good points, Orbert.

Also, with three of this discography threads going at the same time, it'd be cool if the three running them could synch them up so they aren't all doing updates around the same time.  Like, one could do an update today, another tomorrow, another Thursday, etc.  For those of us who are following all of them, it'd be nice. 

Agreed... although you could always just read the updates on different days. 

I popped off a note to GoD and Ultimate to see what could be done to coordinate. We'll see.

[Podaar]

I'm listening to Piper right now (it's been years) I think it's great! Of course there are a few songs that I'm not keen on but I don't loathe them either. Highlights for me are Astronomy Domine, Lucifer Sam, Pow R. Tock. H, Interstellar Overdrive (of course) Chapter 24, and Bike.

I don't know, maybe I just partook of too much microdot when I was a youngster? That could be my problem, but from this 'Mercan's point of view, the overtly Britishness of this record is so much fun that I can forgive the low points. Still, it will probably be years before I spin this again. 

[hefdaddy42]

I listened to the first half of Piper this morning, and that was some fucked up shit.

[Ultimetalhead]

I listened to the first half of Piper this morning, and that was some fucked up shit.

Yeah, the whole album is quite a trip. I've always considered Pow R Toc H to be a bad acid trip, while Interstellar Overdrive was supposed to be a good one.

[KevShmev]

Even though The Who was already doing heavy stuff, that main riff at the beginning of Interstellar Overdrive is pretty heavy by 1967 standards.  It's just too bad that the rest of the song doesn't do a lot for me (and I hate that chirping thing he does on the guitar around the 2:30 mark on for like a minute or so). 

[Nihil-Morari]

Even though The Who was already doing heavy stuff, that main riff at the beginning of Interstellar Overdrive is pretty heavy by 1967 standards.  It's just too bad that the rest of the song doesn't do a lot for me (and I hate that chirping thing he does on the guitar around the 2:30 mark on for like a minute or so).

Yeah, that's crazy. Or should I say 'outta sight'?

[hefdaddy42]

Just finished up.  Probably the last time I will ever listen to that.

[Cool Chris]

"Piper..." is the worst album by a band that went on to become legendary. If ever a band needed a mulligan after their debut, this was it. Charlie D's legacy in DT is more noteworthy that Syd's in PF.

Too harsh?

[jingle.boy]

"Piper..." is the worst album by a band that went on to become legendary. If ever a band needed a mulligan after their debut, this was it. Charlie D's legacy in DT is more noteworthy that Syd's in PF.

Too harsh?

Nope.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

"Piper..." is the worst album by a band that went on to become legendary. If ever a band needed a mulligan after their debut, this was it. Charlie D's legacy in DT is more noteworthy that Syd's in PF.

Too harsh?

Yep.

[Orbert]

Some people still can't distinguish between what they don't like and what is "bad".  Pink Floyd's debut album may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it was groundbreaking and it was perfect encapsulation of what they were all about at the time.  Heck, I don't really like it either, but I would never call it bad, certainly not "the worst" of anything.  It's fucking brilliant.

[GentlemanofDread]

You could argue as well that Syd's legacy is what defined some of the music that Pink Floyd would become famous from.

[Cool Chris]

Likewise, just because something is 'groundbreaking' it doesn't necessarily make it good.

Whatever it was PF was about at that time, I am glad (in a purely musical way) Syd flaked out, they foudn David, and moved on to better music.

[jingle.boy]

Likewise, just because something is 'groundbreaking' it doesn't necessarily make it good.

Whatever it was PF was about at that time, I am glad (in a purely musical way) Syd flaked out, they foudn David, and moved on to better music.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Likewise, just because something is 'groundbreaking' it doesn't necessarily make it good.

Whatever it was PF was about at that time, I am glad (in a purely musical way) Syd flaked out, they foudn David, and moved on to better music.

I can't speak for Orbert, but Piper being "ground-breaking" has nothing to do with it for me. Great music speaks for itself.

And for what it's worth, I think Syd's stuff with Floyd pales in comparison to the "golden" era with Gilmour. While it does come down to subjectivity and "opinions this and that, blah, blah blah...", statements like this:

Charlie D's legacy in DT is more noteworthy that Syd's in PF.

are objectively wrong, and aren't really right just because you didn't like the music they were making at the time.

It'd be kinda like me saying that The Beatles' contribution and legacy to rock music was minimal solely because I didn't like them and not necessarily based on any actual facts. (Which I would never say, cause I love the Beatles, but this an analogy, k?)

[hefdaddy42]

Well, I agree with most of that, but is Piper really considered "brilliant"?  Just asking.

[jammindude]

Well, I agree with most of that, but is Piper really considered "brilliant"?  Just asking.

In my experience...yes.   I'm actually shocked by the amount of detractors in this thread.  I knew there would be some.   Piper has always had its naysayers.   But for the most part, the album is considered a classic.   Not that Amazon is the "be all, end all" for anything...but the average review out of 423 reviews is 4 and a half stars....and so far, I haven't been able to find a site where a majority of a group give the album a poor review as they have done here.

I'm baffled.

[KevShmev]

You could argue as well that Syd's legacy is what defined some of the music that Pink Floyd would become famous from.

Well, sure, it's impossible to argue otherwise, since Barrett's plight always stuck with the band and was THE inspiration for Shine On You Crazy Diamond and a lot of The Wall. 

[Podaar]

Well, I agree with most of that, but is Piper really considered "brilliant"?  Just asking.

In my experience...yes.   I'm actually shocked by the amount of detractors in this thread.  I knew there would be some.   Piper has always had its naysayers.   But for the most part, the album is considered a classic.   Not that Amazon is the "be all, end all" for anything...but the average review out of 423 reviews is 4 and a half stars....and so far, I haven't been able to find a site where a majority of a group give the album a poor review as they have done here.

I'm baffled.

Amazon customers search for, purchase and review albums they already like. That's hardly a relevant sample of music fans, or so it seems to me.

I think what it comes down to is, do you reach for it when you want a Pink Floyd fix? I certainly acknowledge it's importance to both the band and music in general. I even like it...well, some of it but I'm not going to spin it anytime soon.

Some folks 'round these parts seem to engage in hyperbole to make a point is all. They may detest the album but only a rare few have called it, and Syd by extension, unimportant.

[jammindude]

My point was, that I have yet to find a public forum where the overwhelming majority express a dislike for this album...except. here.