What would it take for you to move to a very foreign country?

[Dr. DTVT]

I am going to test the job market waters, and in looking around there are a couple of positions that are quite different than the rest.  Amongst the hundred or so positions posted in the US (and 2 in Canada not in my field), there are positions at Saudi Arabia and Dubai.  They seem to be posted every year, so either people aren't sticking it out, or they are rolling positions.  They pay much better than US positions, and they say they are tax free (I'm sure Uncle Sam would still want his cut, but the home country isn't taking a cut).  I'm not even considering them, even though I really could use a big pay day for a year or two to cut into some of my debt.  What I want to know is what it would take for you to go to relocate to a country where you wouldn't know anyone, don't speak the language, no ties to that land's culture, where you would be completely alien.  The upshot is that you are doing the job you want to do.  For most of us, that means no US, Europe, and probably even S. American countries.

I think I'd set my threshold at $200,000.  I'd love to see the world, and that much money would be enough of an incentive for me to sell/store my belongings here in the US and be a fish out of water for a year or two. 

[JayOctavarium]

My coworker's sister works in Dubai and even though she doesn't do anything like teaching or what not... she apparently makes bank.

[rickhawk80]

I did some time in China for my company last year.  Before going I would've said I could never do an extended tour of duty there, but after spending a month there I'd willingly go back for longer -- that is, a year or two -- but there would need to be a light at the end of the tunnel.  I mean, while China is more open to Western business now it is still a Communist country with major issues where the overwhelming majority of the population speaks no English whatsoever.  But it was a refreshing jolt to my American senses -- I felt for the first time what it's like to be a minority, so to speak, in a land where I could go a whole day without speaking English because no one else spoke it and where I stood out because I looked nothing like anyone around me.

I can also tell you that Americans easily fall into the idea that the world revolves around the United States -- no way.  No one in China could give a flying fuck about the United States and I could go days without hearing any news about the US unless I went searching for it.

Some of what I'm saying may seem like a deterrent to taking such an assignment, but believe me, it will be a lasting experience and forever change your view of the world and your understanding of how the world views you.   

[rumborak]

Here's my 2 cents: I've lived for 13 years in the US now (originally from Germany), I've stayed for 9 weeks in Israel at some point, and have spent a month in India, and 3 weeks each in China and Japan. And I can say: You definitely want to stay in a foreign country for a while if you have the chance to do so. I vividly remember remember after the 9 weeks in Israel, which was my first real leaving of Germany, you come back and realize that you've changed. For the better. You acquire "worldsmanship", and that will stay with your for the rest of your life.

That said, I sadly have to give some warning about Dubai and Saudi Arabia, or rather, Middle East in general (excluding Israel). I have 3 data points: Myself because I spent some time in Jordan as well, and a coworker actually grew up in Saudi Arabia for a while (because his dad was in the US army), and the other guy spent some time there because he is a chemist for Exxon. Sadly, our unanimous notion was that they're really not that great places to live in. Both of the guys told me that they essentially lived in a bubble; they had an apartment in the gated and protected "foreigner compound", and they would go to foreigner clubs and foreigner restaurants. My time in Jordan was actually the worst of the 6 months I traveled. Every other country around the world I stayed at for at least 3 weeks, including shit-smelling, muggy India, but I stayed 1.5 weeks in Jordan and called it a day. I found it oppressive really (the burkas!).
My suggestion: Asia. I looooooved the 3 weeks that I was in China, same for Japan. The people there are quite open and friendly, and genuinely interested in you (the Chinese especially, the Japanese are more reserved).
EDIT: If you have the chance to go to Israel, do it. Great country, great people. Big boobs.

[El Barto]

Depends on the country. There's no salary you could pay me to go to Dubai or Saudi, even for a short vacation. I'd pay for the opportunity to work in some European countries. Asia would be rough, but I'm enough of a loner that I'd manage alright. I deal well enough with culture shock, but it's only been when it's short duration. The first few weeks of being in Japan or China and knowing that you're there for 2 years would be really harsh. With that in mind I'd want enough salary to live well and bank some too.South America would be the easiest of the lot. I'd enjoy the experience, wouldn't have a hard time adapting, and could probably live quite well for cheap. Wouldn't take a whole lot to lure me down there (which is odd since I really don't have much of an interest in visiting the place). Like I said (and Rumbo earlier) the experience is worth a great deal.

My sister (kidney girl) spent a couple of years being a starving artist in Oaxaca, and a couple of years teaching English in Japan. She loved both experiences and wouldn't trade them for anything. I have another relation that spent 1 year teaching in Korea and couldn't wait to come back. Just wired differently. A dear friend of mine spent a year dancing in Japan, and didn't have much to say about the experience at all (other than her red hair insuring that Japanese people were in constant fear of her  ). I guess the point is some love it, some hate it, and some just don't give a shit. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out what sort you are before hand.

