Author Topic: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded  (Read 139061 times)

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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #105 on: July 23, 2013, 01:05:44 AM »
Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Pantera killing the glam metal movement is one of my favorite parts in music history  :metal
Wait....what? All those bands existed during the 80s. You should take a listen to Panteras first release. The glam scene basically dried out in the early 90s and it was pretty easy for the grunge scene to kill it last breath but they basically also in the process strangeld the metal scene to become an underground movement which of course as you say helped build a new generation of metal acts. There are/will of course always be exceptions to the rule.
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Offline Ruba

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #106 on: July 23, 2013, 02:15:19 PM »
Have they really only made 9 albums? I over 30 years?? That sucks!!

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Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2013, 05:51:55 PM »
Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Pantera killing the glam metal movement is one of my favorite parts in music history  :metal
Uh, yeah. Thrash and glam existed in the same time period. Like it or not, glam was always more popular. Thrash was always the underground scene. And Pantera was a glam band through and through during the heyday of the big 4, so I have no idea where you got this idea from.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?
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Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #108 on: July 23, 2013, 06:20:48 PM »
Have they really only made 9 albums? I over 30 years?? That sucks!!

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Offline FourthHorseman

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #109 on: July 24, 2013, 01:05:13 AM »
Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Pantera killing the glam metal movement is one of my favorite parts in music history  :metal
Uh, yeah. Thrash and glam existed in the same time period. Like it or not, glam was always more popular. Thrash was always the underground scene. And Pantera was a glam band through and through during the heyday of the big 4, so I have no idea where you got this idea from.

By the time Master of Puppets and AJFA thrash was far more than "underground" and although it is obvious that grunge had a lot to do with the decline in popularity of glam/hair metal, I argue that thrash metal played a part. I know several people who were huge glam metal fans but started to like thrash/groove/death metal as the sub-genres became more relevant.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #110 on: July 24, 2013, 09:25:15 AM »
Metallica is still one of my favorite bands and always will be one my favorite bands. I listened to MOP and AJFA yesterday and yeah, the magic is still there. I can't imagine myself getting tired of listening to Orion, what a friggin' nice song.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #111 on: July 24, 2013, 04:48:37 PM »
Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Pantera killing the glam metal movement is one of my favorite parts in music history  :metal
Uh, yeah. Thrash and glam existed in the same time period. Like it or not, glam was always more popular. Thrash was always the underground scene. And Pantera was a glam band through and through during the heyday of the big 4, so I have no idea where you got this idea from.

By the time Master of Puppets and AJFA thrash was far more than "underground" and although it is obvious that grunge had a lot to do with the decline in popularity of glam/hair metal, I argue that thrash metal played a part. I know several people who were huge glam metal fans but started to like thrash/groove/death metal as the sub-genres became more relevant.

Thrash was the pushback against glam from the start.    Both trends were getting started in the early 80's....but as the heroes of the 70's (Judas Priest with Turbo, Ozzy with The Ultimate Sin, Iron Maiden withe SiT, Whitesnake with S/T...etc) began to follow the more commercial trend that glam offered through the mid-80s, more and more of the hard core fans began to jump ship and investigate thrash more. 
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #112 on: July 24, 2013, 10:00:17 PM »
Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Pantera killing the glam metal movement is one of my favorite parts in music history  :metal
Uh, yeah. Thrash and glam existed in the same time period. Like it or not, glam was always more popular. Thrash was always the underground scene. And Pantera was a glam band through and through during the heyday of the big 4, so I have no idea where you got this idea from.

By the time Master of Puppets and AJFA thrash was far more than "underground" and although it is obvious that grunge had a lot to do with the decline in popularity of glam/hair metal, I argue that thrash metal played a part. I know several people who were huge glam metal fans but started to like thrash/groove/death metal as the sub-genres became more relevant.

