Author Topic: DT album ranking  (Read 108010 times)

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Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #175 on: July 09, 2009, 11:45:35 AM »
the instrumental section fitting is a matter of good/bad songwriting
That's what it's all about, and I'm leaning quite a bit toward the latter  :laugh:
Personally, If they split the instrumental section up and spread amongst say TMoLS and ITPOE, I'd enjoy both more. The instrumental sections of Enemies fit very well, while I think in Ministry it's quite pointless.
If they cut out the instrumental section from like 6:43 to say 10:10 and instead removed it or spliced it somewhere into Enemies 2, I'd actually rank the album considerably higher.

Offline Darkes7

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #176 on: July 09, 2009, 11:51:44 AM »
I'm not making an argument because I'm bored, simply because you apparently think you're Alpha and Omega. Not to mention that what you write contradicts itself.
Quote
It's that the majority of people (yes, the majority, you can cry about it if you like) prefer the better albums!
(...)
On that big of a scale no music is better than any other music.
That makes a lot of sense, just like all your posts here. ::)

Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #177 on: July 09, 2009, 11:53:51 AM »
I'm not making an argument because I'm bored, simply because you apparently think you're Alpha and Omega. Not to mention that what you write contradicts itself.
Quote
It's that the majority of people (yes, the majority, you can cry about it if you like) prefer the better albums!
(...)
On that big of a scale no music is better than any other music.
That makes a lot of sense, just like all your posts here. ::)
:facepalm: You're so right, the differences between Brittney Spears and Dream Theater are the same as the Differences between SC and 8VM

It's like you can't read, for real

Offline j

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #178 on: July 09, 2009, 12:02:47 PM »
That's not what he meant.  Regardless of what you were trying to say, this paragraph contradicts itself.

Quote
:rollin
I specifically said it's not that people don't like it. It's that the majority of people (yes, the majority, you can cry about it if you like) prefer the better albums! I Never said it was bad! You're just trying to make up an argument because you're bored or something. And it has nothing to do with if you "flipped around" the rule, popularity has to do with general musical taste, and general musical taste is subjective. On that big of a scale no music is better than any other music.

No big deal; it's all opinion.  Don't understand how one of these arguments about the painfully obvious concept of "subjectivity in music taste" always comes up.

-J

Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #179 on: July 09, 2009, 12:09:54 PM »
I don't know if you guys are understanding what I'm writing or what.
That's not what he meant.  Regardless of what you were trying to say, this paragraph contradicts itself.

Quote
:rollin
I specifically said it's not that people don't like it. It's that the majority of people (yes, the majority, you can cry about it if you like) prefer the better albums! I Never said it was bad! You're just trying to make up an argument because you're bored or something. And it has nothing to do with if you "flipped around" the rule, popularity has to do with general musical taste, and general musical taste is subjective. On that big of a scale no music is better than any other music.

No big deal; it's all opinion.  Don't understand how one of these arguments about the painfully obvious concept of "subjectivity in music taste" always comes up.

-J
I'm saying that regardless of the "subjectivity in music taste" DT Fans move away from SC with (little) time. here.

They merely like the others better and agree on their superiority to SC because people who's tastes make them inclined to enjoy SC or any DT album are the same tastes that allow them to understand the difference in quality of, say, any given 2 to 10 dream theater albums. Do you understand now?
The amount that different musical taste / subjectivity would have in choosing one dt album over another (except between like ToT and FII) is so minute, it's negligible. But it's the reason his Spears argument regarding popularity vs. quality doesn't work.
Get it?

Offline Darkes7

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #180 on: July 09, 2009, 12:19:05 PM »
First of all, talking about "quality" of DT albums (the exact word you used) is simply stupid - assuming you really don't want to prove that your opinion = fact - for a simple reason: there is no objective factor that would say that any DT album is of better quality than some other one. There's no major genre changes (like in case of e.g. Metallica - my first thought), nothing making any album obviously worse, unless you belong to the conspiracy theory saying that Roadrunner is pure evil - all 10 albums were created by a band called Dream Theater, with more or less the same lineup, and the same, recognisable style (although changing a bit on every album). Other than that, EVERYTHING is subjective, even SFAM being better than WDADU, as someone may actually like Charlie Dominici's singing more and prefer their style at that time to the later albums. Same goes for Systematic Chaos, Images and Words, and any other album.

For this reason, I'm fine if someone's favourite album is WDADU and the least favourite is SFAM.
It's also fine if someone dislikes Systematic Chaos.

