Six Degrees (the song) vs Octavarium (the song)

[Dirty30]

A hard call. The songs are 1 and 1a in my rankings. Based on goosebump moments Six Degrees by a nose.

[yeah_93]

Octavarium is way more cohesive and flows better.

There you have my answer.

[Sacul]

Most of the song never repeats any themes from the Overture.

Mmnn... No. Overture is basically an instrumental rundown of the whole song.

[ReaPsTA]

8VM by the all of it. I like certain sections of SDOIT, but none more than DAT VARIUM

YEAH!  Love this post.

Most of the song never repeats any themes from the Overture.

Mmnn... No. Overture is basically an instrumental rundown of the whole song.

Unless my memory is completely wrong, the unique themes from TTTSTA, GK, and SS never appear in the Overture.  And the only themes from the Overture that occur in the rest of the song are the Losing Time opening melody, the Losing Time closing melody, and the War Inside My Head melody (EDIT: And the more sinister theme right before the WIMH theme).

Maybe that's not most of the song, but it's far less interwoven.

[BlobVanDam]

Most of the song never repeats any themes from the Overture.

Mmnn... No. Overture is basically an instrumental rundown of the whole song.

That, with some unique passages to bridge it all together. Every single song contains parts of the Overture except for Solitary Shell that I can think of.

[aprilethereal]

Octavarium for me and it's not even close.

[erwinrafael]

Most of the song never repeats any themes from the Overture.

Mmnn... No. Overture is basically an instrumental rundown of the whole song.

That, with some unique passages to bridge it all together. Every single song contains parts of the Overture except for Solitary Shell that I can think of.

The Solitary Shell bit in the Overture, based on my appreciation, is in the guitar-driven melody from 4:59 to around 5:07. The underlying chord progression (not the lead guitar melody) in that part is the same as the progression in "She's a Monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time." Which is why when you hum the guitar lead in that part, you can easily imagine that it will lead to "lost within himself in his solitary shell" (although the Overture did not go to that melodic direction).

On the topic of musical flow, the two songs are meant to flow differently. SDOIT is a story about different persons, which is why each movement is supposed to sound differently to highlight the differences in the personalities. Octavarium, on the other hand, is about going in circles, so there are a lot of reprises in the music.

I voted SDOIT.

[BlobVanDam]

Most of the song never repeats any themes from the Overture.

Mmnn... No. Overture is basically an instrumental rundown of the whole song.

That, with some unique passages to bridge it all together. Every single song contains parts of the Overture except for Solitary Shell that I can think of.

The Solitary Shell bit in the Overture, based on my appreciation, is in the guitar-driven melody from 4:59 to around 5:07. The underlying chord progression (not the lead guitar melody) in that part is the same as the progression in "She's a Monday morning lunatic, disturbed from time to time." Which is why when you hum the guitar lead in that part, you can easily imagine that it will lead to "lost within himself in his solitary shell" (although the Overture did not go to that melodic direction).

I'm not sure I'd ever noticed that one, and you're right.

[erwinrafael]

Unless my memory is completely wrong, the unique themes from TTTSTA, GK, and SS never appear in the Overture. 

The intro of TTSTA, the fast descending progression, is in the Overture. One of the main melodies of Overture is in the guitar solo of GK, around 3:43 in GK. for SS, I explained it in my reply to Blob.

[Lowdz]

6DoIT. Saved the whole album for me as disc 1 wasn't that great. I know others don't agree  .

Although I do like 8v, the whole Shine On You Crazy Diamond intro often puts me off listening to it.

[bl5150]

6DoIT. Saved the whole album for me as disc 1 wasn't that great. I know others don't agree  .

I do.

[Scorpion]

While Six Degrees lacks flow and is a bit of a chore to listen to in full, it has more moments I like than Octavarium does, so it gets my vote.

Though Octavarium is a chore to listen to as well.

[James Sucellus]

Neither make my Top 10 (which I'd make a thread for, but nobody would care), but they're both very solid Pink Floyd-meets-Supper's Ready tributes. My vote goes for Octavarium though, as it has the superior ending, and the landing is even more important than the take off.

A Change of Seasons kicks both in to the ground, for what it's worth. It's clearly a VERY personal, emotional song, instead of a tribute to bands Dream Theater like.

[Scorpion]

A Change of Seasons kicks both in to the ground, for what it's worth.

Yarp.

[BlobVanDam]

While Six Degrees lacks flow and is a bit of a chore to listen to in full, it has more moments I like than Octavarium does, so it gets my vote.

Though Octavarium is a chore to listen to as well.

Neither is even close to a chore to listen to.

[James Sucellus]

A Change of Seasons kicks both in to the ground, for what it's worth.

Yarp.

If DT were going to get in to heaven for one segment of music, Another World would be it.

[Scorpion]

I like your DT opinions.

[KevShmev]

If DT were going to get in to heaven for one segment of music, Another World would be it.

Strong post.

[?]

A Change of Seasons kicks both in to the ground, for what it's worth.

Yarp.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I voted Octavarium. I absolutely love both, but Octavarium is the only out of the two I view as one song. I understand why SDOIT transitions the way it does, but it's also the reason why I don't call it one song. I also prefer 8VM's theme over SDOIT's. Evertime I go to listen to SDOIT I feel as if I'm making myself sit through it, whereas I actively want to listen to 8VM more often.

I also enjoy every part of 8VM, which is something I can't say about SDOIT, thanks to Overture, GK, and LT/GF.

[OsMosis2259]

8VM 

[son_ov_hades]

Although I don't have any love for Disappear, Six Degrees gets my vote. I wish they had just released the title track as a full 40+ minute album, that would be my number 3 Dream Theater album. Octavarium is great as well and I have nothing bad to say abotu it though.

