Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 979767 times)

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7665 on: April 14, 2017, 01:24:10 PM »
If it was an ongoing thing I'd see at concerts then yeah, I could see the way you feel.  But for the 14 DT shows I've been to I never saw that myself.


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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7666 on: April 14, 2017, 01:29:01 PM »
I think the discussion point here shouldn't be James' facial expresions, but the fact that they insist on playing the IAW songs, knowing that James isn't going to be able to pull them off consistently night alter night. It's not rocket science, guys  :huh:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Siddhartha

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7667 on: April 14, 2017, 01:29:18 PM »
If it was an ongoing thing I'd see at concerts then yeah, I could see the way you feel.  But for the 14 DT shows I've been to I never saw that myself.

I never seen that in either of the ones I have attended (even when everything went south like the one horror night I described before). Thatīs the reason it surprised me to see that clip.

Iīm just hopping that in a couple of weeks they perform as good as usual.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7668 on: April 14, 2017, 01:46:39 PM »
That's what I assumed you were referring to. Yes, he does seemed irritated at something. It doesn't mean he has some negative attitude towards everything. You've never seen ANY of the guys get frustrated on stage if they miss or note or something? You clearly don't watch too many live shows.

And bad attitude sucks and looks unprofessional, whatever the reason.

No, it looks like sometimes shit happens and everybody expresses it differently. But I guess you're a special creature who is so resilient to life that you always have a smile on your face because rainbows and unicorns.

Offline TAC

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7669 on: April 14, 2017, 02:02:45 PM »

???  What are you talking about?  What did James do that displayed any kind of negative attitude?

Hit at 3:40.

Man, if I saw that at a concert Iīll be very tempted to leave.

I donīt believe you donīt see that grin.

First off, that is some amazing video.

Also, considering some of the vocals on this tour, this was actually one of the best I've heard. These vocals probably take intense focus for him. I don't see anything negative at all. At the 3;40 timestamp, he sings his part, and does a decent job BTW, and then flicks the mic stand as if to say "fuck yeah". Maybe he has to psyche himself up to be angry to sing some of this stuff, with it being so hard.

Man, if I saw that at a concert I'll be very tempted to go to every show.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Siddhartha

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7670 on: April 14, 2017, 02:06:47 PM »


No, it looks like sometimes shit happens and everybody expresses it differently. But I guess you're a special creature who is so resilient to life that you always have a smile on your face because rainbows and unicorns.

Oh Iīm not special, there are millions like me that donīt let their shit show to the people they are working for, because it is not their fault.

Then are the ones that doesnīt care because "we are all human", so they can treat people poorly because they donīt feel good. Like you.

Offline V_R11

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7671 on: April 14, 2017, 02:12:35 PM »
I think the discussion point here shouldn't be James' facial expresions, but the fact that they insist on playing the IAW songs, knowing that James isn't going to be able to pull them off consistently night alter night. It's not rocket science, guys  :huh:

 I'd like to think that nobody forced James to do this tour...I mean, they wouldn't do it if they knew it was too much for him. And he did get really sick. Saw the Helsinki show this tour and you could tell that he was frustrated with his voice but the thing is...I okayed him for that completely because he did his best, totally nailing some of it and was phenomenal is terms of connecting with the audience. Yes, it's his job, but he's a human and it's very understandable that it gets to him when his voice just isn't there
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7672 on: April 14, 2017, 02:19:16 PM »


No, it looks like sometimes shit happens and everybody expresses it differently. But I guess you're a special creature who is so resilient to life that you always have a smile on your face because rainbows and unicorns.

Oh Iīm not special, there are millions like me that donīt let their shit show to the people they are working for, because it is not their fault.

Then are the ones that doesnīt care because "we are all human", so they can treat people poorly because they donīt feel good. Like you.

Okay, but nobody treated anybody poorly in that video, so I go back to my original question:  What are you talking about?
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7673 on: April 14, 2017, 02:26:44 PM »


No, it looks like sometimes shit happens and everybody expresses it differently. But I guess you're a special creature who is so resilient to life that you always have a smile on your face because rainbows and unicorns.

Oh Iīm not special, there are millions like me that donīt let their shit show to the people they are working for, because it is not their fault.

Then are the ones that doesnīt care because "we are all human", so they can treat people poorly because they donīt feel good. Like you.

Your understanding of human psychology is...scary. It almost comes across that you think human rationale is binary.

