The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded

[Kotowboy]

They can't write good long songs anymore. They just drag them out for the sake of it.

A 60 - 75 minute album of 4 - 5 minute songs would be great.

[Zantera]

Pfft, St. Anger was mostly long songs and it worked out fine. 

[pogoowner]

They can't write good long songs anymore. They just drag them out for the sake of it.

A 60 - 75 minute album of 4 - 5 minute songs would be great.

Give me 45 minutes of 4-5 minute songs and I'd be happy. No need for filler.

[425]

I would love to have an album similar to AJFA. Their songwriting at that point was at its most progressive and they had some pretty intricate arrangements. Blackened, The Shortest Straw, Frayed Ends of Sanity, and the title track are among my favorite Metallica songs of all time and if we can get an album in the spirit of songs like that, I would be overjoyed.

I think they still can write good long songs—Death Magnetic proved that, in my book—but I think we already just (lol 8 years ago but you know what I mean) got that with Death Magnetic. It's hard to say that DM isn't very, very similar to AJFA already. I'd like to get something a bit different.

[mikeyd23]

I'd love if the new album took more of TBA feel, but honestly I think it will be an extension of DM and BM. If they nail the production that'll be okay I guess.

It would be cool to hear slower tempo stuff like TBA and the Loads, but when you have that dirty, slow, groovy stuff, the production needs to match the weight of the music. DM did not have weight from a production standpoint, so if they were to slow some songs down, I'd really like to hear them get that big, layered sound back that they had in the 90s.

[NotePad]

Another DM would be great considering it is very much like their older stuff. I don't get why so many complain about the album, musically it is exactly what fans have been asking for. For the record, I am a fan of all Metallica.

[pogoowner]

Another DM would be great considering it is very much like their older stuff. I don't get why so many complain about the album, musically it is exactly what fans have been asking for. For the record, I am a fan of all Metallica.

I was pleasantly surprised when it came out. If the audio production wasn't so bad, and if they had edited some of the songs down a little bit, I think it would be outstanding. Maybe not outstanding. But very good.

[Adami]

Another DM would be great considering it is very much like their older stuff. I don't get why so many complain about the album, musically it is exactly what fans have been asking for. For the record, I am a fan of all Metallica.

Eh, it's really not though. Lots of bands are fast and thrashy but haven't met the quality of early Metallica. It was the quality, not how fast/thrashy everything was that made it loved and good.

Here are my main issues with DM, and I admit that there are exceptions to just about every one of these.

1. Awful, awful production
2. Pretty bad lyrics that don't have a ton of meaning or significance
3. Lars is seriously barely holding it together. The drumming is neither interesting nor good, it's sloppy and lazy as all hell.
4. Kirk's solos are just awful. Feels like he went in and improvised something quickly and left
5. No vocal harmonies?
6. Some good riffs, but also some truly boring riffs that just got repeated and repeated and repeated
7. Poor song structures

Honestly, it felt exactly like it was. A bunch of near 50 year old guys trying to sound like what they think people wanted form a Metallica album.

[Zantera]

It's not enough to go out with the intent to make exactly what the fans want, because it's about the execution. There was no passion or spark in DM and it just sounded flat. The band might have gone into it with the best intentions, aka pleasing the fans, but they couldn't deliver something that great. After hearing the new Vektor album this year, which shows how trash metal should be done, I don't see how Metallica are gonna be able to get close to something like it.

[BlobVanDam]

Adami basically nailed it.
You can't just judge music on a checklist of features, it all comes down to the quality. And I also don't think it captured the old style that well. The structures weren't that interesting or varied, the music wasn't as layered or melodic, it was sloppy instrumental sections of new riff and bad solo tacked into the middle of what probably should have been a much shorter song. You can't force lightning to strike twice. They're not the same guys in the same head space they were when writing those early albums.

[mikeyd23]

1. Awful, awful production
2. Pretty bad lyrics that don't have a ton of meaning or significance
3. Lars is seriously barely holding it together. The drumming is neither interesting nor good, it's sloppy and lazy as all hell.
4. Kirk's solos are just awful. Feels like he went in and improvised something quickly and left
5. No vocal harmonies?
6. Some good riffs, but also some truly boring riffs that just got repeated and repeated and repeated
7. Poor song structures

I can't argue with any of that. The funny thing is that most of that is easily fixable.

