Author Topic: The n-word and its use  (Read 6981 times)

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Offline eric42434224

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #210 on: July 12, 2018, 01:27:23 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #211 on: July 12, 2018, 01:33:06 PM »
There's no reason for him to have said it. Corporate culture is super sterile, or should be...
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #212 on: July 12, 2018, 01:46:48 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 

My biggest problem is that it would appear that the usage and context were NOT considered at all.  They certainly weren't considered by most of the media, judging by the fact that the headlines in most of the articles seem to be implying that the term was used in some context that makes him a racist, rather than just clueless and lacking good judgment.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #213 on: July 12, 2018, 02:02:52 PM »
There's no reason for him to have said it. Corporate culture is super sterile, or should be...

Assuming you're right - and I don't necessarily think you are, but that's immaterial, since this isn't at all about  who's right or wrong - nonetheless he said it, and in a benign context.   He resigned, as is his right.   No problems there.  It was poor judgment.  No problems there.   

But this - https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/two-louisville-players-want-name-on-papa-johns-cardinal-stadium-to-change/ - is not about John Schnatter's business judgment.   He's already been removed from the equation.

The fact remains, he  used the word in a non-racist way, and yet many have reacted as if there is no distinction.  It's that inexact response - the blunt edge of the mob rule - that I am commenting on.

Incidentally; I put on the news this afternoon to get the weather (I have to cut the lawn) and it bled into "Daily Mail Online", a sickening (to me) quasi-news show that basically is a slightly higher-brow, non-Harvey Levin-hosted TMZ, and they referenced Roseanne Barr.  In that piece they referred no less than four times to her "shocking racist Twitter rant" and/or her "shocking racist Tweets", simply assuming at this point that we all agree they were both "shocking" and "racist".  One of our own posted a compelling argument here that they may not actually have been racist, in the specific sense of the word, but merely insensitive and an example of poor judgment.  Over time, though, the edges have been worn off, and we get lazy, and anything that even hints at race is de facto "racist".  It's that kind of sloppy analysis that has fed into many of the things we rightfully rail against here, like "Fake News" and the partisan generalization of "the other side".   

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #214 on: July 12, 2018, 02:04:07 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 

My biggest problem is that it would appear that the usage and context were NOT considered at all.  They certainly weren't considered by most of the media, judging by the fact that the headlines in most of the articles seem to be implying that the term was used in some context that makes him a racist, rather than just clueless and lacking good judgment.

I don't at all feel like "usage and context" were considered, except in the most basic and literal sense (i.e. that he used the word, period). 

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #215 on: July 12, 2018, 02:06:11 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 

My biggest problem is that it would appear that the usage and context were NOT considered at all.  They certainly weren't considered by most of the media, judging by the fact that the headlines in most of the articles seem to be implying that the term was used in some context that makes him a racist, rather than just clueless and lacking good judgment.

I don't at all feel like "usage and context" were considered, except in the most basic and literal sense (i.e. that he used the word, period). 

I think usage and context were considered in showing him the door, but I don't think they were considered when the public labelled him a racist.  I totally agree with you and Bosk and others who have pointed out that the rush to judgement and characterization of being a racist is wrong.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #216 on: July 12, 2018, 02:14:45 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 

My biggest problem is that it would appear that the usage and context were NOT considered at all.  They certainly weren't considered by most of the media, judging by the fact that the headlines in most of the articles seem to be implying that the term was used in some context that makes him a racist, rather than just clueless and lacking good judgment.

"On the May call, Schnatter was asked how he would distance himself from racist groups online. He responded by downplaying the significance of his NFL statement. “Colonel Sanders called blacks n-----s,” Schnatter said, before complaining that Sanders never faced public backlash."

There is the context.  First he used the actual word again (not smart), then uses an comparison example from what era?? (so not smart), and then complains about the difference in the treatment Sanders got???  (bigly not smart).

Not sure how much more context is needed.  Him being a racist or not has nothing to do with it.  He's fucking stupid and a liability.

