Author Topic: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion  (Read 4760 times)

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Offline The Letter M

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Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« on: January 22, 2014, 08:26:49 PM »
Hey folks and TA-fans, here's the mother-thread for all things related to my Transatlantic Survivor! With the release of their fourth album, Kaleidoscope, I've decided NOW would be a good time to do this Survivor, especially after having done survivors for Spock's Beard and Neal Morse (as well as Marillion in the past). I've been wanting to do this one for awhile now, especially after the announcement of the new album being made!

---- ---- ---- ----

SMPT:e
1. All Of The Above
2. My New World

3. We All Need Some Light
4. In Held ('Twas) In I
5. Mystery Train

---- ---- ---- ----

Bridge Across Forever
1. Duel With The Devil
2. Stranger In Your Soul

3. Suite Charlotte Pike
4. Bridge Across Forever

---- ---- ---- ----

The Whirlwind
1. Is It Really Happening?
2. Rose Colored Glasses
3. A Man Can Feel

4. On The Prowl
5. The Wind Blew Them All Away
6. Out Of The Night
7. Set Us Free
8. Evermore
9. Overture / Whirlwind
10. Lay Down Your Life
11. Pieces Of Heaven
12. Dancing With Eternal Glory / Whirlwind (Reprise)
13. Spinning
14. Lenny Johnson
15. Lending A Hand
16. For Such A Time

---- ---- ---- ----

Kaleidoscope
1. Into The Blue
    Kaleidoscope

3. Black As The Sky
4. Beyond The Sun
5. Shine

==== ==== ==== ====

Consolation
1. On The Prowl
2. Black As The Sky
3. We All Need Some Light
4. Suite Charlotte Pike

==== ==== ==== ====

Finals
1. Duel With The Devil
2. Stranger In Your Soul
3. All Of The Above
4. Kaleidoscope
5. Is It Really Happening?
6. Into The Blue
7. Rose Colored Glasses
8. A Man Can Feel
9. My New World
10. On The Prowl

---- ---- ---- ----

Covers

1. In Held ('Twas) In I
2. The Return Of The Giant Hogweed
3. Soul Sacrifice
4. Indiscipline
5. Shine On You Crazy Diamond
    Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
7. And You And I
8. Can't Get It Out Of My Head
    Nights In White Satin
10. Sylvia
11. Tin Soldier
12. Conquistador
13. A Salty Dog
14. And I Love Her (Jam)
      I Need You
16. Oh! Darilng (Jam)
17. Honky Tonk Women (Jam)
18. Smoke On The Water (Transpacific Jam)

I would like to ask you guys a few questions first before and I would like to gauge some opinions first:

1. For the first album, should I include "In Held ('Twas) In I"? It is a cover tune, and while it was on the debut album proper and not part of a Special Edition/Bonus Disc, it's not an original tune. Typically, I don't include cover tunes on album survivors, just original music from the band.

2. Conversely, The Whirlwind had four original songs on the 2nd disc, but to my knowledge, the standard edition of the album contained the 2nd disc, so should they be included with the album's survivor? They are four original tunes, and stand up with the rest of their discography, IMO, and personally I feel they should be included, but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

3. And speaking of that album, I'm gonna guess and say you all would like "The Whirlwind" to be presented as 12 tracks and not 1 song for the survivor, correct? I mean, weighing a 75-minute song against the rest of their discography COULD be a bit unfair.

I'll leave this open for discussion for a week or so, then I'll begin the Survivor proper with their debut album!

-Marc.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 11:14:53 PM by The Letter M »
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Offline Bolsters

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 08:29:52 PM »
I'm voting yes on all three of those.

Offline mellotron_scratch

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 12:48:33 AM »
1. Include it
2. Don't include them. The standard edition of the album didn't include the 2nd disc
3. Split it up

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 01:10:44 AM »
1. Include it. It's not like it's a bonus track or anything, so it fully deserves its place on that album's tournament.

