Author Topic: Hannibal Lector's Couch - TV Series and Mythos Discussion *IT'S RAINING SPOILERS  (Read 14335 times)

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Offline TioJorge

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I thought I'd create a topic for one of the most riveting and interesting psychological murder mysteries to date. I'll say as a disclaimer, the search system has always been absolutely horrible (and/or I'm an invalid) and I couldn't find any Hannibal topics despite that I'm quite certain we have one. Nonetheless, apologies if there is one and please either delete or combine these, my friendly neighborhood MODs.

I love the series and have been immensely interested in the lore of the books and show since the original Hannibal with Hopkins came out. Since then I've read Red Dragon and most of Hannibal, but have seen all the on-screen adaptations. Obviously this will predominately be for discussion on the newest adaptation, the Hannibal television series. It's without a doubt my most revered and loved version of both the incarnations of Hannibal and Will; it captures the tone and absolute foreboding throughout its macabre way of storytelling. It's a true shame that it isn't the hit that it could be, and quite frankly it stuns me that it isn't considering that it has many of the attributes of today's big TV hits.

Hopefully people will catch on and this show will go on to do great things for both the series itself and television story-telling. There hasn't been a show on that is quite like this one. It takes many cues from other successful crime shows, but makes those things it's own.

I digress, the butt-munching is done. Let the therapy commence!

The most recent episode had me reeling in terms of Will's recent...revelation. It was pretty shocking to me and I quite literally had my jaw agape as the episode ended. I never expected Will to go this far, and I question whether the veil isn't purposefully being pulled over the viewers eyes. It's a drastic change from the normal Will persona, both in and out of the television show; but I have to admit that I remember very little from the books so perhaps this is cannon. I don't think it is though, and even so, the way things went down in the show itself lead me to believe there is at least something the viewers aren't being shown.

They didn't show Will actually killing or doing anything to Freddie other than pulling a chunk of hair out ( :lol ) and I find that pretty odd considering the artistic, detailed nature in which they've shown kills so far. There's something missing form this puzzle, and I can't wait to see the finished product. I just hope they have more seasons to expand upon it, considering we're nearing the climax of this crazy cat and mouse game Hannibal has so perfectly set up.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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From the TV Thread:

Hannibal Watchers:

  I dont' recall from any of the previous encarnations of Will Graham him being a murderer? I knew he was psychologically traumatized by Hannibal and even severely injured....but the recent murders that Will committed lends itself to him being a bit more sinister this time around.

 Unless he and Jack have somehow fabricated those murders in order to gain the ability for Will to 'get closer' to Hannibal.....almost team up with them. I mean, it was only implied that the meat they were eating was the reporter.....they never actually showed him kill her. And, Will asked her to remain calm and he could explain. Maybe the murders were 'faked'? I don't know. It just seems odd that his character is suddenly 'becoming' this murderer. I've never read the books....but I've seen every movie....even the original Red Dragon with William Peterson and Graham was never depicted in this nature. Not that it doesn't make things that much more interesting.....because it does.....just curious as to other opinions on the matter.

I don't think he's killed Freddie....or that he killed the animal guy. I think it's all a part of he and Jack's "You hook em' and I'll reel him in" scheme......
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Offline TioJorge

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Was just about to quote that in my post! I think that's a wonderful explanation and quite possibly what could be happening here. The ice-fishing scene was clearly pretty heavy on the alluding to something, but until now it hasn't been apparent what...and now that it's come to pass I think you're spot on.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Was just about to quote that in my post! I think that's a wonderful explanation and quite possibly what could be happening here. The ice-fishing scene was clearly pretty heavy on the alluding to something, but until now it hasn't been apparent what...and now that it's come to pass I think you're spot on.

Now, if that's not what's going on and Will has indeed turned into a psychopathic murderer as well......I mean, it seems to me that would be a major deviation from how his character has been portrayed in book and in all the other TV/Film adaptations. Right? I've not read the books but as I said in the TV thread I've seen all the movie adaptations and that'd be a pretty major change of character IMO.
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Offline TioJorge

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Definitely. I mean, this is still all very, very different from the book; all of this is loosely based on the characters of Red Dragon and that is pretty much it. In terms of timeline, none of this happened in Red Dragon, this is all still 'prequel' territory, leading up to the events of Red Dragon. Based on that alone, I'm pretty sure that you're right, but it'd be extremely interesting if Will was going down a much darker path and almost what I hope, so that he can crawl back out again.

Then again that's obviously already been done, just not as drastically; and it'd kind of be a retreading of him crawling out of the insanity. He's clear-headed and seems to know exactly what he is and what Hannibal is and how to get him caught...but these recent events might allude to that he's going to do it in the only way he knows how: To be worse than Hannibal.

