Author Topic: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded  (Read 130301 times)

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Offline Adami

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #140 on: July 28, 2013, 07:35:23 AM »
Regarding production for Death Magnetic, I have a few issues that go beyond the clipping etc.

1) Lars' tom heads are coated, and really don't sound great.
2) They need to trigger his kick drums. Lars doesn't have the ability to play fast double bass as intensely as he does when he's doing accent kicks. So what you get is really quiet double bass, and then very loud accented bass. This is even more noticeable on St. Anger.
3) Rob's Bass tone is lacking muscle. It's not bad by itself, but I think the best bass tone they had was Jason's from the Black Album - Reload days. It had muscle, thickness and warmth.
4) The complete lack of vocal harmonies. I honestly don't understand the motivation behind that one at all.
5) Kirk's solos. Oh Kirk. He needs someone to really push him very VERY hard on his solos. Wah or no wah, you obviously can't just say "do whatever you want" because it will sound horrible. I remember seeing how hard he was pushed on the solo from The Unforgiven, and how well that turned out. He needs someone to guide him.
6) Lars needs a Ride cymbal again. I don't think I have to explain that.

Now, I had a lot of problems with the song writing on DM, but strictly production wise, those were my issues that go beyond the mere clipping of it all.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #141 on: July 28, 2013, 07:47:01 AM »
I'd love it to have more reverb. I hate dry mixes (ADTOE is far too dry for me too).
Kotowboy- My version of the GH3 DM is early (D34DL1N3R). I haven't heard those ones, but you may want to remove that link for obvious reasons.

Adami - Hugely agree on 2, 4, 5, and 6. The kick drum is weak as piss and inconsistent in volume when he tries to play fast. The lack of vocal harmonies makes it sound too raw and incomplete (especially being a melodic rock fan where I'm used to much more layering). Kirk's solos are all absolutely embarrassingly dreadful (no exaggeration), and a ride cymbal is just a no brainer.
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Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #142 on: July 28, 2013, 08:02:12 AM »
I love the DM solo's...  :-\

I don't get you guys.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #143 on: July 28, 2013, 08:03:42 AM »
The best solos on Death Magnetic are James' solos. No surprise there.

The melodic solo and first half of the big Suicide & Redemption solo where it's really interesting. You can tell the instant Kirk comes in as it goes WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

:lol

Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #144 on: July 28, 2013, 08:06:16 AM »
The best solos on Death Magnetic are James' solos. No surprise there.

The melodic solo and first half of the big Suicide & Redemption solo where it's really interesting. You can tell the instant Kirk comes in as it goes WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

:lol

I love that part...

Is there somewhere that clarifies who's doing what solo?

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #145 on: July 28, 2013, 08:10:16 AM »
As a general rule - if it has Wah on - it's Kirk.

But i'm not sure exactly.

Pretty sure Kirk did all the solos apart from S&R and the dual guitar harmonies.

Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #146 on: July 28, 2013, 08:32:37 AM »
What's bad about wah anyway?

I always thought it was a nice way to stand out.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #147 on: July 28, 2013, 08:39:39 AM »
What's bad about wah anyway?

I always thought it was a nice way to stand out.

Wah is cool, but it doesn't stand out when you use it for every single solo, and he doesn't really use it well at all. He just rocks it back and forth instead of using it to add real expression or style with a sense of timing.
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Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #148 on: July 28, 2013, 08:48:30 AM »
..................I think you guys just like to find things about Metallica to bitch about.


Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2013, 08:55:53 AM »
Discussing the quality of Kirk Hammett's recent solos is far from nitpicking. His solos on DM are honestly garbage, and none of them are good enough to have made the album.

And I like the majority of his stuff even up until Load/Reload, but since then, he's just been fudging it with a wah pedal, and hoping he's playing fast enough that nobody notices his lack of timing or scale.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #150 on: July 28, 2013, 09:23:30 AM »
Discussing kirks solos or death magnetics poor audio or even Lars' lack of practice is far from nitpicking.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #151 on: July 28, 2013, 09:28:31 AM »
I do some basic masters on my own music and even I know that you can't do much

If the original audio is too loud. It's just gonna distort or be too harsh or

You will have pumping issues. I wonder what, if anything Ted Jensen actually

Did to the final mix. :)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #152 on: July 28, 2013, 09:45:34 AM »
Even if they remix ...AJFA, Ulrich's bass drum will still have that annoying clicking sound.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #153 on: July 28, 2013, 12:23:49 PM »
Unless they do audio replace with a nice fat bass drum form the Black Album :P

Offline TAC

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #154 on: July 31, 2013, 07:26:24 AM »
Just purchased the 6/8/13 Detroit show where they played Kill 'Em All in its entirety. :metal
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #155 on: July 31, 2013, 02:20:13 PM »
Regarding production for Death Magnetic, I have a few issues that go beyond the clipping etc.