Thrash was the pushback against glam from the start.    Both trends were getting started in the early 80's....but as the heroes of the 70's (Judas Priest with Turbo, Ozzy with The Ultimate Sin, Iron Maiden withe SiT, Whitesnake with S/T...etc) began to follow the more commercial trend that glam offered through the mid-80s, more and more of the hard core fans began to jump ship and investigate thrash more. 

Whitesnake's S/T is by far their most popular / well known album to this day, and they only did one album after that before they stopped and grunge set in. Ozzy Osbourne remained popular throughout the '80s, with all of those albums going multi-platinum.
I don't see any correlation between glam and thrash, or any real evidence that people were jumping from glam to thrash. They're entirely different genres. The only trend I see is grunge becoming popular, which had an impact on most rock/metal, including glam and thrash.

Sometimes I wonder if DTF is using bizarro-wikipedia or something.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #113 on: July 25, 2013, 12:21:28 AM »
Or Uncyclopedia.


Their article on Alliteration  has to be seen :lol

Every single word in the entire article begins with the letter A. :lol

Outstanding. http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Alliteration

Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #114 on: July 25, 2013, 04:27:52 AM »
Yeah, I don't understand this thrash/glam discussion at all. Sure, the bands probably weren't fans of each other, but neither side ever "killed" the other side. Grunge killed them both at the same time.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #115 on: July 25, 2013, 05:56:04 AM »
Looks like Metallica's next album will be called "Revisionist History"?

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #116 on: July 25, 2013, 06:50:53 AM »
Yeah, I don't understand this thrash/glam discussion at all. Sure, the bands probably weren't fans of each other, but neither side ever "killed" the other side. Grunge killed them both at the same time.
Thrash bands seemed to have a much higher rate of survival than glam bands though.

And glam killed itself, too many bands, too much over-saturation for too long a time, grunge just gave it that final, little push to send it careening down the stairs.

Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #117 on: July 25, 2013, 07:15:17 AM »
The record labels and MTV killed glam.

Fixed that one there.

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #118 on: July 25, 2013, 04:17:51 PM »
Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Pantera killing the glam metal movement is one of my favorite parts in music history  :metal
Uh, yeah. Thrash and glam existed in the same time period. Like it or not, glam was always more popular. Thrash was always the underground scene. And Pantera was a glam band through and through during the heyday of the big 4, so I have no idea where you got this idea from.

By the time Master of Puppets and AJFA thrash was far more than "underground" and although it is obvious that grunge had a lot to do with the decline in popularity of glam/hair metal, I argue that thrash metal played a part. I know several people who were huge glam metal fans but started to like thrash/groove/death metal as the sub-genres became more relevant.

Thrash was the pushback against glam from the start.    Both trends were getting started in the early 80's....but as the heroes of the 70's (Judas Priest with Turbo, Ozzy with The Ultimate Sin, Iron Maiden withe SiT, Whitesnake with S/T...etc) began to follow the more commercial trend that glam offered through the mid-80s, more and more of the hard core fans began to jump ship and investigate thrash more. 

Whitesnake's S/T is by far their most popular / well known album to this day, and they only did one album after that before they stopped and grunge set in. Ozzy Osbourne remained popular throughout the '80s, with all of those albums going multi-platinum.
I don't see any correlation between glam and thrash, or any real evidence that people were jumping from glam to thrash. They're entirely different genres. The only trend I see is grunge becoming popular, which had an impact on most rock/metal, including glam and thrash.

Sometimes I wonder if DTF is using bizarro-wikipedia or something.

I was just part of the crowd, at the concerts, listening to fans, talking to people....hearing them talk about how pissed they were that the bands they loved just a few years ago had "pussed out" on them.    Many of the people I talked to were between the ages of 14 and 18...and were expressing a feeling of betrayal. 

I wasn't following sales...I was in the audience, listening to the bands, and my peers. 
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Offline Jaq

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #119 on: July 25, 2013, 05:41:14 PM »
Okay boys and girls, sit down. Let Uncle Jaq tell you a story.

No, not one of those, Kev, hush.

