Author Topic: Can I just...can I just PLEASE say one thing about comforting people in grief?  (Read 2671 times)

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Offline theseoafs

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Looks like I made a sufficient number of people unnecessarily mad. :lol

Basically what yesh and others have said, all I'm saying advocating is being there and speaking from the heart. From my observations, those three catch-phrases I put in the OP are usually in bad taste (even if they are well-meaning). One person said that you shouldn't get offended if someone says these things to you - I mean, on paper I might agree, but you have to realize that grieving people are extremely sensitive and yes, you should "walk on eggshells" if you want to respect their sensitivities.

So what do we do?  Do we speak from the heart (and therefore say a bunch of stuff that the grieving person might not want to hear) or do we walk on eggshells (by saying cliche phrases that show our support without getting too specific or intense)?  Do we offer help if the person needs it, or do we say "what do you need?", or do we not because apparently "people in shock don't know what they need"?

I'm beginning to suspect you're not a counseling guru, H.

Offline nightmare_cinema

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I can't believe you're seriously advocating walking on eggshells to respect sensitivities... these things seem blatantly obvious to me (although everybody sees things differently depending on what they experienced growing up, what they've learned socially, the culture in which they live etc.):

1. Trying to say 'the right thing' is impossible. Grieving people are sometimes not thinking straight or at their most emotionally stable and might be offended/get upset/get angry at something you could never even have predicted.

2. When/if this happens, you apologise sincerely for causing offence and note for the future.

3. Wanting to walk on eggshells is not only impossible because you can't predict reactions, it makes people less likely to actually acknowledge the grief because they are scared of saying the wrong thing.

4. Most people who have been bereaved just want and need to know that their friends and family care, they don't expect everybody to suddenly become a trained grief counsellor.

5. It's actually quite saddening for the bereaved person sometimes when they feel as though their friend is treating them differently. Something major has changed their life, permanently. It's horrible to feel as though your friendships are changing too and that people are treating you differently. And it's not hard to tell. Also possibly more insulting than anything you could actually say... 'does my best friend really think so little of me that I'd get angry at them for talking to me directly about this?'
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 04:29:25 PM by nightmare_cinema »
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Offline Ħ

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Maybe we are thinking of two different things when we're talking about "walking on eggshells". So let's just drop the cliche.

I just mean we ought to be extra-mindful of what we say to grieving persons. Not that we need to say nothing. Not that we need to avoid them. Just that we ought to realize that grief makes people extremely sensitive and possibly easily offended or put off. And that's OK, cause we'll be there for them. But we will be very cautious about how we express that.

Thanks n_c for sharing, btw.

Honestly, my reaction to the responses ITT is, well, holy crap. Why are people so upset? I just questioned the use of certain consoling methods and brought it to the floor. Not sure why people think I'm wrong on all counts, including my motives. No reason to get your panties in a bundle, people.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 04:34:54 PM by Ħ »
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Offline nightmare_cinema

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Maybe we are thinking of two different things when we're talking about "walking on eggshells". So let's just drop the cliche.

I just mean we ought to be extra-mindful of what we say to grieving persons. Not that we need to say nothing. Not that we need to avoid them. Just that we ought to realize that grief makes people extremely sensitive and possibly easily offended or put off. And that's OK, cause we'll be there for them. But we will be very cautious about how we express that.

Thanks n_c for sharing, btw.

I don't think anybody tries to comfort a grieving person without realising the gravity of it... it sounds as though you think most people go round to their bereaved friend's house and say any old crap to them thinking 'ah well, what they think about it is irrelevant'; people say all of those things with the best of intentions and while I think it's positive to draw attention to the fact that 'I know how you feel' isn't as supportive as it may superficially seem, putting extra pressure on people in already delicate situations not to fk up is counter-productive, imo.

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Offline nightmare_cinema

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I mean, 1 and 2 are truly brilliant points and certainly something I advocate in a counselling context as well as when interacting with friends. Even 3 is great, it's easier to accept 'I'm cooking dinner, mind if I bring some over?' than ask for help. I just think placing all of this emphasis on people not messing up when they're probably already trying to do their best is a tad damaging.

