Author Topic: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks  (Read 1865 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« on: August 12, 2013, 08:23:02 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tVlpd1Va2IU

Pretty sad that the Israeli government wants to intentionally kill the peace talks... btw, didn't the exact same thing happen a few years earlier?

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25758
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 09:07:45 AM »
It's one big bait-and-switch. I have completely stopped caring at this point.

What's sad is that the US is always such a pawn in those matters. Forced to show unconditional support, they become a chess piece in the whole play.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17763
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 12:26:20 PM »
Actually, the limited extent that Obama is willing to actually call them out on it is one of the few things worth a damn about his presidency. Still too much kowtowing, but at least we've moved beyond blind fealty. Curious to see what we say about this.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 01:51:07 PM »



There was once a boy who cried "wolf!" even when there was no wolf in the area.....


etc


etc


etc


 ::)

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 06:22:50 PM »
I have completely stopped caring at this point.

Correction: You have stopped caring since forever ago.

Offline AngelBack

  • I'm officially a lard......
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
  • Gender: Male
  • Why you want beef with broccoli ?
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 07:49:36 AM »
Does anyone not see the strategic value of having a close ally in this region of the world?  You don't have to agree with every political move a friendly country makes but I think having Israel remain loyal to US interests is in our best interest.  Maybe they need us more than we need them or it is for the monetary aid we pour in, but I don't like to think of the position Israel would be in if we took a more neutral stance.  And I am sure that, covertly, we get assistance from them that is invaluable even though not widely known.

Also, not that this holds credibility for many folks, but I believe there is a verse in the Bible where God states (speaking of Israel) " I will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel".  Not trying to start a theological discussion, but for those that hold scripture significant, I think this a huge point to consider.
Until you struggle through the dark, you'll never know that you're alive.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 07:55:28 AM »
All aboard the haterade!

For the record I think it's a stupid move too, but I know where this thread is going in the next five minutes.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 08:18:33 AM »
Does anyone not see the strategic value of having a close ally in this region of the world?  You don't have to agree with every political move a friendly country makes but I think having Israel remain loyal to US interests is in our best interest.  Maybe they need us more than we need them or it is for the monetary aid we pour in, but I don't like to think of the position Israel would be in if we took a more neutral stance.  And I am sure that, covertly, we get assistance from them that is invaluable even though not widely known.

Also, not that this holds credibility for many folks, but I believe there is a verse in the Bible where God states (speaking of Israel) " I will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel".  Not trying to start a theological discussion, but for those that hold scripture significant, I think this a huge point to consider.

As innocent as it all seems, this post pretty much contains the seeds of all the fucked up things humanity inflicts on itself, and it's justifications.

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 08:23:33 AM »
All aboard the haterade!

For the record I think it's a stupid move too, but I know where this thread is going in the next five minutes.

Explain "stupid move". I can't see this as anything other than an intentional middle finger to reconciliation efforts on the part of the Israeli government.

Offline AngelBack

  • I'm officially a lard......
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
  • Gender: Male
  • Why you want beef with broccoli ?
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 08:26:39 AM »
Does anyone not see the strategic value of having a close ally in this region of the world?  You don't have to agree with every political move a friendly country makes but I think having Israel remain loyal to US interests is in our best interest.  Maybe they need us more than we need them or it is for the monetary aid we pour in, but I don't like to think of the position Israel would be in if we took a more neutral stance.  And I am sure that, covertly, we get assistance from them that is invaluable even though not widely known.

Also, not that this holds credibility for many folks, but I believe there is a verse in the Bible where God states (speaking of Israel) " I will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel".  Not trying to start a theological discussion, but for those that hold scripture significant, I think this a huge point to consider.

As innocent as it all seems, this post pretty much contains the seeds of all the fucked up things humanity inflicts on itself, and it's justifications.

Wow! I have just solved all the world's ills, just take the exact opposite position to my thoughts and I am sure Utopia would rapidly ensue.  I don't think these issues will ever go away so it comes down to managing a best case scenario.  So your position would be tell Israel to have a nice day..you are on your own now?  Really? 
Until you struggle through the dark, you'll never know that you're alive.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17763
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 08:34:51 AM »
Does anyone not see the strategic value of having a close ally in this region of the world?  You don't have to agree with every political move a friendly country makes but I think having Israel remain loyal to US interests is in our best interest.  Maybe they need us more than we need them or it is for the monetary aid we pour in, but I don't like to think of the position Israel would be in if we took a more neutral stance.  And I am sure that, covertly, we get assistance from them that is invaluable even though not widely known.
All things being equal, allies are a fine thing. Allies in strategically complex regions, even more-so. However, where Israel is concerned, all things are seldom equal. The question becomes is their friendship more beneficial than it is harmful. I'm of the mindset that a bunch of the would be attackers who use Israel as their justification would find some other reason to hate America were we allied with them or not. Haters gonna hate. At the same time, there are very definitely plenty of people who would love to kill Americans legitimately because of our propping up a severely dubious and oppressive regional powerhouse. There are obviously plenty of other tangents, but just sticking to the pro/con column you've started, fealty to Israel probably doesn't win out in my book.