I think that'd be awesome but again...it's a far cry away from what Will is 'supposed to be'. Again though, this is all the show's own way of telling the story, Red Dragon just supplies the characters at this point; so they're free to change whatever characters they want (hell, in the book/Norton movie, Freddie is a man  :lol ).

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Offline gmillerdrake

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(hell, in the book/Norton movie, Freddie is a man  :lol ).

I prefer this Freddie.....she's smokin' hot!

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Offline Phoenix87x

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Its about time this got is own thread, it certainly deserves it. And this will probably be one of my favorite threads, I since I'm absolutely assburgers obsessed with anything Hannibal Lector/Silence of the lambs/Red Dragon.

I love this show. Oh my god. And I'm dying to see where it goes.

I don't think Will actually killed Freddie, but detaining her or something is probably part of his overall plan to bring down Hannibal. We shall see though.

Offline TempusVox

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As I stated in the TV thread, the plan for the story arc is a 7 season run. Initially, we were to see all "prequel" stuff in season 1-3. Season 4 is supposed to be Red Dragon; and Season 5 will be Silence of the Lambs. Season 6 Hannibal; and then finally Season 7 will be a n all new wrap-up to the story line. There is concern that NBC may axe the series after this season concludes. Typically, once a series gets to it's thrid season, it pretty much is a lock to run as long as it wants too. So, the timing will be critical. The ONLY bad thing about this show is that it's on network TV. Contrary to what people might think, the majority of the TV watching public does not watch or support network television programming. That and the fact that many of those idiots who do have been complaining about the graphic nature of the show, and many affiliates are pushing it be dropped. That would be tragic IMO. This is one of the best shows to be on television in a long, long time. Even though we know the stories by Harris, and have seen the films, this show is still fresh, and bad assed. The writing is superb and the cast has been nothing short of excellent. I can count on one hand the number of shows in the last ten years where at the conclusion of each episode, I think to myself, "FUUUUUCK! Now I have to wait another Goddamn week to see the next one!" This is a superb show, and I realllllly, really hope it gets it's run.

As for the Freddy Lounds arc, I too think that Will is trying to set Hannibal up by making him think he's killing. But who knows, I'm sure we'll see that all unravel and come to fruition if it gets to season 3.
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Offline TioJorge

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Indeed, TV, it'd be a sight to behold if it got the seven season run it's intended to be. I'd love it if the show was able to make an entirely perfected 'universe' of these stories and entwine them. That's the only thing missing. I really don't know why this show was on network television to begin with and am consistently stunned by what they're able to get away with; it'd just be nice to have it in its unhindered glory. Apart of me shudders to think what they'd do on AMC or even HBO (I truly think that this show is good enough to be on HBO, and worth it).

I'm hoping that it gets renewed, but even so, I really think any TV higher ups would be absolutely moronic if someone didn't jump on this; preferably the premium channels. Provided that it comes to fruition, I'll smile myself once I see Clarice and Will on the same screen together, if they keep him on and change up the continuity a bit (which shouldn't be a problem).
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 04:24:36 PM by TioJorge »

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Forgot to ask this.....on the last episode just before the scene where Freddie shows up at Wills house.....there was a quick cut to a scene that was only about three or four seconds.....it was Hannibal sitting in his clear plastic killing outfit in a room, maybe a hotel room.....but it was a room with a bed. And then they never really addressed anything after that.

 Anyone have a guess or know who's room he was in or who he was about to murder?
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Offline Phoenix87x

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It was Freddie's Hotel room. If she hadn't have went to interview Will first, then Hannibal would have claimed her.

Offline gmillerdrake

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It was Freddie's Hotel room. If she hadn't have went to interview Will first, then Hannibal would have claimed her.

Interesting. Thanks...
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Offline TioJorge

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Ah I totally forgot about that! Damn...that is interesting. Pretty vital evidence for the 'Will is actually playing Hannibal' side.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Ah I totally forgot about that! Damn...that is interesting. Pretty vital evidence for the 'Will is actually playing Hannibal' side.

It was Freddie's Hotel room. If she hadn't have went to interview Will first, then Hannibal would have claimed her.

Wasn't that on the heels of the dinner where Alana mentioned how curious Freddie had been with her about the extent of the Hannibal/Will relationship? I guess Hannibal reached his limit with her and wanted to silence her once and for all.

