Author Topic: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation  (Read 254688 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1785 on: January 24, 2015, 06:05:53 AM »
Was watching an episode of TNG at bro's house and pointed out that it's funny when everyone on screen has to be in shot and just as I said it - there's a shot of all the bridge crew

looking at the screen - and the angle changes and you just see Troi at the back just step into frame for some reason  :rollin

Later on there's a shot of two people talking and someone high up on a balcony just casually steps into frame.  :biggrin:

So funny.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1786 on: January 25, 2015, 05:46:34 AM »
Patrick Stewart telling a funny story about putting on a French accent for Picard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPDJJ-Iz-_A
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1787 on: January 25, 2015, 10:32:55 AM »
Sharron Osbourne needs to die a horrible fucking death, but other than that a fun video.
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1788 on: January 26, 2015, 05:24:29 PM »

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1789 on: January 26, 2015, 05:34:56 PM »
Mind blown
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1790 on: January 27, 2015, 04:53:24 AM »
 :metal
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1791 on: January 29, 2015, 09:30:17 PM »
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1792 on: January 29, 2015, 09:49:54 PM »
No. I look at it as Star Trek I and Star Trek II, with TOS being one and everything else being 2. Two very different series. Since I grew up on it, TOS remains the real deal. The others are pretty much the opposite, in that the roles of humans and aliens are reversed.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1793 on: January 29, 2015, 09:53:26 PM »
You pretty much have to be under 40 to poo-poo on ToS.    The over-40 crowd still love nearly every second of it.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1794 on: January 29, 2015, 10:02:43 PM »
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?

Sorta. I can't really take TOS seriously on the same level as the later series, and when they contradict each other, I naturally give the benefit of the doubt to the later series. But unlike WDADU, TOS is still enjoyable. :lol
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1795 on: January 29, 2015, 10:17:24 PM »
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?

Sorta. I can't really take TOS seriously on the same level as the later series, and when they contradict each other, I naturally give the benefit of the doubt to the later series. But unlike WDADU, TOS is still enjoyable. :lol
This never made any sense to me at all.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1796 on: January 29, 2015, 10:34:25 PM »
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?

Sorta. I can't really take TOS seriously on the same level as the later series, and when they contradict each other, I naturally give the benefit of the doubt to the later series. But unlike WDADU, TOS is still enjoyable. :lol
This never made any sense to me at all.

TOS was making shit up as it went along with little regard for continuity, because that's how TV was in the '60s. It even contradicted itself. The later series actually tried to make a consistent and plausible universe, so obviously had to retcon the stuff that didn't work. Sticking to every word of TOS is comparable to Christians still believing the world is 6000 years old. It doesn't work. At some point you have to relax the interpretation a bit.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1797 on: January 30, 2015, 06:45:47 AM »
Even Roddenberry saw it that way. TNG took preference when it came to canon.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1798 on: January 30, 2015, 08:21:46 AM »
Sticking to every word of TOS is comparable to Christians still believing the world is 6000 years old. It doesn't work. At some point you have to relax the interpretation a bit.


 :angry: Hey!! I'm a Christian and I'll have you know that my great great great great grandfather was a Pterodactyl !!!!

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1799 on: January 30, 2015, 08:30:38 AM »
Even Roddenberry saw it that way. TNG took preference when it came to canon.
Yeah, but Roddenberry was a maniac.  :lol

Y'alls point makes sense. Where I run into a problem is that people criticize TOS pretty hard for the contradictions TNG made. Seems to me that if you're going to dump all over one of them for contradictory canon it should be the latter (if you feel the need to dump on any at all).
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1800 on: January 30, 2015, 11:01:01 AM »
I don't blame Roddenberry for the contradictions, and I especially don't blame him for taking TNG to have preference when it comes to canon. As said, for TOS they wrote as they went along, and the "theremin background music" feeling was more important than internal consistency.
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1801 on: January 30, 2015, 12:54:19 PM »
Whelp, reading up on ST canon it seems that it wasn't TOS that was making it up as it went along, but Roddenberry throughout the whole shebang. Seems that they only really started minding it once he was gone and Piller and Berman were running things. GR actually didn't consider some of the movies canon, and was pretty clear that he had no problem being a revisionist whenever it suited his needs. 