See, it's like this.

The notion that the 80s was all "scenes" and people abandoned subgenre x for the purity of subgenre y? Is totally an invention of the post-80s explosion of subgenres. Oh, sure, you had elitists back then that insisted that certain bands were better, or more "true", or more whatever, but in the 80s? We were heavy metal fans. The stark delineations of "glam" and "thrash" and all that which people insist was a thing? Didn't happen. You could have in your collection Poison's Look What The Cat Dragged In, the first Vinnie Vincent Invasion album, Diamond Head's Lightning to the Nations, Master of Puppets, and Quiet Riot's Metal Health, and people wouldn't even bat an eye at you.

I know, because I owned every one of those albums.

Yeah, back then you had people who liked a band and thought people who liked other bands were poseurs and wimps and whatnot. That's never going to change. But back in 1987, every metal head I knew-every fucking one of them-liked Whitesnake's self titled, and not just for the videos. The war between thrash and glam was largely created after the fact by a few journalists and guys in bands trying to overstate the importance of their legacies. Truth was, in the actual world of metal, you could and did like both Slayer and Ratt.

Thrash had nothing to do with killing glam metal, for what it's worth. For one thing, the number of thrash bands with legitimate, chart topping success could be counted on your fingers. The reason why the Big Four was the Big Four? They were successful. For another, the supposed death of glam by grunge was simply record labels finally finding something else to move on to. Glam as a commercial force largely was spent by 1990, with only a few bands having the success of the bands in the mid-80s. Grunge finally gave them an excuse to jettison the dozens of big hair metallers that hadn't been making them money. The writing was on the wall for Glam by 1990, it just took the labels two years to see it.

Trust me, guys. I was there. Anyone who was there and says different is a minority. Metal really was different back then. And oddly enough, far more open minded.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #120 on: July 25, 2013, 05:51:54 PM »
Okay boys and girls, sit down. Let Uncle Jaq tell you a story.

No, not one of those, Kev, hush.

See, it's like this.

The notion that the 80s was all "scenes" and people abandoned subgenre x for the purity of subgenre y? Is totally an invention of the post-80s explosion of subgenres. Oh, sure, you had elitists back then that insisted that certain bands were better, or more "true", or more whatever, but in the 80s? We were heavy metal fans. The stark delineations of "glam" and "thrash" and all that which people insist was a thing? Didn't happen. You could have in your collection Poison's Look What The Cat Dragged In, the first Vinnie Vincent Invasion album, Diamond Head's Lightning to the Nations, Master of Puppets, and Quiet Riot's Metal Health, and people wouldn't even bat an eye at you.

I know, because I owned every one of those albums.

Yeah, back then you had people who liked a band and thought people who liked other bands were poseurs and wimps and whatnot. That's never going to change. But back in 1987, every metal head I knew-every fucking one of them-liked Whitesnake's self titled, and not just for the videos. The war between thrash and glam was largely created after the fact by a few journalists and guys in bands trying to overstate the importance of their legacies. Truth was, in the actual world of metal, you could and did like both Slayer and Ratt.

Thrash had nothing to do with killing glam metal, for what it's worth. For one thing, the number of thrash bands with legitimate, chart topping success could be counted on your fingers. The reason why the Big Four was the Big Four? They were successful. For another, the supposed death of glam by grunge was simply record labels finally finding something else to move on to. Glam as a commercial force largely was spent by 1990, with only a few bands having the success of the bands in the mid-80s. Grunge finally gave them an excuse to jettison the dozens of big hair metallers that hadn't been making them money. The writing was on the wall for Glam by 1990, it just took the labels two years to see it.

Trust me, guys. I was there. Anyone who was there and says different is a minority. Metal really was different back then. And oddly enough, far more open minded.

I'm not worked up...I'm just stating what I lived through from 1983-1988.  (I was born in late '69...so I'm talking about the time in my life from 13-18).   I knew guys who were actively *pissed* at Iron Maiden for introducing synths on SiT.     This isn't something I invented in retrospect...I'm talking about my memories *of that time*. 