When someone has died you love, you can feel people pulling away. Not so much in my case because I'm lucky enough to have super supportive, close, open friendships and my friends were utterly fking perfect in every way imaginable. But in the cases of many other people I've spoken to, they feel something of a social pariah. They might have lost their partner, so they're suddenly the odd one out in their coupled up friendship circle, the awkward one at a dinner party, the one who's unsure of who their +1 will be at an event, the person turning up alone to parent's evening. I've even heard of widowed women losing female friends who suddenly become wary of having a single woman in their group who may pose a threat to their marriage (yep, seriously).

People don't know what to say so they just say nothing, or avoid. They go for the 'let's distract them' route leaving the grieving person feeling as though they can't sit and talk about the person they lost for fear of bumming everybody else out. Quite often they're the ones having to put on a brave face for their kids, their remaining parent, or whoever. It's just good for them to know that you are the person they can go to to speak about how they're coping and how they're feeling.

I'd rather people make the effort to talk to the individual even if they risk saying something that doesn't go down well than be so scared of messing up that they say nothing at all. I know you're not openly actively suggesting people ignore their grieving friends, but frightening people away from interacting with them by pointing out the already very obvious would have that exact effect. Can you see that?

You had some great initial points but by diverting into the 'please, remember, respect sensitivities and walk on eggshells' thing was just... weird!
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Offline Heretic

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I will agree that when I've been extremely upset hearing "I know how you feel" has made me quite cross. No one can ever know exactly how one feels in one specific moment because everyone interprets situations different and people's emotions are never quite the same, even if one has been in a similar situation.

However, as has been said, there is no definite right way to comfort a person in grief. Trying to define what combination of words will have greatest effect on a person who is emotionally grieving? That's a futile exercise. I find that people offering support and kindhearted gestures has the best effect with me, personally. Sometimes it is after the fact that I appreciate others' words and actions--sometimes during grief you don't want what people are offering.

Despite my (and others, apparently) disagreement with your actual sentiments I find your approach to this to be somewhat kind of a gesture, though-- you are trying to warn against saying the wrong thing to someone in grief, and that is something to be thought about for sure.

Offline nightmare_cinema

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Honestly, my reaction to the responses ITT is, well, holy crap. Why are people so upset? I just questioned the use of certain consoling methods and brought it to the floor. Not sure why people think I'm wrong on all counts, including my motives. No reason to get your panties in a bundle, people.

I'm no counseling guru, so if you have any objections, let's hear 'em.

You gotta accept that when you post stuff that is quite sensitive, plenty of people will have stuff to say. Especially when it has the potential to tap into difficult emotions and experiences. I'm sure everyone's panties are fine, I know mine are. :)
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Offline Ħ

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@ n_c

I brought up the need for elevated social tact when dealing with grieving people, because people were saying things like:

Quote
I don't think we need to coddle the greiving by walking on eggshells around them. Having to acknowledge other people's perspectives is all part of the process of healing.
That's all.

@Heretic

Yeah, I'm not saying we should find the magic words that fit every situation. (There are none.) But, like you say, it's far easier to figure out what not to say, and knowing what not to say is still helpful.

And when you say you disagree with my "sentiments", what exactly are you talking about? It seems like you agree (for the most part) with the actual things I've said.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Nick

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Looking very briefly over this thread all I'll say for now is... nothing. Gotta leave for FW soon and don't want to get caught up in it now, but when I get a chance I'll try and throw some thoughts around.
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Offline nightmare_cinema

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@ n_c

I brought up the need for elevated social tact when dealing with grieving people, because people were saying things like:

Quote
I don't think we need to coddle the greiving by walking on eggshells around them. Having to acknowledge other people's perspectives is all part of the process of healing.
That's all.

I'm not sure where that quote came from, but I didn't see it before just now. It strikes me as very insensitive. Being sensitive to someone who is in a turbulent emotional state and might have just had their life turned completely upside down just strikes me as being a decent human being to me... it's not really the time to be expecting them to acknowledge other perspectives, at least initially. Maybe I'm just viewing it in an extra-negative light because of the term 'coddle', which carries connotations of 'indulging' them or being over-protective.

