What are your thoughts on DT12?

[N4Player]

Love the diverse opinions here. Actually makes me listen closer to the parts that resonate with the majority. Really great to see how into it everyone is regardless whether they like it or not. I've given it more runs today and have come away with the same feelings I had yesterday. Completely forgettable for me, but the enthusiasm from the band and the freshness do make me smile. TEI and BTV are the only ones I want to listen to and have a desire to come back to. I love them. TLG is growing a little more but I think it's because of the guitar solo that I like it. The orchestra is awful and kills it for me. Seriously comes in at the wrong times and the compositions are so generic and Disney it ruins the album. It sounds like an out of place 6th member that isn't up to snuff and I'm waiting for Julie Andrews to start singing. I hate the Rush sounding elements too. Nothing wrong with showing your influences, just sounds forced and unnatural in the way that the songs you hear it in eventually play out. Given the 4 guys in the room, Enigma Machine is a letdown. I'll take SOC any day. Illumination Theory is terribly disjointed. Nothing epic about it. The rest of the songs do nothing for me. There are times on the album where I have no idea that one song has ended and another has begun or that in fact I am still on the same song. Musical movements instead of songs encapsulated in a wall of sound that eventually tires me. The weird thing is that there are so many killer moments all over the place, but the way it is arranged ruins it. All the ingredients are there but the end product doesn't deliver. I'll play the heck out of TEI and BTV and they will rank way up there for me. I'm not going to nitpick any one member of the band, but I will say that John Petrucci is the only one that delivers consistently on this album. His performance and musicality outshine the others by a country mile. 10 years of enjoying each release in its own right and to be thoroughly disappointed once by a release is a fantastic run. No other band has ever accomplished that in my book. No complaints here, just reasons why DT 12 doesn't do it for me. Looking forward to the tour and the direction that they take from here. My support won't waver, not a damn chance. Stoked for the 'evening with' shows.

[ResultsMayVary]

It's been a while since Dream Theater has written a section like the beginning of Illumination Theory, which is just a massive fucking riff factory. 

[Filipe_metalhead]

False Awakening Suite - A really good opener IMO. This one will work really well to open the concerts, with a cool screenplay.

The Enemy Inside - Since the first listen, I got addicted. Great riffing, great chorus, great song.

The Looking Glass - What a fantastic tune! I loved the atmosphere of this one. And also, I loved the 'Innocence Faded' vibe.

Enigma Machine - Well, I was expecting something different from that song. I was hoping that it was sound more like Ytsejam or even Dance Of Eternity, but it's more riff-driven and heavy...but I still like the song.

The Bigger Picture - With a really strong melody, this song is REALLY catchy. During the first listening, I imagined myself singing this one in a DT concert. IMO this is one of the most beatiful DT songs I've ever heard.

Behind The Veil - Well, I was expecting something differente from that song [2]. But not like I said about EM. I was expecting that this song would be a really straight forward metal track, and it is not. This song has heaviness, soul and is very dynamic. One of my favorite songs of this album.

Surrender To Reason - A classic DT track IMO. I really enjoyed the lyrics of this song...it's really meaningful and deep. And I love when the lyrics of a song makes you dive into the story. I was really looking forward to listen to this one...and I wasn't disappointed.

Along For The Ride - I wasn't expecting a song like that. When the songs starts, I was not the only one who reminded of Beneath The Surface. But this turns out to be a very different track IMO. Mangini really does a great work in this song...and I was really impressed with the bass tone in JR's solo. A beautiful song, that I can see myself singing along in a DT concert too.

Illumination Theory - What can I say about this song??? An amazing epic. I love the FII vibe that surrounds the starting riffs of this song...and I also can hear some Take The Time influence too. As the song flows, I really travel with the lyrics and the melody...it's AWESOME! And I gotta say that James really, really, really shines in IT. The 'stacatto' section that starts right after the orchestra breakdown...is one of the GREATEST things I heard from DT of all time. Really.

To me, this album is a classic. There are no weak songs...but also, all the songs sounds really inspired and strong.

This!!!

