What are your thoughts on DT12?

[noahl]

Well, please no one take offense.
I absolutely do not care for it--I'm quite sure it'll grow on me a tad, but the worst song is Enigma Machine. Don't get me wrong, I think the talent is remarkable, however, there's no satisfaction when it ends, it just doesn't do it for me.
My favorite song would have to be the looking glass, great song, very catchy.
I bow down to them all, even MM, for the efforts, all though one of my least favorite albums.

[noahl]

Yep, when I met them at the meet and greet, I asked where they got the idea from, and they said "some angry European".

Lars Ulrich ?

Using this as my signature.

[Miss Bangkok]

I guess overall I've been disappointed with DT12, but I'm glad others seem to be enjoying it. I'm just really ready for the band to shake things up, and try something new. I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.  There's nothing real inherently wrong with the album, the songs are solid and well written, but they just have too much of a "been there done that" feel to them. I do really like "The Looking Glass" and "Surrender to Reason", though. They remind me of that same awesome vibe when I first heard them in '92. As for the other tunes, here are my thoughts:

-The Enemy Inside: basic mainstream metal track, sappy/bubble-gummy chorus, DT-by-numbers instrumental section...don't much care for Jordan's "Toy Story" section. Killer solo by JP though.

-Enigma Machine: super boring, feels like they wrote this song strictly with the intent of showcasing each members playing ability, which, at this point in the game I'm not really interested in...we all know they can play. I'm more interested in a composition that moves me; a tune that really tells a story (like Erotomania, Hell's Kitchen, Stream of Consiousness). It just feels like a bunch of mishmashed riffs; an instrumental for the sake of featuring an instrumental. It just doesn't seem like a very mature composition.

-The Bigger Picture: Has some cool moments musically, but the bubble-gummy chorus ruins it for me.

-Behind The Veil: Again, awesome musical moments, but a really sappy chorus...

-Along For The Ride: Not bad, I actually don't mind it, but I don't find myself wanting to hear it again.

-Illumination Theory: Feels like left over material from the Systematic Chaos sessions; upon my first listen it all sounded very familiar. It doesn't really flow well, seems very disjointed, and while I like the middle section, it seems out of place. Awesome performance by JLB though.

I'm glad the boys are having fun on the road though---I did get to catch them live this tour, and it's probably the best stage production they've had so far---awesome video/lighting.

[TheGreatPretender]

I listened to the album again today, and upon reflecting on it, I have to say, it's still growing on me! I can't think of any other DT album that I loved right off the bat, whose enjoyment didn't plateau for me after a few months. But the more I listen to DT12, the more I enjoy and appreciate it. 

[tiagodon]

I listened to the album again today, and upon reflecting on it, I have to say, it's still growing on me! I can't think of any other DT album that I loved right off the bat, whose enjoyment didn't plateau for me after a few months. But the more I listen to DT12, the more I enjoy and appreciate it. 

Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!

[bosk1]

I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format. 

Newsflash!  Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).

[The Stray Seed]

Looks like a certain amount of people were disappointed by the album. I'm just trying to understand why, since I am a huge fan of the self titled. My personal thought is that Dream Theater has set the bar so high that almost anything they put out at this point will be disappointing to some people. If a brand new band would make an album as good as DT12, it would be acclaimed as an absolute masterpiece.

[wasteland]

I'm trying to listen to ADTOE and DT back to back and see what happens. I've never done that before!

By the way, I found myself staring at this:



and headbanging myself right in the middle of THAT riff in Lost Not Forgotten. It was absolutely perfect 

[The Stray Seed]

And your avatar just perfectly fits the situation!!!!!!!!! xDDD

I've pictured your face changing like that and I just began to roll on the floor 

[SuperTaco]

I'm trying to listen to ADTOE and DT back to back and see what happens. I've never done that before!

By the way, I found myself staring at this:

and headbanging myself right in the middle of THAT riff in Lost Not Forgotten. It was absolutely perfect 

More people should be distracted and inspired by anime! *random comment of the day*

[theaterdream]

When I first heard the stream of The Enemy Inside I was incredibly disappointed.  I thought to myself "Here's another DT album I'm not gonna like". I'm referring to the couple of albums ( SC and BCSL).  I just hated TEI. Still do. I always skip it. After loving ADTOE I thought they had reverted to the styles of those past all metal albums. Much to my surprise, I love DT. James is singing great these days. He's not straining to hit notes out of his range. Almost like they are writing more to his style. My favorites are TBP, TLG, STR AND IT. Just fix the wall of noise mastering issue and add a better song than TEI and I would have voted classic.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Listened to the album again last night. Easily one of my favorites of theirs.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!

