Author Topic: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded  (Read 379898 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #770 on: January 08, 2014, 10:33:38 PM »
And until recently, I'd never heard of anyone who actually liked that bass noodling. Metallica is probably one of the last metal bands that should inspire anybody to pick up a bass guitar. :lol
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Just Kidding... :)
« Reply #771 on: January 08, 2014, 10:36:46 PM »
....Metallica had a bass player? ???

Offline bl5150

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #772 on: January 08, 2014, 10:46:41 PM »
When I want to hear a Metallica bass player do some cool stuff I drag out some Infectious Grooves.    I need to be in the mood but there's some cool stuff in there along with light entertainment in between tracks by Mr Sarsippius Sulenamagic Jackson da Turd :)   ..........hopefully someone remembers "Closed Session."
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« Reply #773 on: January 08, 2014, 10:53:16 PM »
Why you funk, why you funk, why you fuuunk funk fuuunkin, why you funkin...with mah head?
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Offline rickhawk80

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #774 on: January 09, 2014, 05:08:25 AM »
And until recently, I'd never heard of anyone who actually liked that bass noodling. Metallica is probably one of the last metal bands that should inspire anybody to pick up a bass guitar. :lol

....Metallica had a bass player? ???

Spoken like two people who never heard Cliff Burton.   ::)  The guy played bass like lead guitar.  I got the chance to see Metallica when Cliff was still alive back when they were still an opening act and his playing was unreal.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #775 on: January 09, 2014, 05:20:02 AM »
I didn't realize my opinion didn't count unless I saw him live in person. So sorry about that.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rickhawk80

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #776 on: January 09, 2014, 05:26:09 AM »
No apology necessary, Blob.   ;)  You didn't need to see him live to know his greatness, but if you had seen him live you'd know why your post that said Metallica would not inspire anyone to pick up a bass guitar sounds so absurd to an old dude like me.  Because Cliff inspired multitudes.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #777 on: January 09, 2014, 05:29:59 AM »
There's nothing special about the bass playing on Metallica's early albums, especially compared to other heavy bands of the time like Maiden. The majority of it was just doubling the guitar riffs, with the occasional simple deviation. There were a lot more influential bass players of the time. Playing bass like a guitar does not make good bass playing. It makes a guitar player who got stuck on bass. Anesthesia is a great example of why it doesn't really work.
I'm not saying he was bad at all, but I don't understand why he's suddenly considered so amazing, aside from the dead factor.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #778 on: January 09, 2014, 06:26:53 AM »
^ :clap:

Offline TAC

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #779 on: January 09, 2014, 06:30:02 AM »
I think as a live performer, Cliff was a real gem, but if I'm being objective, I think as a bass player, he was barely average.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #780 on: January 09, 2014, 07:24:19 AM »
Seriously, if you want a great metal bass player, look at Sean Malone or Dan Briggs. Freakin' mindblowing.

Offline Outcrier

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #781 on: January 09, 2014, 10:05:18 AM »
The guy played bass like lead guitar.

That would be John Entwistle  :P
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #782 on: January 09, 2014, 10:18:11 AM »

Offline PixelDream

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #783 on: January 09, 2014, 11:00:42 AM »
Seriously, if you want a great metal bass player, look at Sean Malone or Dan Briggs. Freakin' mindblowing.

Not as mindblowing but awesome as well: the bass players for Tool, Karnivool and Isis. Deep grooves and creative melodic bassplaying. Really tasteful.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #784 on: January 09, 2014, 11:29:04 AM »
And Myung of course ! ;)

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #785 on: January 09, 2014, 04:17:07 PM »
Seriously, if you want a great metal bass player, look at Sean Malone or Dan Briggs. Freakin' mindblowing.

Not as mindblowing but awesome as well: the bass players for Tool, Karnivool and Isis. Deep grooves and creative melodic bassplaying. Really tasteful.

Huh?  If you want a great metal bass player, go find these guys that take influence from bass players like Burton?

 :justjen

EDIT:  I think the fact that you can hardly even HEAR Cliff on the recordings is to the detriment of his legacy.  AFAIK he's largely responsible for much of the harmonic structure on the early albums, and is a key player in the overall vibe of the first 3 albums.  As a metal bass player, I think he's deeply influential, sure.  No-one was playing like him.  But I don't think his playing was his strong suit, when you look at the awesome classically influenced passages all over the first three albums; they pretty much stop after his passing. 