1. For a band of their standing, budget shouldn't be an issue, so a good sounding record with pristine production should be attainable.
2. There are some good lyrics and some not so good ones, this really just comes down to Het (and maybe a good producer to push him?).
3. I'd lump a lot of Lars' performance into the poor production category. There are times it sounds like he is losing the tempo and stuff might fall apart. Why wouldn't they clean that up and quantize those drum hits?!
4. Kirk needs a good producer to create good solos now a days. I firmly believe that, and I also firmly believe that Lars is not that person.
5. Het is clearly capable of great harmonies...Once again, where is the voice of a producer suggesting something more than one vocal track?
6. and 7. I would lump into have a better pre-production process...

Most of it is fixable...

[Stadler]

1. Awful, awful production
2. Pretty bad lyrics that don't have a ton of meaning or significance
3. Lars is seriously barely holding it together. The drumming is neither interesting nor good, it's sloppy and lazy as all hell.
4. Kirk's solos are just awful. Feels like he went in and improvised something quickly and left
5. No vocal harmonies?
6. Some good riffs, but also some truly boring riffs that just got repeated and repeated and repeated
7. Poor song structures

I can't argue with any of that. The funny thing is that most of that is easily fixable.

1. For a band of their standing, budget shouldn't be an issue, so a good sounding record with pristine production should be attainable.
2. There are some good lyrics and some not so good ones, this really just comes down to Het (and maybe a good producer to push him?).
3. I'd lump a lot of Lars' performance into the poor production category. There are times it sounds like he is losing the tempo and stuff might fall apart. Why wouldn't they clean that up and quantize those drum hits?!
4. Kirk needs a good producer to create good solos now a days. I firmly believe that, and I also firmly believe that Lars is not that person.
5. Het is clearly capable of great harmonies...Once again, where is the voice of a producer suggesting something more than one vocal track?
6. and 7. I would lump into have a better pre-production process...

Most of it is fixable...

Who says it needs fixing?  Yeah there are people, like Margot Robbie, that we can all agree are smoking hot, but there are a millions of women that fall into the next category, that are attractive to some and not to all.   I personally think that Kirstie Alley is gorgeous.  A little heavy, and starting to look her age, but gorgeous.   That doesn't mean that everyone must think she's gorgeous too.   

I have to assume - absent some clear indication otherwise - that DM is produced and sounds exactly the way that James and Lars want it to.   

[Train of Naught]

DM is fantastic, one of Metallica's finest

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Margot Robbie doesn't do much for me personally.

I thought the production on Death Magnetic was terrible, but the album itself was OK. Although I haven't listened to it/wanted to listen to it for ages, so maybe that says something about the quality.

[mikeyd23]

Who says it needs fixing?  Yeah there are people, like Margot Robbie, that we can all agree are smoking hot, but there are a millions of women that fall into the next category, that are attractive to some and not to all.   I personally think that Kirstie Alley is gorgeous.  A little heavy, and starting to look her age, but gorgeous.   That doesn't mean that everyone must think she's gorgeous too.   

I have to assume - absent some clear indication otherwise - that DM is produced and sounds exactly the way that James and Lars want it to.

Ah, I should have stated this clearer maybe. Those "fixes" would make me enjoy the record more. 

Totally selfish post.

[Kotowboy]

^ Have you heard the iTunes Remaster of Death Magnetic ?

It's a lot clearer and you can make out a lot more detail. Check it out or PM me if you want to know where to find it i.e. my dropbox.

[cramx3]

For all of DM's faults, it's light years better than St. Anger so at least we can agree that the trend seems to be upwards?

[mikeyd23]

^ Have you heard the iTunes Remaster of Death Magnetic ?

It's a lot clearer and you can make out a lot more detail. Check it out or PM me if you want to know where to find it i.e. my dropbox.

I haven't heard it yet. But I read over on the Metallica boards that its a big improvement sonically. Worth checking out?

[Kotowboy]

Yes !

[Kotowboy]

Metallica are still mixing according to their Instagram.

Which could mean that they're mixing all the songs they've recorded ( about 20 or so ) and will pick the best running order...

Or there's a lot of overdubs more akin to Reload and it's taking longer to mix than drums, bass, LR Rhythms, vocals and solos.

[mikeyd23]

Or there's a lot of overdubs more akin to Reload and it's taking longer to mix than drums, bass, LR Rhythms, vocals and solos.

I'd be cool with more layers.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Has the possibility of a double album been denied? If not, I may consider that, especially to make up for the wait & all. How good that would be would be up for debate though.

[BlobVanDam]

Has the possibility of a double album been denied? If not, I may consider that, especially to make up for the wait & all. How good that would be would be up for debate though.

