The science and nature thread v. We tried this before

[CDrice]

I have no idea if it would actually work, but it seems like it could be a decent middle ground between those wanting to destroy the ''Big industries'' and those who want to keep the status quo.

I think for me, it is imperative we break the paradigms of "destroy" and "status quo".  I want neither.  I don't want "status quo" any more than I want to drive energy prices through the roof by putting the oil companies out of business.  That's the old way - or rather, the advocacy way - of thinking.   I am more than happy to buy my (future) solar panels from Exxon.  Or buy my mini-packaged nuclear reactor from Shell.    Sure, some companies will only go kicking and screaming, and that's on them.  But the smart ones are going to go in the direction where it makes the most sense to make the most money for the longest period of time.  It's that simple.  Corporations are like puppies; they are predictable and they are compliant, IF you know the right way of motivating their behavior.  Continually "attacking" them and "browbeating" them on moral terms is not the way to do it.  Never was, and never will be.

Yeah, that's pretty much the idea I was trying to get across. Thank you for putting it out more clearly that I could ever have 

[rumborak]

I am more than happy to buy my (future) solar panels from Exxon.

I find this a weird notion to entertain. To my understanding, Exxon has no ambitions in terms of renewables, and even if they did, they'd be decades behind the curve of China etc.
if you want solar panels, it's 99% certain it'll have the label "Made in China" on it.

[Stadler]

I am more than happy to buy my (future) solar panels from Exxon.

I find this a weird notion to entertain. To my understanding, Exxon has no ambitions in terms of renewables, and even if they did, they'd be decades behind the curve of China etc.
if you want solar panels, it's 99% certain it'll have the label "Made in China" on it.

They have no ambitions because right now, ROI is not anywhere where it should be for a company that entertains the level of risk an Exxon does.  But these things aren't static.   You won't be able to sell panels in the States to any government agency or under any government funded program that are wholly "Made In China" (it's called "Buy America"), so there will be a market once the market matures enough to support it.  Exxon is not going to just close it's doors and say "oh well, we had a good run!" if and when the total lifecycle cost of renewables (including R&D) drop low enough.

[rumborak]

That's all super pie in the sky. It's much more likely that Exxon will slowly fade away, with foreign renewables producers undercutting their revenue. And from personal experience with the gov't, it is a total myth that the gov't can't buy foreign products. It just takes more paperwork. Or, (which I've seen firsthand), the gov't buys from a domestic reseller who marks it up.

[Stadler]

That's all super pie in the sky. It's much more likely that Exxon will slowly fade away, with foreign renewables producers undercutting their revenue. And from personal experience with the gov't, it is a total myth that the gov't can't buy foreign products. It just takes more paperwork. Or, (which I've seen firsthand), the gov't buys from a domestic reseller who marks it up.

I'm well aware of the process for doing business with the government.  I'm counsel for a billion dollar business that sells almost exclusively to the US government under various rail programs (this includes regional transit authorities using grant money from the US government), and before that I was counsel for a company that did environmental construction projects for the DoD and EPA.  There are plenty of ways to do it, but they all cost money, not all of it recoupable through margin.  But even with that, who do you think that "domestic reseller" is going to be?

The bottom line is, and I will bet you on it, is that Exxon is not "fading away".  If nothing else, they have a fiduciary duty to their stockholders, and if the US government is smart (I know, I know, that IS pie in the sky) they won't be able to continue what little fossil fuel business they do have if they don't participate in broader energy programs.  They may not literally sell solar panels in five years, but they are not going anywhere.  "AT&T".  "IBM".   Two companies that have survived (and thrived) after similar transcendent shifts in the nature of the economy.  You will be adding Exxon to that list before too long. 

[jasc15]

How might you convey the age of the earth to a 4 year old?  They barely know what 100 is, so I guess it would be pretty difficult.

[Stadler]

How might you convey the age of the earth to a 4 year old?  They barely know what 100 is, so I guess it would be pretty difficult.

Well, I found visual means were best with my daughter.  I would probably try to do something like "Hey, here are four jelly beans, that's YOUR age, and here are 10,000 jelly beans, that's the EARTH'S age". 

[CDrice]

How might you convey the age of the earth to a 4 year old?  They barely know what 100 is, so I guess it would be pretty difficult.

Even now in my twenties I have a hard time wrapping my head around how old the earth is. So yeah, good luck with that 

[Chino]

How might you convey the age of the earth to a 4 year old?  They barely know what 100 is, so I guess it would be pretty difficult.