1) Lars' tom heads are coated, and really don't sound great.
2) They need to trigger his kick drums. Lars doesn't have the ability to play fast double bass as intensely as he does when he's doing accent kicks. So what you get is really quiet double bass, and then very loud accented bass. This is even more noticeable on St. Anger.
3) Rob's Bass tone is lacking muscle. It's not bad by itself, but I think the best bass tone they had was Jason's from the Black Album - Reload days. It had muscle, thickness and warmth.
4) The complete lack of vocal harmonies. I honestly don't understand the motivation behind that one at all.
5) Kirk's solos. Oh Kirk. He needs someone to really push him very VERY hard on his solos. Wah or no wah, you obviously can't just say "do whatever you want" because it will sound horrible. I remember seeing how hard he was pushed on the solo from The Unforgiven, and how well that turned out. He needs someone to guide him.
6) Lars needs a Ride cymbal again. I don't think I have to explain that.

Now, I had a lot of problems with the song writing on DM, but strictly production wise, those were my issues that go beyond the mere clipping of it all.

I agree with everything you mentioned, but the vocal harmony thing stood out to me a lot as well as the lack of reverb on the vocal tracks.  They sound so dry that I almost feel bad for James a little.  The dude is getting older, has a TON of miles on his voice, so help him out a little by adding some reverb and some layering to his tracks in the studio! 

The vocals on The Black Album sounded good because yes, James was arguably in his vocal prime, but also because the production of that record made his voice sound huge!

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #156 on: July 31, 2013, 03:48:21 PM »
So it seems that 2014 will be spent *solely* on the new album according to virtually everyone in Metallica land.

Lars said " 2014 is new album - you'll hear it in 18 months or so ".

Kirk said that after the movie is out - they wanna focus on nothing else but a new album.

Manager Peter Mensch has said that they have to deliver an album in 2014.

So it's finally on the way.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #157 on: August 01, 2013, 12:15:59 PM »
So it seems that 2014 will be spent *solely* on the new album according to virtually everyone in Metallica land.

Lars said " 2014 is new album - you'll hear it in 18 months or so ".

Kirk said that after the movie is out - they wanna focus on nothing else but a new album.

Manager Peter Mensch has said that they have to deliver an album in 2014.

So it's finally on the way.

Wow thats good news I guess, still a little skeptical... But hopefully it ends up being true!

Offline Onno

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #158 on: August 01, 2013, 12:19:05 PM »
I hope it's true too. And I hope it'll be a good album.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #159 on: August 01, 2013, 12:33:38 PM »
I hope it's true too. And I hope it'll be a good album.

That's what makes me worried :-\

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #160 on: August 01, 2013, 12:36:00 PM »
I hope it's true too. And I hope it'll be a good album.

That's what makes me worried :-\

Haha yeah that's true, delivering the album is a very small part of the battle, the album actually being good is a whole different thing!

Offline 73109

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #161 on: August 01, 2013, 12:42:51 PM »
Speaking as someone whose first favorite band ever was Metallica and loved them with all of his heart for years in spite of all the jabs thrown at them, the album will probably suck. The dudes are washed up creatively. DM was an attempt to please fans after the shitstorm that was St. Anger. Before the album came out, they said that it fit would fit in a timeline between Justice and TBA, and it sounded like they were just trying to play fast, have crazy solos and be metal again. Bad idea. Bands are allowed to change sounds overtime, and Metallica shouldn't have tried to rehash their old days when they aren't in their 20s anymore. Load is arguably my favorite album by them and ReLoad has a number of good-great songs on it. My guess is that this album will be another shitty mixed and recorded attempt at Justice or Puppets or whatever. If they came out and said "This will be Re-re-load" I would be infinitely more excited. James is at the point where he can't really do metal, but he still has some singing chops. Kirk's muddled waway solos are fucking old and they are missing the bluesy punch that made them great even back when they weren't playing pseudo-bluesy hard rock. I'm just going on and on and on and I know a lot of you will probably disagree with me. 'Tis what it is. In truth, after loving Metallica with all my heart, I'll probably download the album, listen to it once or twice, and chuck it, and that honestly makes me really sad.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #162 on: August 01, 2013, 12:44:53 PM »
:clap:

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #163 on: August 01, 2013, 01:18:26 PM »
They can't top Death Magnetic. They had lots of pressure into releasing a good album after St. Anger, and they wanted to swallow the whole world and scream "Hey! Metallica's back!". They were kinda successful, their world tour supporting Death Magnetic was great and fans became invested in the band once again. Now, this was 5 years ago. The weak flame that was again burning in the hearts of Metallica fans now was completely extinguished, given momentum by Lars Ulrich's horrible drumming, Kirk's mediocre soloing and Hetfield's fading voice. All that remains is nostalgia and memory. The Memory Remains olol.

True, they're grown ups now. Happily married men with families, and nowadays Hetfield instead of insulting the audience and throwing f-bombs anywhere he could now addresses the audience as the Metallica family, "you love Metallica, and Metallica loves you", the power of the heart, among other heartfelt things. Truth is that, I enjoyed Metallica more when they were aggressive as fuck, which really translated into powerful live performances. I'm happy for the guys, and I'm grateful they still have plans of making new music and sticking around for a while and playing concerts, but I did enjoy more the fury-driven band that changed my perspective of metal. Metallica should record this album, get out all what's left of their creative minds, and start waving their good-byes.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #164 on: August 01, 2013, 01:22:51 PM »
This absolutely has to be their last album.

