Author Topic: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded  (Read 379855 times)

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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1925 on: April 19, 2016, 04:39:46 PM »
I assume because it has a good amount of classic songs.

Seek and Destroy
The Four Horsemen
Whiplash

And to a lesser extent
Motorbreath
Jump in the Fire
No Remorse

That's at least three classic songs and often live staples.

Don't forget Hit the Lights. The only real "deep cuts" on the album that they never really play are (Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth and Metal Militia.
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Offline 425

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1926 on: April 19, 2016, 04:55:05 PM »
Why do people always include Kill Em All with " The classic " albums ?

It's got good tracks but it's nowhere near as consistent as Ride or Master.

Conversely people always leave out The Black Album when it's just as good as the first 4 albums. If not better ( Kill Em All definitely ).

Agreed 100%. I don't particularly care much for KEA. Maybe it's just that it's such an immature album lyrically, but I almost never listen to it. Musically it's decent, but RTL was an impressive step up IMO. And The Black Album is definitely superior to KEA. As is DM. And Load probably is, too.
Are you fan of old school thrash?

No, I'm not, which is probably part of why I'm not so keen on KEA. I appreciate that Ride the Lightning tempered a lot of the thrashiness. I don't really consider any Metallica except KEA to really be straightforwardly thrash. More like thrash-influenced heavy metal.


I assume because it has a good amount of classic songs.

Seek and Destroy
The Four Horsemen
Whiplash

And to a lesser extent
Motorbreath
Jump in the Fire
No Remorse

That's at least three classic songs and often live staples.

And that's fair enough, but I think most of those songs fall short of a majority of the songs on The Black Album and the better half of the songs on Load. I think The Four Horsemen is the only song on KEA that would compete with my top three or four on The Black Album, and it would not compete with my top three or four on Load (I like The Black Album better than Load, but I like my favorites on Load more than my favorites on The Black Album—I think Load could have been a really good 60 minute album and instead it's a pretty good 80 minute album).
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1927 on: April 19, 2016, 04:58:59 PM »

Don't forget Hit the Lights. The only real "deep cuts" on the album that they never really play are (Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth and Metal Militia.

Ironically they played Metal Militia at their most recent gig.

Offline Outcrier

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1928 on: April 19, 2016, 05:04:15 PM »
I'm one of the guys who prefer the Black Album over KEA too.

But i prefer the latter over anything they did after TBA.
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1929 on: April 19, 2016, 05:07:20 PM »
Not sure if this is controversial, but speaking of The Four Horsemen: TFH >>>>> Mechanix.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1930 on: April 19, 2016, 05:08:20 PM »
The Machanix is shit.

The lyrics are hilariously bad.

Offline 425

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1931 on: April 19, 2016, 05:09:58 PM »
Agreed completely. The Four Horsemen has good lyrics; Mechanix has silly lyrics. The Four Horsemen is played at a solid mid-tempo; the Dave Mustaine of the 1980s treated Mechanix like a race that he had to run faster than Metallica.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1932 on: April 19, 2016, 05:24:05 PM »
I assume because it has a good amount of classic songs.

Seek and Destroy
The Four Horsemen
Whiplash

And to a lesser extent
Motorbreath
Jump in the Fire
No Remorse

That's at least three classic songs and often live staples.

And that's fair enough, but I think most of those songs fall short of a majority of the songs on The Black Album and the better half of the songs on Load. I think The Four Horsemen is the only song on KEA that would compete with my top three or four on The Black Album, and it would not compete with my top three or four on Load (I like The Black Album better than Load, but I like my favorites on Load more than my favorites on The Black Album—I think Load could have been a really good 60 minute album and instead it's a pretty good 80 minute album).

That's cool. Preferences and all. I was just answering why most fans throw KEA into the bin of classics.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1933 on: April 19, 2016, 05:42:12 PM »
Watching that record store performance now.

Man, it's nice to hear the bass so clearly.

Man, Kirk is awful.
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Offline Zook

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1934 on: April 19, 2016, 05:45:59 PM »
Yeah. I thought Lars was decent, James was very good, Kirk was shite and Robert was good as always.

Lars got better and Kirk got worse. His solos sound like my brother recording a solo for KrotchRaut.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1935 on: April 19, 2016, 05:46:23 PM »
Kirk sucks balls.


Also his guitar playing is lousy.


And yes - Lars has been practicing.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 03:39:43 PM by Kotowboy »

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1936 on: April 19, 2016, 05:59:36 PM »
The Four Horsemen's fixed lyrics prove the Metallica made the right decision in getting rid of Dave Mustaine.
People figured out that the white thing that comes out of cows' titties could be drunk, and the relation between sweet desires and women's bellies growing up for 9 months. It can't be THAT hard to figure out how a trumpet works.”

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Offline 425

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1937 on: April 19, 2016, 06:25:24 PM »
For more reasons than that, Metallica was right to get rid of Dave Mustaine. He was a mess at that time and was definitely more of a liability than an asset. Fortunately he got himself somewhat together and we ended up getting good material from two bands instead of one.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1938 on: April 28, 2016, 03:54:57 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iVOnNmVItc

Ride the Lightning from Record Store Day. Lars is SOLID. He's clearly doing *something* right.


