Author Topic: Native Americans?  (Read 7834 times)

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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 12:02:58 AM »
How common are the original languages?  Are they still spoken regularly?
They're still common. But with the gov't forcing children to school to learn the white ways, most have growb not knowing their culture.

What happened to your people in the past was very shitty, and I understand wanting your children to remember but to complain about your child being forced into education. That is just ridiculous. Own up to teaching your children your culture or find classes that do because gee the "white man" offers courses about native heritage as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 09:13:58 AM »
How common are the original languages?  Are they still spoken regularly?
They're still common. But with the gov't forcing children to school to learn the white ways, most have growb not knowing their culture.

What happened to your people in the past was very shitty, and I understand wanting your children to remember but to complain about your child being forced into education. That is just ridiculous. Own up to teaching your children your culture or find classes that do because gee the "white man" offers courses about native heritage as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system

Interesting read, thank you for linking that. I am now more sympathetic to their educational situation. It appears to be clean up now. I can see why Native would be hesitant to put their children in non-native schools now.

Offline sueño

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 10:27:13 AM »
^^^Nasty bit of business, that.  :(   :tdwn

Ben_Jamin -- have you heard of this?  http://www.npr.org/2013/06/20/193496493/translated-into-navajo-star-wars-will-be?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130620

What do you think?
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 12:55:28 PM »
That's cool. My language isn't navajo, and its like the common of native languages but that is still pretty interesting.
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Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 01:38:21 PM »
How common are the original languages?  Are they still spoken regularly?
They're still common. But with the gov't forcing children to school to learn the white ways, most have growb not knowing their culture.

What happened to your people in the past was very shitty, and I understand wanting your children to remember but to complain about your child being forced into education. That is just ridiculous. Own up to teaching your children your culture or find classes that do because gee the "white man" offers courses about native heritage as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system

Interesting read, thank you for linking that. I am now more sympathetic to their educational situation. It appears to be clean up now. I can see why Native would be hesitant to put their children in non-native schools now.

The effects continue, though.  There was three or four successive generations of aboriginal children who suffered psychological trauma in lieu of education.  That has impacted every facet of life for native peoples in Canada; it's impossible to separate modern problems of crime, alcoholism, drug abuse, financial problems, continued racism, unemployment, etc. from the Canadian government's persistent abuse of  native peoples.  It's the equivalent of snipping a guy's Achilles and then expecting him to run a 100 m race.
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Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2013, 05:07:51 AM »
The effects continue, though.  There was three or four successive generations of aboriginal children who suffered psychological trauma in lieu of education.  That has impacted every facet of life for native peoples in Canada; it's impossible to separate modern problems of crime, alcoholism, drug abuse, financial problems, continued racism, unemployment, etc. from the Canadian government's persistent abuse of  native peoples.  It's the equivalent of snipping a guy's Achilles and then expecting him to run a 100 m race.

That's why I said clean up.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2013, 11:36:03 AM »
As today is Independance Day,  I thought it right to post this blog post

Its about how The Haudnoshoone's Great Law of Peace inspired the US constitution.

http://www.nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/420/the-iroquois-confederacy
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2016, 03:42:52 PM »
Since I didn't want to derail the thread I originally posted this on (I forgot I created this thread)...

If anybody noticed, this is happening as we speak.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/08/20/dakota-access-pipeline-standing-rock-sioux-issue-urgent-appeal-united-nations-human


Their is little to No coverage on this. No major coverage on MSM. Why? It's an important issue and they are treating it like its nothing. This is the kind of injustice we as Native people still continue to face.

I feel people need to know about this. It's sad how people are complaint about BLM and all that bull while they turn a blind eye to this major event which involves the water, on treaty lands.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2016, 11:12:39 PM »
To OP: I deeply respect your culture, I wish to meet and converse with a native American one day, I've been in the U.S. for 6 years and only met one of you guys, and he was in native costume at a native American cultural fair in SA, so I guess they really got you good..
It was 2009, it was crowded, I shook his hands and he asked me where I'm from cause he heard me speak to my wife in Arabic and I told him Egypt so he said "I have so much respect and admiration to your culture" and I was somewhat still in amazement from meeting him and the crowd noise distracted me so I only said "Thank you" and moved on, instead of saying "As I have of yours" as I should have said, been bothering me ever since, felt like a douche.
But now that I told you I feel a little better about it :biggrin:
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2016, 12:03:19 AM »
It's different between tribes. I'm from the Pueblo and Hopi people's. It makes me grateful. No other way to put it.
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2016, 06:32:29 AM »
No idea. I've never met anyone of American Indian heritage in my life.