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #786 on: January 09, 2014, 04:21:28 PM »
Influence doesn't make him a great (in terms of technical skill) bass player. Ringo was an influential drummer, but there's no way he could match guys like Portnoy, Harrison, Minnemann, Donati etc.

Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #787 on: January 09, 2014, 04:26:35 PM »
There's nothing special about the bass playing on Metallica's early albums, especially compared to other heavy bands of the time like Maiden. The majority of it was just doubling the guitar riffs, with the occasional simple deviation. There were a lot more influential bass players of the time. Playing bass like a guitar does not make good bass playing. It makes a guitar player who got stuck on bass. Anesthesia is a great example of why it doesn't really work.
I'm not saying he was bad at all, but I don't understand why he's suddenly considered so amazing, aside from the dead factor.
There's a certain song (that may be referenced in my sig) that is one of the greatest bass performances of all time. There's also another instrumental song on Ride the Lightning that would like a word with you. You don't have to deviate from the guitar lines to be a good bass player, or even a great one. Cliff was fantastic, and the 3 instrumentals he was a part of should quite readily shut up any kind of detractors. And this logic of "influence doesn't make him great" is utterly fucking laughable. I guess Jimmy Page and Tony Iommi weren't great either, since Yngwie Malmsteen, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, and John Petrucci can all play circles around them.

Seriously.
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #788 on: January 09, 2014, 04:27:21 PM »
Influence doesn't make him a great (in terms of technical skill) bass player. Ringo was an influential drummer, but there's no way he could match guys like Portnoy, Harrison, Minnemann, Donati etc.

And? Thats like saying, 'The Model T is influential, but theres no way it can match a Maserati'.  Of course modern musicians are going to be better than the ones that came before, its natural progression.  Cliff was a great player, and a great influence on metal bass players whether Blob likes it or not :P

EDIT: ninja'd by UMH

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #789 on: January 09, 2014, 04:29:42 PM »
I'm not saying the guy wasn't good, just the stuff equating his playing to the second coming of Christ seems a bit excessive.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #790 on: January 09, 2014, 04:34:45 PM »
Oh my god sneakyblueberry when did you get back?  :omg:

I'm not saying the guy wasn't good, just the stuff equating his playing to the second coming of Christ seems a bit excessive.
Why is Cliff so revered? Call of Ktulu and Orion. Simple as that. Nobody was treating bass ANYTHING like that before Cliff did it with Metallica. And the fact of the matter is, while there were great bass players before Cliff (Steve Harris and Geezer Butler come to mind), the trend at the time was thrash, and none of the big 4 were doing anything nearly as complex with the bass. Hell, nobody OUTSIDE the big 4 was doing it. You have to put yourself in the time frame to really appreciate some things.
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Offline rickhawk80

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #791 on: January 09, 2014, 04:42:18 PM »
Why is Cliff so revered? Call of Ktulu and Orion. Simple as that. Nobody was treating bass ANYTHING like that before Cliff did it with Metallica. And the fact of the matter is, while there were great bass players before Cliff (Steve Harris and Geezer Butler come to mind), the trend at the time was thrash, and none of the big 4 were doing anything nearly as complex with the bass. Hell, nobody OUTSIDE the big 4 was doing it. You have to put yourself in the time frame to really appreciate some things.
This.  :clap:  And I'd add his songwriting talents, too.  His credits are all over the first 3 albums.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #792 on: January 09, 2014, 04:46:12 PM »
Oh definitely. The songwriting was certainly a major benefit too. Like someone else said (don't know if it was sneak or someone else), the classical influences dropped straight out of Metallica after Burton died (except for To Live is to Die, which is made mostly of Burton's riffs. Go figure). Part of the reason I hold AJFA so much lower than the other 3 "classic albums" is because of that glaring absence. The creativity of the riffs between something like Damage Inc and Dyer's Eve is absolutely night and day.
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #793 on: January 09, 2014, 06:07:51 PM »
Oh my god sneakyblueberry when did you get back?  :omg:

Hola!  :hat

Oh definitely. The songwriting was certainly a major benefit too. Like someone else said (don't know if it was sneak or someone else), the classical influences dropped straight out of Metallica after Burton died (except for To Live is to Die, which is made mostly of Burton's riffs. Go figure). Part of the reason I hold AJFA so much lower than the other 3 "classic albums" is because of that glaring absence. The creativity of the riffs between something like Damage Inc and Dyer's Eve is absolutely night and day.

