Power Metal

[wolfking]

Manowar have always been pretty hit or miss for me.  I like them, but they never really stuck with me.

[Zook]

I'm not even going to bother with Manowar. Any band that writes songs about their genre is an instant turn off for me. There's also the loin cloth thing. Too cheesy even for me.

[wolfking]

Even though they are cheesy as fuck, they are one of the only bands that sing about their own genre and do it quite well.

[TimmyHiggy]

I usually satisfy my power metal urges with a blast of "reckoning night" by Sonata Arctica

[NotePad]

Yea what i know about Manowar has always seemed way too cheesy for me. I'v seen band photo's of them. They were absolutely ridiculous. But they MUST be aware of how they look. Just look at their album covers. Reminds me of an old Sega Genesis game I used to play. Not sure of the name, was thinking Shining Force but actually i'm not sure it that was it...

[NotePad]

Golden Axe!!!!

That was it. The Manowar game ;p

[gazinwales]

Yeah I gave up on Manowar a few years back and gave away all their CD's that I had.
Sure there are cheesy, cliched but they do have some killer songs buried in all the hype.

[jammindude]

I have my one Manowar album more as a conversation piece than something to actually listen to. 

I pull it out once in awhile when I want a good laugh...and it works on that level.   

If you're ever in the mood for "Weird Al Yankovic meets Spinal Tap", *THAT* is when a Manowar album can really hit the spot.    I don't even view them as a real band.  (even though I know they are)   It's more like GWAR without the over the top monster costumes and blood. 

[Lowdz]

I have my one Manowar album more as a conversation piece than something to actually listen to. 

I pull it out once in awhile when I want a good laugh...and it works on that level.   

If you're ever in the mood for "Weird Al Yankovic meets Spinal Tap", *THAT* is when a Manowar album can really hit the spot.    I don't even view them as a real band.  (even though I know they are)   It's more like GWAR without the over the top monster costumes and blood.

I haven't enjoyed a ManOwaR album for years but to say they're not a real band is a bit harsh. They lead the way and are still doing it. They had their own style and stuck with it.  No one else sounds like ManOwaR. Not many power metal bands can say the same.

[gazinwales]

Give Manowar their dues, they've been around for 30 years, worked hard and are still around with a pretty solid loyal fan base.

[NotePad]

For some reason I'm listening to Def Leppard, who i have never heard before... heard OF...... Listening to Hysteria to see all the fuss is about.

I'v heard people listen to something like, say, Helloween and describe it as being like 80's rock bands. I can see early stuff like Dr. Stein or Rise and Fall having a same commercial feel and appeal as something by Motley Crue or Dep Leppard, i guess. Obviously Helloween (the power metal originator ;p ) never made it big commercially though.....

When i listen to something like Def leppard or Crue i can see how could have been an influence on power metal and the 'power metal' style of sound. I remember reading a review of a Helloween album a long time ago, i think one of the Deris albums, where the reviewer said he hadn't heard music like it since the 80's. I'v also heard them being described as sounding like they were incorporating 80's rock/metal and glam rock. I guess some of those bands had lots of speed sometimes and cool riffs. I find this kind of interesting, as i don't listen much to music like that. I'v always thought Crue would be worth it to get into. I don't see a band like Stratovarius as being this way, but I wouldn't be surprised if Helloween is still making music in a similar style to some of those bands.

Anways, i'm kinda just riffing, putting out my thoughts and observations, and seeing if any of you guys can elaborate I'm about a minute into Helter Skelter by motley crue and can definitely see helloween as making music like this.

[jammindude]

Hysteria is NOT the album you want to listen to if you're looking for how Def Leppard influenced 80's rock.

Some would say Pyromania, I would say High 'n' Dry would be the best place to look.   It's a FANTASTIC album...easily one of the best albums of the 80's, and I think it was very influential. 

[gazinwales]

Yeah DL Pyromania is a classic. 
I actually cannot see any connection between 1980's hair metal bands and power metal.
I think the whole speed metal and thrash genre are the exact opposite to the whole of the MTV era metal bands.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah DL Pyromania is a classic. 
I actually cannot see any connection between 1980's hair metal bands and power metal.
I think the whole speed metal and thrash genre are the exact opposite to the whole of the MTV era metal bands.