[aprilethereal]

Although I don't have any love for Disappear, Six Degrees gets my vote. I wish they had just released the title track as a full 40+ minute album, that would be my number 3 Dream Theater album. Octavarium is great as well and I have nothing bad to say abotu it though.

You realise this is about the songs, right?

[son_ov_hades]

Although I don't have any love for Disappear, Six Degrees gets my vote. I wish they had just released the title track as a full 40+ minute album, that would be my number 3 Dream Theater album. Octavarium is great as well and I have nothing bad to say abotu it though.

You realise this is about the songs, right?

It says all of disc 2, so that would include Disappear right?

[Bolsters]

It says all of disc 2, so that would include Disappear right?

[son_ov_hades]

I'm sitting here thinking I'm crazy so I pull out the record and sure enough Disappear is on the second LP. Then I look up what the CD is and now I understand!  Sorry I don't listen to CDs and don't even have any Dream Theater releases on the medium, it never occurred to me that the title track was all that's on the second CD.

[wolfking]

8VM.

Full Circle practically ruins the song (along with the little Jingle Bells reference).  6DOIT wins by default. 

How does a song win by default based on an opinion?

[ZirconBlue]

For example - You don't think that the character in Medicate Me was in a literal coma, do you?

Um, yes?   "Medicate Me" is basically a summary of the plot of the movie Awakenings.
 

On the topic of musical flow, the two songs are meant to flow differently. SDOIT is a story about different persons, which is why each movement is supposed to sound differently to highlight the differences in the personalities. Octavarium, on the other hand, is about going in circles, so there are a lot of reprises in the music.

Well, except that the music was written first.  So, the lyrical stories have little bearing on how the music was composed.  Especially SDOIT, which basically started as the Overture, then was expended from there.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Octavarium, because it works better as a singular piece of music. Not that the individual chunks of Six Degrees aren't fantastic in themselves.

[GasparXR]

Here's a conversation I don't remember us having.

It's interesting because most days I would say Octavarium, but when talking about the two in another thread recently, I realized that 6DOIT has more "Holy shit, this is awesome" moments than Octavarium.  On the flip side, Octavarium is way more cohesive and flows better.  But, while many rave over the Razor's Edge finish, and it is pretty fantastic, I actually prefer the Losing Time/Grand Finale section (not counting that unnecessary long fadeout of the last note). 

So for now, I will give the very slight edge to Six Degrees.  But it's oh so close.

Pretty much my opinion right there. I love both, but the edge goes to SDOIT, at least right now. I don't mind the fade-out though, I usually listen to it while sitting/laying down and I find it really quite relaxing.

[robwebster]

Hey - I never answered the thread question!

I voted Octavarium, but also realised I'd never particularly thought about it. It's almost apples and oranges, for me. Octavarium is a single, clear journey - an A to B epic. While I respect that the band composed Six Degrees as a single song, they also decided to index it separately so you could listen to the individual tracks on their own, so it's sort of up to the listener. It's my head, it's in a weird space where it's either quite a long, scattergun song, or it's a super-cohesive album, and I tend to prefer the latter. The latter makes more sense to me. Makes it more than an album, instead of less than a song.

Basically, I don't know what Six Degrees is - but I think, if you had to tease an answer out of me, I'd say it's whatever The Incident is! The Incident's the only thing I can think of that's even slightly similar, but it's very similar, right up to the anthology of unrelated tracks on the opposite disc.  That's good, though. New forms of musical storytelling are good, they're to be encouraged, and I love that DT beat Steven Wilson to the punch on this one, but it never really occurs to me to pop SDoIT in the same bracket as A Change of Seasons, Octavarium or Illumination Theory.

[KevShmev]

That's funny that you say that today, GasparXR, because I listened to all of Octavarium on a drive over the weekend and was reminded of how great it it as a whole when listened to from start to finish.  I cannot say that about 6DOIT, even if it does have many great moments (see: songs).  Octavarium is an effortless listen, like TCOT and ACOS.  6DOIT is work for me to get through, and not just because of its length.

[TheGreatPretender]

That's funny that you say that today, GasparXR, because I listened to all of Octavarium on a drive over the weekend and was reminded of how great it it as a whole when listened to from start to finish.  I cannot say that about 6DOIT, even if it does have many great moments (see: songs).  Octavarium is an effortless listen, like TCOT and ACOS.  6DOIT is work for me to get through, and not just because of its length.

We probably have different reasons for this, but I agree.

[James Sucellus]

The overture is too long, but from About to Crash onwards, the time flies by for me. A series of really catchy tunes.

[ReaPsTA]

Um, yes?   "Medicate Me" is basically a summary of the plot of the movie Awakenings.

On one hand, reading the plot summary of Awakenings on Wikipedia makes it hard to disagree.  But to me, it's the least interesting interpretation.

I look at it as the character from Someone Like Him and Medicate Me are the same person.  He looks at a person (probably his dad) and says that's who I don't want to be.  But over the course of his life, as shown in SLH, his mentality slowly changes until all the sudden he's exactly the kind of half-alive he didn't want to be, except he loves it.

Medicate Me is the character finally realizing what happened in his life, and trying to deal with it with psychiatric medication.  The catatonic sleep is a metaphor for what his life was like, and now he's trying to change it.  But the drugs don't work, and he descends into insanity because his brain is breaking psychologically (portrayed in Full Circle).

If nothing else, the song is meant to be digested as a whole.  So looking at the lyrics as disconnected vignettes seems inadvisable.