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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1939 on: April 28, 2016, 04:06:41 AM »
I still haven't gotten around to watching that full performance, so I'll have to go through the rest on that channel.
That song sounded really good. Lars kept the tempo in check, and even though his fills were still a bit sloppy, he didn't lose the rhythm in the process like usual, and was doing a much better job overall. Kirk still sucked, but the rest of the band was tight. That would have been such a great show to see in person.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1940 on: April 28, 2016, 04:12:34 AM »
I remember watching a show in 2006 - the first show they played Master Of Puppets in full in Germany I think...It was a live webcast.

I was watching with two other people and we kept commenting how much Lars had slipped since the late 90s like he would do a fill at the end of almost every single bar and lose tempo and all this.

The band as a whole in 2004 were embarrassing. Tempo all over the shop - sloppy playing, James had no grit in his voice whatsoever.

They've been getting steadily better since then apart from Kirk unfortunately.

Lars is definitely better at drums now than Kirk is at guitar solos. Lars maybe messes up a few times per show but it's mostly tempo things but Kirk can no longer nail a single solo. . .




....oh and the double bass part in that Ride The Lightning video was spot on.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1941 on: April 28, 2016, 04:19:56 AM »
The double bass didn't sound perfect, but it didn't fall apart like I was expecting. You could see Lars was giving it his all there. They've definitely improved since around DM, except Kirk. I don't think he knows any scales or understands rhythm.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1942 on: April 28, 2016, 04:34:51 AM »
If it's an injury or arthritis that's stopping him from playing then that's a bummer.

Maybe he should try lighter strings or something.

Usually a 16 bar or more double bass part like that - Lars would slow down considerably towards the end or just not do the double bass for the last 8 or so bars.

He seems to have more stamina these days. Wonder what he's doing. Hopefully not cocaine again :lol

Maybe he gets injected with adrenaline before he hits the stage.


He said recently he's started practicing again - just playing along to music on his headphones. Whatever it is - keep it up !!!

Offline Luoto

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1943 on: April 28, 2016, 04:50:32 AM »
They've definitely improved since around DM, except Kirk. I don't think he knows any scales or understands rhythm.

Kirk actually got lessons from Joe Satriani back in the day, so I bet he's somewhat educated in that regard, opposed to James. I remember James asking Kirk to show him a chord placement on the neck in a Youtube video. Cliff used to be the most educated in music theory and taught the band harmony stuff.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1944 on: April 28, 2016, 07:24:29 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iVOnNmVItc

Ride the Lightning from Record Store Day. Lars is SOLID. He's clearly doing *something* right.

Lars did sound pretty good there. James sounds great vocally which is always encouraging to hear! RtL is not an easy vocal song for him but his pitch was good, the Het-grit was there, the power was good, etc...

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1945 on: April 28, 2016, 09:19:38 AM »
A few years ago - Lars wouldn't commit to drum fills at all. He'd play them really gently then just come in with a double snare hit on the downbeat so if he went out of time - it wouldn't be very audible

and he'd come back in at the right moment. Also if he made a timing error - he'd over compensate by doing a big long drum fill after it.

He's much better now.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1946 on: April 28, 2016, 09:38:52 AM »
I assume because it has a good amount of classic songs.

Seek and Destroy
The Four Horsemen
Whiplash

And to a lesser extent
Motorbreath
Jump in the Fire
No Remorse

That's at least three classic songs and often live staples.

And that's fair enough, but I think most of those songs fall short of a majority of the songs on The Black Album and the better half of the songs on Load. I think The Four Horsemen is the only song on KEA that would compete with my top three or four on The Black Album, and it would not compete with my top three or four on Load (I like The Black Album better than Load, but I like my favorites on Load more than my favorites on The Black Album—I think Load could have been a really good 60 minute album and instead it's a pretty good 80 minute album).

That's cool. Preferences and all. I was just answering why most fans throw KEA into the bin of classics.

A lot of fans think it's their best.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1947 on: April 28, 2016, 10:43:17 AM »
Not by a long way. The bass solo track alone removes it from that category.


Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1948 on: April 28, 2016, 04:57:11 PM »
Ha. Just watched Hit The Lights from Record Store Day.. Kirk completely messes up and comes in at the wrong time.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1949 on: April 29, 2016, 06:20:42 AM »
Not by a long way. The bass solo track alone removes it from that category.

GASP!!!!

I remember in 1984/85 when we were all just discovering it, that track was considered to be the bass equivalent of "Eruption"!!!  I know **SO MANY** guys who put down their guitar and picked up a bass just because of Anesthesia!!!
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1950 on: April 29, 2016, 06:37:20 AM »
But Eruption opened up a whole new world of guitar playing, Anesthesia not so much. Cliff Burton was good but he was no EVH on bass.