The comparison to the football players is apt IMO.
The football players are kneeling, and are 100% clear about the purpose, meaning, and intent.  Lets take Papa Johns acts at face value, and assign no malicious or racist intent on his use of the word, twice.  Yet the media, the people, the whatever, all make the story about something else.  Disrespecting our troops and flag on one side, and Racism on the other.  Yet on its face both are about neither of those narratives.  Yet companies can, and should, make decisions about their employees, if those employees negatively affect their bottom line, image, etc.
I really do not see much of a difference in the two examples....yet I see people coming to two different conclusions on each.
If you think a kneeling football player should be fired, but not Papa John, I am interested in knowing specifically WHY?
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #217 on: July 12, 2018, 02:23:54 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 

My biggest problem is that it would appear that the usage and context were NOT considered at all.  They certainly weren't considered by most of the media, judging by the fact that the headlines in most of the articles seem to be implying that the term was used in some context that makes him a racist, rather than just clueless and lacking good judgment.

I don't at all feel like "usage and context" were considered, except in the most basic and literal sense (i.e. that he used the word, period). 

I think usage and context were considered in showing him the door, but I don't think they were considered when the public labelled him a racist.  I totally agree with you and Bosk and others who have pointed out that the rush to judgement and characterization of being a racist is wrong.

But the showing of the door isn't the important part.   They can dismiss him because they don't like the hem of his pants, and that's their right.  I don't care about him being fired (point: he resigned, but still).   I care about tarring and feathering him as a racist.  "Being stupid" doesn't make you a racist (even if being a racist might actually make you stupid, depending on your point of view). 

Offline eric42434224

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #218 on: July 12, 2018, 02:24:09 PM »
His usage and context were used and considered. 

My biggest problem is that it would appear that the usage and context were NOT considered at all.  They certainly weren't considered by most of the media, judging by the fact that the headlines in most of the articles seem to be implying that the term was used in some context that makes him a racist, rather than just clueless and lacking good judgment.

I don't at all feel like "usage and context" were considered, except in the most basic and literal sense (i.e. that he used the word, period). 

I think usage and context were considered in showing him the door, but I don't think they were considered when the public labelled him a racist.  I totally agree with you and Bosk and others who have pointed out that the rush to judgement and characterization of being a racist is wrong.

I dont know if one should label him as a racist for this.  But the fact that he used Sanders example, and complained that Sanders never got flak?  That has to be factored in.  Proof or Racism?  Maybe not.  But it is proof that his word was not just benign, literal, and innocent.  That is why I think he was shown the door.

If he had said the N word like this:  "I am really sorry I used the word Nigger, I am very ashamed".  Do you think he gets fired?  Hell No.
But he COMPLAINS that fucking Colonel Sanders gets to use it without backlash, but he doesnt?  LOL.  Yeah bye.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #219 on: July 12, 2018, 02:26:04 PM »
Well, if you think that is an accurate representation of the context of either example, all I can say is, people believe what they want to believe.  I don't have anything useful to add.  :dunno:
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #220 on: July 12, 2018, 02:31:17 PM »
I don't know enough about him as a person to label him or anyone a racist really.  Unless you make it real clear that is (which is not the case here, from what I can tell).  But even just saying the word doesn't make someone a racist in my mind.  HIs example was poor, but the example does not make someone racist either. 

And if that's the real issue here, then I guess I've been arguing something that we all agree about all day  :lol

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #221 on: July 12, 2018, 02:32:49 PM »
all I can say is, people believe what they want to believe. 

I agree 100%.  Given the context and information at hand, I can see the case for both sides (in regards to racism) in moderation.
The narratives that he is a raging racist, along with the one that it was an innocent/sterile/literal/benign use of the word are simply not plausible from the information.  Truth is somewhere on the spectrum in between.

Maybe the truth is that he is a mix of racially insensitive....and losing self-awareness/judgement.  Not good as a Chairman/CEO/Brand Ambassador.

Regardless, his actions were 100% fucking idiotic, given his particular circumstances, and he has only himself to blame for being canned.  Like I said, take the N word out, and replace with another touchy word not related to racism.  Same results.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #222 on: July 12, 2018, 02:35:46 PM »
There's no reason for him to have said it. Corporate culture is super sterile, or should be...

Assuming you're right - and I don't necessarily think you are, but that's immaterial, since this isn't at all about  who's right or wrong - nonetheless he said it, and in a benign context.   He resigned, as is his right.   No problems there.  It was poor judgment.  No problems there.   

But this - https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/two-louisville-players-want-name-on-papa-johns-cardinal-stadium-to-change/ - is not about John Schnatter's business judgment.   He's already been removed from the equation.