[TempusVox]

While growing up, I lived in Berlin for three years. My father was an officer stationed there. Best experience ever. I believe that far to few Americans travel internationally. I think everyone should have that experience. I travel as often as I can with my family, and recently considered (and still might next year), buying property in Scotland. And I've spent a few months at a stretch at different times in Aus, NZ, France and the UK.

For me to become an ex pat would be really quite simple, as I can write anywhere; but for me now, I'd want to live in an English speaking country, or one where English was widely accepted.

[Dr. DTVT]

I'm not even applying for those jobs.  One of the biggest problems with my current position isn't the job itself, I love the school I'm at, it is that I feel isolated in the rural South and I'm a very social person - so taking a job that would isolate me further is not an option in my mind unless the pot was really sweetened.  I'd love to travel, but I know that those Middle East jobs would drive me mad within a few months.  This was more of a "everybody has their price" threads and I came up with my price when discussing this with someone who knows I am looking for a new locale.

[Kotowboy]

Absolutely nothing. A passport.

I'm not proud of being English and I actually hate the UK.

[Perpetual Change]

Being single, really.

I loved the two years I lived in Hong Kong. But now that I'm married, there's a lot of concerns you have to coordinate with others before deciding to pack it up and go.

[rickhawk80]

I believe that far to few Americans travel internationally. I think everyone should have that experience.

Tempus, I read an article not long ago that said only about one-third of Americans will ever have a passport in their lifetime.     That was an astoundingly low number to me, and certainly any European on here would think that's insane with how easy it is to country hop over there.  I'd hate to be part of that two-thirds of Americans who never travels abroad in their lifetimes --  so many missed experiences.

[Nekov]

Well, I would do it if I was doing something I like, if the country I'm going to is better than the one I'm in and if they're paying me more money. I doubt I would go to any country where I don't speak even a little of their language (it would be a great opportunity to learn a new one though).
Of course I'd miss my family and friends but given how good technology is these days I don't think it would be that hard. In the past years my dad lived in Bahrain, Singapore and India while my mom, my brothers and me stayed here and to be honest it was good for us because it strengthened our relationships. Plus he had deals where the company he was working for would pay for trips for him to come here or for me and my family to go visit him (I got a free trip to England  ).
The chance to get to know another culture and meet new people is always very interesting for me but I know not everyone is like that. You need to balance how much you'd like to discover new things and how much you'd like to stay comfortable with what you have right now.

[Cool Chris]

But now that I'm married, there's a lot of concerns you have to coordinate with others before deciding to pack it up and go.

I didn't have any desire to live outside the US when I was single, and yes being married adds so many other variables to the equation. I would not want my parents and my daughter to be so far apart to that they would rarely see each other.

I have many regrets in my life (and I am not even 40 yet!) but not traveling outside the US isn't very high on that list. I've never had the money, and have always been trying to get my life in order here. And being away form my parents would be too hard because they have been so supportive in my down times. And yes I do not react to change well  /wussy

[Modah]

I guess just a guarantee that I would never be forced to go back to America.

[Tick]

I have absolutely zero interest in living outside the U.S. I would not go without my wife and daughter for sure and I would not want to move my daughter to a foreign country so no. Not for me.
Of course if my back was against the wall and this would keep us afloat and comfortable I would change my sentiment. Life is about survival.

[Dr. DTVT]

I believe that far to few Americans travel internationally. I think everyone should have that experience.

Tempus, I read an article not long ago that said only about one-third of Americans will ever have a passport in their lifetime.     That was an astoundingly low number to me, and certainly any European on here would think that's insane with how easy it is to country hop over there.  I'd hate to be part of that two-thirds of Americans who never travels abroad in their lifetimes --  so many missed experiences.

You have to think about how many of families can afford to travel.  From the US, most destinations require air travel.  Most of Europe doesn't have that problem, when we think about driving across state borders, they can easily go across national borders.  Hell, I can't afford to travel and I have a decent job.

[bosk1]

I believe that far to few Americans travel internationally. I think everyone should have that experience.

Tempus, I read an article not long ago that said only about one-third of Americans will ever have a passport in their lifetime.     That was an astoundingly low number to me, and certainly any European on here would think that's insane with how easy it is to country hop over there.  I'd hate to be part of that two-thirds of Americans who never travels abroad in their lifetimes --  so many missed experiences.