My grandma told me a couple of days after I lost my mum that she wouldn't be attending the funeral because my mother was a selfish btch who couldn't even be bothered to attend her own father's funeral a year earlier, and it was all self-inflicted so she deserved no sympathy (she died as a result of alcoholism). Can't say that acknowledging her perspective on my mum was hugely helpful at that exact moment. I brushed it off however, I had bigger fish to fry (such as organising a funeral). Nice lady!
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Offline Jaffa

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I think the key thing is to be understanding.  I mean, the bottom line is, no matter what you say, it's kind of impossible to predict how a grieving person is going to react.  If you tell them to stay strong, maybe it'll just make them feel pathetic because they don't feel like they're capable of being strong right now; on the other hand, maybe it will be exactly what they needed to hear, as was apparently the case for emblempride's mother.  And I think that's true of pretty much anything you might possibly say: it might make them feel better, it might make them feel worse.  They might smile, they might cry, or they might not even hear you because they were so lost in thought.  It's impossible to predict.

So while we can try to avoid upsetting them, I think the most important thing is to realize that they already are upset, and that they're probably going to continue to be upset, and that it's okay for them to be upset.  However they're reacting, however they're behaving, whatever they're doing, it's all understandable given what they're going through.  Once you understand that, it's just a matter of being there for them when you can and trying to play it by ear.

My two cents.   
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline Ħ

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I think the key thing is to be understanding.  I mean, the bottom line is, no matter what you say, it's kind of impossible to predict how a grieving person is going to react.  If you tell them to stay strong, maybe it'll just make them feel pathetic because they don't feel like they're capable of being strong right now; on the other hand, maybe it will be exactly what they needed to hear, as was apparently the case for emblempride's mother.  And I think that's true of pretty much anything you might possibly say: it might make them feel better, it might make them feel worse.  They might smile, they might cry, or they might not even hear you because they were so lost in thought.  It's impossible to predict.

So while we can try to avoid upsetting them, I think the most important thing is to realize that they already are upset, and that they're probably going to continue to be upset, and that it's okay for them to be upset.  However they're reacting, however they're behaving, whatever they're doing, it's all understandable given what they're going through.  Once you understand that, it's just a matter of being there for them when you can and trying to play it by ear.

My two cents.   
:'( I cried.
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Offline emblempride

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I didn't mean to seem overemotional in my response and I'd just like to apologize if it came out that way. I wasn't miffed making the post or anything, but rereading it, I can see how that impression can be made. I just think that it's too personal an experience each time for someone to accurately predict how one will react when saying certain things. I agree with the sentiment that just being there, if nothing else, is what's most important.
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Offline CrimsonSunrise

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I seemingly deal with this issue everyday.  As a cancer survivor I'm still involved in social networks with folks fighting.  One of my closet comrades in this fight had  a reccurence and actually had surgery again today.  It's met'd to his bones, so it's not good.  I told his fiance, another cancer survivor, that we're thinking of them both today, and then broke your 3rd rule.  I ALWAYS ask if there's anyway I can help or if there's anything I can do for them.  Almost everyday I'm giving condolences or prayers, vibes and good thoughts to someone.

I don't know if there's a BEST practice, but as long as like you and others mention, it comes from your heart and isn't hurtful it's good.  Your original post is a little strong, and in my opinion incorrect.  Not trying to beat ya down bro, just saying I disagree with you.  One thing I know for sure... I'm dealing with this issue (grieving/condolences) way to fucking much.

