True Detective on HBO (merged)

[DeanTheater]

Cohn (Mccaughnehy) has such disdain for that reverand he meets and just some of his cooworkers beliefs.  I love that Cohn character.  awesome!

Yeah, his character is very well written. As a man of Faith I often find myself having issues with 'atheist' characters in movies or TV shows because they are just SO over the top anti God. McCaughnehy's character is so well written that when he presents his 'matter a fact' dismissive opinion about God....although it's still in an ignorant fashion it's well done and well thought out.  Like it comes from a man who once had deep Faith and seemingly had it ripped away or he forcefully ripped it away himself at one point.

Thats a great Point.  I find his dark intellect intruiging. He has a morbid yet truthful insight on the world, which was carved out by his pas,t with loss of his daughter, and his drug use as a Narc/undercover.  Great character

also,
I agree with everyone about that last 6 minutes.  Some of the best stuff I have seen on TV.  Reminded me that firefight sequence in Mann's  "HEAT" with Pacino and Deniro .  Riveting, cannot wait for the next episode.

[TempusVox]

Okay, last nights episode was off the hook. Either A) Cohle is as guilty as sin, or B) He's really been working this whole time behind the scenes to find out who the Yellow King really is. I'm leaning toward option B. This episode was intense, and things are starting to really come together very quickly. As soon as the episode was over, I wished it was Sunday again already. Damn you HBO!!

Along the shores the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink behind the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.
Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.
Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the Yellow King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.
Song of my soul, my voice is dead,
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.

~Chambers

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I've definitely been catching the Carcosa and King in Yellow references.  Is this going to turn from a crime thriller to a horror story?

[Orbert]

It could go either way, but I'm thinking Cohle went off the grid to work on finding the real killer.  His little "time off" to visit his father in Alaska, I think, was meant to maybe indicate that he has no problem going dark.  Eight years is a lot different from a couple of days, or whatever it ended up being, but the principal is the same.

Also, he could be guilty, or a psycho, or both, but that would be so cliched that I would really be disappointed if that were the case, and I honestly don't think HBO would go that route.  Too easy, too cheap.

There's probably at least one major twist yet to happen, something completely unexpected (yet in retrospect, forshadowed).  Rather than spending a lot of time guessing and forming theories, I'm just enjoying watching it unfold.

I didn't expect the interviews to end already.  I guess I kinduv expected them to go all the way to the end of the series, and end with some kind of big reveal moment.  Instead, that part's done.  Interesting.

"Thanks for the beer."

[gmillerdrake]

Okay, last nights episode was off the hook. Either A) Cohle is as guilty as sin, or B) He's really been working this whole time behind the scenes to find out who the Yellow King really is. I'm leaning toward option B. This episode was intense, and things are starting to really come together very quickly. As soon as the episode was over, I wished it was Sunday again already. Damn you HBO!!

This show IMO is the best show going on television at the moment! Another fantastic episode! I loved when they were describing the 'shoot out' verbatim....individually as the real scenario unfolded before us. Pretty cool.

I agree and believe Cohle has been trying to figure out who the Yellow King is. I think he knows it is someone most likely in law enforcement or high up in politics (the Governor we briefly met?) and that the only way to catch him/them was to not be noticeable to them.

I think when Harreslsons character sees the inside of Cohles storage unit (cuz you know he's going to Cohle and saying something and eventually Cohle will let him in on it) that unit will be choc full of evidence...pictures....articles etc etc of eight years worth of Cohle tracking the Yellow King. It's his office probably.

Cohle had probably tracked the Yellow King to that most recent murder which would explain him being around and in the pics......or, he's the Yellow King. As was mentioned by Orbert that'd be a pretty lazy way of doing things and by the looks of it this series is far from lazy!

I'm with you Tempus an the whole I wish it was Sunday sentiment.....I wanted to keep watching on and on and on.....what a show!

[gmillerdrake]

Thinking on this a bit more and it wouldn't be all that suprising if Hart is deeply involved in the killings....if not the Yellow King then part of the 'cult' or whatever that has protected the Yellow King from the inside. They've made Kohl's character look like such a whack job that it's tempting and easy to believe he'd be involved, but I just don't see it being that easy.

Everything the Investigating Detectives who were taping Kohl and Hart's interview said about how Kohl 'led' Hart through the case could just as easily been Hart leading Kohl knowing that Kohl was so maticulous. Plus, Hart's the one who flat out murdered ol' boy who was handcuffed and could have possibly known all those involved.

[Orbert]

There's definitely some deceit and misdirection going on with both Hart and Cohle, but I think Cohle really is smarter than Hart, and his background, being significantly more extensive than Hart's, just adds to that.  Of course, that could all be part of something they've agreed to present, but I just can't see the point of it.  Hart has been a Louisiana cop all his life; Cohle has been deep undercover with the DEA, a Texas state cop, and is now a Lousiana state cop.