That's a wholly separate topic, though, respectfully. For the record I think the knee jerk outrage and wanting that "change" is absurd and it pisses me off.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #223 on: July 12, 2018, 02:37:04 PM »
If he had said the N word like this:  "I am really sorry I used the word Nigger, I am very ashamed".  Do you think he gets fired?  Hell No.

I definitely think he gets both shown the door, and tarred and feathered, as Stadler put it. But maybe that opens the door for him to do an interview with Oprah, get his image rehabilitated, so to speak.

Researching this led me to Jonathan Friedland, https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jonathan-friedland-exits-netflix-1122675 Particularly:

Quote
For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script).

So yeah, You can't use it, ever, unless you are black.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #224 on: July 12, 2018, 02:42:57 PM »
I think if it's in a song, screw it, say it. Anyone hear the recent story about Kendrick Lamar stopping a performance because he brought a white girl on stage to sing one of his songs, that had "nigga" in it? She said it, he stopped the show and lectured her about it. Ridiculous. If you don't want whitey saying it, don't put it in the damn song.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #225 on: July 12, 2018, 02:44:05 PM »
Quote
For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script).

So yeah, You can't use it, ever, unless you are black.

As much as I think this is terrible, in the sense that it's almost racist in and of itself to only allow one race to use a word, but the reality is that this is the truth of the world we live in.  There is no way I can use that word in public and not get pounced on, even in the most benign way.  Even if I think it's wrong, I have to be responsible and understand the reality, especially if you are a CEO of a public company and simply just never use the word.  It's not really the end of the world at the end of the day though, it's just a word and I have no real reason to use it, I can think of other words to use in it's place and in worst case just say "the n word". 

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #226 on: July 12, 2018, 02:44:44 PM »
As far as I can find, he only said it once, and it was the reported time on the conference call. The call was about his remarks regarding the NFL protests, which did not include any racially insensitive words, just using them as a scape goat for poor numbers. He wasn't referencing Sanders in regards to ALSO being able to use the word without criticism. He was being a little cry baby bitch and using Sanders as an example of a MUCH GREATER infraction that didn't even draw as much negativity as his comments about the NFL. If anything, he even acknowledges with that the idea that using that word is BAD, and also worse than what he's already done. At the very least, I have a hard time finding this an "unacceptable" use. His being a little cry baby bitch is the common theme here, and that's bad for business.

Quote
For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script).

So yeah, You can't use it, ever, unless you are black.

And they even use the word ALMOST when implying an absolute lol.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #227 on: July 12, 2018, 02:48:57 PM »
If he had said the N word like this:  "I am really sorry I used the word Nigger, I am very ashamed".  Do you think he gets fired?  Hell No.

I definitely think he gets both shown the door, and tarred and feathered, as Stadler put it. But maybe that opens the door for him to do an interview with Oprah, get his image rehabilitated, so to speak.

Researching this led me to Jonathan Friedland, https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jonathan-friedland-exits-netflix-1122675 Particularly:

Quote
For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script).

So yeah, You can't use it, ever, unless you are black.

Does that bother you?  It does me.   We can't now fully analyze Lyndon Johnson's presidency or Agatha Christie's canon.   This wiki page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians - is "inappropriate' and "not constructive". 

More importantly, it takes the easy way out.  I've written before that I believe (and there is some scholarly evidence that supports this; that's been documented in multiple places including the discussion about the Sarasota kid that didn't get to go to the prom) that forcing this stuff under the rug, artificially, doesn't snuff it out but in fact helps it thrive.   For those that are actually racist, forcing people to change their words doesn't encourage or incent them to change their thinking.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #228 on: July 12, 2018, 02:53:32 PM »
If he had said the N word like this:  "I am really sorry I used the word Nigger, I am very ashamed".  Do you think he gets fired?  Hell No.

I definitely think he gets both shown the door, and tarred and feathered, as Stadler put it. But maybe that opens the door for him to do an interview with Oprah, get his image rehabilitated, so to speak.

Researching this led me to Jonathan Friedland, https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jonathan-friedland-exits-netflix-1122675 Particularly:

Quote
For non-Black people, the word should not be spoken as there is almost no context in which it is appropriate or constructive (even when singing a song or reading a script).

So yeah, You can't use it, ever, unless you are black.