Months after this post, I met someone of mixed heritage (a Navajo Jew, fascinatingly!). Funny how life works.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2016, 06:55:11 AM »
I've got New England Algonquian in me according to my grandmother. When my ancestors came here in the mid 1650s, a bunch of them apparently got busy with the natives.

Also, I see this guy in Hartford all the time. He's always meeting with different on park benches and in the pizza shop I go to. I'd love to know what they're talking about. 

http://imgur.com/KL3QFCQ

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2016, 07:01:03 AM »
I just noticed my post from a few years ago in this thread and I had said I've never really met any native Americans.  But I can say that is no longer true.  A few months ago during my drive from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon, there was a scenic view stop along the highway and of course me as the tourist made the stop to take some pictures and there were a bunch of Native Americans selling items they made.  I ended up chatting with one of the guys for a little who was really nice.  I ended up buying an arrow head he made and I keep it on my desk at home with some of my other goodies from traveling around.  Sadly I can't seem to remember much else about that conversation including the meaning of the stone my arrow head was carved out of.  Kind of bummed I can't remember that.  I want to say it meant "long life" but I'm not positive.  It was a white marble looking stone too.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2016, 07:09:45 AM »
Might've been Havasupai. The southwest is pretty much Native based. Theirs like 30 tribes in New Mexico and Arizona alone.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2016, 07:53:21 AM »
I've got New England Algonquian in me according to my grandmother. When my ancestors came here in the mid 1650s, a bunch of them apparently got busy with the natives.

Also, I see this guy in Hartford all the time. He's always meeting with different on park benches and in the pizza shop I go to. I'd love to know what they're talking about. 

http://imgur.com/KL3QFCQ

I can tell you.    Hint:  the guy on the left has an open phone and a pile of money, and the guy on the right (your guy) has a pancho with dollar bill designs on it.   

"Bro, I could hang the coke from bags from my ear lobes, and in this getup, they'll never stop and frisk me."


Is that restaurant the pizza joint next door to the Federal?  Around the corner from where Coach's used to be and across the street from Hot Tomatos or whatever?

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2016, 08:37:56 AM »
I've got New England Algonquian in me according to my grandmother. When my ancestors came here in the mid 1650s, a bunch of them apparently got busy with the natives.

Also, I see this guy in Hartford all the time. He's always meeting with different on park benches and in the pizza shop I go to. I'd love to know what they're talking about. 

http://imgur.com/KL3QFCQ

I can tell you.    Hint:  the guy on the left has an open phone and a pile of money, and the guy on the right (your guy) has a pancho with dollar bill designs on it.   

"Bro, I could hang the coke from bags from my ear lobes, and in this getup, they'll never stop and frisk me."


Is that restaurant the pizza joint next door to the Federal?  Around the corner from where Coach's used to be and across the street from Hot Tomatos or whatever?

Hahaha..that's just too funny.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2016, 08:54:42 AM »
Interesting timing on this thread, as I just learned a lot more over the past weekend about the Native American heritage in my family than I had previously learned my entire life.  Basically, I knew that my grandfather was half Native American, but not much more than that.  It was never really talked about.  I didn't really know why, and never went out of my way to find out.  Basically, the short version is this:  He was one of 4 kids, and it was a time when the tribes in Northern California were really getting screwed over by the government and were also screwing themselves over.  There was a major identity crisis for Native Americans in this area, and it was not viewed by many as a positive to be Native American, so many disavowed any connection to the tribes, or at least just stopped talking about it. 