Offline Lucien

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Empathy. Period. Listen to them. Imagine what they are going through, make yourself feel their pain (perhaps not literally but in your mind.) Once you understand their pain, comforting them is that much easier. Having a person to pour their emotions into is comforting in and of itself.
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Offline FlyingBIZKIT

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I'm going through this right now and it's true, you really don't know what to say. There's not much to say, really. The best you can do is be there for the people in grief, and that's all you can do. My emotions have gone off the wall: Sometimes I prefer to be alone in my room listening to music, and other times, like this morning, I wanted to go to work with my mom because it gave me something to do. It's just a weird situation, not only for the people that it really affects, but the people trying to help that certain one. There's no clear answer or thing you need to do, and as many have said, everyone reacts differently to different situations. The best I can do right now is keep moving forward, because my best friend surely wouldn't want me to grieve over this. Carry on :)

Offline Lucien

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I'm going through this right now and it's true, you really don't know what to say. There's not much to say, really. The best you can do is be there for the people in grief, and that's all you can do. My emotions have gone off the wall: Sometimes I prefer to be alone in my room listening to music, and other times, like this morning, I wanted to go to work with my mom because it gave me something to do. It's just a weird situation, not only for the people that it really affects, but the people trying to help that certain one. There's no clear answer or thing you need to do, and as many have said, everyone reacts differently to different situations. The best I can do right now is keep moving forward, because my best friend surely wouldn't want me to grieve over this. Carry on :)

I love those three words.
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Offline Ħ

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I'm going through this right now and it's true, you really don't know what to say. There's not much to say, really. The best you can do is be there for the people in grief, and that's all you can do. My emotions have gone off the wall: Sometimes I prefer to be alone in my room listening to music, and other times, like this morning, I wanted to go to work with my mom because it gave me something to do. It's just a weird situation, not only for the people that it really affects, but the people trying to help that certain one. There's no clear answer or thing you need to do, and as many have said, everyone reacts differently to different situations. The best I can do right now is keep moving forward, because my best friend surely wouldn't want me to grieve over this. Carry on :)
Nice to hear your input, flyingbizkit.

I think, subconsciously, your recent thread put the whole idea of this topic in my brain. I apologize if this thread was offensive to you; I made it too much on a whim.
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Offline Jaffa

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Well, I for one don't think there's any reason to apologize for this thread.  You had something on your mind, and you wanted to put it out there, that's all.  And it has led to some worthwhile discussion.  :)
Sincerely,
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Offline hefdaddy42

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I just tell people fuck their weak little feelings and that they're a pitiful disgrace to the Saiyan race. Then I kill them. And if their friends and family are watching and any of them shed a single tear, I kill them too. Then I keep killing until there's just the emotionless badasses left.


WTF? :jawdrop:
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Offline FlyingBIZKIT

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I'm going through this right now and it's true, you really don't know what to say. There's not much to say, really. The best you can do is be there for the people in grief, and that's all you can do. My emotions have gone off the wall: Sometimes I prefer to be alone in my room listening to music, and other times, like this morning, I wanted to go to work with my mom because it gave me something to do. It's just a weird situation, not only for the people that it really affects, but the people trying to help that certain one. There's no clear answer or thing you need to do, and as many have said, everyone reacts differently to different situations. The best I can do right now is keep moving forward, because my best friend surely wouldn't want me to grieve over this. Carry on :)
Nice to hear your input, flyingbizkit.

I think, subconsciously, your recent thread put the whole idea of this topic in my brain. I apologize if this thread was offensive to you; I made it too much on a whim.

Oh no! It's totally cool and I enjoyed reading this thread. :)

Offline jammindude

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Sometimes a shared experience can (for me) lead to greater connection and greater empathy.

I know that when I lost my father, the lineup of people repeating the same cliched lines to comfort me got a bit tedious.  However, when it came from someone who I knew had also recently lost a parent, and shared their experience...THAT was something I felt a connection with.   Because when people are just coming up to you and saying "sorry", it can get a little old after the 100th or 1000th time.   (although the volume can carry a different comfort when taken as a whole.  You're reminded of just how many people cared enough to take the time to say *something*)   But those who honestly HAVE been through what you've been through, they tend to stand out.  (at least, they did for me anyway)

That's why sometimes I feel the need to share my experience...because people sharing their experiences was what helped me when I suffered a loss, and it really meant a lot to me.   It became the grieving voice of an actual person with an individual experience all their own instead of a "form letter" condolence.     But again, everyone grieves differently.
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