Does that bother you?  It does me.   We can't now fully analyze Lyndon Johnson's presidency or Agatha Christie's canon.   This wiki page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians - is "inappropriate' and "not constructive". 

More importantly, it takes the easy way out.  I've written before that I believe (and there is some scholarly evidence that supports this; that's been documented in multiple places including the discussion about the Sarasota kid that didn't get to go to the prom) that forcing this stuff under the rug, artificially, doesn't snuff it out but in fact helps it thrive.   For those that are actually racist, forcing people to change their words doesn't encourage or incent them to change their thinking.

It doesn't bother me for a couple reasons.  I don't work at Netflix lol.  I also know that this sentiment is an ultra low percentage of how most people feel, and is a reactionary statement protecting the brand.  Yes you have to be sensitive and aware.  No you should not eliminate it from the non-Black lexicon.  Making a big deal about this CEOs letter is, well, fear-mongering.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #229 on: July 12, 2018, 03:12:33 PM »
So.....I’m not allowed to even say the title of a Richard Pryor album....its title....the name of it...I can’t say it. I have to say “That Richard Pryor album”, “Well, which album?”, “The one with the name I can’t say.” (Which actually doesn’t narrow it down)

Is that what’s being said here?

So wait, if a theater company wanted to recreate the famous SNL skit with Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor (which I believe Richard Pryor wrote) we wouldn’t be able to perform it because the white guy says the N word??
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #230 on: July 12, 2018, 03:15:13 PM »
So.....I’m not allowed to even say the title of a Richard Pryor album....its title....the name of it...I can’t say it. I have to say “That Richard Pryor album”, “Well, which album?”, “The one with the name I can’t say.” (Which actually doesn’t narrow it down)

Is that what’s being said here?

So wait, if a theater company wanted to recreate the famous SNL skit with Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor (which I believe Richard Pryor wrote) we wouldn’t be able to perform it because the white guy says the N word??

For Fucks Sake NO.  That is not what you are, or are not allowed to do.
It is simply the opinion of the (misguided IMO) Netflix CEO.  Nothing more, nothing less.  An opinion of one fucking person.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 03:35:21 PM by eric42434224 »
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #231 on: July 12, 2018, 03:39:20 PM »
I think Eric inadvertently hit on something important. He described Schnatter's remarks as perhaps racially insensitive. I don't really have a problem with that description. That's a far cry from racist, though, and we no longer seem to be able to discern between the two when reaching for our pitchforks. Is there no room to consider that maybe someone was being insensitive but not necessarily hateful, bigoted, or otherwise deserving of being set on fire? Insensitivity happens. It happens a lot. You explain to somebody why that might be a problem and you let them learn from it. Except in 21st century America, apparently, where you banish them from "civilized" society.

I suppose distinguishing between insensitive and bigoted requires a similar process as discerning the context of the remarks to begin with. That's too much work, and we've become far too intellectually lazy to bother with all of that nonsense.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #232 on: July 12, 2018, 04:34:14 PM »
I think Eric inadvertently hit on something important. He described Schnatter's remarks as perhaps racially insensitive. I don't really have a problem with that description. That's a far cry from racist, though, and we no longer seem to be able to discern between the two when reaching for our pitchforks. Is there no room to consider that maybe someone was being insensitive but not necessarily hateful, bigoted, or otherwise deserving of being set on fire? Insensitivity happens. It happens a lot. You explain to somebody why that might be a problem and you let them learn from it. Except in 21st century America, apparently, where you banish them from "civilized" society.

I suppose distinguishing between insensitive and bigoted requires a similar process as discerning the context of the remarks to begin with. That's too much work, and we've become far too intellectually lazy to bother with all of that nonsense.

Not inadvertently :)  That was exactly my point.  Somewhere between the full on RACIST and innocent benign ANGEL most people gravitate toward.

Also, yes insensitivity happens, and can be treated as a learning opportunity.....but if you are a problem child on a short leash and on notice, racial insensitivity might just be the straw that breaks the camels back.  Context and history matter.  I have a feeling Papa was more on the naughty list than the nice list with the Board, and was clearly on notice due to the nature of the call (I even heard he talked about times in his home state when they used to drag Blacks to death behind cars...just really poor judgement)....he just handed them a bunch of straw.  Its corporate America....dont give your enemies the ammo to shoot you.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 04:42:18 PM by eric42434224 »
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #233 on: July 12, 2018, 06:24:41 PM »
I think if it's in a song, screw it, say it. Anyone hear the recent story about Kendrick Lamar stopping a performance because he brought a white girl on stage to sing one of his songs, that had "nigga" in it? She said it, he stopped the show and lectured her about it. Ridiculous. If you don't want whitey saying it, don't put it in the damn song.