Well, I found visual means were best with my daughter.  I would probably try to do something like "Hey, here are four jelly beans, that's YOUR age, and here are 10,000 jelly beans, that's the EARTH'S age".

You'd need 4.6 billion jelly beans.

[CDrice]

How might you convey the age of the earth to a 4 year old?  They barely know what 100 is, so I guess it would be pretty difficult.

Well, I found visual means were best with my daughter.  I would probably try to do something like "Hey, here are four jelly beans, that's YOUR age, and here are 10,000 jelly beans, that's the EARTH'S age".

You'd need 4.6 billion jelly beans.

October 31 Breaking news:
''Yesterday multiple candy shops around the country have been robbed. However the thieves didn't touch the money. All they seemed to be interested in was the jellybeans. We estimate the total amount of stolen candies to be around 4.6 billions. The police have no suspect for now, but we will keep you informed as more details come in.''

[jasc15]

Jelly beans aren't a bad idea.  If they are about 1 cc in volume, 4.6 billion of them would fill about 7 or 8 houses.

[Chino]

Jelly beans aren't a bad idea.  If they are about 1 cc in volume, 4.6 billion of them would fill about 7 or 8 houses.

You aren't accounting for the weight of the jelly beans. I did some research and 240 jelly beans weigh one pound.

4.6 billion jelly beans = 19,166,667 pounds

Assuming 8 houses, each house would have 2,395,833 pounds worth of jelly beans in them.

In the interest of safety, you will need more houses.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Nice little video about diffrent types of fuel and if they're flameable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nL10C7FSbE&ab_channel=JustThink

[rumborak]

How might you convey the age of the earth to a 4 year old?  They barely know what 100 is, so I guess it would be pretty difficult.

Well, I found visual means were best with my daughter.  I would probably try to do something like "Hey, here are four jelly beans, that's YOUR age, and here are 10,000 jelly beans, that's the EARTH'S age".

Secretly hoping that it wasn't a young-Earth post, your analogy still leaves the child with the problem that 10,000 is way beyond comprehension for a 4-year old.

Maybe a better way of going about it is "if you squeezed your life into one second, then Earth was created 30 years ago". Both a second and a year is something a child understands.

EDIT: Alternatively, show her the Carl Sagan episode where he talks about the calendar of the universe.

[Stadler]

It was a joke cast out into a thread where there is zero sense of humor. 

[Chino]

It was a joke cast out into a thread where there is zero sense of humor.

We have a sense of humor. I'll demonstrate.

Two atoms are walking along. One of them says:
“Oh, no, I think I lost an electron.”
“Are you sure?”
“Yes, I’m positive.


Why can’t atheists solve exponential equations? Because they don’t believe in higher powers.


Schrodinger’s cat walks into a bar. And doesn’t.



Thank you. I'll be here all week.

[jasc15]

Maybe a better way of going about it is "if you squeezed your life into one second, then Earth was created 30 years ago". Both a second and a year is something a child understands.

EDIT: Alternatively, show her the Carl Sagan episode where he talks about the calendar of the universe.

I think even those two things might be too much of an abstraction for a 4 year old.  Physically seeing a quantity of something might be better:

Here's you: 4 jelly beans.
Here's me: 32 jelly beans.
Here's earth: 8 houses full of jelly beans.

Someone who knows something about kids should chime in here.

[rumborak]

Physical exertion. "One step is your life time. Now run the Earth's age, I'll tell you when to stop."

[Stadler]

Maybe a better way of going about it is "if you squeezed your life into one second, then Earth was created 30 years ago". Both a second and a year is something a child understands.

EDIT: Alternatively, show her the Carl Sagan episode where he talks about the calendar of the universe.

I think even those two things might be too much of an abstraction for a 4 year old.  Physically seeing a quantity of something might be better:

Here's you: 4 jelly beans.
Here's me: 32 jelly beans.
Here's earth: 8 houses full of jelly beans.

Someone who knows something about kids should chime in here.

Seeing as I offered up the jelly bean metaphor to start with, I think you nailed it.   Unfortunately, I need 47 beans (at that isn't "Young Earth" thinking. ;0 ).

[Chino]

Physical exertion. "One step is your life time. Now run the Earth's age, I'll tell you when to stop."

 

[jammindude]

I'm glad I live close to the Pacific Science Center.   They have illustrations made just for kids to show this kindof stuff.   

At one point, they had a very long line laid out on the floor showing the age of the universe.   The earth's history was laid out in a small band at the end, and human history had an arrow pointing to a line the width of a human hair.    Kids get the point pretty quickly.     I used to take my kids to the science center nearly every month when they were young.   