80s glam metal is more like melodic rock as opposed to speed metal.  Maybe some early Crue I could see being power metal.  But by-and-large, glam/hair =/= power metal.

[Lowdz]

Yeah DL Pyromania is a classic. 
I actually cannot see any connection between 1980's hair metal bands and power metal.
I think the whole speed metal and thrash genre are the exact opposite to the whole of the MTV era metal bands.

Agrre with this. High n Dry and Pyromania were Leppard as a rock band. Hysteria is a hard pop album really. Great songs bbut I don't see any influence on Power Metal other than production values and  inspiring Power metal bands to go the other, harder edged, way.

[cramx3]

I've always thought power metal had an 80s glam/hair influence. Mostly in terms of vocals and keyboards

[TAC]

High 'n' Dry would be the best place to look.   It's a FANTASTIC album...easily one of the best albums of the 80's, and I think it was very influential.

One of the best albums ever made!!


Not sure why DL is even mentioned in a Power Metal thread.

[jammindude]

High 'n' Dry would be the best place to look.   It's a FANTASTIC album...easily one of the best albums of the 80's, and I think it was very influential.

One of the best albums ever made!!


Not sure why DL is even mentioned in a Power Metal thread.

Believe it or not...early DL is considered to be a NWOBHM band....thus, a part of the influential sound that power metal was modeled after.    (when I first heard that in 1986, I was just as surprised as you are)   But looking at their early demos from the late 70's and On Through the Night, I can kinda see it.    It's just REALLY HARD to objectively look back at that time and look at DL without the context of "Pour Some Sugar On Me"....but there was a time when they were practically a power metal band....or at least, an early prototype. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Their influence doesn't make them a power metal band. The Beatles were influential to almost everything, including a number of metal bands, but that doesn't make The Beatles metal.

[jammindude]

Their influence doesn't make them a power metal band. The Beatles were influential to almost everything, including a number of metal bands, but that doesn't make The Beatles metal.

I did use the caveat "practically"....as in, there were similarities.  I never said anything to insinuate "equality"...

The NWOBHM movement was a *direct* influence on power metal.   I don't think that much can be disputed.   I was then just pointing out the fact that early DL is considered to be a part of that movement. 

[TAC]

High 'n' Dry would be the best place to look.   It's a FANTASTIC album...easily one of the best albums of the 80's, and I think it was very influential.

One of the best albums ever made!!


Not sure why DL is even mentioned in a Power Metal thread.

Believe it or not...early DL is considered to be a NWOBHM band....thus, a part of the influential sound that power metal was modeled after.    (when I first heard that in 1986, I was just as surprised as you are)   But looking at their early demos from the late 70's and On Through the Night, I can kinda see it.    It's just REALLY HARD to objectively look back at that time and look at DL without the context of "Pour Some Sugar On Me"....but there was a time when they were practically a power metal band....or at least, an early prototype.

Yeah, I believe in general structure where NWOBHM and Power Metal could be related, with Accept being the perfect bridge. Fast As A Shark is a song I've always considered to be the first European Power Metal track. Or at least the most influential.

I find On Through The Night more Progressive than the Classic Metal style of HnD.

[NotePad]

Yeah, i belive NWOBHM was a direct influence of Power Metal. Helloween was definately listening to Priest and Maiden, even today are probably still influenced by them. And i have heard many times Def Leppard was considered part of that wave before going commercial.

I'm thinking more about 80s hard rock and hair metal bands, like Motley Crue as i mentioned above. I hear some Crue songs and can see it being an influence on early power metal bands. And i wonder if and power metal bands were an influence on Priest's Painkiller album ;p

[gazinwales]

I would actually say the JP were playing power metal long before Painkiller and before the name was coined.
Defenders Of The Faith, from 1984 was perhaps the hybrid PM album.
I remember playing it many times back in the day, it was fast heavy and anthemic, power metal to a tee.

Saxon and Iron Maiden are the most obvious and famous NWOBHM bands.
Saxon are more traditional metal, but these days often thrown in the PM crowd, and perhaps are?
IM, we know have turned into a more progressive metal band, with it's long songs, tempo changes and lyrical themes.