Heck, I remember being at a Celtic Frost show, and many people there were talking about how Metallica was *already* selling out with Puppets....I disagreed...but the fans who felt that way were out there. 

I didn't like IM introducing synths at first...but SSoaSS was amazing...and I couldn't find ANYONE to agree with me.   Why?  Everyone was still pissed about the synths. 

I knew people who loved "glam" and a few people who loved "thrash"...I personally didn't see a lot of line crossing...but there were a few exceptions. 
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Offline adace

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2013, 06:09:57 PM »
So today is the 30th anniversary of the release of Kill Em All :metal

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2013, 06:16:13 PM »
Looks like Metallica's next album will be called "Revisionist History"?


That's why they're Stalin :neverusethis:

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #123 on: July 26, 2013, 07:50:23 PM »
The band's manager Peter Mensch did an AMA.

A couple of titbits :

1.) He says the band are not allowed to tour next year and have to deliver a new album.

2.) He says he and Cliff Bernstein aren't fans of the loudness wars and states " certain people habitually brickwall their albums. We don't like that. "

Could this be a clue that Rick Rubin is NOT set to produce Metallica 10 ?

Anyway - a couple of interesting and promising little vignettes.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #124 on: July 26, 2013, 07:56:58 PM »
The band's manager Peter Mensch did an AMA.

A couple of titbits :

1.) He says the band are not allowed to tour next year and have to deliver a new album.

2.) He says he and Cliff Bernstein aren't fans of the loudness wars and states " certain people habitually brickwall their albums. We don't like that. "

Could this be a clue that Rick Rubin is NOT set to produce Metallica 10 ?

Anyway - a couple of interesting and promising little vignettes.


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Offline Onno

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #125 on: July 27, 2013, 02:59:40 AM »
The band's manager Peter Mensch did an AMA.

A couple of titbits :

1.) He says the band are not allowed to tour next year and have to deliver a new album.

2.) He says he and Cliff Bernstein aren't fans of the loudness wars and states " certain people habitually brickwall their albums. We don't like that. "

Could this be a clue that Rick Rubin is NOT set to produce Metallica 10 ?

Anyway - a couple of interesting and promising little vignettes.


NICE
This!

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #126 on: July 27, 2013, 07:46:37 AM »
The band's manager Peter Mensch did an AMA.

A couple of titbits :

1.) He says the band are not allowed to tour next year and have to deliver a new album.

2.) He says he and Cliff Bernstein aren't fans of the loudness wars and states " certain people habitually brickwall their albums. We don't like that. "

Could this be a clue that Rick Rubin is NOT set to produce Metallica 10 ?

Anyway - a couple of interesting and promising little vignettes.

I don't think my expectations for the upcoming album will be very high, but I'll definitely check it out.

Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #127 on: July 27, 2013, 07:49:55 AM »
To be honest, I'd rather see Metallica tour again. They haven't been to the UK for a while and I'd be quite happy to see the same old classics again. I can't imagine the new album will top DM (which I actually thought was quite good).

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #128 on: July 27, 2013, 09:40:57 AM »
DM and St Anger both suffer from " Would have been great if they'd been produced well. "

Give St. Anger Black Album production and it would have been awesome.

Something like this : http://open.spotify.com/track/3OQzljlfWDjM9S9l8b0JGz   \m/

Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #129 on: July 27, 2013, 09:30:00 PM »
Good production does not excuse poor songwriting though.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?
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Offline LCArenas

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #130 on: July 27, 2013, 09:55:00 PM »
Or Uncyclopedia.


Their article on Alliteration  has to be seen :lol

Every single word in the entire article begins with the letter A. :lol

Outstanding. http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Alliteration
I laughed my ass off in the Metallica article. Dunno why it was taken off.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #131 on: July 27, 2013, 10:02:58 PM »
Good production does not excuse poor songwriting though.