[Chino]

I'm glad I live close to the Pacific Science Center.   They have illustrations made just for kids to show this kindof stuff.   

At one point, they had a very long line laid out on the floor showing the age of the universe.   The earth's history was laid out in a small band at the end, and human history had an arrow pointing to a line the width of a human hair.    Kids get the point pretty quickly.     I used to take my kids to the science center nearly every month when they were young.

I work within walking distance of the Connecticut Science Center. I get free entry with my work ID. I got there on lunch breaks some times.

[rumborak]

Boston's Museum of Science has a a model of the sun in its center. What's really cool is, the other planets are strewn, to scale, around the Greater Boston area.

[orcus116]

That's really cool. Is there a map or where the planets are?

[XJDenton]

Boston's Museum of Science has a a model of the sun in its center. What's really cool is, the other planets are strewn, to scale, around the Greater Boston area.

Sweden has an awesome model like that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Solar_System

[Chino]

https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/genetic/gmo-rice-methane-0523564/

Following a three-year-long trial in the rice of fields of China, scientists report a new genetically modified strain that promises to dramatically reduce the otherwise huge carbon footprint of rice farming. The new GMO crop emits only 1% of the methane – a highly potent greenhouse gas – that an unaltered rice paddies leaches out into the atmosphere

Read more: https://www.zmescience.com/medicine/genetic/gmo-rice-methane-0523564/#ixzz3hCHQWple

[kaos2900]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but this literally made me sick to my stomach with anger. What the fuck is wrong with people and why do they feel the urge to go and kill shit for no reason other than to satisfy their egos?  I hope he gets what he deserves. Seriously humans piss me off. Oh, and if anyone is interested a quick google search can get you his email...

https://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/07/28/american-dentist-said-to-have-paid-55000-to-kill-cecil-lion/

[BlobVanDam]

I don't see what that has to do with science (but the link has the word science in it, so I'm questioning them, not you).
Oh wait, this is apparently for nature too.

[Chino]

This is cool.

https://www.popsci.com/you-can-soon-buy-rings-cufflinks-made-smog

Once you suck smog out of the air, what should you do with it? Pollution particles are mostly made up of carbon, so Dutch Artist Daan Roosegaarde decided to compress them into jewelry in a nod to diamond, carbon's sparkliest allotrope.

[Podaar]

Travel at light-speed from the Sun to Jupiter

I actually watched the whole thing. Spoiler alert: Make a sandwich and get a drink.

[Chino]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but this literally made me sick to my stomach with anger. What the fuck is wrong with people and why do they feel the urge to go and kill shit for no reason other than to satisfy their egos?  I hope he gets what he deserves. Seriously humans piss me off. Oh, and if anyone is interested a quick google search can get you his email...

https://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/07/28/american-dentist-said-to-have-paid-55000-to-kill-cecil-lion/

The guy's website is down and his business is getting hammered on Yelp

https://www.yelp.com/biz/palmer-walter-j-dntst-minneapolis

[Big Hath]

that yelp link may have some NSFW material in some of the "reviews".  I saw something that looked questionable and immediately closed the window.  Click at your own risk.

[yorost]

Travel at light-speed from the Sun to Jupiter

I actually watched the whole thing. Spoiler alert: Make a sandwich and get a drink.

While cool for scale, I thought it was going to show us the visual affects of special relativity.

...ok, I found something. Read about it, but never thought to look for a demonstration before.

https://www.snotr.com/video/8149/Optical_effects_of_travelling_close_to_the_speed_of_light

[Stadler]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but this literally made me sick to my stomach with anger. What the fuck is wrong with people and why do they feel the urge to go and kill shit for no reason other than to satisfy their egos?  I hope he gets what he deserves. Seriously humans piss me off. Oh, and if anyone is interested a quick google search can get you his email...

https://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/07/28/american-dentist-said-to-have-paid-55000-to-kill-cecil-lion/

The guy's website is down and his business is getting hammered on Yelp

https://www.yelp.com/biz/palmer-walter-j-dntst-minneapolis

And I'm sure many feel that's a good thing.   If he did something illegal, let the courts decide.  Until they do, this is mob rules.   

[rumborak]

Why are you giving the thumbs down to people voicing their discontent on a site specifically meant for that purpose?
How is it different from people writing a review saying "guy was a jerk when I was there, will never go there again"? Here it is "guy is morally despicable, will never go there again".