I disagree.  I have traveled abroad and mostly enjoyed my experiences.  But while I feel they were great personal experiences for me, I recognize that it isn't for everybody, and certainly isn't something I would consider necessary for anyone.  And the flip side to that is that while there are many unique experiences that cannot be had at home, there are also more experiences that one can have right at home than one could possibly experience in a lifetime. 

As far as what it would take for me personally to live abroad on a permanent or temporary basis, I'm not really sure.  It would depend on so many variables that it is hard to answer.  I will say, however, that it would take a lot more now than it would have before I was married and had children.  But it would also depend heavily on where.  That is the biggest factor.  Given that my wife is native Chinese, parts of China would not be too much of a hard sell, even now with the kids.

[El Barto]

I believe that far to few Americans travel internationally. I think everyone should have that experience.

Tempus, I read an article not long ago that said only about one-third of Americans will ever have a passport in their lifetime.     That was an astoundingly low number to me, and certainly any European on here would think that's insane with how easy it is to country hop over there.  I'd hate to be part of that two-thirds of Americans who never travels abroad in their lifetimes --  so many missed experiences.

I disagree.  I have traveled abroad and mostly enjoyed my experiences.  But while I feel they were great personal experiences for me, I recognize that it isn't for everybody, and certainly isn't something I would consider necessary for anyone.  And the flip side to that is that while there are many unique experiences that cannot be had at home, there are also more experiences that one can have right at home than one could possibly experience in a lifetime.

While this is absolutely correct, I agree with RH80 that it's a real shame. I consider an interest in traveling abroad a function of intellectual curiosity. Plenty of people here lack that quality and it disappoints me. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

"President Sarah Palin".

[bosk1]

"President Sarah Palin".

Are you hitting on me?

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

[the Catfishman]

I'm from the Netherlands but I'm currently living in Switzerland since 1.5 years and have also lived in England for 7 months before that, it's not exactly like moving from the US to Dubai but yeah..  like most people ITT I would recommend it if you are already thinking about it, personally I would do it again in a heartbeat.
A benefit for me is that I went to both places together with my girlfriend so I didn't have to choose between family and work. Both of us are doing our PhD here so we will be busy for the next few years, but we are already discussing what to do next, we are looking to 'settle' down somewhere (with kids and all) so that makes our next move a bit more substantial, it's likely that we won't return to the Netherlands but instead we are thinking about the UK, Denmark or staying in Switzerland.

The part I liked most about moving to a new country was that it felt like a sort of 'reboot', you are suddenly surrounded by a new language, culture, food and mentality which felt very refreshing. Even though I never really tried to escape a previous situation it felt good to start somewhere from scratch and not be hindered by previous experiences, I guess it's easier to change for the better in such an environment.

[rumborak]

I believe that far to few Americans travel internationally. I think everyone should have that experience.

Tempus, I read an article not long ago that said only about one-third of Americans will ever have a passport in their lifetime.     That was an astoundingly low number to me, and certainly any European on here would think that's insane with how easy it is to country hop over there.  I'd hate to be part of that two-thirds of Americans who never travels abroad in their lifetimes --  so many missed experiences.

I disagree.  I have traveled abroad and mostly enjoyed my experiences.  But while I feel they were great personal experiences for me, I recognize that it isn't for everybody, and certainly isn't something I would consider necessary for anyone.  And the flip side to that is that while there are many unique experiences that cannot be had at home, there are also more experiences that one can have right at home than one could possibly experience in a lifetime.

While this is absolutely correct, I agree with RH80 that it's a real shame. I consider an interest in traveling abroad a function of intellectual curiosity. Plenty of people here lack that quality and it disappoints me.

Yeah, I agree. Of course, bosk, the US is huge and has a shit-ton to offer in terms of landscape, and indeed I agree that one should first explore what's in front of one's doorstep before venturing out. But, different countries  ... are different countries. There is just no substitute to the mind-blown experience you get when you see people living *completely* different from what you considered the only way of "normal living", and yet they're perfectly content and have no desire to live like you.
An example, Westerners always think the independence they have, living in their own apartment etc. is what every person secretly wishes for. And then you talk to someone say, in the Middle East, and they will say to you "oh, that sounds ... very lonely. We have the whole family together in one place, from grandma to grandchild, it's one big unit. I would not want to miss that."

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, at the very least, spending some time living abroad can broaden perspectives in a way that's impossible to replicate at home.

I think anyone who can afford to do so should while they're still a student, or right after graduating. Afterwards, as many people here have pointed out, there are way too many other factors that just make it impossible.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Hell, just from spending one day in Bermuda, I was like "Yep, I'm ready to move here.  If I have to live on a houseboat, then so be it.  All the better, actually."