2. Include them, because where else would you put them? In their own tournament? And as they are fully-fledged Transatlantic originals, they deserve a place in the Survivor. For fairness, survivors have to include every original song by the band in question, if that's possible.

3. Split it, again for fairness.

I'm wondering how many songs will progress to Consolation and Finals, especially on Bridge Across Forever. It only has four songs on it.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 09:29:21 AM »
1. Include it
2. Don't include them. The standard edition of the album didn't include the 2nd disc
3. Split it up

I did some research last night, and even though I couldn't find any pictures of the single disc edition of The Whirlwind, I did find that an import version does exist. I've just never seen it. I had always assumed that every basic version of the album included the 2nd disc. I guess the single disc version just didn't sell often - I mean, with all that extra material, who would've bought just the single disc version anyway? :lol

As for how I will handle the consolation for BAF, it will be the same as usual - Top 2 songs go to Finals, third place song goes to Consolation. I did the same for Neal Morse's Sola Scriptura and Spock's Beard's The Light, so I don't see the need to change it now. Sure, we all know the two epics will play 1st and 2nd, but I honestly don't know which song will place third! So we'll see...

ALSO - I was considering having a "Cover Songs" side survivor, which would include the covers from their newest album and their last album, and possibly the covers from the special editions from the first two albums ("Shine On You Crazy Diamond", "And I Love Her", "Smoke On The Water" by Transpacific, "Honky Tonk Woman", and "Oh! Darling", even though the latter four are all studio jams and not planned out full-on covers).

Thoughts on that?

-Marc.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 09:59:37 AM »
1. Include it
2. Include them.
3. Split it up
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 10:26:42 AM »
Who would've bought just the single disc version anyway?

I did.

1. It was there and I could afford it at the time.
2. I'm only really interested in the Album, not all this "bonus" malarkey. To me, The Whirlwind (the 78-minute piece) is The Album, the work of art they created and gave to the world.

And before anyone has a go, that's just me, how I see things.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 10:34:49 AM »
Who would've bought just the single disc version anyway?

I did.

1. It was there and I could afford it at the time.
2. I'm only really interested in the Album, not all this "bonus" malarkey. To me, The Whirlwind (the 78-minute piece) is The Album, the work of art they created and gave to the world.

Ahh I see. Is it a jewel case? I had actually been searching for the single disc version but never stumbled upon it. As odd as it sounds, at the time, I wanted an extra copy just to have around or keep in my car, one that didn't stay shelved for my collection.

Also, as far as "bonus malarkey", I will say that I did include Neal's "bonus" original songs from his One album during that Survivor, as well as the two originals on the bonus disc of Lifeline, and the 3 songs on the 2nd disc of Testimony 2, although in the case of the last example, I'm pretty certain all editions of the album came with that 2nd disc of songs and wouldn't be considered "bonus" material (like in the way that Porcupine Tree's The Incident had a 2nd disc of songs unrelated to the main song-cycle).

With all of that in mind, just for consistency's sake, I will probably include those four originals from The Whirlwind, if only because they wouldn't have anywhere else to go in this survivor and as good as some of them are, it would be a crime to leave them out entirely. And I can't see myself putting them in their own mini-survivor either. They were written/recorded at the same time as the rest of the main album, so why not include them?

-Marc.
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 01:12:14 PM »
I'm not really interested in a TA coversongs survivor. But I'd love to participate in a TA survivor, and furthermore, I'm really interested to see how Lenny Johnson (for example) holds up to say Set Us Free.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 01:22:11 PM »
I'm not really interested in a TA coversongs survivor. But I'd love to participate in a TA survivor, and furthermore, I'm really interested to see how Lenny Johnson (for example) holds up to say Set Us Free.

The songs from The Whirlwind will definitely be interesting to see how they stack up.

Also, I forgot to mention that each round will last 2 or 3 days (I haven't yet decided), which will be good for the first two albums as they have 5 songs or less. Doing this will mean the survivor will take as few as 44 days to get through the first three albums, which will hopefully be plenty of time for everyone to digest the new album coming out next week! By then, we'll have had 6-7 weeks to listen to it, in addition to going over the first three albums. This will carry the survivor to Mid-March!