Except, it was incredibly beautiful to begin with. And like I said, after a few months of listening to their other albums, I reached a plateau of how much I enjoy those songs. I wasn't listening to Train of Thought 10 months after I first heard it, thinking, "Man these songs are just getting better and better!" And that sure as hell didn't happen with the past two albums.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!

Gonna agree with Pretender on this one. I don't think anyone here has said that they just hated this album and completely ass-blasted it from the get-go but ended up hailing it as a DT masterpiece (though maybe that's happened to someone somewhere, who knows?).

It isn't uncommon for music to grow on you, especially in the case of prog metal where it requires several listens to really digest. For me, I'd say the album went from being a 7/10 to a strong 8/10. Yeah, doesn't look like a huge difference, but even as I listen now, I enjoy it very thoroughly. It's clear you don't like it, sure, but there's no need to come up with excuses how others might.

[tiagodon]

Very interesting!
With me was the other way around. The album went from being a 8/10 to a 6/10.
It didn´t grow on me. It shrank! 

[Rattlehead]

I was one of the people who voted "meh" nearly a year ago after I had first listened to the album. That quickly changed in a matter of weeks, as I began to enjoy every track on the album after just a few more listens. If I were to rank their discography today, DT12 would be somewhere around the middle.

[JPX]

Very interesting!
With me was the other way around. The album went from being a 8/10 to a 6/10.
It didn´t grow on me. It shrank! 

 

It's a 3 song album for me (TEI/TLG/BTV) and even then, those get boring quick. I voted meh when it came out and I feel exactly the same, definitely a lower tier album. Just part of the DT decline since Octavarium.

[The Stray Seed]

Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!

Please, be my Master.

[Viking of the Sagas]

I rated "meh" in the beginning, then it kinda grew on me, and now it sounds boring again! I don't know what's up with that.

[Enigmachine]

I think it's probably a good idea to speak my opinion of DT's latest album after I just introduced myself in the appropriate thread.

With the first few listens, I thought it was absolutely amazing and quite possibly the best album DT had ever put out. However, it's worn off me a fair bit since nearly a year has passed since the release date. I think it might be the fact that because it isn't exactly a subtle album; even the so-called 'ballads' are heavy for at least half their duration (with 'TBP' only being quiet for less than a minute of its total seven minutes!) As a result, the album starts to fatigue me after a while, especially with the "in-your-face" sound. This may be mistaken for me not being a fan of relentlessly heavy albums, but some of my favourite music is within the more extreme end of the metal spectrum. But the thing is, if you look at some of the most well recieved metal albums, they hover around the forty minute mark, with  ones significantly above having a contrast somewhere on the album (e.g. 'Welcome Home' on Metallica's 'Master of Puppets'), which DT12 doesn't have enough of, given its 68 minute length. To fix this, I think this tracklist would probably be more like this:

1. Behind the Veil 6:52
2. The Bigger Picture 7:40
3. Surrender to Reason 6:34
4. Along for the Ride 4:45
5. The Enemy Inside 6:17
6. Illumination Theory 19:16
7. Outro 2:01

53:25

I know I just cut out three tracks, but consider listening to it like this, because although it seems short, Images and Words had three songs cut from it and is considered the best DT album by many people with some even considering it perfect. Not all albums have to break the hour mark! Also, did the album require 'FAS', 'TLG' and 'EM' (even though I named myself after the song, I don't love it)? 'FAS' could've been a bonus track and a live-only song and I'm not entirely sure if they will keep using it on tours for future albums, 'TLG' is quite unneccesary when we have 'Limelight' by Rush and despite having an awesome main riff, 'EM' seems like a glorified instrumental section for a vocal song such as 'Constant Motion' unlike some other instrumentals in DT's discography like 'The Dance of Eternity' or 'Hell's Kitchen' due to it's lack of variety and insistance of almost constant soloing after about two minutes.

However I still think this is a great album, and a step in the right direction considering the more consise song lengths, improved (if still cheesy) lyrics and a more song-oriented approach. Additionally, there is some thing I've noticed with some DT albums: they work on some complaints of the previous album and sometimes overdo it.

-'ADTOE' complaints were mainly (I'm talking in general, not just here) that it had too many ballads, weak sound and merely good drumming.
-This album turned out to have more heaviness, an overwhelming sound and Mangini "unleashed".