But I would say that the NWOBHM bands influenced more thrash than power metal bands, with Metallica being the most famous.

[TAC]

But I would say that the NWOBHM bands influenced more thrash than power metal bands, with Metallica being the most famous.

Yes, thank you. I agree.

I'm thinking more about 80s hard rock and hair metal bands, like Motley Crue as i mentioned above. I hear some Crue songs and can see it being an influence on early power metal bands. And i wonder if and power metal bands were an influence on Priest's Painkiller album ;p

I still don't really consider Painkiller a "Power Metal" album by any stretch. I think Priest was more influenced by how soft Turbo and Ram It Down were. Now THOSE albums were truly influenced by the times.
Painkiller was really Priest basically saying "Fuck this, we are coming back harder and stronger". They also finally got a HUGE upgrade in drummers, one who could go double bass, and it really helped change the complexion of Priest's material.

There us NO line that can be drawn from Motley Crue to Power Metal.

[NotePad]

Honestly, most Priest I'm familiar with is the big hit songs, and Jugulator because the very idea of it I find very interesting and it killer metal.

I just started listening to the Painkiller album and was surprised by how fuckin heavy and brutal it is! I'v heard the album being referred to as Power Metal, but mostly it gets described as speed metal. A lot of Power metal bands sometimes are referred to as speed metal. Isn't Speed metal the same as thrash metal though? Or is the term Speed Metal more of a general term? and maybe thrash and power metal evolved out of bands that started out influenced by speed metal and evolved from there. i think the power metal sound came from bands like Helloween that were influenced by Maiden and Priest but wanted to be heaver, but still had a desire for melody and such.

But I do think there are a lot of people who think of Painkiller as JPs power metal album. Isn't there a Maiden album that some people say is their power metal album? I know some say Seventh Son was progressive metal, but i think it was also either Seventh Son or another album that some say is maiden's PM album.

And gazinwales, I agree that what Maiden is writing and performing these days is very much progressive metal. IMO they started to get more progressive on X Factor. It's funny, if you compare let's say the last 4 or 5 Priest and Maiden albums, they are very different. But neither band really gets put under labels like 'Power metal' or 'progressive metal'. When it comes down to it, they're really just metal bands. I think early Priest and Maiden could be put into the same category as each other. But not anymore.

BTW, how does Nostradamus compare to other JP albums? Is it anything like Painkiller? And this might be a stupid question, but i'll ask because I'm a giant nerd sometimes when it comes to this stuff. How do AoR and Nostradamus compare in style to Maiden's last few since BNW?

[wolfking]

BTW, how does Nostradamus compare to other JP albums? Is it anything like Painkiller? And this might be a stupid question, but i'll ask because I'm a giant nerd sometimes when it comes to this stuff. How do AoR and Nostradamus compare in style to Maiden's last few since BNW?

Nostradamus is by far the worst Priest album, nothing like Painkiller.  AOR was a great little album filled with some excellent metal and rock songs, but Nostradamus is just rubbish.

[ErHaO]

These are the power metal albums that I currently listen the most or regard as personal classics (or albums that kind of give me the same epic sound, albeit not clearly being power metal):

Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle Earth
Angra - Temple of Shadows
Sonata Arctica - Reckoning Night
Symphony X - Paradise Lost
Theocracy - As the World Bleeds
Sabaton - Carolus Rex
Nightwish - Wishmaster
Demons and Wizards - Demons & Wizards
Kamelot - Silverthorn
Rage - Unity
Falconer - Northwind
Van Canto - Tribe of Force


My favourite artist is absolutely Blind Guardian (in general), I love all their songs after the second album (tough the production of some albums is not that good).

[NotePad]

BTW, how does Nostradamus compare to other JP albums? Is it anything like Painkiller? And this might be a stupid question, but i'll ask because I'm a giant nerd sometimes when it comes to this stuff. How do AoR and Nostradamus compare in style to Maiden's last few since BNW?

Nostradamus is by far the worst Priest album, nothing like Painkiller.  AOR was a great little album filled with some excellent metal and rock songs, but Nostradamus is just rubbish.