Besides which, there are plenty of other countries to ally with in the region. Sadly, the best choice was the one we rather stupidly invaded back in '02.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline AngelBack

  • I'm officially a lard......
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
  • Gender: Male
  • Why you want beef with broccoli ?
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 08:45:37 AM »
I think the bedwetters on the left and the knuckle-draggers on the right sometimes miss the bigger picture because of their desire to have their ideology prevail.  I believe that a close alliance with Israel IS the best way to manage this dumpster fire at this time.  We ARE the calming influence by keeping Israel from having to go it alone.  If all the sudden we were not a trustworthy ally, I believe Israel would immediately go into nothing left to lose mode.  Arm up, pre-strike and be prepared to go nuclear if needed because they would know it was now pretty much them against the region.
Until you struggle through the dark, you'll never know that you're alive.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 08:48:08 AM »
That and we get plenty of tech, weapons, and training from them.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 08:48:53 AM »
Wow! I have just solved all the world's ills, just take the exact opposite position to my thoughts and I am sure Utopia would rapidly ensue.  I don't think these issues will ever go away so it comes down to managing a best case scenario.  So your position would be tell Israel to have a nice day..you are on your own now?  Really?

Well you seem to be looking at the whole matter from the perspective of US national interest, so I can't really have a debate. My comment was made from a humanist perspective. Maybe it's because I've been to some of these areas but to me this is a matter of the livelihoods of actual human beings, and your post seemed to rush a little too fast to the us v.s. them paradigm without fully considering the implications of these kinds of decisions on the actual people living on the ground. You know what I mean?

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25758
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 08:50:21 AM »
I don't think these issues will ever go away so it comes down to managing a best case scenario.  So your position would be tell Israel to have a nice day..you are on your own now?  Really?

There are many varying degrees to which you can support an ally. I agree in general that Israel is an important ally and needs to be supported. But, Israel also seems to feel (correctly, I might add) that it can just raise a giant middle finger to any actual peace effort, and it knows that there's zero consequences. The US will just coyly say "can you please not do this, pretty please?" and go back to usual support. Israel is doing a classic "divide and conquer": Settle piece by piece, and let relations go back to normal between the new settlements. That way they get what they want while maintaining the status quo.
What needs to happen is that Israel needs to think that it has to play by the rules, and if it doesn't it will stand alone. That is an operating point where actual peace agreements can happen.

Mind you, Palestine has a looooong way to go themselves. But I personally have higher expectations on Israel because they are a proper, established country.

Regarding your biblical quote, I agree with whoever said it encapsulates perfectly why the region is so fucked up.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 08:57:44 AM by rumborak »
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2013, 08:58:22 AM »
That and we get plenty of tech, weapons, and training from them.

Dude, do you have any experience with Krav Maga? That is some intense shit. It's sure to boost your credentials xD

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17763
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2013, 11:38:43 AM »
I think the bedwetters on the left and the knuckle-draggers on the right sometimes miss the bigger picture because of their desire to have their ideology prevail.  I believe that a close alliance with Israel IS the best way to manage this dumpster fire at this time.  We ARE the calming influence by keeping Israel from having to go it alone.  If all the sudden we were not a trustworthy ally, I believe Israel would immediately go into nothing left to lose mode.  Arm up, pre-strike and be prepared to go nuclear if needed because they would know it was now pretty much them against the region.
We're not preventing Israel from doing jack shit. If they want to blow something up or flambe a city they're going to do it and tell us to just deal with it. They've never been opposed to unilateral action when it suits their needs. We're just not to that point yet.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6356
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2013, 11:55:02 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tVlpd1Va2IU

Pretty sad that the Israeli government wants to intentionally kill the peace talks... btw, didn't the exact same thing happen a few years earlier?

It's the same thing that happens every time and it doesn't piss me off anymore as much as the repetition of the reactions to it pisses me off, "They did what?! Oh that's sad, doesn't help much, oh well", repeat.
It's the usual Israeli spit in the face, don't make a fuss cause it just reminds humanity how helpless it is.

