Enigma Machine

[BlobVanDam]

Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.

And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.

We are in agreement, which means it should become the unofficial name for the song.

We're in agreement, which means it should be the official name of the song, and DT should remaster and reprint the album with "End Credits" as a listed track.

[MinistryOfLostSouls]

Considering the band said DT12 had a cinematic feel to it, and the easter egg is like after the end of a film, I think "End Credits" is a good name for it.

And given that it's apparently being used for end credits at the live shows too, I like that name.

We are in agreement, which means it should become the unofficial name for the song.

We're in agreement, which means it should be the official name of the song, and DT should remaster and reprint the album with "End Credits" as a listed track.

Poor Dennis. 

[Invisible]

I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis?

As for Enigma Machine, it grew on me, but it's probably my least favourite instumental. It's probably good for what they intended to do, but emotionally it doesn't move me at all at any moment.

1. Hell's Kitchen (masterpiece)
2. Erotomania
3. Stream of Conciousness
4. Eve
5. "End Credits"
------------------
6. Ytse Jam
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. Enigma Machine

The above the line I consider (2, 3, 4 and 5 are interchangeable), the others are good but not great.

Oh, and I don't count both Overtures or FAS because I think they are not the same kind of pieces and therefore can't be put in the same bag.

[adastra]

I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis?

As for Enigma Machine, it grew on me, but it's probably my least favourite instumental. It's probably good for what they intended to do, but emotionally it doesn't move me at all at any moment.

1. Hell's Kitchen (masterpiece)
2. Erotomania
3. Stream of Conciousness
4. Eve
5. "End Credits"
------------------
6. Ytse Jam
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. Enigma Machine

The above the line I consider (2, 3, 4 and 5 are interchangeable), the others are good but not great.

Oh, and I don't count both Overtures or FAS because I think they are not the same kind of pieces and therefore can't be put in the same bag.

whats the difference? :3

[Podaar]

I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis?

[lithium112]

If we're ranking instrumentals, my list would never be complete without Bombay Vindaloo. I know it's not a studio track, but it's my second favourite DT instrumental (after SoC). To me BV paints a vivid picture. It's got a story and a progression. None of the other instrumentals really do the same for me.

[hefdaddy42]

Funny you say that, because it is basically a jam, not an actual composition.  Which is probably why no one is including it.

BTW, I totally get why people wouldn't want to include an overture.  But FAS is just another instrumental, no reason not to include it.

[lithium112]

I've wondered about that actually! Like, a jam as in was it improvised? Or partly improvised?

[Invisible]

I'm sorry, but who or what is Dennis?

As for Enigma Machine, it grew on me, but it's probably my least favourite instumental. It's probably good for what they intended to do, but emotionally it doesn't move me at all at any moment.

1. Hell's Kitchen (masterpiece)
2. Erotomania
3. Stream of Conciousness
4. Eve
5. "End Credits"
------------------
6. Ytse Jam
7. The Dance of Eternity
8. Enigma Machine

The above the line I consider (2, 3, 4 and 5 are interchangeable), the others are good but not great.

Oh, and I don't count both Overtures or FAS because I think they are not the same kind of pieces and therefore can't be put in the same bag.

whats the difference? :3

Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.

Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.

[Sacul]

Won't somebody please think of Instrumedley? D:

[adastra]

whats the difference? :3

Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.

Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.

Okay bro! But yeah, you could exclude the easter egg with those same reasons  
I've completely forgotten Bombay Vindaloo when talking about instrumentals o.o  Great song/Jam!

[Grizz]

Won't somebody please think of Instrumedley? D:

Well, we kind of are already using the source material, and medleys suck.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Won't somebody please think of Instrumedley? D:

Well, we kind of are already using the source material, and medleys suck.

^ This is correct.

[Lucien]

In regards to the easter egg of IT, I've always called it True Sleep on the Summit, sort of as an opposite to FAS.

[Invisible]

whats the difference? :3

Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.

Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.