Offline CB

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7674 on: April 14, 2017, 02:33:23 PM »
Just saw this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxWru5RgVu4

To do what James do on that clip they should better stay at home. What a shitty attitude.

Iīm starting to regret having to drive 900Km to see them at the end of the month.

???  What are you talking about?  What did James do that displayed any kind of negative attitude?

Well, I don't know if he's just getting into the song or he seems a bit miffed at something. I wouldn't say he has a shitty attitude, maybe just having a bad night vocally and it's getting to him.

He definitely looked frustrated, maybe at himself (seems likely) maybe at something else.  I got to be honest and say that would turn me off a bit seeing that, I particularly love watching bands that are smiling and visibly look happy, it makes me happy.  If that's a one off moment, fine we are all human. If he acted like that all concert then I'd say there's a problem (I don't think there is other than he's struggling)

Consider what that song is about ... 5 band members smiling and looking happy playing THAT song would put me off, honestly. Look at JP's face during his solo part ... no happy smiling face as well.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7675 on: April 14, 2017, 03:26:38 PM »
Just saw this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxWru5RgVu4

To do what James do on that clip they should better stay at home. What a shitty attitude.

Iīm starting to regret having to drive 900Km to see them at the end of the month.

???  What are you talking about?  What did James do that displayed any kind of negative attitude?

Well, I don't know if he's just getting into the song or he seems a bit miffed at something. I wouldn't say he has a shitty attitude, maybe just having a bad night vocally and it's getting to him.

Looked to me like he was frustrated because he wasn't able to hit certain notes the way he wanted to.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7676 on: April 14, 2017, 04:11:49 PM »
I have no idea what this discussion is about. That facial expression was more "tough-guy", wasn't it? I can't say I can ever remember James letting his personal feelings influence his performance, and I don't think this one is either.

Interesting that JR was wearing headphones. I don't recall him ever doing that.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7677 on: April 14, 2017, 05:01:56 PM »
I have no idea what this discussion is about. That facial expression was more "tough-guy", wasn't it? I can't say I can ever remember James letting his personal feelings influence his performance, and I don't think this one is either.

Interesting that JR was wearing headphones. I don't recall him ever doing that.

He was having issues with his in-ear monitors, Somebody who went to that concert posted about it on another thread a while ago. I think JR also commented on that somewhere.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7678 on: April 14, 2017, 08:17:51 PM »
To be honest, I didn't think he was that bad apart from 2:20-3:00. Everything else seemed fine to me
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Offline red barchetta

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7679 on: April 14, 2017, 10:09:03 PM »
He looks unhappy about his voice. He is really struggling with that song even being played in a lower key. But it is no big deal to me though most musicians hide mostly mistakes and bad times. He is just trying hard and wants to do his best.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7680 on: April 15, 2017, 01:28:48 AM »
And bad attitude sucks and looks unprofessional, whatever the reason.
I could see your point if JLB was flipping off the audience or going all Geoff Tate on them, telling them they suck. But while you can tell he's pissed off in that clip, he's not taking it out on anyone. I doubt most people thought "wow, what a douche" or even paid attention to it. I saw them in Helsinki and noticed a little bit of frustration at a few points when he couldn't hit the notes, but when he was addressing us and telling stories, there was no negativity whatsoever. Assuming he's recovered from his illness, you probably won't see James acting like he does in that video.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7681 on: April 15, 2017, 06:43:39 AM »
I have no idea what this discussion is about. That facial expression was more "tough-guy", wasn't it? I can't say I can ever remember James letting his personal feelings influence his performance, and I don't think this one is either.

Interesting that JR was wearing headphones. I don't recall him ever doing that.

I was wondering about the headphones too  :lol

I think the discussion point here shouldn't be James' facial expresions, but the fact that they insist on playing the IAW songs, knowing that James isn't going to be able to pull them off consistently night alter night. It's not rocket science, guys  :huh:

My opinion, but I think this is the last of most of those songs live.  I think the mix of poor attendance on that last TA leg and some general negativity towards the band plus the timing of 25th anniversary of their most popular album, it just made sense for them to hit the road again honoring the album and mixing in some other fan wanted songs to invigorate the fan base again.  It seems to mostly be working even if the performances aren't perfect.  I personally can not wait for them to announce NA dates so I can catch my all time favorite album live, perfect or not.  When this is over, I doubt we get the opportunity to see a lot of these songs again.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7682 on: April 15, 2017, 07:01:42 AM »
At most he looks more frustrated than anything else which I can totally understand, he seemed to be struggling a bit. It's no big deal and it happens.