Within the family, there was sort of a split.  I was part of one of the branches that basically just stopped talking about that part of our lineage.  But my father was close with his cousins, and in that branch, the knowledge of where they came from remained alive and well, and that is where I learned a lot about that bit of my past.  Marin and Sonoma Counties were where the Coast Miwoks lived and thrived, and there are still a lot of villages preserved.  Apparently, our family matriarch of 5 generations ago is buried within sight of where we had a family reunion this past weekend at Heart's Desire Beach near Tomales Bay. 

Anyway, it was a good time of catching up and learning.  And this thread getting bumped was very timely in light of that.  Anyone wanting to know a bit more about the Coast Miwok tribes can read here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Miwok_people
https://www.nps.gov/pore/learn/historyculture/people_coastmiwok.htm
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2016, 09:00:58 AM »
That's an interesting story. Glad you shared it. There were many tribes in Califas, and that is one sad story of "Manifest Destiny"/"Beat the native out". 

Glad you are all appreciative of our Heritage. It means so much. I honestly wish though our stereotype of casinos was never meant to be.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2016, 09:09:31 AM »
I've got New England Algonquian in me according to my grandmother. When my ancestors came here in the mid 1650s, a bunch of them apparently got busy with the natives.

Also, I see this guy in Hartford all the time. He's always meeting with different on park benches and in the pizza shop I go to. I'd love to know what they're talking about. 

http://imgur.com/KL3QFCQ

I can tell you.    Hint:  the guy on the left has an open phone and a pile of money, and the guy on the right (your guy) has a pancho with dollar bill designs on it.   

"Bro, I could hang the coke from bags from my ear lobes, and in this getup, they'll never stop and frisk me."


Is that restaurant the pizza joint next door to the Federal?  Around the corner from where Coach's used to be and across the street from Hot Tomatos or whatever?

Hahah. I don't recognize the places you've listed, but that's in Pietro's Pizza (super shitty). It's only been there a few years. It used to be a Dunkin until they moved into State House Square.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2016, 09:16:47 AM »
I honestly wish though our stereotype of casinos was never meant to be.

Yeah, I am definitely with you on that.  One of the stories I was told actually related to that, albeit a bit tangentially.  It was not directly related to the casinos themselves, but is one of the many stories about the road to how we got here.  Basically, there was federal money put aside for some tribes around the time of the Civil War.  You probably know more about this than I do.  Unfortunately, as I said, I have been fairly ignorant about most of this.  There may have also been money from the state.  Not sure.  But in any case, the money had been mismanaged and not invested or anything, so about 100 years later around the late 1940s or early '50s, the same exact sum of money was just sitting there and had obviously lost a LOT of its value because of inflation. 

Anyhow, there was a large gathering in San Francisco that my great aunt and at least one of my father's cousins (as a very small boy) was present for where they were deciding whether to accept the money.  The catch was basically (and I don't know all the specifics) that accepting the money equated to forfeiting a great deal of the tribes' sovereign status.  That is part of the reason why the money sat so long.  It was supposed to have been well intended to compensate the tribes for the land that was taken, etc., but was part of the "great bargain" that would ultimately cause the tribes to give up even more of their identities if accepted.  Speaker after speaker stood up against the idea, and judging from the crowd reaction, the audience was pretty much unanimous that they still did not want to accept the funds and give up their sovereignty.  But then it came time for the "blind" vote, and when the anonymous votes were tallied up, they told a much different story.  Basically, once people could speak anonymously, money spoke louder, and the overwhelming majority was to accept the funds and give up their remaining lands and sovereignty.  According to my father's cousin, his mom told him as they were leaving something along the lines of, "Many people forgot today that they are Indians.  Don't ever forget that you are an Indian.  EVER."** 

But that whole duality is part of the reason for that identity crisis from that time.  And it was apparently part of the trend around the country during that time period of people who had that background essentially renouncing it or at least quietly relegating it to the background. 

I hope you find this interesting.  I may be a bit off on some of the details.  Again, this was something I never really knew about and only just learned, so I could easily be mistaken about some points.  But I think it is mostly correct.  It was really cool learning about that. 

