Author Topic: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before  (Read 63028 times)

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Online Stadler

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #525 on: August 28, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
Just throwing it out there... but why should we stop that?  We have yet to do something on that scale without there being unintended consequences that are as bad or worse than the perceived ill; if the perceived ill kills millions, do we really want to chance worse?

Offline cramx3

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #526 on: August 28, 2017, 01:32:20 PM »
The areas of pressure aren't where the lava flows are though. Imagine taking a tea kettle (water sources underground) and putting it over a gas burner (magma within the earth) and getting it to whistle (what yellowstone does). You could drill a dozen holes in the top of that kettle and the worst thing that's going to come out is steam/water.

The risk we run right now is that pressure beneath eventually building up enough (think cork in a champagne bottle) to blow a hole in the Earth big enough to penetrate the areas where magma is flowing. If we slowly bleed that pressure and don't destroy the layer between the magma and that pressure source in the process, we have nothing to worry about.

What about the risk of an implosion?  I am all for studying this more and getting more brains to learn and find a way to do something cool like this (more so on the idea harnessing the energy than eruption prevention though).  But I do kind of feel like Stadler, that there are some big forces at play here and unintended consequences could be worse than the initial problem.  I'd leave that to the experts though.  I'm cozy here in NJ out of the ash zone.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #527 on: August 28, 2017, 07:04:50 PM »
Here's an interesting thought.  Though....not a new one....

One of the reasons the first Jaws movie was so fantastic is because it touches on an aspect of group mentality concerning a disaster...  "This isn't really happening....we can go about our business."   Or, "the idea of this possibly catastrophe being real is something that threatens our very survival, so we look for altering theories (a boating accident) to convince us that this isn't really happening."

So with Yellowstone, and I believe this is a very fair question...do you personally believe that if there was a very real threat of Yellowstone exploding, and the fallout was going to basically kill half the US, and there was no way anyone had the resources for an evacuation of that magnitude...   Is it wiser to NOT tell people?   Not cause a panic?   Not put every west coast major metropolis into complete anarchy? 
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #528 on: August 28, 2017, 07:26:48 PM »
...do you personally believe that if there was a very real threat of Yellowstone exploding

I absolutely believe it will erupt with the force the experts predict. It'll be massive. But I also think it will happen long after humans cease to exist. Just because it's averaged out to erupt every 600,000 years and it's been 600,000 years since it erupted....doesn't mean it's blowing in the next few years. More like the next two or three thousand years at the earliest.

The fact that 'we' think we can go and tame something of this magnitude is just another example of mankind's general arrogance. There's no doubt in my mind that if they actually try to enact this plan that it will blow up in our faces......no pun intended.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #529 on: August 29, 2017, 08:36:16 AM »
On an unrelated topic, in just over 2 weeks, Cassini will be throwing itself into Saturn after a 20 year long mission.

https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/grand-finale/overview/
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Online El Barto

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #530 on: September 14, 2017, 11:03:23 PM »
On an unrelated topic, in just over 2 weeks, Cassini will be throwing itself into Saturn after a 20 year long mission.

https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/grand-finale/overview/
And the countdown has begun. There's a woman, Linda Spilker, who's been a big part of this thing for 29 years now. I wonder what it's like when your entire professional life's work just ends. At this point she might actually be the world's leading expert on Saturn, so it's not like she's suddenly worthless, but it still has to be a fundamentally life altering event when what you've spent half your life doing is no more. 
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #531 on: July 28, 2020, 12:38:31 PM »
Bumping the nature thread...

https://twitter.com/DrTimBoone/status/1288166729982644226



Quote
A lioness and cub were crossing the Savannah. The heat was excessive and the cub was in great difficulty. An elephant carried him in his trunk to a pool of water walking beside his mother.
It's a great lesson for mankind who are fighting and dying for no reason.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #532 on: November 29, 2020, 12:28:21 PM »
Spinning an Apple until it Explodes at 28,500fps - The Slow Mo Guys

I never knew you could spin an apple in that kind of angel/axel, looks so weird but really cool.
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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #533 on: December 31, 2020, 12:39:10 PM »
Sry for double post but this is probably the coolset illusion i've seen:

The Illusion You Need To See
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Online jingle.boy

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #534 on: January 01, 2021, 07:49:55 AM »
Sry for double post but this is probably the coolset illusion i've seen:

The Illusion You Need To See

That was fascinating!
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Online TAC

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #535 on: January 01, 2021, 08:46:38 AM »
WOW!!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #536 on: January 01, 2021, 09:28:47 AM »
It's amazing how much our brain can deceive us. It's facinating when you think of all the kinds of ways illusionists can use and have used that to create amazing tricks.
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Online Chino

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Re: The science and nature thread v. We tried this before
« Reply #537 on: June 06, 2022, 05:54:42 AM »
Pretty neat article:
https://phys.org/news/2022-06-scientists-breakthrough-life-earthand-mars.html
 

Scientists announce a breakthrough in determining life's origin on Earth—and maybe Mars

Scientists at the Foundation for Applied Molecular Evolution announced today that ribonucleic acid (RNA), an analog of DNA that was likely the first genetic material for life, spontaneously forms on basalt lava glass. Such glass was abundant on Earth 4.35 billion years ago. Similar basalts of this antiquity survive on Mars today.

......

the Foundation study takes a simpler approach. Led by Elisa Biondi, the study shows that long RNA molecules, 100-200 nucleotides in length, form when nucleoside triphosphates do nothing more than percolate through basaltic glass.

"Basaltic glass was everywhere on Earth at the time," remarked Stephen Mojzsis, an Earth scientist who also participated in the study. "For several hundred million years after the Moon formed, frequent impacts coupled with abundant volcanism on the young planet formed molten basaltic lava, the source of the basalt glass. Impacts also evaporated water to give dry land, providing aquifers where RNA could have formed."

The same impacts also delivered nickel, which the team showed gives nucleoside triphosphates from nucleosides and activated phosphate, also found in lava glass. Borate (as in borax), also from the basalt, controls the formation of those triphosphates.


.......

The same rocks resolve the other paradoxes in making RNA in a path that moves all of the way from simple organic molecules to the first RNA. "For example, borate manages the formation of ribose, the 'R' in RNA," Benner added. This path starts from simple carbohydrates that could "not not" have formed in the atmosphere above primitive Earth. These were stabilized by volcanic sulfur dioxide, and then rained to the surface to create reservoirs of organic minerals.

Thus, this work completes a path that creates RNA from small organic molecules that were almost certainly present on the early Earth. A single geological model moves from one and two carbon molecules to give RNA molecules long enough to support Darwinian evolution.

"Important questions remain," cautions Benner. "We still do not know how all of the RNA building blocks came to have the same general shape, a relationship known as homochirality." Likewise, the linkages between the nucleotides can be variable in the material synthesized on basaltic glass. The import of this is not known.

Mars is relevant to this announcement because the same minerals, glasses, and impacts were also present on Mars of that antiquity. However, Mars has not suffered continental drift and plate tectonics that buried most rocks from Earth older than 4 billion years. Thus, rocks from the relevant time remain on the surface of Mars. Recent missions to Mars have found all of the needed rocks, including borate.

"If life emerged on Earth via this simple path, then it also likely emerged on Mars," said Benner. "This makes it even more important to seek life on Mars as soon as we can."