It happens to me when I play guitar, some days things will flow out and seem effortless, other days for no apparent reason I'll struggle with the same songs, it can be frustrating.

Offline V_R11

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7683 on: April 15, 2017, 07:22:59 AM »
At most he looks more frustrated than anything else which I can totally understand, he seemed to be struggling a bit. It's no big deal and it happens.

It happens to me when I play guitar, some days things will flow out and seem effortless, other days for no apparent reason I'll struggle with the same songs, it can be frustrating.

Yeah same. One of my favorite quotes is what JMX said in #10 here:
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7684 on: April 15, 2017, 11:19:09 AM »
I think the discussion point here shouldn't be James' facial expresions, but the fact that they insist on playing the IAW songs, knowing that James isn't going to be able to pull them off consistently night alter night. It's not rocket science, guys  :huh:

My opinion, but I think this is the last of most of those songs live.  I think the mix of poor attendance on that last TA leg and some general negativity towards the band plus the timing of 25th anniversary of their most popular album, it just made sense for them to hit the road again honoring the album and mixing in some other fan wanted songs to invigorate the fan base again.  It seems to mostly be working even if the performances aren't perfect.  I personally can not wait for them to announce NA dates so I can catch my all time favorite album live, perfect or not.  When this is over, I doubt we get the opportunity to see a lot of these songs again.

I think you're right, they've played these songs waaaaay too much over the last 25 years that retiring them from the setlists for a few year will do no harm. I really hope they stop playing the IAW songs, as well as AIA, TSCO, and the other songs they've been playing a lot in the last years. They have a catalog big enough to play completely different songs on  every tour without repeating them.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7685 on: April 15, 2017, 11:21:26 AM »
Huh?  They didn't play anything from I&W on the DT12 tour and most of the TA tour (nada until the last month when they made the encore three old songs).  They have done an outstanding job of not repeating too many songs from tour to tour since Mangini joined the band.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7686 on: April 15, 2017, 12:53:37 PM »
Huh?  They didn't play anything from I&W on the DT12 tour and most of the TA tour (nada until the last month when they made the encore three old songs).  They have done an outstanding job of not repeating too many songs from tour to tour since Mangini joined the band.

On the ADTOE tour they played almost all of IAW, also, their most played songs of all time are IAW songs (you can see that at Setlist.fm). They've played TSCO on the ADTOE tour, their 2015 tour, the TA tour and played it a couple times on this tour. Same thing goes for AIA.
BAI was played on the ADTOE tour, the DT12 tour and is being played on the current tour. There's more examples, but I think these are enough.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7687 on: April 15, 2017, 01:01:31 PM »
About the I&W songs being the most played in their history... well, it's their second album and it's vastly and overwhemingly more popular than the debut. Sure they relied a lot on those songs, but at a certain point it's just a matter of math.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7688 on: April 15, 2017, 02:25:23 PM »
I expected a complete trainwreck going into that Another Day vid, but it was honestly ok to me. I'm not expecting him to hit those ultra high notes anymore, and a good chunk of the alternate melodies are well-chosen. Some not. Takes some time to figure out I suppose. Yeah he was obviously frustrated. As an experienced showman JLB undoubtedly knows that when things don't go as expected, 90% of the audience probably won't even notice if you keep acting like everything's totally fine. This time, he couldn't be bothered keeping up appearance. It happens to the best of us.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7689 on: April 15, 2017, 02:35:20 PM »
Huh?  They didn't play anything from I&W on the DT12 tour and most of the TA tour (nada until the last month when they made the encore three old songs).  They have done an outstanding job of not repeating too many songs from tour to tour since Mangini joined the band.

On the ADTOE tour they played almost all of IAW, also, their most played songs of all time are IAW songs (you can see that at Setlist.fm). They've played TSCO on the ADTOE tour, their 2015 tour, the TA tour and played it a couple times on this tour. Same thing goes for AIA.
BAI was played on the ADTOE tour, the DT12 tour and is being played on the current tour. There's more examples, but I think these are enough.

1. Like MirrorMask said, I&W is their 2nd oldest album, and the debut doesn't get a lot of live play for obvious reasons, so it really is just a matter of math.  Factor in that it is arguably their most popular album, and it having the most plays of any DT album makes total sense. 