This leads me to believe she's still alive even more....probably in FBI protection somewhere. Besides.....haven't they aired previews of a wheelchair on fire flying down a ramp? Wasn't that 'Freddie' in the other movie renditions of the story? Maybe Hannibal will still get his chance to take her out.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Indeed that was Freddie in the wheelchair, complements of the Tooth-fairy, as it was shown in Red Dragon/Manhunter. So I'm very curious how this is going to play out. I'm actually digging the shows diversions from the films overall. Keeps it interesting.

And I'm honestly surprised Hannibal didn't off her the first day he met her, considering she burst right into his house like it was no big deal and he even used the words "that was very rude Ms. Lounds"

Offline TioJorge

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Yes, Phoenix! I was shocked she wasn't killed earlier! On the topic of the wheelchair...the prop department either did an absolutely horrible job on creating a 'fake Freddie', or the show is using it in an entirely different way (either connected or unconnected to Freddie) than the source. I'm betting on the latter considering that even in that 1-second clip we see of the chair, that most definitely is not a female in the chair, even if it is burnt to a crisp, just the general perimeter of the person is much larger than this show's Freddie. But it's awesome that they included this scene at all, I had honestly completely forgot about it given that the show is almost entirely deviant from the book in every way possible.

But that was one hell of a preview. I actually hadn't seen it till you mentioned it, g-man. I buy these on iTunes since I don't own a TV and thus sometimes forget to watch the previews since they aren't included in the iTunes eps. I forgot this time.  :lol But that was awesome, very well done preview, I can't wait!!!!

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Offline Phoenix87x

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FUCK YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/09/hannibal-renewed-season-3/

Ladies and gentleman, madmen and misfits, dear Doctors and Avid fans, WE HAVE A SEASON 3!!!

Offline gmillerdrake

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:clap: Well done NBC
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Offline TioJorge

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DIIIIITTTOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

WOOT! HANNIBITES REJOICE!

I haven't seen tonight's episode but I will either later tonight or tomorrow. That is SO good to hear though.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Well that didn't take long to prove the theory of Will not killing Freddie, that it was a set up....to come to pass. I love how they moved it right along.

I guess it's cinimentography....but the shots they use when Will and Hannibal are speaking....making Hannibals eyes jet black with that speck of white gleen....things like that are what I love about the show, and you know it's intentional.

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Offline TempusVox

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Excellent news on Season 3.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Excellent news on Season 3.

It's refreshing to know that they renewed Hannibal but cancelled Revolution despite Revolution pulling "better numbers".

I watch Revolution as well....but I'm escstatic they chose to ax it in lieu of Hannibal.
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Offline TioJorge

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Beautiful episode, I especially loved the moments of Shiva encompassing Hannibal's 'shadow', and the birth of the shadow of Will. It was pretty obvious what was going on with Freddie, so I'm glad they didn't drag it out. Also can't wait to see Mason mutilated, that little shit is the most despicable thing on the show. That's saying a lot considering.  :lol

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Offline Phoenix87x

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This show just keeps getting better and better.

But literally for the first time I was offput by what I saw. I seriously had to look away when Verger was with the kid. I knew it was coming, but its still really just awful. Murder and mayham is all good and fun, but Verger... ugh. Even Hannibal had a look of disgust on his face during therapy.

And the whole forced abortion/sterilization of Margot. Verger has now become the ugliest character on the show and I can't wait for hannibal to remodel his face to reflect this trait.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Holy cow what a great episode! What Hannibal did to Mason was absolutely disgusting....feeding himself to Will's dogs and enjoying it!? WTF!! This show is so well done....

I'm curious as to if the assertion that Hannibals Psychologist, Dr. Bedelia?, if what she said about Hannibal was true. That he probably actually knows what Will and Jack are up to? You kind of get the feeling he does and maybe just doesn't care? Or, have Will and Jack done a good enough job hiding it? But the 'theme' of the dinner he served Jack of the fish not knowing who is chasing who was convincing enough for me to think that maybe Hannibal does know and he really just enjoys it.
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Offline TioJorge

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God DAMN I love this show! Every time I think I've seen the best, they crush it and redefine the meaning of shock and awe. I'm tired as hell and have to be up in a few hours so...tomorrow, I'll rewatch and repost. But this was one hell of an amazing feat by the creators...I cannot believe they showed it. When Mason initially took the drug and Hannibal told Mason, "No, I want you to show me on yourself" (or something to that extent), and then it ended the scene, I thought that'd be it. Then Will shows up and it's one of the few times I had my jaw agape for a few seconds without realizing it. SO AWESOME WRITING WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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Offline Phoenix87x

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So I went back and watched Manhunter and absolutely loved it. The style, the subtlety, the soundtrack. Just loved every minute of. Red Dragon on the other hand... Brett Ratner's baby, is something I just could never get into. 