Actually, the limited extent that Obama is willing to actually call them out on it is one of the few things worth a damn about his presidency. Still too much kowtowing, but at least we've moved beyond blind fealty. Curious to see what we say about this.

Nothing, Obama already came under a lot of heat from Republicans and tea baggers for his tense relationship with prime minister kill-em-all and I think he learned his lesson in his first term; there's no messing with Israel unless you coordinate with Israel before hand heh

If all the sudden we were not a trustworthy ally, I believe Israel would immediately go into nothing left to lose mode.  Arm up, pre-strike and be prepared to go nuclear if needed because they would know it was now pretty much them against the region.

Bringing up the Samson Option always gives me shivers.

That and we get plenty of tech, weapons, and training from them.

That is actually one of the most clever media-magnified points that has been circulating in all discussions the last few years as to why the U.S. supports Israel so unconditionally, when it first came up I couldn't believe anybody would buy this nonsense, they usually add "intelligence" to it too, the U.S. are making never ending hostilities and mortal enemies in the whole region cause it needs intelligence, tech and weapons from Israel, say it out loud and see how it sounds.

Mind you, Palestine has a looooong way to go themselves. But I personally have higher expectations on Israel because they are a proper, established country.

Agreed even though I'm yet to see how Israel would behave without a far right government, since individually Israeli's seem like cool peaceful people and they're always speaking up against criminal actions of their governments to the point where you have to wonder how they keep getting representatives they don't like so constantly.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2013, 12:02:44 PM »
Yep, there it is. Later than I thought though.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25758
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2013, 12:32:53 PM »
I don't see how this is "haterade" in any way or fashion. I think we're all pretty level-headed people when it comes to this (because I don't think anyone here has a stake in it, except AngelBack maybe), and we all come to the conclusion that Israel is clearly in the wrong when it continues to settle people onto land that is unanimously seen as Palestinian territory.
Frankly, you off-handedly dismissing our discourse here as "haterade" is rather lame, and insulting.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17763
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2013, 12:45:39 PM »
I have to agree. You're generally a pretty levelheaded poster, SD, but you do this any time Israel comes up. You see any critical analysis as hatred.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2013, 12:58:04 PM »
After six years of trying to explain it and just as easily being dismissed (oftentimes even dismissed as being outright lies, pretty much an automatic signal to me that no one is going to listen), I see no reason to put in the effort anymore.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 01:25:00 PM »
I think when someone walks up to you and asks "how long have you been a horse?" you can dismiss them as drunk, high or weird.


When a second person walks up and asks, "how long have you been a horse?" it may be something worth a little bit of thought.

When a third, forth, (etc) person ask you about being a horse?


It might be time to start looking into prices for hay and saddles.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2013, 01:35:59 PM »
Or it may be time for the third and fourth person to start looking into buying glasses, because things aren't as straightforward as they appear.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 01:47:17 PM by Super Dude »
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 616
  • oh no she didnt
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 02:38:38 PM »
But even you agree that you're a horse, so I don't know what you're complaining about...

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17763
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 02:58:17 PM »
After six years of trying to explain it and just as easily being dismissed (oftentimes even dismissed as being outright lies, pretty much an automatic signal to me that no one is going to listen), I see no reason to put in the effort anymore.
The thing is, if I were to put forth various, succinct statements regarding my observations, I think you'd agree with almost all of them. I think you'd even get the logic of my interpretations of them, although I'm sure yours would vary. Yet still, I think you'd lump me in with the haters, despite agreeing with me in large part. That's why I've never been a fan of discussing Israel; people take it far too seriously to be objective. And I'm not singling you out, really, you're just the main Israel proponent on this board.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2013, 04:34:26 PM »
But even you agree that you're a horse, so I don't know what you're complaining about...

Who said I did? And even if I did, again, it's not quite that simple.

And Barto, I wouldn't really say I consider you a hater, since my impression has largely been that you're indifferent to the whole thing anyway. Or at least you seem to give off that vibe.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6356
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 07:10:06 AM »
So "haterade" means haters? Okay I get it now, forgive me for being out of touch with the cool kids lingo.
SD, you haven't been explaining something for six years and people here just don't understand! They understand the words they're reading but they disagree! Why is it hard to process that?

But even you agree that you're a horse, so I don't know what you're complaining about...

Who said I did? And even if I did, again, it's not quite that simple.

This right here in this thread, is called complaining, at least politely it's called complaining. It's exactly that simple.

And Barto, I wouldn't really say I consider you a hater, since my impression has largely been that you're indifferent to the whole thing anyway. Or at least you seem to give off that vibe.

