What are your thoughts on DT12?

[CharlesPL]

Happy 1st Anniversary (23rd premiere in Europe)

[ThatOneGuy2112]

One year later and it's still a great as I recall. It's aged pretty well, at least far better than ADTOE did.

[tiagodon]

Gotta take it out of the drawer and take a listen. DT is coming to my city next week and it would be impolite not being able to sing at least the choruses! 

[RoeDent]

Happy 1st Anniversary, "Dream Theater"! 

[Zydar]

Nice! I'll give it a spin tonight.

[EraVulgaris]

This album feels weird to me. None of the songs bug me or anything, they are just there. I do like Illumination Theory, but thats about it. Rest sounds totally interchangable to me. DT12 and SC are definetly my least favorite albums.

[tiagodon]

Ok, one year now... It´s a good time to reflect about the fact that it is a self-titled album.
After one year, the album did not grow on me. It shrank. I hardly listen to it.
I guess I can say today that the choice of a self-titled album was not the best. A self-titled album that follows many others means that the band wants to deliver a message, something like: this is DT at its best.
Well, it is not! Unless the band has deliberately chosen a different path and we are gonna have more "commercial" albums like this in the future...

[Dark Castle]

Ok, one year now... It´s a good time to reflect about the fact that it is a self-titled album.
After one year, the album did not grow on me. It shrank. I hardly listen to it.
I guess I can say today that the choice of a self-titled album was not the best. A self-titled album that follows many others means that the band wants to deliver a message, something like: this is DT at its best.
Well, it is not! Unless the band has deliberately chosen a different path and we are gonna have more "commercial" albums like this in the future...

[nicmos]

I think it's about where it was when it came out.  Pretty low in my DT album ranking.  I am also perplexed by the self-titling of it.  The only thing I can figure is they feel like they've taken the shredding and progginess about as far as they can take it, and pulled a Permanent Waves, where they are starting to focus on songs that they enjoy playing, but that don't push the boundaries anymore.  Of course these can be great songs too, but I just don't enjoy a lot of the songs on DT12 that much.  I probably listen to Enemy, Veil, AFTR, Surrender, and IT.  But even of those, I think Surrender is the only song I would say couldn't use some improvement, I think that one will stand the test of time.  IT is mostly really enjoyable, but I don't think the solo at the end is nearly as good as people think it is.  Razor's Edge is miles better.

</rant>

I don't have a problem with DT making the music that they want to make at this point.  I don't think it's about being commercial for them, even though most of the songs were "simpler".  I'll buy their next album when it comes out.  Hopefully it will be a return to form sort of like BCSL was way better than SC (and of course people are free to flame me for that opinion )  But if I'm right, that means their next album could be their Moving Pictures, and that's not bad!.

[bl5150]

like BCSL was way better than SC (and of course people are free to flame me for that opinion ) 

No need for flaming - that barely qualifies as a compliment 

[RoeDent]

I'd just like to say, as I listen to it on its first anniversary, that DT12 is a really really really good album! I'm listening to each song and just thinking "Oh yeah!".

[Podaar]

Ok, one year now... It´s a good time to reflect about the fact that it is a self-titled album.
After one year, the album did not grow on me. It shrank. I hardly listen to it.
I guess I can say today that the choice of a self-titled album was not the best. A self-titled album that follows many others means that the band wants to deliver a message, something like: this is DT at its best.
Well, it is not! Unless the band has deliberately chosen a different path and we are gonna have more "commercial" albums like this in the future...

[TAC]

The only thing missing is a quarter taped to the needle!

[Wardy]

Might even have an even better appreciation for the record now than I did back when released!? 

Knowing the tunes inside out but finding as much enjoyment outta them and at times a little more discovery after a year makes for a very good record.  Can absolutely say the self titled Dream Theater is without doubt their strongest record since the 90's IMO!

[tiagodon]

DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.

[Polarbear]

Listened to DT12 again last week. It's not that bad TBH, but i don't love it either.
The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine and Surrender To Reason are all fun songs!

[erwinrafael]

I think I am one of the more vocal fans of DT12 and I just want to add that I appreciate what DT attempted in this album. They have said publicly that they want to be straight to the point in this album to showcase how tight they are as a unit these days. And by doing so, they have let go of the "crutch" of relying on their instrumental virtuosity to carry their songs. So they just focused on writing good songs, and, for me, it succeeded. I appreciate how tight theie instrumentals are in this album. No wasted notes, even in the long Illumination Theory. I look back at the SC/BC&SL days and remember how much of the songs are actually weak but are just propped up by good instrumentals. I am glad they have tried to rid of that crutch.

I think this translated into their live set. They got rid of the crutch of Images and Words, which is their fallback to prop up their live set. And they just delivered one of their best sets ever.

[aprilethereal]

DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.

So in your opinion, it doesn't stand the test of time because it's DT's twelfth album, but if it was the debut album by some other band it would? I'm sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.

[tiagodon]

DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.

So in your opinion, it doesn't stand the test of time because it's DT's twelfth album, but if it was the debut album by some other band it would? I'm sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.

No. If it was a debut from a new band we wouldn't be talking about test of time, because there would be no time to test, no previous work to compare the album to. DT has covered a lot of ground. When I look back to their catalog I realize I can't find anything in DT12 that renders me similar musical pleasure.
IMO, DT is not a competitive band with short and "more commercial" songs. They are competitive with long songs, with many changes of dynamics and tempo. That's what they should concentrate on doing.

[aprilethereal]

DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.

So in your opinion, it doesn't stand the test of time because it's DT's twelfth album, but if it was the debut album by some other band it would? I'm sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.

