Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 375881 times)

Secor and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kotowboy

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24965
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7595 on: April 07, 2017, 08:36:22 AM »
I don't expect the band to last *too* much longer... As in - up to ten years -  but not much more...

But I would be ok with one really oddball album every 3 albums with ADTOE style safer ones in between...

Offline Renzo

  • Daryus
  • Posts: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7596 on: April 07, 2017, 01:28:52 PM »
Well in a recent interview, where JP talked about the possibility of a solo album, he also said that DT14 will be a "probably more traditional DT, definitely heavy inspired by the band's signature sound."

I still wonder how it will sound with an 8 string guitar..

Offline Scottjf8

  • Posts: 127
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7597 on: April 07, 2017, 01:32:07 PM »
I don't expect the band to last *too* much longer... As in - up to ten years -  but not much more...

But I would be ok with one really oddball album every 3 albums with ADTOE style safer ones in between...

I hope you're wrong, but I don't see JLBs voice lasting another 10 years or more.

Offline Kotowboy

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24965
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7598 on: April 07, 2017, 01:33:45 PM »
Both Johns are 50 soon and Mike & James are there already. Jordan is 60.

In 10 years they'll all be at least 60 with Jordan 70  and their music is very demanding.

Offline Prog Snob

  • Posts: 16665
  • Gender: Male
  • Truth is not for all men, only those who seek it.
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7599 on: April 07, 2017, 02:00:17 PM »
Jordan is a wizard. He doesn't age like the others do.

Offline bosk1

  • Bow down to Boskaryus
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3893
  • Shopping Cart Apologist
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7600 on: April 07, 2017, 04:12:29 PM »
I wouldn't worry about Jordan overstaying his ability to play the songs anyway.  A wizard is never late.  Nor is he early.  He arrives precisely when he means to.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26394
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7601 on: April 07, 2017, 04:32:26 PM »
:lol

Nice one.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Scottjf8

  • Posts: 127
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7602 on: April 08, 2017, 10:26:42 PM »
Jordan is 60?!?!?!??

Damn he aged very well...

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 1307
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7603 on: April 09, 2017, 06:48:32 PM »
I don't expect the band to last *too* much longer... As in - up to ten years -  but not much more...

But I would be ok with one really oddball album every 3 albums with ADTOE style safer ones in between...

I hope you're wrong, but I don't see JLBs voice lasting another 10 years or more.

Both Johns are 50 soon and Mike & James are there already. Jordan is 60.

In 10 years they'll all be at least 60 with Jordan 70  and their music is very demanding.

I have said this on other threads before, but I think neither James or Jordan will stay untill the very end of the band.

Why?

James: his voice will eventually need a big rest and that would prevent him from touring too much.

Jordan: He's over 60, so I give him another 5 or 6 years with DT untill he decides to retire from the band to make some other kind of music.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 10:04:05 PM by gzarruk »
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26394
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7604 on: April 09, 2017, 07:58:09 PM »
http://www.ticketmaster.nl/artist/dream-theater-tickets/1212

They canceled the upcoming Amsterdam gig and moved it to Tilburg, into a much smaller venue.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Sycsa

  • Posts: 1825
  • Gender: Male
  • The Strong, Silent Type
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7605 on: April 10, 2017, 10:37:55 PM »
Is the DT subforum dying? Hardly any posts for the last 3 days.


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Offline Shooters1221

  • Posts: 259
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7606 on: April 11, 2017, 05:40:04 AM »
Is the DT subforum dying? Hardly any posts for the last 3 days.

Yeah, it's that slow period when no new info and latest release is over a year old. I would assume this happens on other boards as well.

Offline ReaperKK

  • Sweeter After Difficulty
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10871
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7607 on: April 11, 2017, 06:34:07 AM »
Need MP to make some posts to drum up some activity here.

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4626
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7608 on: April 11, 2017, 07:01:09 AM »
Need MP to make some posts to drum up some activity here.

 :lol Pretty much.

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Whiskey Bent and Hell Bound
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 40294
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Dad 1943-2010
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7609 on: April 11, 2017, 08:43:45 AM »
It will be pretty slow for most of the rest of they year on this side, with the band not even writing new material until 2018.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline cfmoran13

  • Posts: 702
  • Gender: Male
    • My trading website
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7610 on: April 11, 2017, 09:14:56 AM »
I really wish that DT would use an outside producer for the next album.  I know that they weren't exactly thrilled with the resulting album from their last time in the studio with someone else producing.  But, I think Petrucci is a little too close at this point and has been for a while.  I feel an outside producer would do them well.

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 5357
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7611 on: April 11, 2017, 09:33:08 AM »
At this point in time, I think the "outside producer = bad" point of view is moot.

The outside produced himself didn't mess up the Falling Into Infinity album, the label influence did. They wanted a certain kind of album and for the record not even the entire band was strongly against that, Petrucci welcomed the idea. They were still a young band and they did not have the creative freedom they have now.