  VS. 


I'm curious how you guys feel about the two versions?

Offline TioJorge

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I'm the opposite. I should note that I saw Red Dragon first, but still enjoyed Manhunter, just...couldn't 'get into it', I didn't really feel anything for it other than some fading intrigue. Also Ralph Fiennes is my baby daddy and Ed Norton is my jam.

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Offline Phoenix87x

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OK, time out. Hannibal is now quoting Mason Verger... cmon.

"when the fox hears the rabbit scream, he comes a running, but not to help"

Directly from verger in Hannibal, now coming out of Hannibal's mouth. Up to this point, I didn't really mind the random quoting of the films/books, but I'm calling shenanigans on that.

Only 5 minutes into the finale. Probably will have more to report soon.

So glad they mentioned the memory palace. I'm currently researching them and not only do I find them delightfully fascinating, but I would love to be able to utilize them one day.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 03:49:05 AM by Phoenix87x »

Offline BlackInk

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Since I don't want any possible book spoilers or "mythos" spoilers beyond the point of the show I won't read anything else here in this thread. I'll only drop in to say that the season 2 finale was absolutely incredible. Hannibal has officially taken the spot as my second favorite TV show, surpassing both Breaking Bad and Sherlock.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Thoughts on the Finale

Bloom is a dumb bitch and got what she deserved. The guy doesn't know you brought extra bullets and rather than use the element of surprise, you shout out "HEY, I've got more bullets, please take cover and then come kill me" And seriously, you don't even check if you gun is loaded before going over the serial killer's house. God I hate her.

A lot of build up to the final showdown in this episode. Too much in my opinion, but the final showdown was pretty damn sweet though.

I guess all of season 3 will be the Hunt of Hannibal, which I don't even know how I feel about. Gonna have to really think about this.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 03:00:15 PM by Phoenix87x »

Offline TempusVox

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Yeah...I almost felt like the finale was too much overkill (sic). We're led to believe that this is a retelling of the stories with a great deal of foreground added into the arc; but this was almost too much. In the original books Will was gravely injured by Hannibal when Will captured him. Well he didn't quite capture him during the finale. I guess were just going to get a loose interpretation during this retelling. Whats next? We'll meet Carl Starling instead of Clarice? Great show, but too much departure and I think a lot of people could lose interest. Still...I can't wait for next season. I love this show.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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I couldn't agree more TV.

Its like here's Brian Fuller's guide to writing Hannibal 101:

Step 1- Take random character from the cannon

Step 2- Gender swap them

Step 3- Have random character A recite Random character B's dialogue from cannon. Completely out of context, btw.

It has strayed too far in my opinion. Too many liberties with the cannon and they are fast forwarding through everything. The whole verger thing was too rushed and sloppy. I didn't know that if you were rich, you could just blatantly murder FBI agents and prominent psychiatrists. The whole dynamic was different in Hannibal (film) at that point Hannibal was an out-ed murderer and killing him and covering it up is feasible. But just to randomly kill your therapist for the lol's. Come on.

And the whole Freddie lounds on fire thing was such bullshit. The red dragon set him on fire because the use of flame as a weapon fits the MO of a "Red Dragon". Now that kick ass, incredible moment of the Red dragon saga has been used up. Its gone. Randomly thrown away just like all the other random canon stuff on this show. I just don't get it.

 I love the franchise, but I don't know how I feel about this show.

And anybody who didn't watch until after the credits, make sure you watch until after the credits.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 04:18:50 PM by Phoenix87x »

Offline gmillerdrake

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SOB Phoenix....I already deleted and didn't watch after the credits. Can you small font what happened for me?

BTW I loved the finale but agree that Alana was an idiot for not checking her weapon before she entered the home.

Was a bit like 'whatever' when Abigal was revealed to be alive. It's like...where does Lectar get l this time to keep girls prisoner and continually brain way them....make those fly fishing deals to set up Will...construct elaborate murder scenes....draw beautiful drawings...compose music....keep detailed diaries....cook elaborate meals....oh and, be a psychologist with patients?

Anyway....I love the show a lot but am interested in how they are going to approach next season, and who out of all the dying people in Hannibals house will live?
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Offline Phoenix87x

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GDM, I did the same damn thing first time through. I saw clouds and credits and was like "ok, I guess its over" but no...

Rather than just spell it out and ruin the surprise, I'll let you just see it for yourself. NBC put it on Hulu

https://www.hulu.com/watch/640095

It will let you just skip to the end, and then you will see...