Okay bro! But yeah, you could exclude the easter egg with those same reasons

Hmmm... yes and no? I have to agree, but it's actually the opposite, it's a "closing" piece, but yes, you're kind of right .
The thing is, you only hear the Overture if the whole Six Degrees is going to be played/listened, and they never played Overture 1928 without Strange Deja Vu as far as I'm concerned. And FAS is a concert/album opener meant to be an "intro tape", not to be played by the band. And if you consider that originally Illumination Theory was going to be the second track and was changed to the last in the last minute, it's kind of a weird "overture" to that too(not really though). That's the main difference between these and the other instrumentals, although I think I already made my point before .

[MirzekDT]

whats the difference? :3

Well, the three of them serve the purpose of being intro pieces, to set the mood or the tone for what's about to come, none of them are meant to be heard as stand-alone instrumentals IMHO. I mean, they are the same in the way that there are no vocals, but I find them different kind of pieces in the way they were created, which makes them different. You can throw the others in the middle of any setlist anywhere, but these three only work as openers, so that's why I can't compare them to the others as they serve different purposes.

Bombay Vindaloo totaly fits the list however, I just forgot about it since it's not a studio instrumental. And yes, it was probably partly improvised, they obviously had a sort of frame to work with, as most jams do, but other than that it's probably improvised. Well, we could throw Instrumedley in there too, but my list is 100% studio instrumentals.

Okay bro! But yeah, you could exclude the easter egg with those same reasons

Hmmm... yes and no? I have to agree, but it's actually the opposite, it's a "closing" piece, but yes, you're kind of right .
The thing is, you only hear the Overture if the whole Six Degrees is going to be played/listened, and they never played Overture 1928 without Strange Deja Vu as far as I'm concerned. And FAS is a concert/album opener meant to be an "intro tape", not to be played by the band. And if you consider that originally Illumination Theory was going to be the second track and was changed to the last in the last minute, it's kind of a weird "overture" to that too(not really though). That's the main difference between these and the other instrumentals, although I think I already made my point before .

Interesting... Where did you get this information? Did somebody said it in an interview? Do you have a link please?

[Invisible]

Interview on YouTube, I think it was one of the series the band did before the album was released, all I can remember of it was that it was JP and JLB on it, and the camera kept zooming in their faces somewhat randomly . I'll try to find it, but it was quite some time ago, but I thinki it's among the Roadrunner ones.

[Invisible]

Found it! It's 20:30 into the interview so I had to hear it all over again, phew... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNdWk45TsU

The good stuff comes at 10-15 minutes into the interview, everything before it's pretty boring, I warn you . (And NO, I have no idea what the questions are, I don't even know exactly what language it is) It wasn't before the album, I had that fact mixed up.

[Laughingplace56]

I wonder what would've closed the album then. Nothing else from it is strong enough to close the album IMO.

[robwebster]

If you consider that originally Illumination Theory was going to be the second track and was changed to the last in the last minute, it's kind of a weird "overture" to that too(not really though). That's the main difference between these and the other instrumentals, although I think I already made my point before

Cripes! I really couldn't imagine that... and then I played them back to back, and they really do flow very well indeed. Although The Enemy Inside was absolutely the right way to kick in, Illumination Theory is... surprisingly coherent, as the beginning of a ride, and the back-to-back flow from one to the other is brilliant. Works much better at the end, the big symphonic bit feels more "earned" at the end of this huge sixty minute odyssey, but I'm genuinely astonished at how well it still fits in pole position. I wonder how the rest of the album was to be structured.

[ETA: Funnily, having just finished the song, the one bit that really does suffer when you pop Illumination Theory at the start of the album, is the instrumental section in The Pursuit of Truth. At the end of the album, that's earnt, especially after they've spent fifty minutes being curt, but at the beginning, it feels like it's stalling, when you really want an opener to get to the point. I can totally imagine that final chord giving way to The Looking Glass, though.]

That's no reason to dismiss FAS as a proper instrumental, though - they didn't move it when they shifted Illumination Theory, it's totally its own statement. That's not me saying you're wrong, it's me saying I don't get it. It's not only a DT instrumental, I think it's an incredibly strong DT instrumental.