I understand them being "scarred" by the experience *at the time*, but 20 years later, no way in hell an outside producer translates into them being forced at a metaphoric gunpoint to write short radio hits.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4626
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7612 on: April 11, 2017, 11:01:00 AM »
I understand them being "scarred" by the experience *at the time*, but 20 years later, no way in hell an outside producer translates into them being forced at a metaphoric gunpoint to write short radio hits.

I agree. So what exactly do you think an outside producer would bring to the table then? More on the arrangement side or the production side? Little of both?

Offline Sycsa

  • Posts: 1825
  • Gender: Male
  • The Strong, Silent Type
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7613 on: April 11, 2017, 11:09:09 AM »
The next album desperately needs a good drum sound. ADTOE was weak, DT12 was bad all around, TA would have been OK, if it wasn't for the snare (which is the most important part of the whole kit anyway). Feels like this is the last chance for MM. 


Sycsa is perhaps the most brilliant and insightful man I have ever encountered.

Offline Nic35

  • Which seat can I take =/ ?
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 1093
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7614 on: April 11, 2017, 12:58:45 PM »
The cover album of the BC&SL special edition is the best album they have released since SDOIT.
Jesus Christ himself* comes down amidst a choir of 2 billion angels singing Handel's Hallelujah chorus. As KrotchRaut shred randomly on guitars made of dragon bones using picks made from God's kidney stones, Jesus heals a blind woman who promptly gives birth onstage to a creation of pure light.

*Yes, Jesus Christ himself. Nothing less will do.

Offline cfmoran13

  • Posts: 702
  • Gender: Male
    • My trading website
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7615 on: April 11, 2017, 01:22:18 PM »
I understand them being "scarred" by the experience *at the time*, but 20 years later, no way in hell an outside producer translates into them being forced at a metaphoric gunpoint to write short radio hits.

I agree. So what exactly do you think an outside producer would bring to the table then? More on the arrangement side or the production side? Little of both?

Hopefully, a little bit of both.  Basically, just looking for a little more objectivity.  "The guitars (or keyboards) need to be a little further back in the mix."  "That drum sound is horrible."  "Does that song really need three 2-minute long instrumental sections?"

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 1178
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7616 on: April 11, 2017, 02:44:23 PM »
The cover album of the BC&SL special edition is the best album they have released since SDOIT.

Eh, no thanks. I like the song selection and the performance are fine, but there's something about the BC&SL production applied to those standards that just leaves me a little cold. Would much rather listen to the originals of nearly all those songs.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26394
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7617 on: April 11, 2017, 05:56:51 PM »
Hopefully, a little bit of both.  Basically, just looking for a little more objectivity.  "The guitars (or keyboards) need to be a little further back in the mix."  "That drum sound is horrible."  "Does that song really need three 2-minute long instrumental sections?"

I think for any of those above, they were conscious choices by JP. Chycki clearly knows how to get a great drum sound, if you listen to any of his interviews, the guy knows what he's doing. Meaning, the drums sound the way because JP wanted them to.
Same with the 2-minute instrumental sections, or the overall mix. JP is the producer, and he will have directed the guys.
Tldr, you actually want less JP. The funny thing is, I actually don't disagree with any of your "requests", but I don't know who else would, or could, step up. An outside producer would essentially have to exert more power than any of the other DT members have in the last 5 years. Not gonna happen.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 1307
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7618 on: April 11, 2017, 10:47:25 PM »
Hopefully, a little bit of both.  Basically, just looking for a little more objectivity.  "The guitars (or keyboards) need to be a little further back in the mix."  "That drum sound is horrible."  "Does that song really need three 2-minute long instrumental sections?"

I think for any of those above, they were conscious choices by JP. Chycki clearly knows how to get a great drum sound, if you listen to any of his interviews, the guy knows what he's doing. Meaning, the drums sound the way because JP wanted them to.
Same with the 2-minute instrumental sections, or the overall mix. JP is the producer, and he will have directed the guys.
Tldr, you actually want less JP. The funny thing is, I actually don't disagree with any of your "requests", but I don't know who else would, or could, step up. An outside producer would essentially have to exert more power than any of the other DT members have in the last 5 years. Not gonna happen.

Rumbo is right with these. Chycki (and any other mixer/engineer) will get the sound the producer asks for. At the end of the day, that's what he gets paid for, to make things sound the way the producer (JP) wants things to sound.

About the looong instrumental sections, they've trimmed a lot of that in the last 3 albums and the songs have been more concise. That was a problem, imo, on the era between TOT - BC&SL.