Or better yet, don't invite a non-black person to sing a song with the word in it. Thats entirely Kendricks fault, that girl only did it because he pulled her on stage to sing that part.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #234 on: July 12, 2018, 08:52:50 PM »
She should have said "wigger" instead.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #235 on: July 13, 2018, 09:43:21 AM »
Rachel Dolezal just called; she said she's offended.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #236 on: July 13, 2018, 09:54:02 AM »
I think Eric inadvertently hit on something important. He described Schnatter's remarks as perhaps racially insensitive. I don't really have a problem with that description. That's a far cry from racist, though, and we no longer seem to be able to discern between the two when reaching for our pitchforks. Is there no room to consider that maybe someone was being insensitive but not necessarily hateful, bigoted, or otherwise deserving of being set on fire? Insensitivity happens. It happens a lot. You explain to somebody why that might be a problem and you let them learn from it. Except in 21st century America, apparently, where you banish them from "civilized" society.

I suppose distinguishing between insensitive and bigoted requires a similar process as discerning the context of the remarks to begin with. That's too much work, and we've become far too intellectually lazy to bother with all of that nonsense.

This is where I am parked.    It's just lazy intellect and that's a dead end street.  that's what leads to "Free gas!" and "Build a wall!" and "Deplorable!" and "Tariffs!".   

It's not a crime to be "insensitive".  And I argue that even the "learning moment" is an option to be taken or not.   It's not my place - nor anyone else's - to FORCE people to be what is ultimately going to be arbitrarily "sensitive".  Is it "insensitive" to say "Jesus Christ!" when expressing frustration or anger with something?  Yes.   Is it "insensitive" to go on a date with someone and then "ghost" them the next day?   Yes.   Is it "insensitive" to stand there at a concert with your phone up and on "record" when there are people behind you?   Yes.  Is it insensitive to go into the men's room and relieve yourself of that Mexican lunch you just had and not courtesy flush?  Yes.  Is it "insensitive" to haul your groceries to your car and leave the cart where it was when you pulled your Cheerios out of it to put in your backseat?  Yes. 

But none of those are illegal, and, in my opinion, none of those should result in any consequences beyond the immediate, person-to-person reaction.   I should not be shaming el Barto because he didn't call that girl that gave him a handy after the Maiden show (I'm kidding, and if that actually happened, it's purely guesswork on my part).    That's his decision, and his conscience, and his issue to work out with the girl.   I've already said, I have no beef with Schnatter resigning, that's his call, and none of this is to say "he should have his job".  I don't care about that.  I care about the intellectual sloth that we're exhibiting around this issue, and, in many ways, forcing on others.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #237 on: July 13, 2018, 10:05:22 AM »
I think Eric inadvertently hit on something important. He described Schnatter's remarks as perhaps racially insensitive. I don't really have a problem with that description. That's a far cry from racist, though, and we no longer seem to be able to discern between the two when reaching for our pitchforks. Is there no room to consider that maybe someone was being insensitive but not necessarily hateful, bigoted, or otherwise deserving of being set on fire? Insensitivity happens. It happens a lot. You explain to somebody why that might be a problem and you let them learn from it. Except in 21st century America, apparently, where you banish them from "civilized" society.

I suppose distinguishing between insensitive and bigoted requires a similar process as discerning the context of the remarks to begin with. That's too much work, and we've become far too intellectually lazy to bother with all of that nonsense.

This is where I am parked.    It's just lazy intellect and that's a dead end street.  that's what leads to "Free gas!" and "Build a wall!" and "Deplorable!" and "Tariffs!".   

