Behind the Veil

[Marion Crane]

Really like the tune.  JP's lead is the best on the record.  Only thing that absolutely makes me cringe every time I hear it is the prechorus/chorus transition.  It is incredibly clunky and has zero flow whatsoever. 

[nikatapi]

I think this song is my favorite overall from this album. I like the chorus, the amazing intro (best thing JR has done in a very long time), the way James sings especially on the first verse, the JP solo, Mangini's drumming...

It's a very refined song, with great flow and very enjoyable to listen to. My most listened track from the album so far.

[ariich]

I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.

I don't see any similarity to Creeping Death there

Really?  I thought it was blatantly obvious that there were similarities. 

Is it just me or is there no one else who hears the similarities?

Definitely, I'd say it's pretty obvious!

[BelichickFan]

After watching the Elizabeth Smart interview on Saturday night the lyrics to this song which were already good IMO became even more magnified and powerful.

Didn't JP say in an interview that theses lyrics were based off of her kidnapping and the kidnapping of the three girls held hostage for years in Cleveland? I thought I remember that revelation from one of the countless interviews.

I came back to this thread for some clarity on this.  I read that it was about the Cleveland kidnapper - and there's clearly some relevance there - but, like you, watching the Elizabeth Smart interview is fit that completely as she was out in public wearing a veil.

Did John say it was about the Cleveland kidnapping specifically or kidnapping in general with that being one ?  Because this fits the Smart case perfectly.

[adamack]

After watching the Elizabeth Smart interview on Saturday night the lyrics to this song which were already good IMO became even more magnified and powerful.

Didn't JP say in an interview that theses lyrics were based off of her kidnapping and the kidnapping of the three girls held hostage for years in Cleveland? I thought I remember that revelation from one of the countless interviews.

I came back to this thread for some clarity on this.  I read that it was about the Cleveland kidnapper - and there's clearly some relevance there - but, like you, watching the Elizabeth Smart interview is fit that completely as she was out in public wearing a veil.

Did John say it was about the Cleveland kidnapping specifically or kidnapping in general with that being one ?  Because this fits the Smart case perfectly.

You're absolutely right in that it definitely fits the Elizabeth Smart story much closer. I had a post earlier in this thread with a couple of links supporting your claim. However, I've gathered some info to support both cases. Check it out:

Case For BtV Being About Cleveland Case:

- I've heard a few people say that JP specifically said it was about the Cleveland kidnapping case.

- The Cleveland case got lots of attention in 2013, as Amanda Berry (one of the girls taken captive) escaped I believe in May 2013. I think this is around the time that DT was writing for the album, if I'm not mistaken. The Elizabeth Smart case broke in 2002, and her kidnapper was sentenced to life in 2011. So 2011 was pretty much the last main event in the timeline of this case, which IMO seems a bit late for a song about it.

- When following the case, I remember reading somewhere that Amanda Berry and the other 2 girls in the Cleveland kidnapping case wore veils sometimes when Ariel Castro let them outside (on only a few occasions)

Case For BtV Being About Elizabeth Smart:

- In an earlier post in this thread, I had posted some links to highly support BtV being about Elizabeth Smart:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328204/Elizabeth-Smart-kidnapper-refused-let-detective-veil.html

and also:

https://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2010/11/elizabeth-smart-the-veil-and-religion.html

- Elizabeth Smart's veil in particular garnered a lot of media attention and articles, so I really think this case may account for the bulk of the central theme of the song.


I think there are really strong clues supporting both cases. What I've personally concluded is that the song may be about kidnapping in general.

I think it is possible that the Cleveland case brought the subject of kidnapping back into the public eye, and this may have gotten DT interested in the topic for a song. So they may have developed a new-found interest in the Elizabeth Smart case after hearing about the Cleveland case, and just went from there.

Hope this helped to spark some thought!

What do you guys think?

[The Stray Seed]

Nice post Adamack, I actually agree with all you've said. Thanks for taking the time to gather all these useful informations.

[The Letter M]

Thanks to adamack for the facts!

FTFY

-Marc.

[bosk1]

I think there are really strong clues supporting both cases. What I've personally concluded is that the song may be about kidnapping in general.

I think it is possible that the Cleveland case brought the subject of kidnapping back into the public eye, and this may have gotten DT interested in the topic for a song. So they may have developed a new-found interest in the Elizabeth Smart case after hearing about the Cleveland case, and just went from there.

I'm guessing, but I would think you probably aren't far off.  I think it is likely that JP heard about one case or the other (or both), and was inspired by the events of the case(s), rather than writing the song specifically about the case(s), if that makes sense.  Again, I don't have any inside information, but that explanation makes sense to me.

[Ħ]

Really solid track. It's been my favorite to listen to this week. The intro has my fist pumping in the air. Seems like a good opener for a second set or maybe an encore.

[gmillerdrake]

Nice post Adamack, I actually agree with all you've said. Thanks for taking the time to gather all these useful informations.

Thanks to adamack for the facts!

FTFY

Yeah, appreciate that Adamack. I'd bet it's along the lines of what Bosk1 said.....inspired by....but nonetheless it's a powerful song musically backed by powerful lyrics. I don't see this song being supplanted as my favorite any time soon. It strikes such a chord with me for some reason.

[adamack]

No prob guys, and yeah I too believe that, as bosk said, it was inspired by the cases rather than about them literally.

It'd be cool to see JP talk on this subject and reveal exactly what the case was for writing the lyrics. One of my top 3 favs on the album, so I'd be very interested to know.

