Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, take the description of JP with a grain of salt. He might actually be just messing with the interviewer with that description because the song's lyrics is the most anti-stadium rock ever.

"You are caught up in your gravity
Glorifying stardom
Singing your own praise."

Obviously not an anthem. 

Yeah, but he writes lyrics after composing the music, so his mentality when writing the music may not have been the same as when writing the lyrics. Although if the music spoke to him in such a way as to write lyrics like these, he should have noticed that his vision for this song did not go as planned, lol.

[erwinrafael]

I think what he described as arena-rock like is the major riff only, not the song itself, which he described as a bit dark.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think what he described as arena-rock like is the major riff only, not the song itself, which he described as a bit dark.

Even if that's the case, considering that the main riff starts out the song, it really didn't have that kind of an effect on me. Like I said, I was expecting something more along the lines of About To Crash Reprise, or something similar to that. Just something that immediately instills excitement.

[erwinrafael]

About to Crash Reprise is a different animal.  I believe JP was clear that what he was aiming for was like Rush's Limelight and Spirit of the Radio.

[TheGreatPretender]

So basically, we should never expect JP to accomplish what he's aiming for? 

[erwinrafael]

So basically, we should never expect JP to accomplish what he's aiming for? 

Not really. Because, to my ears, his intro to TLG accomplishes just the same effect as the major riff of those two Rush songs which he mentioned as benchmarks. About To Crash Reprise, again, is different.

[TheGreatPretender]

Not really. Because, to my ears, his intro to TLG accomplishes just the same effect as the major riff of those two Rush songs which he mentioned as benchmarks. About To Crash Reprise, again, is different.

Oh sorry, I thought you meant that his goal with About to Crash reprise was being compared to those two Rush songs.
Yeah, I guess you're right. But still, the moment he said, "Stadium Rock", I immediately imagined riffage similar to Bon Jovi or something.

[erwinrafael]

Here's an excerpt from one of the interviews:

"‘The Looking Glass‘ is generating quite a few grins, just because of what feels like an unmistakable nod to Rush. If you guys ever wanted to tour a tribute to ‘80s Rush, I think that track might demonstrate that you could pull it off.

Oh, cool! Rush is one of the common denominators in our band as far as a band that everybody loves and grew up with and was a big influence. You know, Alex has this unbelievable gift for creating these big arena rock guitar riffs that are in a major key and somehow just get the audience pumped from the first note. Things like ‘The Spirit of Radio’ and ‘Limelight’ and you name it — it’s a challenge to do that, because it’s not easy and you want it to be original and unique and have that kind of conviction and power."

[TheGreatPretender]

The one I got goes, "And the attitude behind that song was to create a big kind of arena rock powerful riff that was in a major key."
So like I said, as soon as I heard that, I was expecting something that really got my energy going, and in the case of those Rush songs, they do manage to do that, although on a smaller level than actual Arena rock.

[Mosh]

Way too much weight being put on JP's words here. I don't care what he said about TLG, for me it's a pretty enjoyable song "stadium anthem" or not. Artists are always going to have a somewhat weird view on their own work. I think the best course of action is to take their descriptions with a grain of salt.

[hefdaddy42]

I saw that quote, and listened to the song, and it fits, for me.

I just don't like the song all that much.  Definitely the least of the album.

[TheGreatPretender]

Way too much weight being put on JP's words here. I don't care what he said about TLG, for me it's a pretty enjoyable song "stadium anthem" or not. Artists are always going to have a somewhat weird view on their own work. I think the best course of action is to take their descriptions with a grain of salt.

I guess I'll have to keep that in mind from now on. But it's still not nearly as bad as when Mike Portnoy described BC&SL as... What did he say? Something along the lines of it's like having A Change of Seasons, Octavarium, Learning to Live, Pull Me Under and The Glass Prison all on one album. Now THAT'S setting people up for one major letdown.

[mrbigbri]

- I found it annoying on the last tour how James tried to sing the last verse of Space Dye Vest all "high".  Would have been much cooler to sing it like he originally did.

- Jordan's added solo over the last riff in The Mirror is un-needed and takes away from the heaviness of that powerful riff

Brian

[abydos]

I don't think those are very controversial. Especially the way Jordan butchers The Mirror (and he has been doing so for years). That part just sounds like he's facerolling on the keyboard. But I could be wrong.

Did you see SDV live or just watched on Youtube and BTFW? Initially I thought it was pretty bad too, but when I saw it I changed my mind. It fit very well with the energy of the show prior, very much up in your face.

Also, welcome!

[TheGreatPretender]

Naw, I love Jordans keyboard stuff at the end of The Mirror. The original was okay for the album, but I don't think it's as interesting, especially in a live setting.

And the current live version of Space-Dye Vest kicks ass! 

[Mosh]

Way too much weight being put on JP's words here. I don't care what he said about TLG, for me it's a pretty enjoyable song "stadium anthem" or not. Artists are always going to have a somewhat weird view on their own work. I think the best course of action is to take their descriptions with a grain of salt.