Outside of Jazz and Level 42 bass solos were unheard of, and I think most of the early fascination with Anesthesia comes from this. As a musical piece it lacks severely imo.
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Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1951 on: April 30, 2016, 12:04:22 PM »
Only in music discussion areas as finnicky as DTF will you hear anything negative about it. That solo is universally revered in my own real life experiences talking to metal fans.
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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1952 on: April 30, 2016, 12:17:18 PM »
Only in music discussion areas as finnicky as DTF will you hear anything negative about it. That solo is universally revered in my own real life experiences talking to metal fans.
Agreed. Cliff really brought in a new level of bass playing and composition to metal back then. It's easy to look back these days and say: 'meh...it isn't that good', but to understand something in all ways possible one needs to look back to when that was created.

Also, I don't think that the purpose of Anesthesia was ever being a well formed 'musical piece'. If you want that, you can always put Orion.
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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1953 on: April 30, 2016, 07:11:54 PM »
Yeah, I'm down with all of that. Honestly, I don't think any of Kill 'em All focused on having entire pieces being written as competent, respected musical pieces. I think they just wanted to make awesome, visceral music that got metal dicks hard and, because Cliff and James were such good writers in the first place, the album came off as a very polished debut given the era, their budget, the relative infancy of its genre, and how early in the band's career it was.

RTL is where you can see the beginning of James' grand vision coming along as it was heavily guided (I assume) by Cliff's melodic mastery. The opening track's intro is a humongous middle finger to metal purism, RTL's solo section is a perfect example of excess in the name of overly ambitious grandiosity (I still like it but modern day folks whom seem to consider themselves experts sure aren't shy about knocking it), Fade is a gem for the ages and a crowning achievement in 80s Metallica's ability to use dynamics to their seeming fullest potential, Creeping Death showed they could have a steamrolling ass kicker that had sophisticated structure and deft flow, and Ktulu does great justice to H.P. Lovecraft's short story without having a single lyric.

Longwinded as the previous paragraph is, I typed it out to point out how RTL seems to have an intentional emphasis on quality writing and composition whereas KEA is just a very enjoyable and well-executed debut without such endeavors so it's pointless to knock Anesthesia for not being a proper song when virtually every popular band has made a short song, instrumental or not, that falls outside of how the average fan would classify the majority of that band's discography.
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1954 on: April 30, 2016, 08:23:16 PM »
I've defended (Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth on these forums on many occasions. It's actually a well composed piece for being mostly improvised. There is a certain progressive aspect to it where the listener (at least me anyway) can hear melodic ideas passing by. You have the slow first section, which shows Cliff's sense of melody and his theory training, using various chord changes and time changes while still maintaining musical flow. Then comes the fast middle section, which shows Cliff's technical ability, using techniques that most bassists simply don't use. Cliff knew his way around the fretboard better than any bassist in metal at the time and could play circles around quite a few metal guitarists including the lead player in the very band he was a part of and he showed off his immense ability in the middle section of the solo. The last part shows Cliff's experimental side, using fingernail scrapes and hitting the strings into the pickups to make a wall of noise that keeps building until it segues into Whiplash. He shows off all three sides of his playing in one piece that's pretty brilliant when you sit back and analyze it. He was a master and this is his crowning achievement.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1955 on: April 30, 2016, 10:46:57 PM »
Only in music discussion areas as finnicky as DTF will you hear anything negative about it. That solo is universally revered in my own real life experiences talking to metal fans.

Only on DTF have I ever heard anything positive about it. Completely breaks the awesome flow of the album too.
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Offline dparrott

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1956 on: May 02, 2016, 08:36:21 AM »
I've defended (Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth on these forums on many occasions. It's actually a well composed piece for being mostly improvised. There is a certain progressive aspect to it where the listener (at least me anyway) can hear melodic ideas passing by. You have the slow first section, which shows Cliff's sense of melody and his theory training, using various chord changes and time changes while still maintaining musical flow. Then comes the fast middle section, which shows Cliff's technical ability, using techniques that most bassists simply don't use. Cliff knew his way around the fretboard better than any bassist in metal at the time and could play circles around quite a few metal guitarists including the lead player in the very band he was a part of and he showed off his immense ability in the middle section of the solo. The last part shows Cliff's experimental side, using fingernail scrapes and hitting the strings into the pickups to make a wall of noise that keeps building until it segues into Whiplash. He shows off all three sides of his playing in one piece that's pretty brilliant when you sit back and analyze it. He was a master and this is his crowning achievement.
That is....literally...the best description I have ever seen of that song.
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Offline Train of Naught

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1957 on: May 02, 2016, 08:40:43 AM »
Pulling Teeth is amazing, at least better than half the stuff on the album IMO, agreed with basically everything the count said.
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Offline Tomislav95

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1958 on: May 02, 2016, 09:25:51 AM »
Pulling Teeth is amazing, at least better than half the stuff on the album IMO, agreed with basically everything the count said.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #1959 on: May 02, 2016, 10:35:20 AM »
Pulling Teeth is amazing, at least better than half the stuff on the album IMO.
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