One of my distant cousins is very much into the culture and is performing at this annual celebration, which we plan to attend this year with our kids so that we and they can learn a lot more:  http://touramador.com/chawse-big-time-indian-celebration



**FN:  And, yes, I realize "Indian" is not considered the politically-correct term.  But (1) that is the term that was used by her at the time, so in paraphrasing what she said, I wanted to capture it as accurately as I could (at least, as it was passed on to me); and (2) nobody in my family who shares that background (and this is true of many of the Native Americans in Northern California) do not shy away from or object to the term, even though most understand that it is historically inaccurate.  I tend to not shy away from it either, but my apologies if it offends anyone who feels differently.  Again, I use it only in the context in which it was used at the time, which is directly quoting (or at least paraphrasing a quote) someone from an event in the late '40s/early '50s. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 09:31:31 AM by bosk1 »
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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2016, 09:24:58 AM »
Thats a sad story, thanks for sharing

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2016, 10:13:39 AM »
That's pretty much true...

Glad you shared that personal story bosk.

It's walk once you research the history.

That is exactly what happened to the Califas tribes. I don't know how to put into words how much I respect you now.

It's hard out here for native...like the biggie song "It's hard out here for a pimp"
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2016, 12:03:40 PM »
Growing up during the 70's, I learned a lot about the shitty way the American settlers treated the people who were actually here first.  What makes it a little different for me is that I was one of two Asian-Americans in my neighborhood, in my entire school (the other was my sister), and they never let me forget that.  So I get to view all that history as something White Men did to the Natives, and I'm something like a neutral third-party observer.  Similarly, all the more recent racial crap between blacks and whites is something that "other people" are all upset about.  I can empathize, but after years of having it literally beaten into my head that I'm not white... fine, I'm not white.  Therefore it is their problem, not mine.

I have a deep respect for Native Americans and their philosophy (which as has been pointed out, varies from nation to nation, but there are commonalities).  The selflessness, the concern for the earth and the environment, and for each other.  Nothing could be better than all people living together and working toward the common good.  But white people always manage to fuck that up.  These days, I find it easier to be glad that I'm not white.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2016, 12:50:22 PM »
I've got New England Algonquian in me according to my grandmother. When my ancestors came here in the mid 1650s, a bunch of them apparently got busy with the natives.

Also, I see this guy in Hartford all the time. He's always meeting with different on park benches and in the pizza shop I go to. I'd love to know what they're talking about. 

http://imgur.com/KL3QFCQ

I can tell you.    Hint:  the guy on the left has an open phone and a pile of money, and the guy on the right (your guy) has a pancho with dollar bill designs on it.   

"Bro, I could hang the coke from bags from my ear lobes, and in this getup, they'll never stop and frisk me."


Is that restaurant the pizza joint next door to the Federal?  Around the corner from where Coach's used to be and across the street from Hot Tomatos or whatever?

Hahah. I don't recognize the places you've listed, but that's in Pietro's Pizza (super shitty). It's only been there a few years. It used to be a Dunkin until they moved into State House Square.

The place I'm talking about is over by the bus station.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2016, 03:09:07 PM »
So....other tribes are sending support to the Pipeline protests.  It shows how much we support and respect each other. The govt can keep doing all it wants but we as a people will stand strong.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2016, 03:16:12 PM »
I'd also like to point out this quote

I hate to be blunt but my guess is that a) it takes place in a state no one cares about and b) it involves a group that a vast majority of the country doesn't relate to at this point in our country's history.

That is the problem. Everyone thinks we are extinct and that's what the media fed. We are thriving and well, on the sidelines watching everything crumble.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2016, 06:10:42 PM »
I do stick by that and I hope you don't think it's my personal opinion towards native americans. I have never met anyone that is native american in my lifetime so I can not really comment on the culture but it does seem like if you quizzed the average person they'd say "they're OK because they own casinos" or "don't they live on reservations?". It's sort of fascinating how such a robust group of people can be pretty much forgotten about considering they're very much a part of our society.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2016, 09:02:12 AM »
I do stick by that and I hope you don't think it's my personal opinion towards native americans. I have never met anyone that is native american in my lifetime so I can not really comment on the culture but it does seem like if you quizzed the average person they'd say "they're OK because they own casinos" or "don't they live on reservations?". It's sort of fascinating how such a robust group of people can be pretty much forgotten about considering they're very much a part of our society.