No. If it was a debut from a new band we wouldn't be talking about test of time, because there would be no time to test, no previous work to compare the album to.

At least for me, if an album stands the test of time, I'm still able to enjoy it as much as I did in the beginning, after some time has passed. That has nothing to do with comparing it to previous work by the same artist.

[Enigmachine]

think I am one of the more vocal fans of DT12 and I just want to add that I appreciate what DT attempted in this album. They have said publicly that they want to be straight to the point in this album to showcase how tight they are as a unit these days. And by doing so, they have let go of the "crutch" of relying on their instrumental virtuosity to carry their songs. So they just focused on writing good songs, and, for me, it succeeded. I appreciate how tight the instrumentals are in this album. No wasted notes, even in the long Illumination Theory. I look back at the SC/BC&SL days and remember how much of the songs are actually weak but are just propped up by good instrumentals. I am glad they have tried to rid of that crutch.

I think this translated into their live set. They got rid of the crutch of Images and Words, which is their fallback to prop up their live set. And they just delivered one of their best sets ever.

I agree with this. The songs are becoming more focussed and are offering more in six minutes than they would before in about ten. However, I think they may have gone a bit too far in that regard as I feel like AftR and StR may have benifitted from having a bit more room to breathe, as a few transitions come off as either forced or rushed. Still a great album though.

But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.

Wait, how can we tell if an album 'stands the test of time' when it has only been out for one year? That's nowhere near the amount of time needed to gain a more proper perspective on an album, especially when DT haven't even released the next one.

[erwinrafael]

I agree with this. The songs are becoming more focussed and are offering more in six minutes than they would before in about ten. However, I think they may have gone a bit too far in that regard as I feel like AftR and StR may have benifitted from having a bit more room to breathe, as a few transitions come off as either forced or rushed. Still a great album though.

Surrender to Reason could indeed use a longer killer solo, especially with the way they approached the instrumental that sounds like an unstructured jam session.

[KevShmev]

DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.

Two years later, I think it is aging just fine.  I gave it a whirl this weekend and my reaction was the same as always: a damn fine album that is really consistent.  It's an easy, effortless listen, since there is nothing that makes me want to skip over it.  It might not have any top tier DT songs (I wouldn't put anything from it in my top 20), but it is an album filled with nothing but 8s and 9s (out of 10).  You won't find a lot of bands whose 12th album is this good.

[goo-goo]

I, for some reason, have been skipping on Along for the Ride a lot. I also tend to skip Surrender to Reason but not as often as AftR. Other than that, the album has really aged for me. Love the Rush vibe I get out of this album. Would of liked that IT had more vocal sections since JLB shines on this track.

[Cable]

I revoted a year later to decent. As I DT fan, I enjoy the album. But it might be starting to fall down a bit. I can no longer keep it near my mid range DT albums. As a more unbiased fan, I could see it being meh-to decent to an outside perspective.

However, the nice thing about DT is I always see new fans post here and elsewhere. And DT seem to continuously make new fans and a sustain a chunk of old fans. Some older fans leave, but they gain enough new ones each album to make do with what they lost. As I mentioned in the Controversial thread, I think DT12 may be a transitionary album. I didn't get into Megadeth after Dave's hiatus, but I think DT12 could be similar to The World Needs A Hero in the respect of it bridging back, or to a different style.

[Shattered Glass]

When it came out, I really was not really receptive to it, but I knew the reasons why.  A year later, and getting ready for the DT tour I went  through a phase where it was the only DT album that I wanted to listen to.  It's a massive album, with rockin' sections, and beautifully melodic sections and spaced out sections.  I am lucky to say that it's improved for me with time. 

[zecawolf]

my first thought was "decent". now I love it. It's in my top 5, which are:

SC
BCSL
ADTOE
ToT
DT12

I know, this fits perfectly in the controversial opinion thread. Sue me.

[JediKnight1969]

my first thought was "decent". now I love it. It's in my top 5, which are:

SC
BCSL
ADTOE
ToT
DT12

I know, this fits perfectly in the controversial opinion thread. Sue me.

Well... I agree that SC, BCSL, ADTOE & ToT are way better than DT12; which was a huge disappointment for me.

See you in Court.

[zecawolf]

I do not like at all pre Rudess DT. The obvious exception is ACoS....and one song here and there.

[Riitasointi]

I listened to this album yesterday and my old opinion still stands. There are few things wrong with DT12 but I still don't really get much joy out of it. The initial charm of Illumination Theory has kinda worn off too. The Bigger Picture is probably the best song here. Overall I'd put this somewhere between the bottom and the middle in terms of DT album ranking.

[Siddhartha]

For me it is still the worst DT album.

A couple of ok songs, the rest meh, and the sound of the album is awful.

[BlackInk]

I dropped in here just to see what I wrote and voted when it first came out, and I was very surprised to find that I voted "decent". All my initial denial has worn off, and these days I would vote "disappointing" without hesitating. Basically I agree with the post above mine, (aside from WD&DU) this is the worst and most uninspired album they have ever done.

[Lucien]

I voted instant classic, now would probably vote decent or even meh

[Implode]

I voted decent as well. Changing my vote to meh. It just has almost no relisten value.

[gmillerdrake]

I still listen to this at least once a week. I enjoy it greatly. It's certainly not DT's most complex output.....but the refined nature of it all appeals to me. I like the controlled songwriting of it all....there are no 4 or 5 minutes 'forced' into any of the songs ***cough cough**** ANTR ***cough cough*** and I like the overall 'feel' of the album.

As with any entertainment output....it's all about expectation and with DT these days I'm not expecting another AWAKE or 6DoIT...or Scenes. I just don't. I take what they give me and appreciate that they still produce music.