This, exactly.  I would say the last great slow, classical influenced Metallica instrumental section is the slow part in To Live is to Die, which is absolutely perfect. 

Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #794 on: January 12, 2014, 02:35:48 PM »
And? Thats like saying, 'The Model T is influential, but theres no way it can match a Maserati'. 

I'm pretty sure I made that exact argument before.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #795 on: January 12, 2014, 02:41:48 PM »
And? Thats like saying, 'The Model T is influential, but theres no way it can match a Maserati'. 

I'm pretty sure I made that exact argument before.

Haha sorry dude, not an intentional rip if so. 

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #796 on: January 13, 2014, 06:49:16 AM »
Way to "feed the machine" there...

Nice to know I made an impact though.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #797 on: January 13, 2014, 10:25:31 AM »
Speaking as someone who was there...yeah. You had to be there. You had to SEE Cliff Burton play. You had to put on a Metallica album and hear what he was doing, and then put on a Judas Priest album and try to FIND the bass part, to really get how good he was.

And the notion that being influential doesn't make you great is flat out...FLAT OUT...the dumbest thing anyone's ever said here. That deserves a prize.

Were there better bassists than Cliff Burton at the time? Sure. LOADS. But saying the bass playing in early Metallica is bad and he wasn't influential to a generation of metal bassists can only be said by (1) not being there and (2) really not listening to the first three Metallica albums.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #798 on: January 13, 2014, 11:03:25 AM »
I'm certain you can be influential AND not very good at the same time.

I'm sure Jack White has inspired loads of people to play guitar - but is he a GREAT guitar player - certainly not.



p.s. This is just an example - I don't think Cliff was a "bad" player. Just not the be all and end all of bass playing...

Offline ariich

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #799 on: January 13, 2014, 02:37:05 PM »
And the notion that being influential doesn't make you great is flat out...FLAT OUT...the dumbest thing anyone's ever said here. That deserves a prize.
Holy hyperbole!

There's no need to be quite so ridiculous. "Great" is very much a subjective term.

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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #800 on: January 13, 2014, 03:52:57 PM »
Speaking as someone who was there...yeah. You had to be there. You had to SEE Cliff Burton play. You had to put on a Metallica album and hear what he was doing, and then put on a Judas Priest album and try to FIND the bass part, to really get how good he was.

And the notion that being influential doesn't make you great is flat out...FLAT OUT...the dumbest thing anyone's ever said here. That deserves a prize.

Were there better bassists than Cliff Burton at the time? Sure. LOADS. But saying the bass playing in early Metallica is bad and he wasn't influential to a generation of metal bassists can only be said by (1) not being there and (2) really not listening to the first three Metallica albums.

I'm not saying he wasn't influential. That doesn't mean I want to listen to him.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #801 on: January 13, 2014, 07:09:26 PM »
Wow, I cannot believe the what I'm hearing about Kill "Em All.
It's pretty raw, but the album is absolute genius and the foundation for everything that came after it. I rank it as one of the most important metal albums of all time.

Oh well, I guess if you don't like listening to it, so be it. I hate the Beatles! :lol

KEA is awesome. Shows how you can have crushing heavy riffs without the stupid down-tuning.

TBA has some nice songs, but it's when Metallica went from fast, lethal Velociraptor to dull, plodding Diplodicus.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #802 on: January 13, 2014, 07:38:33 PM »
TBA has some nice songs, but it's when Metallica went from fast, lethal Velociraptor to dull, plodding Diplodicus.

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #803 on: January 13, 2014, 10:30:11 PM »
Now use Dinosaurs to portray the career trajectory of Megadeth.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #804 on: January 13, 2014, 10:35:30 PM »
With the greenhouse in effect, the tyrannosaurus was REXED!!
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