Wait so Barto is okay because he's indifferent? Geez Louis!, is what we said back in the day before haterade.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline AngelBack

  • I'm officially a lard......
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
  • Gender: Male
  • Why you want beef with broccoli ?
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 08:58:16 AM »
In SD's defense, I can see how assumptions would be made as I feel anti-semitism is the white elephant in the room of discrimination.  NOT that anyone here is an anti-semite, but I guess if you live in constant defense mode, it might be easy, although not warranted, to jump to the conclusion that you about to encounter more of what you see regularly in other venues.  I believe anti-semitism is the only politically correct form of bigotry.

Again, not saying that is the case here.  There was nothing here remotely close to that, and I quite enjoy hearing the opinions of those I may disagree with.
Until you struggle through the dark, you'll never know that you're alive.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 11:07:51 AM »
In SD's defense, I can see how assumptions would be made as I feel anti-semitism is the white elephant in the room of discrimination.  NOT that anyone here is an anti-semite, but I guess if you live in constant defense mode, it might be easy, although not warranted, to jump to the conclusion that you about to encounter more of what you see regularly in other venues.  I believe anti-semitism is the only politically correct form of bigotry.

Again, not saying that is the case here.  There was nothing here remotely close to that, and I quite enjoy hearing the opinions of those I may disagree with.

Not what I was implying, but the basic sentiment is there. It's hard to present your case in a calm and even-handed manner when you're constantly on the defensive. Especially when any attempts to do so are written off as propaganda, even when you do try to be concessionary and reasonable, or even bend backwards over your own views.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 25758
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2013, 11:16:33 AM »
My personal approach to the topic, and this might be viewed as "anti-semitic" by some, is that I refuse to acknowledge any kind of divine rights on either side to the land at hand. I view the current situation as a fait accompli, and any resolution needs to be in the middle, not on the extreme of either side.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2013, 11:17:48 AM »
Oh, and I don't either. I recognize a historical right. And I want a two-state solution. But the situation is so much more complicated than talking points and vitriol (although that vitriol is the reason we'll never see peace).
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17763
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2013, 11:47:50 AM »
It just seems to me that too often people are unable to discern antisemitism from anti-Zionism. I tend to view all people about the same. My issue is strictly political and practical.

Not what I was implying, but the basic sentiment is there. It's hard to present your case in a calm and even-handed manner when you're constantly on the defensive. Especially when any attempts to do so are written off as propaganda, even when you do try to be concessionary and reasonable, or even bend backwards over your own views.
And herein lies the problem. Why do you feel like you're on the defensive all the time? The last day you certainly have been, but it's strictly because of the preexisting defensiveness you tend to demonstrate.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16071
  • Gender: Male
    • Hopped on Pop
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2013, 12:15:37 PM »
It just seems to me that too often people are unable to discern antisemitism from anti-Zionism. I tend to view all people about the same. My issue is strictly political and practical.

Not what I was implying, but the basic sentiment is there. It's hard to present your case in a calm and even-handed manner when you're constantly on the defensive. Especially when any attempts to do so are written off as propaganda, even when you do try to be concessionary and reasonable, or even bend backwards over your own views.
And herein lies the problem. Why do you feel like you're on the defensive all the time? The last day you certainly have been, but it's strictly because of the preexisting defensiveness you tend to demonstrate.

The answer to your second question is the answer to this first question: it's more often than not difficult to discern between the two, especially when actual anti-Semites can just fall back on that response to invalidate the argument.
I am an SJW (Super Jewish Warrior)
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6679
  • Gender: Male
  • I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!
    • The ANABASIS
Re: Israel approves new settlements ahead of peace talks
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2013, 12:45:18 PM »
It just seems to me that too often people are unable to discern antisemitism from anti-Zionism. I tend to view all people about the same. My issue is strictly political and practical.

Not what I was implying, but the basic sentiment is there. It's hard to present your case in a calm and even-handed manner when you're constantly on the defensive. Especially when any attempts to do so are written off as propaganda, even when you do try to be concessionary and reasonable, or even bend backwards over your own views.
And herein lies the problem. Why do you feel like you're on the defensive all the time? The last day you certainly have been, but it's strictly because of the preexisting defensiveness you tend to demonstrate.

The answer to your second question is the answer to this first question: it's more often than not difficult to discern between the two, especially when actual anti-Semites can just fall back on that response to invalidate the argument.


But with all of this you're kind of implying that this forum is littered with Antisemitism.   From the time I've been here, I've seen no such thing.  Not that I pay much attention to threads about Israel, because, frankly, the topic doesn't interest me all that much.