But I do think Lars and James have stepped up in recent years and if they bring that to the new album it could be decent.

They just need a producer who will push them for excellence and not clip the shit out of it.

If they went with the crew that made In Waves - that would sound fantastic.

[ Metallica manager Peter Mensch also hinted that Rick Ruin would not return as " He distorts all his albums and we [ Q Prime ] don't like that..." ]

Offline Onno

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #165 on: August 01, 2013, 01:26:12 PM »
This absolutely has to be their last album.

But I do think Lars and James have stepped up in recent years and if they bring that to the new album it could be decent.

They just need a producer who will push them for excellence and not clip the shit out of it.

If they went with the crew that made In Waves - that would sound fantastic.

[ Metallica manager Peter Mensch also hinted that Rick Ruin would not return as " He distorts all his albums and we [ Q Prime ] don't like that..." ]
:biggrin:

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #166 on: August 01, 2013, 01:30:18 PM »
:biggrin: ?

Y U Do Dis ?

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #167 on: August 01, 2013, 01:47:22 PM »
True, they're grown ups now. Happily married men with families, and nowadays Hetfield instead of insulting the audience and throwing f-bombs anywhere he could now addresses the audience as the Metallica family, "you love Metallica, and Metallica loves you", the power of the heart, among other heartfelt things. Truth is that, I enjoyed Metallica more when they were aggressive as fuck, which really translated into powerful live performances.

Totally agree.  Watching old Metallica footage from the Moscow 91 show or the Seattle 89 show, when Metallica was at, what I would consider their live performance peak, these guys were incredible.  Especially Hetfield, his intensity, his power stance, just his overall presence was fantastic.

I remember reading an interview with I think Bob Rock discussing the Load and Reload sessions.  At one point the question arose whether Hetfield still had lyrics in him or if he had hit some sort of creative wall.  Bob Rock had confronted James about it back then and James' response was something along the lines of "I've got plenty of hate left in me."  Hate always seemed to fuel the creative juices of this band, particularly Hetfield from a lyrical point of view.  I guess we will find out what he and the other guys still have left in the tank.

Offline Onno

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #168 on: August 01, 2013, 03:36:33 PM »
:biggrin: ?

Y U Do Dis ?
Check the bolded part  ;)

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #169 on: August 01, 2013, 05:10:14 PM »
Ah. :P

Offline pain of occupation

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #170 on: August 01, 2013, 05:35:14 PM »
Speaking as someone whose first favorite band ever was Metallica and loved them with all of his heart for years in spite of all the jabs thrown at them, the album will probably suck. The dudes are washed up creatively. DM was an attempt to please fans after the shitstorm that was St. Anger. Before the album came out, they said that it fit would fit in a timeline between Justice and TBA, and it sounded like they were just trying to play fast, have crazy solos and be metal again. Bad idea. Bands are allowed to change sounds overtime, and Metallica shouldn't have tried to rehash their old days when they aren't in their 20s anymore. Load is arguably my favorite album by them and ReLoad has a number of good-great songs on it. My guess is that this album will be another shitty mixed and recorded attempt at Justice or Puppets or whatever. If they came out and said "This will be Re-re-load" I would be infinitely more excited. James is at the point where he can't really do metal, but he still has some singing chops. Kirk's muddled waway solos are fucking old and they are missing the bluesy punch that made them great even back when they weren't playing pseudo-bluesy hard rock. I'm just going on and on and on and I know a lot of you will probably disagree with me. 'Tis what it is. In truth, after loving Metallica with all my heart, I'll probably download the album, listen to it once or twice, and chuck it, and that honestly makes me really sad.

my history-with and view-of the band are pretty much identical...'cept i cant say nothing about death magnetic as i havent been willing to spin tallitunes since '06, and i wont be listening to anything new even once or twice.

Offline Nel

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #171 on: August 01, 2013, 07:14:18 PM »
Eh, I don't care. Death Magnetic's my favorite Metallica album (I'm not joking, the first five albums are 50% listenable each and the Load albums are awful) so I'm already satisfied and I'll take whatever at this point.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #172 on: August 01, 2013, 08:07:31 PM »
Eh, I don't care. Death Magnetic's my favorite Metallica album (I'm not joking, the first five albums are 50% listenable each and the Load albums are awful) so I'm already satisfied and I'll take whatever at this point.

I will never feel like my Metallica opinions are weird ever again. 
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #173 on: August 01, 2013, 08:23:58 PM »
Eh, I don't care. Death Magnetic's my favorite Metallica album (I'm not joking, the first five albums are 50% listenable each and the Load albums are awful) so I'm already satisfied and I'll take whatever at this point.

I will never feel like my Metallica opinions are weird ever again. 

:lol

I'd be very disappointed if this next album just ends up being DM2, because they really need a different approach, and it needs to be better. And having remotely listenable production would be a plus too.
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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #174 on: August 01, 2013, 10:40:45 PM »
If we get good solos and nothing hillbillyish ala the loads, I'll be a happy camper.
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