It's not a crime to be "insensitive".  And I argue that even the "learning moment" is an option to be taken or not.   It's not my place - nor anyone else's - to FORCE people to be what is ultimately going to be arbitrarily "sensitive".  Is it "insensitive" to say "Jesus Christ!" when expressing frustration or anger with something?  Yes.   Is it "insensitive" to go on a date with someone and then "ghost" them the next day?   Yes.   Is it "insensitive" to stand there at a concert with your phone up and on "record" when there are people behind you?   Yes.  Is it insensitive to go into the men's room and relieve yourself of that Mexican lunch you just had and not courtesy flush?  Yes.  Is it "insensitive" to haul your groceries to your car and leave the cart where it was when you pulled your Cheerios out of it to put in your backseat?  Yes. 

But none of those are illegal, and, in my opinion, none of those should result in any consequences beyond the immediate, person-to-person reaction.   I should not be shaming el Barto because he didn't call that girl that gave him a handy after the Maiden show (I'm kidding, and if that actually happened, it's purely guesswork on my part).    That's his decision, and his conscience, and his issue to work out with the girl.   I've already said, I have no beef with Schnatter resigning, that's his call, and none of this is to say "he should have his job".  I don't care about that.  I care about the intellectual sloth that we're exhibiting around this issue, and, in many ways, forcing on others.

I agree with you here. The media are making it out to be racially motivated, because he said the word. Wheter it was used in a bigotry way doesn't matter, its the fact he said the word.

The context is him being dumb, by saying "If sanders said it without backlash, why can't I?" He didn't even have to say the word either for that statement to mean the same thing.
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Offline sylvan

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #238 on: July 13, 2018, 10:18:07 AM »
The context is him being dumb, by saying "If sanders said it without backlash, why can't I?" He didn't even have to say the word either for that statement to mean the same thing.

It was more like, "If Sanders can say THAT and not face any backlash, why am I getting all this shit for what I said about the NFL protests?"

Offline bosk1

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #239 on: July 13, 2018, 10:22:19 AM »
The context is him being dumb, by saying "If sanders said it without backlash, why can't I?" He didn't even have to say the word either for that statement to mean the same thing.

Despite what Eric has said, that is NOT the context.  He wasn't saying "If sanders said it without backlash, why can't I?"  As I understood his point, he was showing how times have changed and how much progress we have made, with what Sanders said as being an obvious example of something that is unacceptable, but just wasn't recognized as such back then.  And then contrasting that with his comments about the NFL protests.

EDIT:  ninja'd by Sylvan
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #240 on: July 13, 2018, 10:30:03 AM »
The context is him being dumb, by saying "If sanders said it without backlash, why can't I?" He didn't even have to say the word either for that statement to mean the same thing.

Despite what Eric has said, that is NOT the context.  He wasn't saying "If sanders said it without backlash, why can't I?"  As I understood his point, he was showing how times have changed and how much progress we have made, with what Sanders said as being an obvious example of something that is unacceptable, but just wasn't recognized as such back then.  And then contrasting that with his comments about the NFL protests.

EDIT:  ninja'd by Sylvan

Ahh...I get ya.

Still, the media are making this more than it really is. If he was smart and didn't use that word, this topic wouldnt be newsworthy. Unless, he thought that call was personal without a thought of it being leaked. If he knew that, he'd likely (only those who know him would really know) have not said that word.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #241 on: July 13, 2018, 10:46:13 AM »
I'll re-cast it as a different and admittedly more benign issue.  It's like if he said something like:

"Remember when we had slavery?  We all know that was pretty messed up.  Can you believe the country thought that was okay?  But us paying our people minimum wage isn't 'slavery' and shouldn't be compared to something that messed up, so we are we getting flack for it?" 

Again, admittedly, the word he used is different.  But he was citing historical precedent and agreeing that it was something that was wrong and NOT to be condoned.  That isn't racist.  It isn't "wrong" in any real way.  It's just that it is such an emotionally charged word that people lose their minds to such a degree when they hear it that they apparently lose all ability to contextualize and figure out that what is actually being said is NOT somehow bigoted or offensive.  His mistake was in not having the judgment to recognize and/or acknowledge that fact.  Apparently, we are indeed at a place in society where you CAN'T say it, no matter the context, and he is being held accountable for that reality.

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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #242 on: July 13, 2018, 12:07:07 PM »
Apparently, we are indeed at a place in society where you CAN'T say it, no matter the context,...

You meant people who aren't black can't say it.

This didn't take long.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/24088014/university-louisville-drops-papa-john-name-stadium

Interesting note: "The naming rights deal for the football stadium is unique because the school's deal is with Schnatter, not the Papa John's brand."
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