I wonder what would've closed the album then. Nothing else from it is strong enough to close the album IMO.

Maybe that's why they wrote the Easter Egg? Alternatively, JP always said he imagined The Bigger Picture closing a live set, maybe The Enemy Inside was in the middle and TBP was at the end? You're right, there isn't another obvious closer.

[Invisible]

It flows very well indeed, although it has too much "closing power" at the end not to be the final song, that's how I feel about it anyway, but it can very well operate to set the mood of the entire album.

Not all the closers have to be grand epics, DT has gotten us used to that lately, even though the last album ended up with a ballad after the "grand song" of the album, but it's not the only way to close an album. Space Dye Vest, Dissapear and Beneath The Surface close very well their respective albums(or discs) and they are not "epics". The problem is that once you're so used at listening the album in a certain way it's hard to shift the idea and consider alternatives. I always experiment on alternative tracklisting for all the albums but I haven't done it for this one yet, I'll have to explore .

One of the ideas I always had was splitting IT like ITPOE was, but I don't think it would work...

By the way, I'm not dismissing anything, I never said the overtures and FAS are less than anything, in fact they are amazing, all I said is they are different, in a different category of DT "non vocal tracks", that's all.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Am I first?......it can't be.... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCH8ndt8qA

[mikeyd23]

Am I first?......it can't be.... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCH8ndt8qA

Well that was... interesting....

[robwebster]

Am I first?......it can't be.... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcCH8ndt8qA

That is completely ludicrous and completely brilliant.

I think I'd have been tempted to go further, put the ballerinas in masks or something, make it totally otherworldly - the song's called Enigma Machine, it was made for ballerinas in gas masks! - but I think that's me looking at it as a music video first and a dance recital second, whereas actually I think it's meant to be the other way round. Love the idea. Very curious, very creative and very cool.

[BlackInk]

I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.

But kudos for thinking outside the box.

[YtseJamittaja]

I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.

But kudos for thinking outside the box.

Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Da Fuq?    WOW........that was frikken bizzare...

[haceeb]

woohoo i liked Ballet Deviare's interpretation of "Enigma Machine" a lot..........this is what i wanted.........it was fucking brilliant 

[cramx3]

I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.

But kudos for thinking outside the box.

Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.

Yea I feel the same. The ballerinas could have been so much better if they seemed to go with the music or even if they looked cooler. That was a cool idea that ended up being very uninteresting in the end. Oh well, I still like the song.

[Another_Won]

I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.

But kudos for thinking outside the box.

Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.

I agree.  It looks like someone added the song to some random video.

[cramx3]

I can't say that I like it, the dancer's make no sense, it looks like they're dancing to something else with Enigma Machine just randomly edited on top of it. For the most part it doesn't look like they're in sync with the actual song at all.

But kudos for thinking outside the box.

Yeah, this. That was horrible at the first. No need for second watch.

Yea I feel the same. The ballerinas could have been so much better if they seemed to go with the music or even if they looked cooler. That was a cool idea that ended up being very uninteresting in the end. Oh well, I still like the song.

Oh and can't wait to hopefully see it live one week today in NYC!

[Jaffa]

I do agree that the dancing and the music don't really sync up all that well, but I think part of that just comes with the territory of trying to choreograph a ballet routine with progressive metal.  All things considered, I thought it was done pretty well and made for a cool video. 

[son_ov_hades]

I loved that video!  The fact that it doesn't sync up is not a bad thing at all, and very common in modern choreography. It would be pretty ridiculous to try to have ballet in crazy time signatures. 

[?]

My reaction is the same as to the song: meh.

[Invisible]

A for effort, but I didn't like it. And it wasn't the appropiate instrumental for this kind of choreography I think, I can imagine pulling off this sort of idea for Eve or Hell's Kitchen or even Stream of Consciousness, all who have a more "structured" flow. But Enigma Machine or Ytse Jam are too irregular and too fast paced to fit. Cool idea, but it didn't do anything for me.