Great comment man.

I got goosebumps when the string section on the Illumination Theory arrived...

The album is PERFECT imo...

[kirksnosehair]

I've listened 5 times now.  The only part of the album that gets a bit tedious for me is that kind of long symphony section in the last track. 


The trick for me now will be to try not to wear this album out.  So I went ahead and bought 3 others on Amazon's MP3 store today to keep me busy.

[Slain]

I don't understand everyone's complaint that the lyrics are "preachy"? I think they're generally just positive and uplifting. I don't think they have to be interpreted as overtly religious at all. In fact I think it's a bit of a stretch to interpret them like that, and I am religious.

Anyway they write them in a way that they don't even have to be interpreted as religious. 

This is the way I see it. I'm not religious at all, and I like to interpret the lyrics as hopeful, not spiritual. I ranked the album as Very Strong. The only way for it to become a classic in my mind is if it holds up. I loved A Dramatic Turn of Events when it was released and I probably would have rated it Very Strong then, but now my enthusiasm for it has waned a bit, and it would end up falling under decent. The Looking Glass and Illumination Theory are the two standouts for me so far, and I think all of the choruses on the album as strong as they have been since 8VM.

[blackspot]

this is the best ALBUM they've done in years!! I'm absolutely blown away .

Behind the Veil is just awesome , amazing riff, hope they make this one the next single with a great video too . JP solo is amazing on this song .

This  album is going to be great live


Bravo DT Bravo

[MetalJens]

Instant classic! Maybe not after the first listen, but after about 5-6 it's just ridiculously awesome! Up there with the best, I just hope it remains that way after a gazillion listens 

[DeanTheater]

I voted instant classic. I have listened to the stream 4 times.  It is DT's BEST since SDOIT!  This album has so much atmosphere and emotion.  IT is an instant classic and will be called for by fans at the live shows constantly.  The ending of IT just gave me tingles and a massive hardon.  Great stuff. 
Highlights for me:

TLG entire song.  Chorus is such a sing along.
BTV amazing riff.  Love the cinematic opening. JR was impressive here and on IT as well.
STR will be played for many years live.  such a beautifully written piece.
TBP great heartfelt and mood setting  piece

Thank you DT for your continuing endeavors to treat us with your brilliance in song structuring, virtuosity and emotion all tied together in a pretty knot.

[zepp-head]

Okay, this is faring MUCH better this time around.

LOVE the Easter egg.  It's like they pulled it right out of my head.

[Lucidity]

I have a feeling most people will love it, but I'm curious to see what everyone's initial thoughts are on the album. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed, but maybe it just hasn't clicked with me yet. It just seems less memorable and interesting than previous releases. But there's still a long way to go before I'm completely acquainted with the album.

Disappointed unfortunately.  I am glad others like it and I wish I did too.  I like what they tried to do.  I have been wanted them to go back to the Awake or even Falling to Infinity formula for a while.  Catchy quality songs with great instrumental moments rather than the SC way of throwing in a long solo just for the sake of it.

I do like the album but for me it is one of Dream Theater's weakest efforts song wise.  (A below average DT album is still great compared to other music out there)


Song impressions

False AS - Reminds me of Overture form Six Degrees.  Fine as an intro piece.

The Enemy Inside - The Heavy Track (like The Glass Prison of Six Degrees) or The Root of All Evil from Octavarium.  Solid song but far from Dream Theater's best.

The Looking Glass - Up beat and reminds me of Don't Look Past Me from Cleaning out the Closet.  It is an OK song that ends abruptly and leaves a weird taste.  I actually like Don't Look Past Me better personally.

Enigma Machine - They play their instruments great on the song but it is not very catchy or memorable.   I wish they would stop doing instrumentals on albums honestly.  They have enough going on in their songs that they don't need to waste the album space unless the instrumental is simply amazing.    I will probably end up skipping this one.  Sounds like something they would throw in the middle of a song to needlessly stretch it out on something like the SC album.  Rather would have had a song here with vocals to make the album feel more complete.

