Author Topic: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"  (Read 16819 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #105 on: April 01, 2013, 10:00:08 AM »
I agree that Part 2 has the best scene of the series with Doc explaining the alternate timelines.

That's where the second movie fails MISERABLY. Doc explains that when Biff returned to 1955 with the almanac, the timeline skewed into another tangent creating an alternate 1985. So riddle me this. How then did Biff give himself the Almanac in 1955 and then have the ability to return to 2015 to drop off the Delorean? He would have ended up in the alternate 2015 and Marty, Doc, and Jennifer would have been left stranded in their alternate (original) 2015.

Okay, but Marty, Doc and Jennifer were still in the original 2015, which would stay as it was until they traveled through time again and entered the alternate reality. 

Of course, that leads to the question of old Biff returning to the original 2015, not the alternate, and you could argue that he was returning from the original 1955, so he would go back to the original 2015.  The time line doesn't change from original to alternate until one of the key players involved travels through time, so once Biff returned to 2015, the alternate reality kicked in for him, but not for the others since they hadn't actually traveled through time again yet.  Yes, it is a bit of a stretch, but I am okay with it, since it was for the greater good of the story.

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #106 on: April 01, 2013, 10:02:50 AM »
I agree that Part 2 has the best scene of the series with Doc explaining the alternate timelines.

That's where the second movie fails MISERABLY. Doc explains that when Biff returned to 1955 with the almanac, the timeline skewed into another tangent creating an alternate 1985. So riddle me this. How then did Biff give himself the Almanac in 1955 and then have the ability to return to 2015 to drop off the Delorean? He would have ended up in the alternate 2015 and Marty, Doc, and Jennifer would have been left stranded in their alternate (original) 2015.

Okay, but Marty, Doc and Jennifer were still in the original 2015, which would stay as it was until they traveled through time again and entered the alternate reality. 

Of course, that leads to the question of old Biff returning to the original 2015, not the alternate, and you could argue that he was returning from the original 1955, so he would go back to the original 2015.  The time line doesn't change from original to alternate until one of the key players involved travels through time, so once Biff returned to 2015, the alternate reality kicked in, but you aren't actually gonna be in it until you travel through time again.

Wouldn't the Delorean itself be the key player, not the passengers on board? As soon as Biff handed himself the almanac, the future was set in motion. Wherever the Delorean went from that point on should have been subject to that alternate future.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #107 on: April 01, 2013, 10:06:27 AM »


Wouldn't the Delorean itself be the key player, not the passengers on board? As soon as Biff handed himself the almanac, the future was set in motion. Wherever the Delorean went from that point on should have been subject to that alternate future.

That could be argued, yes, and I get what you are saying. but again, I am okay with the liberties they took with regards to this.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #108 on: April 01, 2013, 10:06:50 AM »
I agree that Part 2 has the best scene of the series with Doc explaining the alternate timelines.

That's where the second movie fails MISERABLY. Doc explains that when Biff returned to 1955 with the almanac, the timeline skewed into another tangent creating an alternate 1985. So riddle me this. How then did Biff give himself the Almanac in 1955 and then have the ability to return to 2015 to drop off the Delorean? He would have ended up in the alternate 2015 and Marty, Doc, and Jennifer would have been left stranded in their alternate (original) 2015.

According to the "rules" set by BTTF1, there is one timeline, that has a delay in updating due to changes. So that alternate 1985 is actually replacing/overwriting the original 1985, not creating a new and separate timeline branch as the chalk board would imply. Therefore it was fine to leave Jennifer there. And when Biff returns to the future, he hobbles away and dies and fades away as Marty almost did in pt 1 (partially in a deleted scene that is included with the DVD/Bluray), because he no longer exists in the new 2015 that is starting to update around them (let's ignore the paradox of him no longer existing to take the Delorean in the first place, which would self-cancel and create a loop).

There are of course several other major flaws and inconsistencies in the way they handle time travel in those movies, but that one wasn't really one of the bigger problems. Since I don't consider them hardcore scifi movies, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of them though.

So then why doesn't the rest of 2015 change as fast as Biff died?

Speaking of Delorean. That reminds me of another problem I have with the third movie. Marty arrives in 1885 and rips a fuel line. Doc is freaking out like crazy. Why? Doc now has a back up Delorean (the one he arrived in) sitting in the cave, and it should have an in tact fuel line on it. He could have just left a note on the windshield for his 1955 self that read "FYI, needs fuel line". I'm sure in 1955 fuel lines were available on every corner drug store.