I see Hart blowing away Ledoux (or was that the other guy?) as a knee-jerk reaction to finding the kids in the trailer.  Cohle called for him a couple of times, and he was still in there, getting his head back together after what he'd found.  The boy was already dead, the girl in bad shape, and Hart is a father, after all.  He came out and just blasted Ledoux.  Did he just do that to cover something up?  Maybe, but that part of the story seems pretty straight.

[gmillerdrake]

I understand the parent aspect of why Hart would've been so irrational, but if he is involved he could have just as easily been ticked that he allowed a kid to die instead of keeping them alive...could have been ticked he even had kids there....or just protecting himself? I am probably looking for something that  isn't  there and it's probably as straight forward as it seems.

You're right about Kohl...he is way more intelligent than any of the characters we've met. I thought it was funny when Hart broke it to the two Detectives that it was Kohl who got the read on them...not vice versa.

[Orbert]

Yep.  And also, he got them to buy him a six-pack of beer, and he sat and drank it, making anything he says inadmissible, should it come to that.

[Orbert]

By the way, there's an image going around the net which appears to be a scene from an episode that we haven't seen yet.  I try to avoid spoilers, but stumbled across this, and now I can't wait for this scene.

Spoiler

And speaking of hair, Cohle and Hart back in the day:

[TempusVox]

Hell...maybe they're both involved. I mean everything they've told the detectives from the time Cohle said he was going to visit his dad onward is a lie. They're capable of setting the whole thing up. One theme that keeps me in Cohles court though is he keeps talking about people in higher positions of authority being involved. This and the previews show him questioning a governor or someone in future episodes.
I think the falling out they had is solely over Cohle realizing Ladoux was the wrong guy, and Hart wanting him to shut up about it. Somehow I think Hart may have discredited him somehow so no one at the time would take him seriously.

[Orbert]

One thing they've established is that what we see in the flashbacks is what "really" happened, as opposed to what Cohle and Hart tell the investigators in 2012.  So if they're both involved somehow, it has to still work given what we've seen.

For this reason, I don't think either of them are involved.  I think they're both basically good cops with some questionable methods.  "Good" of course is relative.  I just mean that they're interested in catching bad guys, and aren't bad guys themselves, but also aren't above going rogue or off-book if that's what it takes to serve the greater good.

In HBO's behind-the-scenes thing, the writer of the series refers to it as a manhunt, more than a whodunnit.  This implies to me that that part of it is pretty straight.  Sure, we'll get some twists along the way, but having it turn out that either or both of Cohle and Hart are involved won't be one of them.

[gmillerdrake]

I think the falling out they had is solely over Cohle realizing Ladoux was the wrong guy, and Hart wanting him to shut up about it. Somehow I think Hart may have discredited him somehow so no one at the time would take him seriously.

That's a good theory. I guess we will find out soon being that this is an 8 Episode 'story' and there have been 5 episodes, seems like a lot to cover in three hours which means the remaining episodes are going to be awesome!

[Orbert]

They've done a pretty good job of packing a lot into each episode so far.  At the end of each one, I'm amazed at how quickly it passed, and how much story was covered, and actually a bit relieved because it was so intense.  I only got HBO recently and have never watched any of their original series before, but a one-hour TV show without commercials is pretty heavy duty television (if there is such a thing).

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, I kinda thought that the 2012 investigations would frame the entire eight-episode run.  But Cohle's part of that is done now, and presumably Hart's will be soon as well.  He seemed to be getting pretty fed up with their questions and near-allegations involving Cohle, and finally called them on it.  Now that they've shared what they have on Cohle, and planted a few ideas in his head, maybe he'll stick around a little longer, but I have the feeling that we're now going to move on to the next phase, which is Hart and Cohle teaming back up in 2012 to catch the real killer.

[kirksnosehair]

Mrs. Nosehair and I have been watching this and really enjoying it.  Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey are brilliant in this, especially McConaughey.   

[emblempride]

I thought the last scene of the newest episode confirmed Cohle isn't involved

[gmillerdrake]

I thought the last scene of the newest episode confirmed Cohle isn't involved

Yeah, the way he was studying that old, what I guess was a crime scene? Or, was it some sort of altar? But you're right.....if he were involved in any way why would he be returning to those spots to 'discover' them? It seems that the general consensus in the thread is that Kohl is not involved....as much as the producers are trying to introduce enought doubt about him to where we'd think he was. As where....it doesn't seem on the surface that Hart would be involved but he sure would make a perfect 'inside' man if it were a larger conspiracy.

He all but lit up beaming with excitement in the (I think) second episode over what at the time could have been passed off as excitement to meet the Governor.....or was it happiness to see 'The Yellow King' himself?

Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey are brilliant in this, especially McConaughey.   

He has had a run of great acting here the past few years. Definitely someone who has continued to develop and improve as an actor.....on of my favorites.

[Orbert]

He was back at that private school that closed, where the girl used to go.  He never had a chance to go inside before, because Hart pulled up with the news that he'd found the connection between Lange and Ledoux, so they took off and put out the APB on Ledoux.

At the end of the episode, it's 2002, after the Guy Francis thing, so Cohle is thinking maybe they didn't catch the "reall" killer and is going back over everything (the tree, the school) to see what he might have missed.  Those bird traps were in a back room in the school, and yeah, he seemed very interested in them.  I don't think he's involved in the murders; the guys investigating in 2012 think he might be, but they couldn't get anything out of him and I don't think Hart's gonna roll on him, either.  They're just trying to put doubt in Hart's mind.  Either that, or they really don't have any idea and are just pushing as hard as they can, in no particular direction, to see what they can get.

[TempusVox]

Then again, Cohle has blackouts for extended periods. Perhaps he has been to those places before. Maybe the person he's been hunting down this entire time is himself.

[gmillerdrake]

Then again, Cohle has blackouts for extended periods. Perhaps he has been to those places before. Maybe the person he's been hunting down this entire time is himself.

Now that would be something. I didn't pay too much attention to how Kohl reacted to seeing the pictures of him at the latest murder.....did he give off anything like he was 'surprised'? Like....WTF am I doing there? It didn't seem like it since he has his emotions in check.

[Orbert]

He showed no reaction when he saw the photos, as usual.  There might have been just a slight eyebrow, like "Oh, photos.  How cute."  But he didn't give those guys anything.

[emblempride]

Then again, Cohle has blackouts for extended periods. Perhaps he has been to those places before. Maybe the person he's been hunting down this entire time is himself.

Well, he was at the school in 95 as Orbert said. I also believe Cohle said the visions stopped prior to 2002, which isn't reliable but I don't think he was lying about that. Very coincidental that Ledoux's record finally comes in as Cohle is still questioning the lawnmower/caretaker, who imdb said will reappear in the coming episodes. Read elsewhere that the lawnmower's face is comparable to the green-eared spaghetti monster.

[MoraWintersoul]

Just another gritty show about gritty moody mysterious men. Yawn. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty well written, but I'm really bored of this "dark, cynical realism" thing going on lately, and brutal detailed murders and other "shocking" events and yadda yadda, it's just pretty desentisizing after a while. Still waiting on more series about real, diverse characters doing real things.

[TempusVox]

I get what you're saying. Seems Hollyweird thinks thats all we can handle these days. That if it's not like that, then it won't be entertaining enough. But when we've been force fed like 190,000 episodes of supposed "edgy and real" crime drama in the "Law and Order" franchise alone, what do you expect the evolution to become?

Besides, if you understand what you're getting into going in, it's good fun. I mean this ain't your daddys "Dragnet" show. And it's been very well written and so far superbly acted.

[emblempride]

Just another gritty show about gritty moody mysterious men. Yawn. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty well written, but I'm really bored of this "dark, cynical realism" thing going on lately, and brutal detailed murders and other "shocking" events and yadda yadda, it's just pretty desentisizing after a while. Still waiting on more series about real, diverse characters doing real things.

I get that idea about the abundance of gritty and cynical shows, but this is unlike anything I can think aside from Twin Peaks. It's unique in its psychological aspect, wealth of symbolism and artistic dichtomy in setting and characters, and Lynchian shaded superconspiracy. I'd argue that the characters are what make the show. Cohle is a nihilist who conversely displays belief in what he presumes to be infallible truths, Hart is a completely gray area who recognizes that he practically has it all and still pushes it away with each action. It begs the question of how do you measure a man? Diversity is hard to ask for when the show is supposed to be centered around Hart and Cohle. Together, they are the amalgamation of archetypical detectives. They're slightly flat in development, but that doesn't negate that they are very complex and interesting characters imo played by fantastic actors. And you have to take into accoubt that this is an anthology series and that there is much potential for diversity in the future, especially if the seasons will be longer. Really, what they've done in only 5 episodes is damn marvelous.

[TioJorge]

^ All that.

Mora, what exactly do you mean when you say "diverse character doing real things". I mean...what the heck does 'real things' mean? Do you find the show to be that farfetched? As far as criminal dramas go, this one is pretty damn realistic; and I can't find many things that are that unrealistic in terms of actions and events that have happened. There's no Jack Bauer bullshit here... I'm not sure what you expect... To each their own, though; if you don't like it, you don't like it. But to say that this is not a show about 'real' characters is kind of preposterous.