The Bigger Picture - Best song on the album so far for me.  Nice melodic song with a lot going on.  I actually felt something in this song.  I love when JP can convey emotion through his guitar (like the soft section in Lines in the Sand)

Behind the Veil - Something is off for me.  I lose interest part way through the song.  I think I will like it better with more listens but as of now it is not memorable to me.  I feel like I should like it though.

Surrender to Reason - Another one that I think I will like better on repeated listens.  Still not clicking with me though.  Thought I would like it better after reading some of the comments.

Along for the Ride - 2nd best track on the album but I still like the ADTOEs ballads better.  This Is The Life, Far From Heaven, and Beneath The Surface are more heart felt and are more catchy to me.

IT - Think I will like it better after repeated listens but am disappointed.  The song feels like different songs spliced together and doesn't flow as well as epics like Octavarium and A Change of Seasons.  Something feels off about the flow.  I like some of Jame's vocal moments.  He did a great job singing on this one....the melody just doesn't click with me though.

Like I said.  I hope I like it a lot more after repeated listens but I think it is one of their weakest albums so far.


I realize that there is quality on the album but for me the songs didn't grab me.  Most just aren't catchy,  memorable, or pleasing to my ears.

Still a huge fan and will buy whatever they put out and I commend them for their attempt.  Glad others enjoy it.


As of now after 3 listens I would rank it next to the bottom in album rankings.  Hope this changes.

Images
Scenes
Awake
Falling
Six Degrees
Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
ADTOE
Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
Black Clouds
SC
ToT
DT (Self Titled)
WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice)

I think I agree with all of this. Not to say it's not a good album, but I will say it's the album I was hoping it wouldn't be.

[Jay.Ess]

After the first few listens, I didn't really like The Bigger Picture.


Now I f****** love it.

[j]

I voted "very strong," although I'm not really comfortable committing to that after 3 listens.  This album is sort of...confusing to me (for lack of sufficient vocabulary to convey what I'd like to), but my feelings on it are generally positive so far, with the following exceptions.

Not a huge fan of either instrumental.  There is some cool stuff in Enigma Machine, but I sort of knew when they announced their first instrumental in awhile that they would opt for the technical craziness route a la TDOE.  Which is fine, but difficult for a non-musician like myself to appreciate.

Based on what I read here, I had very high expectations for IT going in, and it did not meet them initially.  I enjoyed it a lot more this third and most recent time I listened to it, but I'm still not sure what it is that keeps it from grabbing me.  TCoT for example, with all its flaws as the lone bright spot on a bad album, totally pimp slapped me with both its intro and climactic ending and I instantly knew it was a song I'd come back to.  It could have something to do with my feeling that some of the melodies in the orchestral section and main theme of IT have been done before, and I've heard them elsewhere.  But all that aside, there is some great stuff going on in the song regardless.

But the easter egg, Jesus Christ.  One of the greatest things DT have ever put to record, shame that it's relegated to the ass end of their 854th album.   And like somebody said, it's definitely reminiscent of the Smashing Pumpkins' Mellon Collie, in a good way.

The rest of the album is very solid, impressive union of composition, technicality, and melody.  People say that about every DT album, but in the recent past, one or more of those elements is usually absent (hint: never technicality lol).  I thought TEI was pretty weak on release, but even it has grown on me, as has the other single.  The other songs are all interesting but will require further listens to process.  Lyrics sound improved to some degree from what I can tell.

One thing I will say is as much as this is hardly the radical departure from prog metal I wish DT would explore, it definitely makes ADTOE--which far surpassed the band's 4 prior efforts--look very safe by comparison.

-J

[7StringedBeast]

After the first few listens, I didn't really like The Bigger Picture.


Now I f****** love it.

I AM HOOOOOOOOOOOOME.  Brilliant.

[hefdaddy42]

I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.

You may be right.  Hard to say for sure without having the lyrics to read along with, but to the ear there is nothing embarassing, and everything sounds pretty good.