I guess I'll have to keep that in mind from now on. But it's still not nearly as bad as when Mike Portnoy described BC&SL as... What did he say? Something along the lines of it's like having A Change of Seasons, Octavarium, Learning to Live, Pull Me Under and The Glass Prison all on one album. Now THAT'S setting people up for one major letdown.

Yea, exactly. And he probably genuinely believed that. When you're that close to the work it's impossible to hear it the way an outsider would.

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't care! I want my DT stadium rock anthem! 

[rumborak]

My controversial opinion of the day would be, I'm not sure how good it is for James (and DT in extension) to participate in something like that "Metal All-Stars". The whole thing just has a bit of a has-been feeling to it, and the videos kinda show third-class talent to be standing on stage. James is by no means third-class, but there is a danger of association I think.

[TheGreatPretender]

My controversial opinion of the day would be, I'm not sure how good it is for James (and DT in extension) to participate in something like that "Metal All-Stars". The whole thing just has a bit of a has-been feeling to it, and the videos kinda show third-class talent to be standing on stage. James is by no means third-class, but there is a danger of association I think.

Has he ever done it before? I mean, maybe he didn't know what he was getting himself into.

[rumborak]

Not to my knowledge, no. He's done other non-DT live stuff before (e.g. like singing opera) but that always felt like part of his solo work. This thing feels a lot like MP's "Metal Allegiance", which feels equally has-been.

[TheGreatPretender]

The thing is, this thing has some young guns on it too. Kobra Paige for example is really young, and her band's career is just starting to take off. Honestly, it's not the idea of the show itself that's bad, its (obviously) the execution. Whoever organized it, really needed to set aside more rehearsal time, if that's even possible.

[?]

My controversial opinion of the day would be, I'm not sure how good it is for James (and DT in extension) to participate in something like that "Metal All-Stars". The whole thing just has a bit of a has-been feeling to it, and the videos kinda show third-class talent to be standing on stage. James is by no means third-class, but there is a danger of association I think.

I'm not worried about James' reputation, but I thought it was weird for him to take part in this. He's the singer of an active relevant band that still tours the world and brings in a comfortable amount of income, while most of the musicians involved are ex-members of 80s bands whose glory days are behind and who do these kinds of tours for the paycheck.

- I found it annoying on the last tour how James tried to sing the last verse of Space Dye Vest all "high".  Would have been much cooler to sing it like he originally did.

- Jordan's added solo over the last riff in The Mirror is un-needed and takes away from the heaviness of that powerful riff

I was ok with the changes in S-DV, but I agree that the extra solo in The Mirror is pointless. It doesn't ruin the song for me, but it's just unnecessary when there already is a good keyboard part in the outro.

[aprilethereal]

I love the changes they did to SDV this tour, the studio version is perfect as a closer to the album whereas the live version manages to create the same atmosphere while being much more energetic and fitting for a live show. Both are perfect for their context.

[TAC]

My controversial opinion of the day would be, I'm not sure how good it is for James (and DT in extension) to participate in something like that "Metal All-Stars". The whole thing just has a bit of a has-been feeling to it, and the videos kinda show third-class talent to be standing on stage. James is by no means third-class, but there is a danger of association I think.

No question. I feel the same way. He would've been better served to do a solo tour, no?

[TheGreatPretender]

No question. I feel the same way. He would've been better served to do a solo tour, no?

While it probably wouldn't have gotten as much of a crowd, at least it wouldn't hurt. Honestly, because of these musicians, I highly doubt anyone is going to say, "Man, I should check his album out."

[Rodni Demental]

Well, take the description of JP with a grain of salt. He might actually be just messing with the interviewer with that description because the song's lyrics is the most anti-stadium rock ever.

"You are caught up in your gravity
Glorifying stardom
Singing your own praise."

Obviously not an anthem. 

Well, if he did write those lyrics with the original premise in mind, then it'd have to deliberately have been written ironically. Funnily enough Limelight as fairly ironic lyrics from Peart's point of view.

Not really. Because, to my ears, his intro to TLG accomplishes just the same effect as the major riff of those two Rush songs which he mentioned as benchmarks. About To Crash Reprise, again, is different.

I agree it's different, but I would put About to Crash Reprise riff in a similar category to The Looking Glass at least by DT standards. Major riffage and whatnot. But I always considered the ATC(r) to remind me more of a Van Halen riff actually.

- I found it annoying on the last tour how James tried to sing the last verse of Space Dye Vest all "high".  Would have been much cooler to sing it like he originally did.

I was iffy on this at first too but it grew on me. Reminds me of what they did with The Silent Man back in 95 with the 'electric' version and Hollow years they did a similar thing with the more 'epic' final chorus. I think it works for SDV in the live enviroment.