-Marc.
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Offline mellotron_scratch

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 03:55:34 AM »
1. Include it
2. Don't include them. The standard edition of the album didn't include the 2nd disc
3. Split it up

I did some research last night, and even though I couldn't find any pictures of the single disc edition of The Whirlwind, I did find that an import version does exist. I've just never seen it. I had always assumed that every basic version of the album included the 2nd disc. I guess the single disc version just didn't sell often - I mean, with all that extra material, who would've bought just the single disc version anyway? :lol

As for how I will handle the consolation for BAF, it will be the same as usual - Top 2 songs go to Finals, third place song goes to Consolation. I did the same for Neal Morse's Sola Scriptura and Spock's Beard's The Light, so I don't see the need to change it now. Sure, we all know the two epics will play 1st and 2nd, but I honestly don't know which song will place third! So we'll see...

ALSO - I was considering having a "Cover Songs" side survivor, which would include the covers from their newest album and their last album, and possibly the covers from the special editions from the first two albums ("Shine On You Crazy Diamond", "And I Love Her", "Smoke On The Water" by Transpacific, "Honky Tonk Woman", and "Oh! Darling", even though the latter four are all studio jams and not planned out full-on covers).

Thoughts on that?

-Marc.

I got the single disc edition of The Whirlwind because it was a lot cheaper compared to the deluxe version (I think the deluxe was about double the price) in the store that I bought it from. The reason I suggested not to include them in the poll was because it just makes more sense to me to only include the 'properly released' (for lack of a better phrase) tracks, because TA has a wealth of rarities/bonus tracks that I think aren't really necessary to include. For example, if we were to include the 4 originals on the Whirlwind bonus disc, then why not include the covers? And then there's the bonus covers on BAF. And then there's Neal's TA demos. It makes sense to me to keep it simple and use their properly released songs, just my opinion.

And concerning having a survivor for cover songs, I don't really mind.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 04:12:20 AM »
1. Include it
2. Don't include them. The standard edition of the album didn't include the 2nd disc
3. Split it up

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 11:18:35 AM »
So far, the votes for including the bonus originals on The Whirlwind are one up on the votes to NOT include them.

I'll give it until the 28th before making my final decision so a few more days of input/discussion would be nice! Thanks!

-Marc.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 11:24:39 AM »
I don't mind them being included, but I dislike them, so expect me to vote them out as soon as possible. :p

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 11:42:13 AM »
I think the Whirlwind bonus songs should be included, and Disc 1 of that disc should obviously be broken up for the purposes of this, otherwise, what is the point?  Then again, Transatlantic has so few songs that you can almost predict how this will turn out, except for the order of the Whirlwind tracks.

Offline Bolsters

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 06:03:24 PM »
I don't mind them being included, but I dislike them, so expect me to vote them out as soon as possible. :p
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2014, 09:09:55 AM »
The Whirlwind will definitely be the most interesting and unpredicatable of the album tournaments.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2014, 11:09:21 AM »
The first round for the SMPT:e will begin today/tonight and will run for THREE DAYS, just to make sure everyone gets their votes in, and from there on out, it will be TWO-DAY ROUNDS.

As for my initial post's questions, I *will* be including "In Held ('Twas) In I" on the debut album, "The Whirlwind" will be presented in its 12 parts, and the four originals from that album will also be included (for a 16-song survivor for that album).

-Marc.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2014, 11:15:45 AM »
^Good... was just popping in to say only do the originals.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2014, 11:20:00 AM »
^Good... was just popping in to say only do the originals.

I thought about that, and I almost didn't want to include the debut's Procol Harum cover, but considering the band put their own twist on certain parts of the song and really made it their own, I figured "why not, it can't hurt to include it."