[Nearmyth]

This might be a mostly personal opinon, but I feel like I would like the flow of the album better if The Bigger Picture came after TEI, so instead it goes FAS - TEI - TBP - EM - TLG - etc. I just feel like it's a much better follow up than The Looking Glass, and TLG is a much better follow up to Enigma Machine. Just a little nitpicking of the track order

But I must agree on the TBP praise, it's a glorious song. Second favorite from the album behind IT.

Opinion on the album is very strong  Definitely a grower. I didn't "get" Enigma Machine or Surrender To Reason at first, now I love STR and... EM still has time to grow, it's an underwhelming instrumental to me. It's kinda just there to me. As a stand alone song it's pretty good though.

IT makes the album. Nuff said 

Also, I have not encountered one tad of cheesy or cringe worthy lyrics, they're all great. Personal favs in the lyrics department are Surrender To Reason and IT probably.

[faizoff]

So after listening to the stream yesterday back to back I think about 7 or 8 times, I gave it a rest. When I first listened to the stream yesterday at work, I got goosebumps and felt weirdly emotional when listening to the entire album. Song after song same thing happened on first listen.

Today after work and with some peace and quiet I listen to the whole album again and frickin hell goosebumps all over again. I honestly don't remember this happening with an entire album before. I've been listening to DT since Images and words when it first came out and have been an ardent fan of the band. Even when there were albums and phases I didn't care at all for the band I still bought every single album, live release, bootleg, etc whatever I could do to still support the band. The past 3 albums for me personally have been huge.
After Systematic Chaos and Chaos In Motion I was really debating if I would invest much in the band anymore, black clouds changed that in a huge way. In some ways DT12 feels like the zenith from Black Clouds to ADTOE to DT12.

Like emtee said time is the real true test and I still constantly spin ADTOE on a regular basis as well as Black clouds. Man the guitar solos in Illumination Theory (13:00 onwards) and The Bigger Picture (3:30~) just slays me every single time I listen to them.

[gmillerdrake]

I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.

You may be right.  Hard to say for sure without having the lyrics to read along with, but to the ear there is nothing embarassing, and everything sounds pretty good.

I don't know them yet either....only judging from my single listen.....and agree that the lyrics are very much improved. There seems to have been more thought put into them. But, I don't think any DT album(s) will match (for me) what I&W and AWAKE did lyrically.
  I enjoy those type of abstract, detailed but not committed to describing a specific person/place/thing....type lyrics that allow you to craft your own personal story to a song.
  DT have had some strong lyrical songs since on various albums but nothing like that two album run IMO. This recent two album stretch of ADTOE and DT is a VAST improvement over SC and BC&SL though.

[Implode]

After my first listen, these are my thoughts. It is a strong album, but not an instant classic because I have a feeling most of the awesome is carried by IT.

[jsbru]

I'm pretty close to starting a change.org petition to get DT to make an entire song out of the easter egg/encore/hidden track (whatever you want to call it) on their next album.

Not just an acoustic ballad, but something that develops and grows into a powerful but slow song like AFTR.

I'm convinced this has the potential to be the best song released by anyone ever. 

[tapsmiled]

Instant classic for me.  10/10 and it will only get better hearing the CD in my car.

[SlitherX]

Just listened to it for the first time and... Wow, absolutely fucken amazing!!

Not really any weak spots on this album for me, not through first listen anyways.  So much to take in! Holy shit.

Illumination Theory literally took me on a rollercoster, from smiles and happiness, to tears of joy. What an amazing epic.    I always thought the middle 'spacey' section in TCOT was one of the greatest things I ever heard, but then IT came along..

DT12 will have to stand the test of time, but I really cant see this album being under the level of I&W/SFAM. For me its the DT album. Absolutely in love with it. Way above expectation and so much better then ADTOE Imo.

Thank you Dream Theater!