2. Breaking All Illusions appears to be the most popular song of the Mangini era. Not sure why some think it is bad thing to play a crowd favorite. 

3. Number 2 also applies to The Spirit Carries On, which is ALWAYS loved by the live crowds.  Are we really going to complain about a band playing a song that most fans always love seeing?


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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7690 on: April 15, 2017, 03:19:54 PM »
It's fine for a singer to sing and old song differently as they get older.  Us fans have to get over it.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7691 on: April 15, 2017, 03:23:28 PM »
I expected a complete trainwreck going into that Another Day vid, but it was honestly ok to me.

Yeah, same here. Reading the comments before watching the video would make one think a cringeworthy and embarassing performance, while he did just fine and had just some issues of clarity and power here and there, without really ruining the song. No perfection but still quite acceptable, given the demanding song.
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Offline tarskian

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7692 on: April 15, 2017, 03:27:01 PM »
Just saw this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxWru5RgVu4

To do what James do on that clip they should better stay at home. What a shitty attitude.

Iīm starting to regret having to drive 900Km to see them at the end of the month.

This comment completely baffles me. I really don't see how any reasonable person could watch this vid and arrive at the conclusions that you did.

Edit: I don't want to come off as overly harsh, but it looks like James was giving it his all, and it sounded pretty rad to me. And yet you think that slightly flipping his microphone stand to the side is an indication of a "shitty attitude"? Jeez...

Offline CB

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7693 on: April 15, 2017, 04:56:46 PM »
Just saw this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxWru5RgVu4

To do what James do on that clip they should better stay at home. What a shitty attitude.

Iīm starting to regret having to drive 900Km to see them at the end of the month.

This comment completely baffles me. I really don't see how any reasonable person could watch this vid and arrive at the conclusions that you did.

Edit: I don't want to come off as overly harsh, but it looks like James was giving it his all, and it sounded pretty rad to me. And yet you think that slightly flipping his microphone stand to the side is an indication of a "shitty attitude"? Jeez...

I was at that show (it must be the Hamburg show because of JRs headphones). I didn't see or feel a shitty attitude ... the audience was very satisfied. I remember I never saw JLB communicating that much with the audience ever before, he was very much into it, very intense. I could understand if someone who doesn't know the band and the song, just watching that video, might think JLB was in a bad mood, but he (as JP) has never been the happy smiling type on stage, and that's ok because that wouldn't fit DTs music and lyrics (imo).

I think he sang quite well in Hamburg, despite being ill. Reading some of the negative comments on youtube I just wonder what's the problem? The high note he screamed? (What's wong about that, it's a metal band!) His voice doesn't sound exactly like 25 years ago, that doesn't mean it's not as good, just different. It's the reaction of the live audience that matters anyway.

Nobody "has to"" drive 900 km to see the band...

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7694 on: April 15, 2017, 05:43:56 PM »
Siddartha, I was at that DT show in Madrid in 2014, and was equally frustrated. And I agree with you on your opinion about James' attitude on the video you posted. His frustration is not with the audienceor the gig, but with himself. But it still sucks.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7695 on: April 15, 2017, 05:58:33 PM »
::) What's worse :

i. James has a bad gig vocally but tries his best anyway and looks visibly frustrated at himself

ii. James has a bad gig vocally and acts like he's god's gift to singing is noticeably bored and giving 75% on stage

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7696 on: April 15, 2017, 06:06:14 PM »
::) What's worse :

i. James has a bad gig vocally but tries his best anyway and looks visibly frustrated at himself

ii. James has a bad gig vocally and acts like he's god's gift to singing is noticeably bored and giving 75% on stage

Both situations suck when you're a paying customer.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7697 on: April 15, 2017, 06:17:33 PM »
:angry: Dear James.

I paid my own cash to see Dream Theater perform and you were UNWELL!!!

How f'king dare you!!!

I expect a full refund !!!!

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7698 on: April 15, 2017, 06:26:49 PM »
I saw a Maiden concert where Bruce had the flu, and you could tell he was suffering. He said he was sick on the very first song, and didn't hit ANY of the high notes he's famous for. Did he kick the microphone like James does in that vídeo? Not even once. It's all about the attitude.

Offline Ravenfoul

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7699 on: April 15, 2017, 08:21:22 PM »
Guys im gonna need a timestamp, not seeing this. Seems like an overreaction to me.