Commenting on the external producer case, getting a sole external producer like they had in the past (Kevin Shirley, for example) is never gonna happen, that's for sure. What we can hope for is that they get someone to co-produce the albums with JP, because, let's be honest, it's not like JP is gonna leave the production duties anytime soon, but we can, hopefully, get someone who is experienced enough and respected by JP and the rest of the band, so he can give some input into the direction the albums should go, specially in the sound/mix aspects of the album production.
That way, we could have JP taking care of the musical side of things, while the co-producer could focus on getting a better sound and feel for the album. That's what I see could happen in the future.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3512
  • Gender: Male
  • (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7619 on: April 11, 2017, 10:56:33 PM »
It is too bad that the negative experience with FII turned them off from outside producers completely. I can't see how allowing an external voice can ever be a bad thing. The difference is now DT is in a position where they don't necessarily have to take that advice, so they can still do what they want in the end. There would never be a repeat of the FII situation.
You are the J.R.R. Tolkien of DTF

Offline Kotowboy

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24965
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7620 on: April 12, 2017, 12:51:12 AM »
Yeah Paolo from Trivium tweeted to someone who said : I hope on your next album :soon: don't tell you what to play again...

Paolo : Roadrunner have never told us what to play. We are free to make the albums we want.

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 4626
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7621 on: April 12, 2017, 07:00:54 AM »
Hopefully, a little bit of both.  Basically, just looking for a little more objectivity.  "The guitars (or keyboards) need to be a little further back in the mix."  "That drum sound is horrible."  "Does that song really need three 2-minute long instrumental sections?"

I think for any of those above, they were conscious choices by JP. Chycki clearly knows how to get a great drum sound, if you listen to any of his interviews, the guy knows what he's doing. Meaning, the drums sound the way because JP wanted them to.
Same with the 2-minute instrumental sections, or the overall mix. JP is the producer, and he will have directed the guys.
Tldr, you actually want less JP. The funny thing is, I actually don't disagree with any of your "requests", but I don't know who else would, or could, step up. An outside producer would essentially have to exert more power than any of the other DT members have in the last 5 years. Not gonna happen.

I agree to an extent. I think that's why JP and MP co-producing worked well. Two different voices. Even if they brought someone in from the outside to co-produce with JP, I think it would be a good challenge for him personally and the band as a whole.

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 1307
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7622 on: April 12, 2017, 11:38:48 AM »
Yeah Paolo from Trivium tweeted to someone who said : I hope on your next album :soon: don't tell you what to play again...

Paolo : Roadrunner have never told us what to play. We are free to make the albums we want.

Just an off topic question, but does anybody know when does the Roadrunner contract expire? The've released a couple albums since renewing it (DT12 and TA), so they probably have, what, another studio release with RR?I've been wondering this for months  :huh:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 1178
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7623 on: April 12, 2017, 01:27:58 PM »
Yeah Paolo from Trivium tweeted to someone who said : I hope on your next album :soon: don't tell you what to play again...

Paolo : Roadrunner have never told us what to play. We are free to make the albums we want.

Just an off topic question, but does anybody know when does the Roadrunner contract expire? The've released a couple albums since renewing it (DT12 and TA), so they probably have, what, another studio release with RR?I've been wondering this for months  :huh:

I think DT like the big label treatment, regardless of the drawbacks. Roadrunner are 100% owned by Warner Music Group, so I doubt that DT could go much bigger than that if they wanted to. And I don't think creative control is an issue for them at RR. If anything, The Astonishing is an indication that there is absolutely no one at Roadrunner telling DT they can't do something  :lol

Offline gzarruk

  • Posts: 1307
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7624 on: April 12, 2017, 02:04:48 PM »
I think DT like the big label treatment, regardless of the drawbacks. Roadrunner are 100% owned by Warner Music Group, so I doubt that DT could go much bigger than that if they wanted to. And I don't think creative control is an issue for them at RR. If anything, The Astonishing is an indication that there is absolutely no one at Roadrunner telling DT they can't do something  :lol

Well, that's a very good point  :lol
I do remember some people having issues with the deluxe edition of TA and all the extra stuff that came with it, like the NOMAC figure and the loooooong wait people had to endure before their pre orders arrived, for example. These things weren't a DT fault, but rather bad management from the label. They could take these things in consideration for the next album. Also, it's DT we're talking about, they could sign with almost every label out there (according to the genere, of course) and still get 100% creative control on their albums  :P
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Scottjf8

  • Posts: 127
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7625 on: April 13, 2017, 12:17:33 AM »
I hate the falsetto thing that MP does at the end of Schmedley Wilcox during the end of Octavarium. It ruins a great song.

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3512
  • Gender: Male
  • (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7626 on: April 13, 2017, 12:45:38 AM »
I really don't think that's controversial. :lol:
You are the J.R.R. Tolkien of DTF

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 8085
  • Gender: Male
  • Do a nice one for grandma
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7627 on: April 13, 2017, 01:03:31 AM »
The Astonshing is the best DT album.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

I Love You...Poppin Fresh

Offline Kotowboy

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24965
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7628 on: April 13, 2017, 02:26:57 AM »
I really don't think that's controversial. :lol:

Offline Prog Snob

  • Posts: 16665
  • Gender: Male
  • Truth is not for all men, only those who seek it.
Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #7629 on: April 13, 2017, 05:03:28 AM »
I hate the falsetto thing that MP does at the end of Schmedley Wilcox during the end of Octavarium. It ruins a great song.

Nothing discussing MP's wealth of vocal abilities is controversial.