On the bright side, it seems he'd actually be pleased that Rumbo considers TOS non-Trek:
Quote
With a charm and sincerity that clearly came from a person who was used to studying human behavior from the perspective of one who looked into the future, Roddenberry said that he expected -- indeed, he hoped -- that in the years to come, new generations of fans would look at the new forms of STAR TREK being produced and say, "This is real STAR TREK.  Those other people back there at the beginning, they didn't do it half as well.""»
Like I keep saying, the man was a fucking menace.  :lol
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1802 on: January 30, 2015, 04:27:17 PM »
I mean, I'm not saying TOS isn't Star Trek. That would be silly. But, ST 2.0, as you call it, is the consistent main body of Star Trek, where characters and plots interconnect.
Maybe the WDADU comparison isn't the best, maybe The Hobbit vs LOTR?
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1803 on: January 30, 2015, 04:40:29 PM »
I think both are valid analogies.  There's no question that TOS has a different feel and is a product of a different time.  It was episodic television, as there was nothing else at the time.  The fact that even a few episodes had characters and plot lines come back was considered pretty cool at the time.  But it's the one that started it all, and it does have a common lineage and definitely has much in common with what was to come.

By the 80's, multi-episode and even season-long story arcs were becoming more common.  I've tried a few times to watch Deep Space Nine because I've heard it's the best them, but whenever I do, I always feel like I've stepped into the middle of something and have no idea what's going on.  So there is also a potential downside.

But yeah, there's no question that TNG, DS9, and even Voyager are more "serious" television, with much greater care given to continuity and (with the exception of Voyager) character growth.  I can see Roddenberry considering these later series more real, more like what he was trying to do in the 60's but couldn't because TV audiences (and network executives) just weren't ready for it.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 09:04:06 PM by Orbert »

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1804 on: January 30, 2015, 05:22:27 PM »
Yeah, I'm on board with both of those posts. ST2.0 (that works pretty well) is certainly where most of the canon exists and pretty much makes up the ST universe. At the same time, and this is certainly largely based on nostalgia and whatnot, TOS is what I always wanted ST to be with everything else being a different show. And like ORbert said, a lot of it is simply that the networks weren't interested in GR's portrayal of some foreign utopia. Part of the appeal of TOS is that those are people like us rummaging about the galaxy, and while they're certainly flawed they're people you can relate to and admire. While I'd certainly love to live in the TNG universe, I think I'd be miserable with the company and I doubt I'd be very welcome.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1805 on: January 30, 2015, 07:20:36 PM »
What's interesting to me, I totally get the "normal guys rummaging the universe" thing, and in fact TOS much more reflected a likely assembly of characters than TNG. If I look at my daily workplace, TOS comes a lot closer than TNG.
At the same time, maybe because I didn't grow up with it, Kirk and Bones never felt like believable officers. Bones was just a naysayer, and Kirk had zero leader qualities. He just stuck his dick into whatever alien orifice was available in a given episode, and the rest of the time he yelled at people and inanimate objects.
Seriously, as bizarre as it sounds, out of the three, Spock was the most believable character.
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1806 on: January 30, 2015, 07:34:52 PM »
The lack of apparent leadership is interesting. However, I think there were differing styles of leadership required in the two era. You mentioned Kirk poking everything he could, and the first thing I thought was that it was more often than not necessary because something or another was trying to kill them. The 2.0 people spent plenty of time solving mysteries and gallivanting around in holodecks. It's pretty easy to offer guidance, mediate, encourage and whatever when the dramatic focus is whether or not Geordi gets to pork the cute scientist. Seems just about every situation Kirk gets into is life and death from the get go. Somebody's trying to kill him, the ship or start a war. In that situation yelling at people to do their jobs (and occasionally banging the enemies girlfriend) are required skillsets. Put another way, Kirk and his guys were the crew of a naval ship operating as military. Picard and his people are the American embassy in Beijing. Occasionally things will get hairy, but for the most part it's a damned nice gig.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1807 on: January 30, 2015, 09:20:13 PM »
I don't know. To me, when I watch any of those shows, in the back of my mind I imagine the daily grind. Kirk's bridge just never looked like it could function more than a day. It  had an egocentric at the top, bimbo servants, and people constantly dying.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1808 on: January 31, 2015, 05:24:52 AM »
Sounds like my office.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1809 on: January 31, 2015, 05:33:59 AM »
I always wondered how Data would fare as Captain since he'd have no human emotions to help/hinder him.