10/10

[chrisbDTM]

IT is gonna sneak into my top DT songs, much like breaking all illusions did. Im glad they can still do that for me after all this time

[Outcrier]

My thoughts:

False Awakening Suite - Only liked the 1:40 section, then comes that riff that leaked (i'm talking about the main riff in the transcribed MIDI) that it's just cringeworthy to me 

The Enemy Inside - Good song overall. Catchy vocals. Rudess  cheesy "carnival solo" ruins the song a bit but i can overlook it 

The Looking Glass - Great song, one of the best in the album. Great chorus, solo sections and Rudess finally don't ruin the song, great playing here 

Enigma Machine - Fun, enjoyable but forgettable song, the wankery is back, the cliched "Petrucci obrigatory EPIC SLOW SOLO" is here, don't know for what 

The Bigger Picture - Good song. Bit cheesy in the beggining but it gets better and better. Very good solo and outro 

Behind The Veil - Nice song but don't live up to the intro 

Surrender To Reason - The intro reminds me of Protest The Hero "Heretics & Killers" (Heavy intro and then, only acoustic guitar and vocals before going heavy again).
Great song, best of the album along TLG. The Restless Angels guitar melody is very good, solid verses, the "late night in smokin club jam" is very cool too 

Along For The Ride - Nice ballad, better than the last ones 

Illumination Theory - Again, just a long song, not a epic (ACOS and 8varium says hello).
Disjointed mess consisting of "great parts", "filler parts", "LaBrie kicking ass moment", "good but random orchestra section", "nice outro"... so, you get the picture... i enjoy it but it could be better 

Easter Egg - Deserves a whole song just for it 

[Zydar]

Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?

[Outcrier]

Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?

FAS 1:48-2:20

[BlobVanDam]

Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?

False Awaking Suite at 2:05. How on earth could you miss that, Zy?

edit: Myung'd by Outcrier. I was only thinking of the main bit, not the crappy beginning the MIDI had that didn't sound so close to the final thing.

[Zydar]

Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?

False Awaking Suite at 2:05. How on earth could you miss that, Zy?

Because I only listened to the MIDI once and that was a few months (?) ago. I don't have an extraordinary memory like you, oh big Blob

Thanks for the answers!

[Zantera]

Somewhere between "meh" and "decent" probably. Not bad, but not as good as their truly good stuff. Would give it maybe a 6 out of 10.

[Simon Says]

Have only just heard it, I like what I have heard so far.  I found A Dramatic Turn of Events pretty forgettable, this one has court my attention a little better after one listen.

I definitely could have done without the lame string section in Illumination Theory.  The rest of that track is real nice.

[ariich]

I definitely could have done without the lame string section in Illumination Theory.

:O

[mellotron_scratch]

I think it's a great album. I've only listened to it twice though, the next time will be when my cd arrives in the mail in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone's posted this yet, but:

They've 'borrowed' (or perhaps 'stolen' is a better word) the main melody line from Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto in Illumination Theory. I noticed this upon the first hearing. I've made a little comparison thing, which I will link to below, which plays the melody from the piano concerto first, and then plays a sped up version of the melody in Illumination Theory (I sped it up to make the comparison easier).

https://www.sendspace.com/file/miwcpf

What do you guys think? I personally think it's definitely on purpose, and it's kind of cool that they've referenced Tchaikovsky.

[PixelDream]

Finest album since Train of Thought.

[ariich]

I think it's a great album. I've only listened to it twice though, the next time will be when my cd arrives in the mail in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone's posted this yet, but:

They've 'borrowed' (or perhaps 'stolen' is a better word) the main melody line from Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto in Illumination Theory. I noticed this upon the first hearing. I've made a little comparison thing, which I will link to below, which plays the melody from the piano concerto first, and then plays a sped up version of the melody in Illumination Theory (I sped it up to make the comparison easier).

https://www.sendspace.com/file/miwcpf

What do you guys think? I personally think it's definitely on purpose, and it's kind of cool that they've referenced Tchaikovsky.

It seems it is indeed deliberate, Eren Basburg even confirmed that it references the Tchaikovsky.

[RuRoRul]

Voted Decent.

That is comparing it among DT albums only, as I would definitely rate it as a great album overall, but all of the DT albums with JLB are great, and this one doesn't rate as one of the best of them.

[Zydar]

Finest album since Train of Thought.

Finest since Six Degrees for me.