I think Load/Reload puts to rest any debate there. I highly doubt they've recorded 20 classics.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Has the possibility of a double album been denied? If not, I may consider that, especially to make up for the wait & all. How good that would be would be up for debate though.

I think Load/Reload puts to rest any debate there. I highly doubt they've recorded 20 classics.

I do too, but I wouldn't fully discount the possibility of a double album happening anyway.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Another thing too, with all the hype this album has been getting, plus how Metallica is pretty much a household name at this point, would anyone else think it'd be a possible November/December release?

[425]

I have to assume - absent some clear indication otherwise - that DM is produced and sounds exactly the way that James and Lars want it to.

If this is true, then James and Lars are deaf. Seriously, Death Magnetic's production is awful. It is bad to the point where it actively distorts the music and can be painful to hear. I know you really don't like to say that something that a band did is wrong, rather than not to your preference or whatever, but there is a degree of objective quality in production and DM completely fails. If it's intentional, it's a terrible intentional decision (as it was on St. Anger). If it's not intentional, which seems to be the case from the fact that James and Lars seem to have no idea that there's a problem, it's because those two don't hear so well anymore, or weren't listening on good speakers.

There's room for debate and artist's creative decisions in production. For example, deciding between a "warm" production like DT or a "cold" production like Opeth. There isn't a right answer there and the artist's intentions are important. But the choice between "clipping the album to hell to the point where the audio distorts for no good reason" and "not doing that aforementioned terrible thing" isn't just a matter of opinion, it's a choice between doing things poorly and doing them well.

^ Have you heard the iTunes Remaster of Death Magnetic ?

It's a lot clearer and you can make out a lot more detail. Check it out or PM me if you want to know where to find it i.e. my dropbox.

I haven't heard it yet. But I read over on the Metallica boards that its a big improvement sonically. Worth checking out?

This sounds interesting. I listen to one of the Guitar Hero versions, which is fine except it's the most bare-bones mix ever and lacks a certain degree of punch. I may grab this just before I listen to this album for the survivor. It's just on iTunes, right?

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The last Metallica albums that sounded good-ish were Load and Reload.

Also, the judgment of the band members is crap. I recall Lars saying not long ago that he still thinks Death Magnetic sounds incredible.

[mikeyd23]

This sounds interesting. I listen to one of the Guitar Hero versions, which is fine except it's the most bare-bones mix ever and lacks a certain degree of punch. I may grab this just before I listen to this album for the survivor. It's just on iTunes, right?

Yeah its the Mastered for iTunes version, so it's only available on iTunes. I checked it out when Kotow suggested it... Its a pretty big improvement, I'd definitely recommend it.

[devieira73]

Anyone here listened to DM on vinyl? I'm curious to know if the vinyl mastering is the same for itunes or if it is better.
By the way, I think that Black Album and Reload have killer overall sound, mix and mastering!Really among the best that I know.

[425]

This sounds interesting. I listen to one of the Guitar Hero versions, which is fine except it's the most bare-bones mix ever and lacks a certain degree of punch. I may grab this just before I listen to this album for the survivor. It's just on iTunes, right?

Yeah its the Mastered for iTunes version, so it's only available on iTunes. I checked it out when Kotow suggested it... Its a pretty big improvement, I'd definitely recommend it.

Turned out I'd already bought this album on iTunes, years ago, before the Mastered for iTunes version existed, so I was able to download the new version for free. And yep, this is what I hoped it would be. Much punchier than the Guitar Hero version, but without any clipping that I can hear. Happy to finally have a version of this album that is good to listen to.

[devieira73]

According to this forum:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/metallica-catalogue-now-mastered-for-itunes.444007/
The hd version from metallica.com is the iTunes remaster.
Cool, I will buy it!

[Kotowboy]

James has ruled out a double album saying they'd rather focus on a single album.

[425]

That's probably for the best. Plus it would have been too weird if Iron Maiden, Dream Theater and Metallica all did double albums within the same 15 month period.

[Kotowboy]

That's probably for the best. Plus it would have been too weird if Iron Maiden, Dream Theater and Metallica all did double albums within the same 15 month period.

Yes. It means a lot less chance of weak tracks if they focus on picking the 10 best tracks.

Also - in 2008 Metallica put out a 10 minute instrumental

the next year - Therapy?s 2009 album had a 10 minute instrumental.

[BlobVanDam]

James has ruled out a double album saying they'd rather focus on a single album.

Expected, but still good news. I'm not entirely convinced of Metallica managing a single disc of great material, let alone two.