...as long as they don't make some conspiracy theories out of it (OH NOES, DT SOLD OUT WITH SC!!!!!!!!!!!111one) and don't try to prove that their opinion is the only one correct.

PS. You said The Ministry of Lost Souls is bad because of the instrumental section - Learning to Live also has one, and it's not much shorter.

Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #181 on: July 09, 2009, 12:28:56 PM »
First of all, talking about "quality" of DT albums (the exact word you used) is simply stupid - assuming you really don't want to prove that your opinion = fact - for a simple reason: there is no objective factor that would say that any DT album is of better quality than some other one. There's no major genre changes (like in case of e.g. Metallica - my first thought), nothing making any album obviously worse, unless you belong to the conspiracy theory saying that Roadrunner is pure evil - all 10 albums were created by a band called Dream Theater, with more or less the same lineup, and the same, recognisable style (although changing a bit on every album). Other than that, EVERYTHING is subjective, even SFAM being better than WDADU, as someone may actually like Charlie Dominici's singing more and prefer their style at that time to the later albums. Same goes for Systematic Chaos, Images and Words, and any other album.

For this reason, I'm fine if someone's favourite album is WDADU and the least favourite is SFAM.
It's also fine if someone dislikes Systematic Chaos.

...as long as they don't make some conspiracy theories out of it (OH NOES, DT SOLD OUT WITH SC!!!!!!!!!!!111one) and don't try to prove that their opinion is the only one correct.

PS. You said The Ministry of Lost Souls is bad because of the instrumental section - Learning to Live also has one, and it's not much shorter.
I hope you understood when I said a Dream Theater album was better than another I was speaking in my opinion; I tried to make it as obvious as possible; while at the same time the trend is that people like the other albums better, I'm sorry. Yes, I realize different people will like different styles, like Dominici vs. Labrie (although I don't think many people really consider that any contest at all  :lol) and the different album styles vs. each other (ToT being balls to the wall with a break or two vs. Falling into Infinity being RC controlled and mainstream at many points, 6 Degrees with it's epic prog  and symphonic rock awesomeness (imo, as you see)), and those are qualities people would choose from those albums over others. I think this whole pesudo-argument started from a misinterpretation of my statement wherein you might've thought I implied anything about the Quality of SC.
I also Have no fkn clue what you're saying about conspiracy theories...?
I am also fine with how someone else ranks their albums. Mainly because most times I really couldn't give a shit and a half either way  :laugh:

And regarding the great and powerful LTL. IMO, that instrumental section is just better. That song/era is all just better to me. It's beautiful and I smile in my pants  :laugh: just about every time I hear it. I think I'm going to go listen to it right now actually.

EDIT: P.S. Plus it wasn't compressed all to hell like TMOLS.  :lol

Offline Darkes7

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #182 on: July 09, 2009, 12:35:41 PM »
Well, when you said that if someone who likes SC the most is obviously a DT-newbie, and someone ranking it third isn't much better (and it seems we started listening to DT at around the same time, if you say a few months after Octavarium was released), it doesn't sound like just an opinion, really.

Well, 'DT sold out with SC' sounds pretty much like a conspiracy theory to me.

Better for you. But the objective fact is: both are long songs, starting in an "epic ballad" way, and evolving into an instrumental section. In general both songs have a fairly similar structure, though musically they're different.

Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #183 on: July 09, 2009, 12:41:37 PM »
Well, when you said that if someone who likes SC the most is obviously a DT-newbie, and someone ranking it third isn't much better (and it seems we started listening to DT at around the same time, if you say a few months after Octavarium was released), it doesn't sound like just an opinion, really.

Well, 'DT sold out with SC' sounds pretty much like a conspiracy theory to me.

Better for you. But the objective fact is: both are long songs, starting in an "epic ballad" way, and evolving into an instrumental section. In general both songs have a fairly similar structure, though musically they're different.
Shit man you don't quit do you?
Yes. Ok. Someone who ranks SC first is obviously a noob. Not likes. I like SC. OMG.
THAT'S not an opinion. Look at this thread! How many well-listened non-noob fans rank SC anywhere near 1?
It's called a trend. That's what I've been saying the whole time and you STILL don't get it.

Where the hell are you getting this sold-out stuff anyway? Since when do I believe they sold out with SC? Is that what you're saying you think? Because that would definitely be taking a step back.

And I wouldn't ever say TMOLS starts off in an epic-ballad way  :lol
And the musical difference is what I love. LTL is so much more rock than metal and it feels like it's openness and the natural feeling it has to it make me feel like it deserves to be my favorite DT piece.