This is the true problem. DM could have been saved if it had better production, though.

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #132 on: July 28, 2013, 12:26:54 AM »
Good production does not excuse poor songwriting though.

That. It definitely would have been an improvement, but regardless, the songs are sloppily played, lazily written and repetitive, and there would still only be a few decent songs on the album.

I can't even listen to the regular DM. It is unlistenable. I have the GH3 version, which sounds much better. DM was a well recorded and mixed album, then they messed it up and brickwalled the crap out of it.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #133 on: July 28, 2013, 12:31:04 AM »
Yeah, Death Magnetic could be much better with decent mixing and whatnot, but there is absolutely nothing that could save St. Anger. What a fucking mess of an album.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #134 on: July 28, 2013, 06:34:07 AM »
Good production does not excuse poor songwriting though.

That. It definitely would have been an improvement, but regardless, the songs are sloppily played, lazily written and repetitive, and there would still only be a few decent songs on the album.

I can't even listen to the regular DM. It is unlistenable. I have the GH3 version, which sounds much better. DM was a well recorded and mixed album, then they messed it up and brickwalled the crap out of it.

Even in the GH3 versions - The rhythm guitar sounds really weak and fizzy. This is a massive error when you have James Hetfield in the band - who usually gets colossal rhythm tones.

The next album *has* to have good production. Sonically - Lulu was a huge improvement - the guitars and drums at least sound massive.

It's kind of a relief to know that they can still make decent sounding albums.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #135 on: July 28, 2013, 06:40:19 AM »
Good production does not excuse poor songwriting though.

That. It definitely would have been an improvement, but regardless, the songs are sloppily played, lazily written and repetitive, and there would still only be a few decent songs on the album.

I can't even listen to the regular DM. It is unlistenable. I have the GH3 version, which sounds much better. DM was a well recorded and mixed album, then they messed it up and brickwalled the crap out of it.

Even in the GH3 versions - The rhythm guitar sounds really weak and fizzy. This is a massive error when you have James Hetfield in the band - who usually gets colossal rhythm tones.

I really like the guitar tone on it. The guitars are maybe mixed a *touch* too low, and the lack of proper mastering (good mastering, that is) makes it sound thinner and weaker than an official release too, but I'd still be more than happy for their next album to sound as good as the GH3 versions. It would still be better than 95% of modern metal albums end up sounding.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #136 on: July 28, 2013, 07:24:09 AM »
The album was mastered by Ted Jensen - he mentioned in an email to someone who wrote to him from the Metallica forum that the album was already ruined by the time he got it and there wasn't much he could do with it. He said that whoever was mixing it had already tried to do their own mastering on it by compressing the shit out of it and it was already brickwalled when he got the final mix.

MusicRadar and Rolling Stone attribute a quote to the album's mastering engineer Ted Jensen in which he claims that "mixes were already brick-walled before they arrived" for mastering

He went on to say that this is increasingly more common these days - getting final mixes that are already ruined. He even asked for his name to be taken off the final product. [ His name is missing on some copies of Death Magnetic ].

So i think it's more Greg Fidelman / Rick Ruin that are to blame.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #137 on: July 28, 2013, 07:26:54 AM »
Looking at his recent output - the latest Biffy album sounds really good as do the recent trilogy by Green Day.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #138 on: July 28, 2013, 07:27:50 AM »
I recall reading that too, so GH3 is probably using a more raw mix, and not what is on the album.
It's a shame it got ruined after that point, because it's a well recorded album imo. Hetfield's singing well, the guitar tone is good, the bass tone is good, and the drums sound good (although lacking a little punch from the rough mix/master).
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded
« Reply #139 on: July 28, 2013, 07:28:51 AM »
I think it could use a little reverb in places and a bit of colour [ it's quite a light, drab sounding record to me. ].

*snip*  < - - Have you heard these  ? basically the GH3 stems with a lot more punch. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 08:02:36 AM by Kotowboy »