[XB0BX]

I agree it's different, but I would put About to Crash Reprise riff in a similar category to The Looking Glass at least by DT standards. Major riffage and whatnot. But I always considered the ATC(r) to remind me more of a Van Halen riff actually.

About to Crash is totally inspired by Grand Finale from 2112.

[TheGreatPretender]

One opinion I came up with is that there are certain aspects where I feel like the entire band (as people) really lack character. Re-reading the book, I couldn't help but notice it, and it's been bothering me since I heard that Portnoy wanted to come back into the band.
They never deal with these things in person. It feels like they're afraid of confrontation. When it comes to firing their members (all the way back to their 1980s days), they've either gotten their managers to do it, or they've done it over the phone. Even when it came time to give LaBrie that ultimatum in 2002, they did it over the phone, instead of in person. And when Portnoy asked to come back into the band, he said that it were DT's attorneys that had to tell him that he can't come back.
I think it really shows a lack of character on their part. Yes, these kinds of things can be difficult, and uncomfortable, but you man up and you do it! You sit down, you look the person in the eye, and you tell them how it is. Personally, I think that's the only way to do it, and anything less is a bit disrespectful.

[TheCountOfNYC]

One opinion I came up with is that there are certain aspects where I feel like the entire band (as people) really lack character. Re-reading the book, I couldn't help but notice it, and it's been bothering me since I heard that Portnoy wanted to come back into the band.
They never deal with these things in person. It feels like they're afraid of confrontation. When it comes to firing their members (all the way back to their 1980s days), they've either gotten their managers to do it, or they've done it over the phone. Even when it came time to give LaBrie that ultimatum in 2002, they did it over the phone, instead of in person. And when Portnoy asked to come back into the band, he said that it were DT's attorneys that had to tell him that he can't come back.
I think it really shows a lack of character on their part. Yes, these kinds of things can be difficult, and uncomfortable, but you man up and you do it! You sit down, you look the person in the eye, and you tell them how it is. Personally, I think that's the only way to do it, and anything less is a bit disrespectful.

With James and Derek, it had to do with not living in the same place. I know with Derek they decided it was less awkward to do it over conference call than have him fly out from LA to NYC just to get fired and have to fly back. To make James come down from Toronto, while not as far, would have been silly too. Those were actually done for the convenience of Derek and James. As for Mike's situation, the reason he couldn't come back was because Mangini had already signed his contract. The attorneys weren't likely filling Portnoy in on the legal aspects that the band probably couldn't explain as well.

[BlobVanDam]

I agree, it's not always practical to meet in person. I think doing it over the phone is a perfectly reasonable way to do these things, especially when the alternative is making someone take a long commute just to give them crap news.
Doing it via text/email would be bad, but phone is fine in these situations.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, if we're talking like, from Canada, like LaBrie, maybe that is a bit excessive, but guys like Charlie Dominici, who lived in the same general area as them, there was no reason why they couldn't have done it in person. Or at least did it themselves, not ask their manager to.

With Derek, they already knew they were going to fire him even as they still performed with him, so they could've had the talk after the last show they did, before dispersing.

As for Portnoy, that's still not an excuse. They could've had their attorneys present, or had them follow up with the details later, but for someone like Petrucci, to not be able to tell Portnoy personally, "Listen man, you know you're my brother, but here's the situation.." is pretty weak.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know, it's all too easy for us to criticize as couch coaches, but we only know a fraction of all of what happened with the MP split, so I'm not going to judge anyone for it. I think DT handled the situation about as best they could under the circumstances, based on what little we know.
In the case of Charlie, that was perhaps a little weak, but they were young and new to the whole thing. I can excuse them for that one.

[KevShmev]

IIRC, Portnoy quit over the phone, not in person, so if he couldn't extend the courtesy of telling guys he had been in a band with for decades that he was leaving, then why did he deserve the courtesy of them telling him in person that he couldn't come back?

[TheGreatPretender]

In the case of Charlie, that was perhaps a little weak, but they were young and new to the whole thing. I can excuse them for that one.

Meh. Back when I was in my former band, and we had to fire one of our members, we did it ourselves, to his face, difficult as it was. I just think it's the only right thing to do, unless you're firing someone you KNOW has a temper and might start a fight. And even then, Metallica had the balls to fire Dave Mustaine in person.

IIRC, Portnoy quit over the phone, not in person, so if he couldn't extend the courtesy of telling guys he had been in a band with for decades that he was leaving, then why did he deserve the courtesy of them telling him in person that he couldn't come back?

But at least he said it himself, to them, right? Not through third parties?

But you are right, and when I'm talking about them firing Charlie, or Derek, or whatever, Portnoy is included in my criticism as well.

[Calvin6s]

Even when it came time to give LaBrie that ultimatum in 2002, they did it over the phone, instead of in person.

I have no idea what is being talked about here.  I guess I have to buy the book.

And there is my controversial opinion about the band.  Outside their music, they seem like boring people.  So even with this 2002 teaser, I probably still won't buy the book.