-'ToT' was criticised for being too monotone in sound.
-'Octavarium' was one of the more varied DT albums.

-'FII' was criticised for being too "commercialised".
-'SFaM' was the most complex DT album at the time.

-'SC' was criticised for being unfocused and self indulgent.
-'BCaSL' was more cohesive and emotional (apart from 'ARoP').

Maybe those who disliked this album may love the next album? Time can only tell.

[sneakyblueberry]

I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format. 

Newsflash!  Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).

Oh god not this again.

Ultimately I was pretty underwhelmed by it.  Black Clouds was the last DT album that did anything for me, which is sad as I WANT to like the new stuff - I just see little reason to.

[FracturedMirror]

Very interesting!
With me was the other way around. The album went from being a 8/10 to a 6/10.
It didn´t grow on me. It shrank! 

That's how I feel as well.  I thought it would be a grower like Octavarium (personally, I didn't like it originally), but whenever I want to listen to DT it's rarely one that I reach for to put in the cd player.  I have to make a conscious decision to listen to it; I just don't get that feeling of "I really want to listen to DT12 right now" very often.  It just doesn't resonate with me as strongly as their other albums.

[Viking of the Sagas]

I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format. 

Newsflash!  Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).

That's the way the members themselves define prog though. Evolution of sound.

[ZKX-2099]

I voted Instant classic when this thread was first posted and still feel the same.

[Dark Castle]

I voted Instant classic when this thread was first posted and still feel the same.

Ditto.

[bosk1]

I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format. 

Newsflash!  Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).

That's the way the members themselves define prog though. Evolution of sound.

That is decidedly incorrect.

[Viking of the Sagas]

That's what I remember from a Metal Evolution interview at least.

[ZKX-2099]

I love how most of the songs are short (for DT) yet are so densely packed with all kinds of great moments.

It's been a year and I still listen to it regularly.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

That's what I remember from a Metal Evolution interview at least.

Even if that were true, they can't define what progressive music is anymore than you can.

[TheGreatPretender]

The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music. So let's not have this discussion again.

Honestly, I think as far as mislabeling music goes, DT's style is one that should've been called closer to something along the lines of Symphonic Metal or even Classical Metal. Not because of the types of instrumentations they use (although they're no strangers to classical instruments), but because of their structures. DT's music is structured a lot like classical music, following examples of sonatas, symphonies, suites etc. That's what would define classical influences in music for me.

Whereas that which we call Symphonic Metal now, bands like Nightwish, Within Temptation, etc, should really be called Operatic Metal or something of the sort, because they focus on the instrumentations, and a certain vocal style, rather than on how their songs are structured. Other than bands like Epica, which also have a lot of very classical structures in their songs.

[goo-goo]

Along for the Ride, Surrender to Reason, and Enigma Machine seem to be the weakest tracks imo. Most of the times I end up skipping these tracks. I keep returning to The Looking Glass, Illumination Theory, The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil (which I have appreciated more as of lately).

[TheGreatPretender]

Along for the Ride, Surrender to Reason, and Enigma Machine seem to be the weakest tracks imo. Most of the times I end up skipping these tracks. I keep returning to The Looking Glass, Illumination Theory, The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil (which I have appreciated more as of lately).

Well, I'm not sure I agree, but regardless, even if those are the weakest, that says a lot for just how amazing this album is. Honestly, there's not a single song on it that I'd throw away. Everything has its place on the album.

[Sycsa]

I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.

The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music.

Besides the typical instruments, atmosphere, virtuosity, lengthy and complex songs, progressive music, to me, means that there is progression within a song, it starts out a certain way, then evolves, changes its tone, tempo, time signature, takes you on a journey. That puts the progression in progressive music, not changing the sound every single album, that would be just silly.

[Lucien]

I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.

The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music.

Besides the typical instruments, atmosphere, virtuosity, lengthy and complex songs, progressive music, to me, means that there is progression within a song, it starts out a certain way, then evolves, changes its tone, tempo, time signature, takes you on a journey. That puts the progression in progressive music, not changing the sound every single album, that would be just silly.

Prog doesn't even HAVE to be virtuosic.

[Sycsa]

No, and it doesn't have to have keyboards or longs songs either (Gentle Giant, the most complex prog band of all time typically had 5 minute songs). Having all these in prog isn't imperative, they just occur often enough for me to call them 'typical characteristics'.