Huh. Disappointing to hear.

The reason I'm curious about those two albums is because when Bruce and Adrian Smith rejoined with Maiden, they recorder Brave New World which was not only an amazing record, but felt like such a glorious return. BNW is such a powerful record not just in it's sound, but from the feeling I get listening to it and what it means for the band. The sound is so goddamn full!, you know? The 3 guitarists works so well for them . I think BNW is Maiden's strongest album to date. In my mind it is timeless. In years to come it will be thought of as one of their masterpieces, unlike DoD for instance. (but i am forgetting about AMOLAD, which is one of their best. But BNW is #1).

I was hoping AoR would be JPs Brave New World. I guess not. Although, that is just your opinion, no offense

[TAC]

Notepad, there's a lot to chew on in your post.

You can easily find Priest's stamp on every sub genre of metal. If people want to call Painkiller their "Power Metal" album, I'm not going to argue it, even though I do not agree, and when it came out, the thought had never crossed my mind. For the few years preceding Painkiller, they were listening to how soft they had become. Plus you had the emergence of all these bands that Priest influenced going right by them. A band like Metallica is the perfect example. Priest really had to up their "Metal" on Painkiller. It's written that way and it feels that way. It's a similar thing to when Alice Cooper released Raise Your Fist And Yell.

Speed Metal was a natural progression from the NWOBHM. In my opinion, Speed Metal splintered into two, the American style thrash built on aggression and riffs, and the European Power Metal, which certainly had the speed, but placed importance on sweeping melodic passages. Helloween's Keeper Pt .1 was really the first time where I thought, jeesh, we really have something new here, as it basically laid the blueprint for what Power Metal would become.

I'm on record as saying that Helloween's are one of the most important and underrated bands of the last quarter century. Their influence on today's metal, particularly Power Metal is monumental.


And Maiden had no album that was really Power Metal. They influenced the genre in a different way, and it was really their use of memorable and inspiring choruses.

[wolfking]

I'm on record as saying that Helloween's are one of the most important and underrated bands of the last quarter century. Their influence on today's metal, particularly Power Metal is monumental.

I have always thought this.  Even Walls of Jericho was important too, even just as important as keepers.  It mixed the speed/thrash metal thing with power metal, it was new and fresh, and raw.

[TAC]

I'm on record as saying that Helloween's are one of the most important and underrated bands of the last quarter century. Their influence on today's metal, particularly Power Metal is monumental.

I have always thought this.  Even Walls of Jericho was important too, even just as important as keepers.  It mixed the speed/thrash metal thing with power metal, it was new and fresh, and raw.

Yeah, I agree. I meant to reference Jericho in my post but apparently lost my train of thought.
Helloween was a groundbreaking band in the mid 80's and they really don't get the credit they deserve.

[wolfking]

Even though Kai has been called the grandfather of power metal, he definitely doesn't get the credit he deserves.

[TAC]

Even though Kai has been called the grandfather of power metal, he definitely doesn't get the credit he deserves.

I agreed, and I was glad that Sam Dunn recognized him in his documentary. I loved the Power Metal episode.

And as I said in the Helloween thread, I think Weikath deserves almost as much credit, and Helloween has really continued to be the standard bearers. Say what you want about Weiki, but the man has vision.
And I love how Kai's thrash/speed roots really show themselves on the post Sheepers Gamma Ray albums.

Also, I know a lot of people feel he is overrated, but as many know I'm a huge Kiske guy. His influence also cannot be understated.

The Keepers lineup was truly a perfect storm, with 3 of today's most important influencers, with each bringing such different strengths.

[Lowdz]

I agree with pretty much everything posted after the Motley Crue influenced Power Metal bit 

Buuut, I don't think Painkiller was necesarily a reaction to how soft JP had become because apart from the keyboards/guitar synths its essentially the same style they had been doing post Sad Wings. JP were never very heavy at all (DotF excepted). I think it was more a reaction to how metal was going and an attempt to stay current. As was Alice's raise Your fist and every album after that.

[wolfking]

Scott Travis gave them more scope on what they could do with their sound too.  I think they wanted to explore that.