[bosk1]

I think anyone who can afford to do so should while they're still a student, or right after graduating. Afterwards, as many people here have pointed out, there are way too many other factors that just make it impossible.

Actually, IMO, when you can't really afford to do it might be the best time in some ways.  When you don't have the money to do anything but stay in the least expensive places and do all the expensive touristy things, you tend to experience the everyday culture more and see how people really live, IMO.  It's more tempting to travel like a tourist when you have money to be a tourist.  (and not that there's anything wrong with that either; it's just a different experience is all)

[kirksnosehair]

Personally, I can't envision any circumstances under which I'd want to move to and stay in a foreign country.   I'd love to go and visit quite a few places, and I certainly will do some traveling when I retire, but I'm very comfortable with and satisfied with my life here. 

[Nekov]

I think anyone who can afford to do so should while they're still a student, or right after graduating. Afterwards, as many people here have pointed out, there are way too many other factors that just make it impossible.

Actually, IMO, when you can't really afford to do it might be the best time in some ways.  When you don't have the money to do anything but stay in the least expensive places and do all the expensive touristy things, you tend to experience the everyday culture more and see how people really live, IMO.  It's more tempting to travel like a tourist when you have money to be a tourist.  (and not that there's anything wrong with that either; it's just a different experience is all)

Agreed. I went to Europe a couple years ago, stayed in hostels and didn't use public transportation (except when really needed like going to/from airports) so I got to walk around every city I went to and really get to know places that I would have probably missed by just going to the most famous places and I met some very interesting people along the road.

[Perpetual Change]

I think anyone who can afford to do so should while they're still a student, or right after graduating. Afterwards, as many people here have pointed out, there are way too many other factors that just make it impossible.

Actually, IMO, when you can't really afford to do it might be the best time in some ways.  When you don't have the money to do anything but stay in the least expensive places and do all the expensive touristy things, you tend to experience the everyday culture more and see how people really live, IMO.  It's more tempting to travel like a tourist when you have money to be a tourist.  (and not that there's anything wrong with that either; it's just a different experience is all)

Agreed, which I think is the problem with a lot of high school / college kids and such who have parents nice enough to finance them studying abroad for a semester. I saw it in China regularly - all the Westerners getting together to go hang out in expat bars with eachother every night. It's really best to avoid that and try and interface mostly with the locals.

[rumborak]

There's definitely always a good percentage of people who just use the time abroad to party it out. I've definitely met a good share of Europeans who, after living in Boston for 2-3 years, left with the same stereotype in their head as when they came. That stuff makes me sad.

[El Barto]

Yeah, at the very least, spending some time living abroad can broaden perspectives in a way that's impossible to replicate at home.

I think anyone who can afford to do so should while they're still a student, or right after graduating. Afterwards, as many people here have pointed out, there are way too many other factors that just make it impossible.

Yeah, the grand tour is something that we've never picked up on, and it's a real shame. I don't know if it's still all that customary in Europe, but spending a semester or two roaming the world after graduation seems like a fantastic learning experience.

Another consideration in all of this is how you like to travel. I'm quite happy (moreso, in fact) traveling alone. Plenty of people can't stand that, and it'd change the way you did everything. I suspect that's the difference between the people who want to explore the culture, and the people who want to hang out in expat bars staying loaded all the time.

Now that I think about it, maybe the grand tour isn't such a good idea for Americans after all. 

[wolfking]

I have zero interest in travelling or moving out side Australia.  I think 1 million should do it, but only for a certain amount of time.

[King Postwhore]

Now that my life is entrenched where i live I would not move.  I wish I did so when I was single.  Now I've been to many countries on vacation which I love.  To see another culture and soak in the locals is what I truly love but to uproot now for a job with family growing up around me whould be heard now to deal with.


I do want to drink with locals everywhere I do visit.  Nothing better to meet people from other culture letting loose and talking to them uninhibited.

[Nekov]

I have zero interest in travelling or moving out side Australia.  I think 1 million should do it, but only for a certain amount of time.

Can't beat the adrenaline of living in a place where everything wants to kill you right?

[BlobVanDam]

I have zero interest in travelling or moving out side Australia.  I think 1 million should do it, but only for a certain amount of time.

Can't beat the adrenaline of living in a place where everything wants to kill you right?

Just today a flying walnut tried to attack me. Never seen one before. But seriously, it looked like a flying walnut, same size, and shape, and colour. Thank god it was on the other side of the window, because I'm pretty sure this thing is designed to fly down people's throats and either choke them to death, or hope they have a nut allergy.

[Nekov]