I'm loving every minute of the show, and not that I'm downing anyone that doesn't like it, but I can't find many faults with the show's exposition and portrayal of its main characters and plot thus far. It's finely tuned and still downright evil at times...I love the way they show the world, especially the Louisiana 'badlands', in which I grew up and eventually flourished in, is magnificently vivid and loyal to the actual landscape and locale. I can't wait to see where this goes.

The only thing I'm worried about is the fact that this is an anthology series. The only anthology series I've seen thus far is American Horror Story and in my eyes that went to shit after the first season, so I'm weary about this one.

[Orbert]

You know what's fun?  Going to the IMDb board for True Detective and reading all the batshit crazy theories about who the killer is.  Some people have put a lot of thought into their theories, and unfortunately missed things which blow huge holes in their theories.

The only prediction I will make is that it is not Martin Hart or Rustin Cohle.  That would be the "shocking twist" that's already been done so many times that it's neither shocking nor much of a twist anymore.  Also, we've already seen too much evidence that it's not one of them.  And finally, that would just be stupid.

Other than that, who knows?  I know it can be fun to form theories, and it helps occupy the six days, 23 hours between shows, but some of them are so ridiculous that they're actually amusing to read.

[gmillerdrake]

I'd say Kohl not being involved is true....in fact it will most likely come to light he's been working this case all along looking for the Yellow King. But Hart......there's the possibility he's at least been covering for someone or group of people.

[TempusVox]

Marty Hart is the Yellow King. I'm sure of it now. ( If we were playing Clue, I'd be all in with this one)

[Orbert]

What makes you so sure?

[TempusVox]

Three things really.

The first one is the creator of the show claims the answer is in the first episode. I was on a website reading some actor interviews today and saw one of the old promo posters. (Seen here)

https://www.redcarpetcrash.com/hbos-true-detective-second-trailer-matthew-mcconaughey-woody-harrelson/

Its a very odd poster. The top of Woodys head is clipped off (the Crown), and his yellow hair is pasted at the bottom. The Yellow King. The picture is from the first episode.

Lastly, his daughters were playing with and fighting over the crown in the yard. If they were playing "princess", that would make their dad Marty, the "king".

Of course I sound crazier than a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. But I'm going with it. 

[Orbert]

Well, that's not nearly as far-fetched as some of the theories I've seen.  I can't find anything wrong with it, other than a very strong feeling that they're not going to crap out on us and make either Hart or Cohle the killer.  But that alone doesn't disprove your theory.

Still, I would honestly be very, very disappointed if they did that.

[Orbert]

Episode 6.  SPOILERS

There was a some development of course, but for the first time I wasn't left sitting there blown away.  I mean, literally every episode up til this one just left me mentally exhausted and blown from what I'd seen.  This one was intense as always, but I think it was the necessary "turning point" episode that we figured was coming after what went down last time.  We figured Rust ended up quitting, and he did.  Some guys on the IMDb boards have been saying it was going to be because Rust bangs Maggie.  I couldn't see that, but it turns out they were right, though I don't it it happened the way people figured it would.  Maggie basically took advantage of a very drunk Rust, and the moment they were done, they both knew it was a mistake.  Then Maggie dropped the bombshell; she'd done it on purpose because there's no way Marty was going to put up with that.  And of course she was right, but that makes her a manipulative bitch.  "Thanks, and I'm sorry."  Really?  Or maybe she was just hurt and pretty drunk, too.

I always thought it was interesting that Cohle's red pickup in 2002 looks at pristine as it did in 1997, and at first I thought that that was the props department dropping the ball.  Then I thought about it and Rust is the kind of guy who would keep his truck looking pristine.  But we saw Marty's head break that tail light, and in 2012, the tail light is still broken.  Okay, nice touch, but that's a bit harder to believe.  Another ten years later, the truck still looks shiny and new, except for the broken tail light.  If Rust never got it fixed, maybe it's because he finally said "fuck it" and let it be.  Maybe as a reminder of Marty.  But after ten years of going through car washes, those little pieces of broken plastic would be all busted out, and the water getting in would've killed the bulb and fixture.  We saw the light working.  So Rust handwashes the truck, always has, and even though he's a "detail guy" (no, I won't say OCD) he leaves the busted tail light for ten years?

I look forward to their conversation.  Ha ha, I love how he came back and said "On second thought, you buy me a beer."  After all this time, still a Class A Prick.

END SPOILERS

[TempusVox]

I think maye he had the truck in storage all this time. He disappeared for 8 years according to the other two detectives. My guess is that Rust went deep under cover in the "cult" group during that time, and maybe didn't use his truck. Remember they said when he resurfaced he got his license renewed.

[Orbert]

Ah, good point.  Yeah, he was completely off the grid for 8 of those ten years, and apparently not driving.