So with that in mind, if voters don't see it fit to be included, they can vote it out first! If you enjoy it as much as the other songs, then keep it in and vote for something else. It *IS* a survivor, after all! :tup

-Marc.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2014, 11:23:49 AM »
1.  Include it and let the voters decide its fate.
2.  Same as above. It's no different than including b-sides or anything else.  Let us decide the fate of the songs.
3.  Split it up

Offline Zyzzyva17

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2014, 10:27:51 PM »
Obviously this isn't happening this time around, but I think it would be cool to have a Transatlantic survivor where every epic is split up, not just The Whirlwind. The way it's being done now seems more "official," but I think the other way could lead to some interesting results.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 10:43:14 PM »
Obviously this isn't happening this time around, but I think it would be cool to have a Transatlantic survivor where every epic is split up, not just The Whirlwind. The way it's being done now seems more "official," but I think the other way could lead to some interesting results.

I *had* given that some thought, especially since I've had a mix of BAF that I made with the movements all split up as separate tracks, making for a 17-track album.

But I feel like, unlike "The Whirlwind", the 25-35 minute epics are more likely listened to in one go, and so they're digested as such. Splitting them up would be unfair to the song as a whole. Perhaps I could do a mini-survivor for each epic, where we decide the rankings for each epic's movements? I had done a similar survivor series for Dream Theater's multi-movement pieces (up to the release of ADTOE), as well as for Rush's multi-movement songs.

-Marc.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2014, 01:08:53 PM »
I would say to include all of the originals, though I'm not sure about the covers.

Edit: Not sure if this is relevant anymore. Sorry.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2014, 11:51:11 AM »
SMPT:e
Final Round's Results:
All Of The Above 6 (22.2%)
My New World 21 (77.8%)

1. All Of The Above
2. My New World
3. We All Need Some Light
4. In Held ('Twas) In I
5. Mystery Train

The epics top off the debut album's survivor with the ballad goes to Consolation. The survivor for BAF has started, so I hope you all have your listens under your belt and are ready to vote! Three rounds, six days, and then we'll move on to the monster The Whirlwind.

-Marc.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2014, 11:54:47 AM »
Just as another update, I've decided that the TOP THREE tracks from The Whirlwind will advance to the Finals. This will mean that there will be NINE songs from the albums to advance to the Finals, and ONE from the Consolations to the Finals, making for an TEN-SONG Finals. It just looks neater to me.

SO... for the Finals, we'll have the TOP TWO songs from SMPT:e, Bridge Across Forever, and Kaleidoscope, the TOP THREE songs from The Whirlwind, and the winning song from the Consolation Rounds.

I'm doing this mostly because the album has the most songs/tracks, and including the Bonus Disc originals puts the album over 80 minutes, so there's a LOT more material to choose from.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 01:45:07 PM by The Letter M »
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Offline Zyzzyva17

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2014, 11:56:18 AM »
I think you added wrong. That looks like a 10 song final to me.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2014, 12:26:22 PM »
I think you added wrong. That looks like a 10 song final to me.

WHOOPS... I can't do math. Thanks. :facepalm:

-Marc.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2014, 12:48:47 PM »
I think you added wrong. That looks like a 10 song final to me.

WHOOPS... I can't do math. Thanks. :facepalm:

-Marc.

Confused the fuck out of me too.  And still does because you say "Seven" songs from the albums will make it to the finals + 1 from Consolation.  I do believe it is NINE from the albums (2+2+3+2).
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2014, 01:45:31 PM »
I think you added wrong. That looks like a 10 song final to me.

WHOOPS... I can't do math. Thanks. :facepalm:

-Marc.

Confused the fuck out of me too.  And still does because you say "Seven" songs from the albums will make it to the finals + 1 from Consolation.  I do believe it is NINE from the albums (2+2+3+2).

Thanks :facepalm: :tup

I am not proof-reading my posts today as well as I should.