[1neeto]

Can someone please tell me what time sig the first verse is in...I'm too stoned to count out that isht right now.

Also - great tune. Bit of a Rush meets Megadave vibe. A top 2 or 3 song for me, and probs #1 vocally.

I was waiting for someone to mention about the Megadeth vibe. Great song, one of my favorites!

I'm gonna correct myself here. It's not Megadeth, that riff has Creeping Death written all over it.

[Tom Bombadil]

Took me a while to figure out what you guys were talking about with the Creeping Death part, but now I can clearly hear it.

[adamack]

Just to be sure, are you guys talking about the riff in Creeping Death which begins when the song starts, and ends at around 19 seconds in, sounding like the BtV intro riff from around 1:22 til 1:48?

I can see a similarity, and the songs being in the same key adds to the similarity.

Or is it another part in each song that I missed?

[Dream Team]

Well, BTV intro is in triplets but it is in the same key. Funny I never noticed until someone mentioned it though.

[PixelDream]

I really like the riff and JR's string melody just before the main verse riff enters. Easily my favorite part, apart from the guitar solo.

[1neeto]

Just to be sure, are you guys talking about the riff in Creeping Death which begins when the song starts, and ends at around 19 seconds in, sounding like the BtV intro riff from around 1:22 til 1:48?

I can see a similarity, and the songs being in the same key adds to the similarity.

Or is it another part in each song that I missed?

Yeah I'm talking about the beginning. Almost the same chord progression but obviously different rhythm.

[aie]

This song is growing on me more and more.  I still can't get past that "Creeping Death" guitar intro part though.  Knowing what the lyrics are about makes the song more powerful in my opinion.  I love how the mood of the chorus changes when it's coming from the voice of the victim as opposed to the cruel sounding verse describing the kidnapper.

what about 5:43 - 6:18 ...sounds like the main riff of Judas Priests' Victim Of Changes... or is it just me... \m/ cool song though

[JLa]

I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?

[Mladen]

I actually really enjoy the intro. The verses with James singing in Dave Mustaine style are pretty cool and grew on me quite a bit, and the pre-chorus is very catchy. I still find the chorus underwhelming and slightly generic, and the song itself does end rather conventionally as well.

[OsMosis2259]

Behind the Veil has become my favorite on DT12

Love the intro and how it builds up to the Metallica/Megadeth Riff
The Mustaine style of singing in the first verse is pretty badass too.
I was underwhelmed by the chorus when I first heard the track but it's grown on me and is very hook driven
The bridge is great and has JPs best solo on the album IMO
Nice little twist in the last chorus and the main riff at the end

Overall it's a perfect example of a concise DT song without all the extra fat. I feel if this was on BCSL it would have another keyboard/guitar solo section following the first one and it would have been too much.

A great workout track too as well 

[a51502112]

Regarding the Elizabeth Smart story:
I just finished her book and it's as if JP read it also, but I don't think it was released when he wrote the song.
In the book, as she's being lead around town by her captor, she literally says to herself,(paraphrasing) "Someone please look in my eyes. I wish you could see behind my veil. You would recognize that I'm Elizabeth Smart". She also mentions, "hiding in plain sight".

Great book, I highly recommend it.

[?]

So JP has started stealing lyrics from books again...

[KevShmev]

The "hiding in plain sight" line always reminds me of Breaking Bad since Gus once said to Walt, "I hide in plain sight, same as you."

[a51502112]

So JP has started stealing lyrics from books again...

I didn't mean it like that. I'm just mentioning because some are speculating whether or not the song was in part about her.

[?]

So JP has started stealing lyrics from books again...

I didn't mean it like that. I'm just mentioning because some are speculating whether or not the song was in part about her.

Nah, I was just being sarcastic, hence the color.

[hefdaddy42]

I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?

Because it's cool.

[Lowdz]

I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?

Because it's cool.

Why not? Nice gentle intro gives the riff more punch.

[Sycsa]

I like the song, chorus and all, but I'm a bit puzzled by the intro. The French horns and atmospheric stuff - it's nice, but ... why?

Because it's cool.

Why not? Nice gentle intro gives the riff more punch.

Indeed. Contrast - one of the best tools in music.

[aprilethereal]

See the BITS intro

[JLa]

Indeed. Contrast - one of the best tools in music.

Agreed, contrasts are good. However, in a song like Scarred, you have a "calm" intro which grows and evolves into the song we all know, and the intro doesn't feel out of place at all. Still, the 4 minute mark is something completely different than the intro, so you definitely get the contrast. Behind the Veil is more like "atmospheric intro" and then BANG - something completely different. And I don't really "get" that. Hence the "why..?".

[hefdaddy42]

Don't know what else to tell you.  They thought it would be a good intro idea, and it seems to work for most people.

Jarring transitions are a longtime DT hallmark.

[Mladen]

Behind the Veil is more like "atmospheric intro" and then BANG - something completely different. And I don't really "get" that. Hence the "why..?".

Well, it's not completely different. Jordan is still playing the melody he plays in the intro during the heavy riff, and the heavy riff uses the chords played by Jordan in the intro. I think it works really well together.

[wolfking]

I wasn't sure the point of the intro at first, but it's an amazing intro and accentuates the impact of when the song finally kicks in at 1:22.  It is epic IMO.

[King Postwhore]

I never get why people think music has to be one certain way.  "It has to build up!  It has to be a smooth transition, it has to have more balls"  Blah, blah, blah.


It's whatever the musicians want.  It's their creation.  Music and art should have no boundaries.