Offline Darkes7

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #184 on: July 09, 2009, 12:48:17 PM »
Ok, I give up... live in your world.

Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #185 on: July 09, 2009, 12:55:04 PM »
tl;dr

Offline InTheNameOfGod

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #186 on: July 09, 2009, 01:07:30 PM »
austin, SC does have enough qualities for people to place the album high.

I think it's a very good album, and better than 8V, WDADU and FII, atleast.

Currently listening to:

Anathema - We're Here Because We're Here *****
Kamelot - Poetry For The Poisoned **
Les Discrets - Septembre Et Ses Dernières Pensées ***1/2
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Offline austin

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #187 on: July 09, 2009, 01:09:20 PM »
And I do think the other albums have more qualities for people to place the albums higher... like they do.
Read the thread people!
 :laugh:

Offline EstyMaJ

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #188 on: August 04, 2009, 09:11:13 AM »
Ok this isn't easy but here is my order of fav to least fav

SFAM
I&W
FII
BC&SL
Awake
6DOIT
SC
TOT
Octavarium
WDADU - But there are 3 great toons on it IMO
I cant really consider change of seasons an album but that track alone is worth buying the cd

Offline LTE

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #189 on: August 04, 2009, 11:13:42 AM »
Scenes From a Memory> Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence+ Awake+Images and Words> Black Clouds and Silver Linings> Train Of Thought> Falling into Infinity>>>> Systematic Chaos
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Offline 73109

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #190 on: August 04, 2009, 11:22:38 AM »
1. Awake
2. Images and Words
3. Metropolis Pt.2 Scenes from a Memory
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. Falling Into Infinity
6.Train of Thought
7.Black Clouds and Silver Linings
8. Octavarium
9. Systamatic Choas
10. When Dream and Day Unite

4 and 5 are pretty much interchangable, i just picked what im feeling at ths very second

Offline icysk8r

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #191 on: August 04, 2009, 11:34:40 AM »
scenes
awake
images
black clouds
octavarium
six degrees
train of thought
falling into infinity
systematic chaos
fuck when dream and day unite.
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Offline j

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #192 on: August 04, 2009, 12:06:50 PM »
I'm updating mine.

1. I&W
2. Awake
3. 6DOIT
4. FII
5. BC&SL
6. SFAM
7. WDADU
8. 8VM
9. TOT
10. SC

4-7 are the only ones that ever change.

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Offline Mladen

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #193 on: August 04, 2009, 03:16:05 PM »
My list has changed a bit since the release of Black clouds and silver linings, so here it is now:

1. Scenes from a memory - 10/10
2. Images and words - 9.5/10
3. Awake - 9.5/10
4. Black clouds & silver linings - 9.5/10
5. Six degrees of inner turbulence - 9/10
6. Systematic chaos - 9/10
7. Train of thought - 9/10
8. Octavarium - 8.5/10
9. Falling into infinity - 7.5/10

Still need to hear WDADU...

Online ariich

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #194 on: August 04, 2009, 03:18:26 PM »
Look, I know you're new here and everything, so you probly don't know. But when SC is someone's fav, that really does mean they're new. I can't really think of any real veteran DT fans that have SC at least in their top 3. I mean yeah, I can understand it being someone's favorite, but only if that someone really has no experience with listening to really good music  :lol
Wtf? None of this makes any sense. Plenty of long term DT fans like the album a lot and have it high in their rankings. It's pretty middlish in my rankings.

Offline Darkes7

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #195 on: August 04, 2009, 03:29:17 PM »
Now that nearly a month has passed, maybe he's able to understand what he was writing about. Because back then he clearly couldn't, looking at the self-contradicting posts.

Offline LadyEars

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #196 on: August 04, 2009, 05:49:06 PM »
WTF I'm always late to the party.

1) Scenes from a Memory
2) A Change of Seasons (for title track alone)
3) Awake*
4) Images and Words*
5) Six Degrees*
6) Octavarium*
7) Train of Thought
8) Black Clouds
9) Falling into Infinity
10) Systematic Chaos
11) When Dream and Day Unit

*order is subject to change

edited to include ACOS. Still doesn't look right though. Seems like TOT should be higher on the list.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 08:22:57 PM by LadyEars »
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Offline Jamariquay

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #197 on: August 04, 2009, 06:21:34 PM »
Lessee.... any major change for me? Hm.