All his decisions would be computational rather than instinct or subterfuge.


I don't think Data would be able to pull off " The Corbomite Manoeuvre " as i'm pretty sure we've never seen Data use trickery unless under control from some

outside force.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1810 on: January 31, 2015, 07:43:33 AM »
Err, you are aware that there is a whole episode about Data commanding his own ship, and the problems associated with it, right?
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1811 on: January 31, 2015, 07:58:11 AM »
Err, you are aware that there is a whole episode about Data commanding his own ship, and the problems associated with it, right?

Which episode ? Obviously I forgot your majesty. 


Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1812 on: January 31, 2015, 07:59:01 AM »
Redemption. Excellent episode too.
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1813 on: January 31, 2015, 08:04:22 AM »
:). Thanks. I'll watch it later.

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1814 on: January 31, 2015, 01:07:44 PM »
He also assumes control after the deaths of Picard and Riker in Gambit. Worf is his XO and even a bigger asshole than that Hobson fellow. He had it better there, though, since the crew already knew him.

His skills and ability as a commander are one of the reasons I thought Captain Jelico was underutilized. It was clear both he and Worf appreciated the increase in discipline. Would have been nice to see Jelico stick around a few episodes with Data assuming more command responsibility.
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1815 on: January 31, 2015, 01:24:38 PM »
If "Redemption" is the episode I'm thinking of, I remember the discussions when it first aired (Usenet tng group).  Data gives the order to fire, and there is hesitation, so he turns and says "Fire!" and you look at his face and he's pissed.  This is a command, do it you little turd!

People were freaking out because Data was showing emotion, and, well... he's Data.  But that's just it; he was "showing" emotion.  He didn't feel it, he was not genuinely angry.  He simply calculated that under the circumstances, a more forceful approach was needed, and sitting there calmly giving the order to fire obviously wasn't cutting it.  So he amped up the emotion, got a mean look on his face, and said "Fire!"  And it got the reaction he needed.

Data was good in a command position precisely because he acted and reacted without emotion.

Also, yeah, Jellico was cool.  He came across as a dick at first, but it was simply his no-nonsense approach in sharp contrast to Picard's laid-back style.  Picard had earned his crew's respect.  Jellico didn't have that going for him, so he went with the direct approach, and by the end of the episode we understand that and see the logic in it.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1816 on: January 31, 2015, 04:05:43 PM »
I think Data would be able to copy Picard or Riker shouting if he needed to. It wouldn't be genuine emotion - more of a facsimile.

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1817 on: January 31, 2015, 10:42:00 PM »
I also have heard people complaining about his show of emotion in that scene. They're forgetting that he was in the holo deck in different episodes throughout the series working on acting so that he could better understand humanity. That scene was a huge moment in the development of his character, and it didn't surprise me in the least.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1818 on: February 03, 2015, 07:47:42 PM »


Guess who.
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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #1819 on: February 03, 2015, 08:07:11 PM »
Ironic that she had to go on immediately following Jeri Ryan wearing this:


Woman just can't catch a break.
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