-Marc.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2014, 10:58:10 AM »
Bridge Across Forever
Final Round's Results:
Duel With The Devil 11 (35.5%)
Stranger In Your Soul 20 (64.5%)

1. Duel With The Devil
2. Stranger In Your Soul
3. Suite Charlotte Pike
4. Bridge Across Forever

Final results and, as expected, the two epics are moving on to the Finals, with the opener landing the top spot for the album's survivor.

-Marc.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2014, 02:58:05 PM »
The Whirlwind
Final Round's Results:
Rose Colored Glasses 19 (65.5%)
Is It Really Happening? 10 (34.5%)

1. Is It Really Happening?
2. Rose Colored Glasses
3. A Man Can Feel
4. On The Prowl
5. The Wind Blew Them All Away
6. Out Of The Night
7. Set Us Free
8. Evermore
9. Overture / Whirlwind
10. Lay Down Your Life
11. Pieces Of Heaven
12. Dancing With Eternal Glory / Whirlwind (Reprise)
13. Spinning
14. Lenny Johnson
15. Lending A Hand
16. For Such A Time

There we have it - the final results for the band's third album, and the top three will move on to the finals with "On The Prowl" going to Consolation.

Up next, the survivor for Kaleidoscope, then in 8 days/4 rounds, I'll begin the Consolation Rounds, which will include "We All Need Some Light", "Suite Charlotte Pike", "On The Prowl" and the third place song in Kaleidoscope.

After all of that, the FINALS will commence! Thanks again to the 20+ people who have stayed with me through this whole thing so far! I'm glad you're all participating! I'm not sure what Survivor to do next, so if anyone has any suggestions, let me know!

In the past, I've done Marillion, Genesis, Neal Morse (twice), Spock's Beard (twice), and Flying Colors (for the one album they've had). I've thought about doing The Flower Kings, but their expansive discography would be tough to tackle, and even with 1-Day Rounds, it would take a long while. Would anyone be up for that? I'd also be down for doing a Yes Survivor, especially with a new album coming out sometime this year. I would also be down to doing a second Marillion Survivor since they released Sounds That Can't Be Made since the last time I did it.

-Marc.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2014, 11:24:55 PM »
This would be a good time to do a Flower Kings survivor, as it would coincide with my thread that is running through their entire discography, although I am not sure how many regular participants you'd get (I have long been a believer that it's not worth doing if you are only getting a handful of people voting per round). 

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2014, 03:02:30 PM »
I get where splitting up The Whirlwind made sense for the album survivor, but for the Transatlantic finals, would you consider having The Whirlwind in there as one song? I mean, It's not like Motherless Children is in the finals... it's Duel With the Devil.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic Survivor 2014 - Results & Discussion
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2014, 03:39:33 PM »
I get where splitting up The Whirlwind made sense for the album survivor, but for the Transatlantic finals, would you consider having The Whirlwind in there as one song? I mean, It's not like Motherless Children is in the finals... it's Duel With the Devil.

The only reason it was split up was because it allowed for the survivor to be a bit more even, especially with the Finals. Having one 75 minute epic go against 5 epics that are a third of its length seems a bit unfair, especially given how popular and well-loved "The Whirlwind" is as a whole piece. I think the individual tracks stand up very well and could top some of the other songs in the Finals.

And I mean, up until this tour, their first three long epics were never played in parts - they were always played in full by the band, so it is hard to consider "Motherless Children" or "Slide" as separate tracks or songs. "The Whirlwind" is more of a suite-styled epic than your typical side-length epic with movements. Its parts are able to stand alone as individual songs, especially since parts of them originally started out that way.

But I do understand why any would like to see "The Whirlwind" in the finals as a whole piece. Either way, the end-results are pretty predictable. The five longest epics will be in the Top 5, no doubt about that, so even including "The Whirlwind" would just bump those down a spot and possibly mix up the Top 5 or Top 3 a bit.

Had "The Whirlwind" been conceived as a set of 3 or 4 epics in big chunks, it would've made this a bit easier and less predictable, but that's just how the albums ended up being. More or less, it was done the way it was because of how the albums were tracked, so that's how the Finals will be carried out.

-Marc.
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