Yeah it's nothing on you. But that sentiment is what's sad. They say people are smart yet, the majority think we still are the stereotype.

I bet you have ran into a Native but haven't noticed.

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Offline TempusVox

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2016, 09:49:09 PM »
Bosk...as to your footnote, it's interesting that what's deemed pc was created by those who have nothing to do with the terminology. As I've mentioned many times as a 1/4 Cherokee, I loathe the term Native American. It was a bullshit label created by the federal government to lump all the tribes under one heading for census and control. AIM (American Indian Movement) aggressively fought the term for a long time in the 70s and 80s. They still do. But it's now evenly split I'd guess of those indians who are totally accepting of the term. So, I say go ahead and be proud to claim your American Indian heritage. Fuck a bunch of "native" talk. Either way, don't ever apologize for or clarify your use of the term Indian.  :)
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2016, 08:44:49 AM »
Bosk...as to your footnote, it's interesting that what's deemed pc was created by those who have nothing to do with the terminology. As I've mentioned many times as a 1/4 Cherokee, I loathe the term Native American. It was a bullshit label created by the federal government to lump all the tribes under one heading for census and control. AIM (American Indian Movement) aggressively fought the term for a long time in the 70s and 80s. They still do. But it's now evenly split I'd guess of those indians who are totally accepting of the term. So, I say go ahead and be proud to claim your American Indian heritage. Fuck a bunch of "native" talk. Either way, don't ever apologize for or clarify your use of the term Indian.  :)

I hear you.  But since we live in an age where we are basically taught that anything and everything is potentially offensive, and our right to be free from being offended is perhaps the most sacred of our human rights, I just thought it best to clarify that no offense is intended. 
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2016, 10:17:47 AM »
I agree that Native American isn't a great title, but I can see how American Indian isn't much better (since they were here before America, and it's nowhere near India).

One term I have seen and heard used occasionally (I think in Canada) is First Nations, which sounds both more accurate and also majestic and badass.  But I don't think it's caught on here in the US very much.
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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2016, 10:22:00 AM »
Wouldn't calling them Native Americans be just as incorrect as Indians? The people that we refer to as either of those titles showed up some 10,000 years after stone age Europeans arrive here.

Offline TempusVox

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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2016, 10:48:15 PM »
I always thought First Nations was nice. My grandmother used to say, "Why don't they call us what we are? Cherokee, or Shawnee, Arapahoe, Lakota, Hopi, Navajo, Apache. They (white Europeans mostly) are quick to point out if they're Irish, or German, or English or Italian. But they want to call us all "Natives" instead of the people we are."
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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2016, 12:57:40 AM »
You aren't wrong, but I don't ever point out what I "am," unless specifically asked. I am an American. If you are here, then that's what you should be too. I don't really give a crap what someone's heritage is, unless I really want to get to know that aspect of their family history.
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Re: Native Americans?
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2016, 06:50:56 AM »
I always thought First Nations was nice. My grandmother used to say, "Why don't they call us what we are? Cherokee, or Shawnee, Arapahoe, Lakota, Hopi, Navajo, Apache. They (white Europeans mostly) are quick to point out if they're Irish, or German, or English or Italian. But they want to call us all "Natives" instead of the people we are."

Good point.  I was thinking this while reading through this thread.  I'm going to guess that the answer is because "native americans" kind of stuck and it's how most of America refers to those people now.  Not that it makes it OK or right, but kind of how things ended up (and I guess the history lesson in this thread even shows that as well). 

It's very true that white Euros (like myself) tend to refer to themselves by nation (I'm Italian, Irish, and Polish) and not refer to ourselves strictly as European.  Although for me, I have slowly just been saying yes those are my heritage, but I am American.  Mostly because my family has been here for enough generations that I don't feel any connection at all to Europe or my family's roots (and my parents certainly didn't have any connections to our heritage as well).