1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. Awake
3. Scenes From A Memory
4. Images and Words
5. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
6. Train Of Thought (This one used to be last, but it's been growing on me a lot lately. It's not the most ambitious album they've ever made, but it does what it does do, progressive metal, very well indeed)
7. Falling Into Infinity (This one's fallen faaaaaaaaar. Used to be tied for #1, but then I figgered, I really couldn't rank it as though all the unreleased tracks and demos were a part of the album. Because, well, they're not :( )
8. Octavarium
9. Systematic Chaos
N/A. When Dream And Day Unite (it wouldn't be fair of me to rank this)

Offline Phil 72

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #198 on: August 05, 2009, 05:20:45 AM »
hmmm-
 
1.Images And Words
2.Awake
3.Black Clouds And Silver Linings
4.Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
5.Scenes From A Memory
6.Train Of Thought
7.Octavarium
8.When Day And Dream Unite
9.Systematic Chaos
10. Fallling Into Infinity

Offline Zantera

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #199 on: August 05, 2009, 05:25:10 AM »
Update:

1. Awake
2. Images & Words
3. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
4. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
5. Systematic Chaos
6. Metropolis part2: Scenes From A Memory
7. Octavarium
8. Train Of Thought
9. Falling Into Infinity
10. When Dream And Day Unite

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #200 on: August 05, 2009, 07:58:51 PM »
I.  SDOIT
II.  I&W
III.  SFAM
IV.  Awake
V.  BC & SL
VI.  FII
VII.  8VM
VIII.  ToT
IX.  SC
X.  WDADU
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Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #201 on: August 05, 2009, 08:07:43 PM »
Seems I never updated after the album release

1. Awake
2. Six Degrees
3. Black Clouds
4. Images and Words
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Octavarium
7. Scenes From a Memory
8. When Dream and Day Unite
9. Systematic Chaos
10. Train of Thought

Offline billabong880616

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #202 on: August 05, 2009, 08:40:35 PM »
1. Train of Though
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Octavarium
7. Systematic Chaos
8. Awake
9. Images and Words
10. When Dream and Day Unite

Offline j

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #203 on: August 05, 2009, 09:20:56 PM »
1. Train of Though
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Octavarium
7. Systematic Chaos
8. Awake
9. Images and Words
10. When Dream and Day Unite

To each his own, but it is physically painful for me to look at this.   :lol

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Offline FutileShadow

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #204 on: August 05, 2009, 10:32:02 PM »
I did the spreadsheet average method for all the songs on each album.

1   SFAM    8.85
2   BCSL     8.67
3   I&W      8.38
4   SC      8.25
5   SDOIT   8.00
5   TOT      8.00
7   8VM       7.50
8   Awake   7.45
9   FII       6.82
10   WDADU   6.00

Offline Scard

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #205 on: August 05, 2009, 10:52:21 PM »
And my list as of lately:

Awake
6DOIT
BC&SL
I&W
8VM
SFAM
FII
ToT
SC
WDADU

Offline Dcrupi

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #206 on: August 05, 2009, 11:14:42 PM »
1. Train of Though
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Octavarium
7. Systematic Chaos
8. Awake
9. Images and Words
10. When Dream and Day Unite

Oh dear.

My list:

Images & Words
Awake
Scenes From A Memory
Octavarium
Black Clouds & Silver Linings
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Falling Into Infinity
When Dream and Day Unite
Systematic Chaos

Offline Mladen

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #207 on: August 06, 2009, 02:06:39 AM »
Dcrupi, Train of thought is missing...

Offline Sintheros

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #208 on: August 06, 2009, 04:22:28 AM »
Awake
SDOIT
BCSL
SFaM
-
I&W
ToT
8VM
SC
-
FII
WDADU

The problem is that each album has its fair share of OMG AMAZING songs and OMG NOT AMAZING songs. The four on top I like every single song to some extent (Awake, BCSL, SDOIT), or they work well as a package (SFaM, Awake, SDOIT). The four in the middle there are songs I like a whole lot (Metropolis, Learning to Live, ITNOG, These Walls, 8VM, ITPoE, and others), but there are others that just don't hold up as well. FII has 4 songs I like, out of 11. It'd be 5, but Hollow Years live is not Hollow Years studio. I haven't given anything off WDADU except The Killing Hand any listening time, and that's probably because listening to Dominici feels odd.
caw caw

Offline Darkes7

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Re: DT album ranking
« Reply #209 on: August 06, 2009, 06:17:57 AM »
1. Train of Though
2. Scenes from a Memory
3. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Octavarium
7. Systematic Chaos
8. Awake
9. Images and Words
10. When Dream and Day Unite
:tup for originality and no I&W worship.