1. They get into the Delorean literally just as Biff gets out, so it may not have had time to change yet. And even if it was changing, it may not have changed noticeably. After all, it was just a generic street, and they weren't doing anything.

2. I believe the official answer is that they didn't want to disturb the Delorean, knowing that it has already been used to take Marty back, so they didn't want to risk changing anything and jeopardizing that.
Also, I heard from somewhere that the gas was taken out of it before putting it in storage to preserve the car (which is why it needed to be refueled in 1955, if I recall?), so they may not have still had that fuel available anyway. Do you really want that fuel sitting in a Delorean in a mine for 70 years? Doc may have used the fuel in 1885 for other things before Marty arrived too.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #109 on: April 01, 2013, 10:17:35 AM »
Right, let's assume that Biff did return to the alternate 2015.  He obviously made a point to return to the same spot where he left, and since Marty, Doc and Jennifer were where they were, it was easy for them to just jump back in the time machine and go back to 1985.  Even if it was the alternate 2015, their time in it would have been mere minutes, and nothing in the area where they were changed enough for them to notice, especially since their focus at that point was not their surroundings, but getting young Jennifer out of Old Marty and Old Jennifer's house and back down the street to the time machine.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #110 on: April 01, 2013, 10:22:04 AM »
As for 1885, yes, there should have been two Deloreans once Marty went there from 1955 (just like there were two Docs and two Martys in 1955 in II for a while), but again, there would have been no story in III had they just jumped back in the other Delorean and went back to 1985.  How boring would that have been? ;)

Offline rumborak

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #111 on: April 01, 2013, 11:24:56 AM »
Also, I heard from somewhere that the gas was taken out of it before putting it in storage to preserve the car (which is why it needed to be refueled in 1955, if I recall?), so they may not have still had that fuel available anyway. Do you really want that fuel sitting in a Delorean in a mine for 70 years? Doc may have used the fuel in 1885 for other things before Marty arrived too.

Not that it *really* matters what the explanation is (it's a fucking movie, after all), I like this explanation. Fuel does get stale over time, so naturally he would have emptied out the tank before hibernating the car. After all, the tires didn't survive either. He could have stolen the fuel injection manifold from the hibernated DeLorean, but that would have been seriously mucking with the future (and thus Marty).
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 11:30:37 AM by rumborak »
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2013, 11:30:29 AM »
Why on earth does anyone care about how the movie handles time travel?  The paradoxes and logical missteps are well-known, but it's a feel-good comedy.  Who cares?

Offline rumborak

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2013, 11:31:06 AM »
Because we're geeks. It's what we do.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2013, 11:32:29 AM »
I get giddy every single time I see that scene in BTTF3 where the open up the mine and see the preserved Delorean that's been sitting there since 1885. At that point, the last thing on my mind is time paradoxes and fuel.

But I still enjoy discussing these things because I'm a huge nerd.
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #115 on: April 01, 2013, 11:33:03 AM »
Because we're geeks. It's what we do.

You can't overthink these things.  When Darth Vader comes down from the Planet Vulcan to play you a Van Halen tune, you don't overthink it, you just do what he says.

Online Chino

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #116 on: April 01, 2013, 11:34:47 AM »
Why on earth does anyone care about how the movie handles time travel?

Because I don't follow any sports that I can bitch about with others. 

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2013, 11:56:15 AM »
Because we're geeks. It's what we do.

Pffft you call that geeky? Get back to me when you're recreating the entire BTTF2 2015 set in 3D....... :blob:
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Online Chino

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #118 on: April 01, 2013, 12:02:19 PM »
Because we're geeks. It's what we do.

Pffft you call that geeky? Get back to me when you're recreating the entire BTTF2 2015 set in 3D....... :blob:

Can you elaborate?

Offline rumborak

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #119 on: April 01, 2013, 12:08:08 PM »
Because we're geeks. It's what we do.

You can't overthink these things.  When Darth Vader comes down from the Planet Vulcan to play you a Van Halen tune, you don't overthink it, you just do what he says.

I don't know. I don't think I can take that kind of rejection.
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: "It's your kids, Marty, we've gotta do something about your kids!"
« Reply #120 on: April 01, 2013, 12:32:58 PM »
You can't overthink these things.  When Darth Vader comes down from the Planet Vulcan to play you a Van Halen tune, you don't overthink it, you just do what he says.

 :rollin :clap: