Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 979544 times)

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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5075 on: July 23, 2014, 03:27:41 PM »
Alright, here's some controversy: I really really like the extended version of surrounded, found on CiM. Yeah, the vocals aren't top-notch, and I don't like the main solo-part that much (that unison in particular), but I love how everything builds up, and that extended guitar solo is a thing of beauty. The way it just builds and builds from the simple Sugar Mice motif until it climaxes in the Mother solo is great, and it makes the transition into the last part ("I know it's easier") a lot smoother, in my opinion - I always found that one the slightest bit clunky... not bad, but not quite as good as some other transitions that I know DT are capable of.

How much of that was the Marillion cover and how much of it was just extended instrumental?
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Offline genome

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5076 on: July 23, 2014, 03:35:44 PM »
I think it was just the one line that JLB sang that was the reference to Sugar Mice. The rest was just a jam around G/C chords.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5077 on: July 23, 2014, 09:08:13 PM »
Alright, here's some controversy: I really really like the extended version of surrounded, found on CiM. Yeah, the vocals aren't top-notch, and I don't like the main solo-part that much (that unison in particular), but I love how everything builds up, and that extended guitar solo is a thing of beauty. The way it just builds and builds from the simple Sugar Mice motif until it climaxes in the Mother solo is great, and it makes the transition into the last part ("I know it's easier") a lot smoother, in my opinion - I always found that one the slightest bit clunky... not bad, but not quite as good as some other transitions that I know DT are capable of.

How much of that was the Marillion cover and how much of it was just extended instrumental?

The opening of the guitar solo is basically the main guitar motif of Sugar Mice (check out here), and it builds on that during at least the first half of the solo, where that guitar motif is the centrepiece of the solo. Plus, of course, that whole "I know what I want" part, that's lifted straight from Sugar Mice.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5078 on: July 23, 2014, 09:33:33 PM »
The opening of the guitar solo is basically the main guitar motif of Sugar Mice (check out here), and it builds on that during at least the first half of the solo, where that guitar motif is the centrepiece of the solo. Plus, of course, that whole "I know what I want" part, that's lifted straight from Sugar Mice.

Very cool.  :tup
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5079 on: July 26, 2014, 08:08:43 AM »
Controversial opinion...

I am loving the current lineup and would not want to see MM leave in favor of MP coming back. They all seem like they are having more fun on stage now, and the music is re energized as well!
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5080 on: July 26, 2014, 09:03:03 AM »
Controversial opinion...

I am loving the current lineup and would not want to see MM leave in favor of MP coming back. They all seem like they are having more fun on stage now, and the music is re energized as well!

I'm not sure how controversial that is. I'm quite sure that a lot of, if not most DT fans feel the same way.
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Offline Tick

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5081 on: July 26, 2014, 09:42:48 AM »
Controversial opinion...

I am loving the current lineup and would not want to see MM leave in favor of MP coming back. They all seem like they are having more fun on stage now, and the music is re energized as well!

I'm not sure how controversial that is. I'm quite sure that a lot of, if not most DT fans feel the same way.
Really? I didn't think that was the case. Ok, then....good to hear!
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Offline tiagodon

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5082 on: July 26, 2014, 05:21:39 PM »
Controversial opinion...

I am loving the current lineup and would not want to see MM leave in favor of MP coming back. They all seem like they are having more fun on stage now, and the music is re energized as well!

I'm not sure how controversial that is. I'm quite sure that a lot of, if not most DT fans feel the same way.

I do not.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5083 on: July 26, 2014, 05:23:37 PM »
"How's that for a slice of fried gold?"

Offline Rodni Demental

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5084 on: July 26, 2014, 06:54:17 PM »
I really really like the extended version of surrounded, found on CiM. Yeah, the vocals aren't top-notch, and I don't like the main solo-part that much (that unison in particular), but I love how everything builds up, and that extended guitar solo is a thing of beauty.

Try I&W 15th Anniversary version, it's extended like the other performances in '07 but has much better vocal performance. Actually, vocals on all songs are pretty top notch on that CD (including Take The Time), especially when comparing to Chaos in Motion...

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5085 on: July 26, 2014, 07:07:21 PM »
Not sure if all of these are controversial, but lets go:

In the Presence of Enemies Part 1 is the best opener on any DT album (even though Systematic Chaos as a whole is one of their worst albums)

As much as I don't like the album, Constant Motion is actually not a bad song. It's actually my most listened to DT-song, and it has a pretty catchy chorus. Not saying it's the best or anything, but if DT wanted to make a Metallica-sounding single with it, they did a pretty good job IMO

Breaking All Illusions is the best +10 minute song since 6DOIT (yes, that means I hold it even higher than Octavarium)

If you chose to count it as one song, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is the best DT epic IMO

While the songs individually might not all be up among DT's best, the twelve step suite is actually one of the more interesting things they've done

Train of Thought is not as bad as the reputation it has gotten, and with the exception of ADTOE, it's the best album to have come out of DT's last 11 years

Falling Into Infinity is despite of label interference one of the better DT albums. I would rank it at nr5. It might have some lame attempts at writing radio hits, but there's also several really great tracks like "Lines in the Sand" and "Trial of Tears"

Disappear is the most emotional, and also the best DT song

Offline chaossystem

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5086 on: July 26, 2014, 08:29:07 PM »
Hopefully I'll be able to post more on here at later times, but I want to begin by saying that I think "Falling Into Infinity" is one of the most UNDER-rated albums ever! I like variety, and this disc has tons of it.  I thought that was what made us fans to begin with! It has songs that are "rockers" such as "burning My Soul" and "just Let Me Breathe," and "epics" such as "Lines in the Sand" and "Trial of Tears" "ballads" like DER!-"Hollow Years," "funky" songs like "new Millennium" and "You Not Me." What's not to Like? There SHOULD be at least one or two songs on this album that all the DT audiance should like!
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Offline SuperTaco

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5087 on: July 26, 2014, 08:39:34 PM »
It's the guitaring and structure of the song more than anything. And it's perhaps just a stylistic influence creeping through rather than a suitable definition for the song. I'm surprised you havnt at least heard someone mention These Walls might have been 'nu-metal influenced' since 2005 considering that albums seems to be all about the references and subtle tributes to various influences. For the record, These Walls tends to remind me of From The Inside by LP if it's a song anyone is familiar with.

I quoted you just to say that "From The Inside" is a great song from a great album that has huge sentimental value for me :) Same with Hybrid Theory. They got me through some really hard times.

As for a controversial opinion... I never once thought that Charlies vocals were out of place on WDADU. I do remember being surprised at hearing a different singer when I listened to it for the first time, but I got used to it. WDADU is a gem in my eyes, and I wouldn't change anything about it. For me, it really represents a moment in time. A time when these guys were trying to seriously make it in the music business while still having a ton of youthful energy. They were very talented, but also raw in their abilities. It's hard to explain in depth but there are many reasons that make it my favorite DT album ever.

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5088 on: July 26, 2014, 08:52:34 PM »
My controversial opinion would be that LMR is Jordan's strongest album in a long time. It has an LTE feel to it, and just an ease of play that makes you realize that that kind of music is his home turf.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5089 on: July 26, 2014, 08:56:19 PM »


As much as I don't like the album, Constant Motion is actually not a bad song. It's actually my most listened to DT-song, and it has a pretty catchy chorus. Not saying it's the best or anything, but if DT wanted to make a Metallica-sounding single with it, they did a pretty good job IMO

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5090 on: July 26, 2014, 10:55:35 PM »
My controversial opinion would be that LMR is Jordan's strongest album in a long time. It has an LTE feel to it, and just an ease of play that makes you realize that that kind of music is his home turf.

While I didn't really like the music much, I agree. The LTE vibe is obvious, and it reminded me that there's a whole side of JR that's almost non-existent in modern DT, to their detriment.
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Offline nikatapi

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5091 on: July 27, 2014, 03:52:05 AM »
My controversial opinion would be that LMR is Jordan's strongest album in a long time. It has an LTE feel to it, and just an ease of play that makes you realize that that kind of music is his home turf.

I agree, some of his parts are very fun, creative and uplifting, something that has been missing for a while from DT (with the exception of TCOT and parts of ADTOE).

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5092 on: July 27, 2014, 09:58:57 AM »
On Falling Into Infinity: it would definitely be one of my favorites if it was more consistent. Two of my bottom three DT songs are on this record. However, it also has some of the highest high points of any DT album; Trial of Tears and Peruvian Skies are some of the best songs the band has written. The former is my second favorite song from the current setlist, and was the best part of the concert I saw in April.

Systematic Chaos is, from what I have seen so far on these forums, highly underrated. While it does not breach my top 5 DT albums, it is not too far removed from them, and is their best album since Train of Thought. I prefer the silly fantasy lyrics on the album to most DT lyrics. Even though I only truly love three of the seven songs on SC, those three songs make up well over half of its runtime. I also like MP's backing vocals on this album much more than on Black Clouds, though I consider the chorus of The Count of Tuscany to be the best example of them. They are sorely missed on the Happy Holidays version of the song.
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Offline Rodni Demental

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5093 on: July 27, 2014, 06:20:22 PM »
It's the guitaring and structure of the song more than anything. And it's perhaps just a stylistic influence creeping through rather than a suitable definition for the song. I'm surprised you havnt at least heard someone mention These Walls might have been 'nu-metal influenced' since 2005 considering that albums seems to be all about the references and subtle tributes to various influences. For the record, These Walls tends to remind me of From The Inside by LP if it's a song anyone is familiar with.

I quoted you just to say that "From The Inside" is a great song from a great album that has huge sentimental value for me :) Same with Hybrid Theory. They got me through some really hard times.

As for a controversial opinion... I never once thought that Charlies vocals were out of place on WDADU. I do remember being surprised at hearing a different singer when I listened to it for the first time, but I got used to it. WDADU is a gem in my eyes, and I wouldn't change anything about it. For me, it really represents a moment in time. A time when these guys were trying to seriously make it in the music business while still having a ton of youthful energy. They were very talented, but also raw in their abilities. It's hard to explain in depth but there are many reasons that make it my favorite DT album ever.

Yes! From The Inside is one of my favorites, I remember when I saw them live back in '07, they used that song about 4 or 5 songs into the set, to kick in the big screen and crazy light show; after the short intro build up the curtains fell behind them as the guitars kicked in and the stage just burst into life, it was a very epic moment. They also played Minutes to Midnight songs with a bit more of an edge. More electric guitar saturation which is exactly what their newer material is missing. The new songs at the time gave a much better impression live.  :metal

Hybrid Theory and Meteora are complete classics! I'll always love them. :tup I used to be quite into LP and they're still a great live band today because they still go for that' classic rock' concert vibe of the 'good ol days'. But after the shift somewhere during or after Minutes to Midnight they lost me a little bit and I REALLY tried to like them. A Thousand Suns and Living Things had moments that almost reminded me of their old style but it was just too different overall. I know a lot of fans that had similar experiences following this band.  :xbones I'll always give them a chance if they release something new though. Curious, what are your thoughts on The Hunting Party? If you've heard it yet?

And to stay more on topic, I love WDADU aswell, it's at least as complex and intricate in it's compositions as I&W in my opinion, completely underrated and a total classic. Which is still somewhat of a controvesial opinion around here. Charlie's vocals are mostly great. Except for that really messed up part in The Killing Hand, dunno what happened there. :lol
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 06:29:30 PM by Rodni Demental »

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5094 on: July 27, 2014, 06:31:48 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5095 on: July 27, 2014, 06:33:24 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

It's definitely overrated.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5096 on: July 27, 2014, 06:34:48 PM »
It's easily my least favourite song from ADTOE.

Offline Rodni Demental

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5097 on: July 27, 2014, 06:42:58 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

 :huh: But... that Floyd style organwork, with those delicate side snare taps on the drums during one of the most epic JP guitar solos. This part should cause one to disregard any perception of the rest of the song and transform anyones view into realising it as a masterpiece. :P

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5098 on: July 27, 2014, 09:21:03 PM »
My controversial opinion would be that LMR is Jordan's strongest album in a long time. It has an LTE feel to it, and just an ease of play that makes you realize that that kind of music is his home turf.

While I didn't really like the music much, I agree. The LTE vibe is obvious, and it reminded me that there's a whole side of JR that's almost non-existent in modern DT, to their detriment.

I love LMR, and everything other word you said about it is absolutely correct.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5099 on: July 27, 2014, 09:41:32 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

 :huh: But... that Floyd style organwork, with those delicate side snare taps on the drums during one of the most epic JP guitar solos. This part should cause one to disregard any perception of the rest of the song and transform anyones view into realising it as a masterpiece. :P
Great guitar solo. Could live without the rest though. A bit of a "by the numbers" epic.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5100 on: July 27, 2014, 09:44:20 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

It's definitely overrated.

I don't think it's sub par, but I do think it's quite overrated.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5101 on: July 27, 2014, 09:49:09 PM »
Speaking of ADTOE: I think OTBOA is easily the best song on that album.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5102 on: July 27, 2014, 10:02:19 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

It's definitely overrated.

Breaking All Illusions is UNDERrated and a great song. It is, in fact, Dream Theater's best song.  :heart



Not only does it have this:

:huh: But... that Floyd style organwork, with those delicate side snare taps on the drums during one of the most epic JP guitar solos. This part should cause one to disregard any perception of the rest of the song and transform anyones view into realising it as a masterpiece. :P

But it also has 9:51. That riff.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5103 on: July 27, 2014, 11:37:54 PM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

It's definitely overrated.

I don't think it's sub par, but I do think it's quite overrated.

That. I think it's a good song overall, but not that great. It has a lot of cool little moments in there that I wish they'd expanded, but also a lot of music that doesn't do much for me.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5104 on: July 28, 2014, 01:07:53 AM »
But it also has 9:51. That riff.

I always thought the best part of the song was the one just before 9:51 (starting at 9:06). Actually, this is when i expected the song to get really good but, after 9:51, it got pretty meh  :-*
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5105 on: July 28, 2014, 03:25:24 AM »
Have I said this one before ?

Breaking All Illusions is a really sub par song.

BAI and BtS are the only redeemable parts about ADTOE imo. Pretty much all songs before them are run-of-the-mill DT songs. On the Backs of Angels is a pretty solid single though.

Offline Randaran

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5106 on: July 28, 2014, 11:23:42 AM »
Pretty much all songs before them are run-of-the-mill DT songs.

This is one of the reasons that I like ADToE so much. The songs are fairly safe while retaining a high quality. When I am trying to introduce people to DT, I show them this album first so that they can get a good impression of the band's typical sound.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5107 on: July 28, 2014, 12:39:39 PM »
I'm honestly surprised Another Day comes so low into people's I&W track-rankings. It's probably around middle of the line for me, but it's still fantastic.

Weakest song on I&W is by far and away Surrounded (which is still a great song), but that's not too controversial now is it?

The past few years Surrounded seems to be ranked a lot higher among many DTF'ers, so that's probably controversial. Another Day seems to be the most disliked, probably because it's an awesomely '80s power ballad inspired song. To me that just makes it awesomer!

I could be mistaken, but I think the open love for Surrounded in recent years stems from a couple of factors:
(1)  I think most fans probably liked it to begin with, but rank it somewhere near the middle-tier in I&W.  As such, I just don't think there was a strong motivation to discuss it.  The most-liked and least-liked songs then to draw more attention and discussion time.
(2)  The CiM version seems to have caused a lot of people to revisit the song and either be reminded of their previous feelings for the song or discover that they like it more than they thought they did. 


As for Another Day, I think you are away off base.  I disliked the song from day 1, and you know I love me some '80s power ballads.  My dislike has nothing to do with any supposed resemblance to an '80s power ballad.  I just don't like it because it isn't a very good song.  In fact, to your point, I would say it is nothing like an '80s power ballad.  Ballad?  Yes.  '80s power ballad?  Not remotely.
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Offline SuperTaco

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5108 on: July 28, 2014, 01:58:40 PM »

Yes! From The Inside is one of my favorites, I remember when I saw them live back in '07, they used that song about 4 or 5 songs into the set, to kick in the big screen and crazy light show; after the short intro build up the curtains fell behind them as the guitars kicked in and the stage just burst into life, it was a very epic moment. They also played Minutes to Midnight songs with a bit more of an edge. More electric guitar saturation which is exactly what their newer material is missing. The new songs at the time gave a much better impression live.  :metal

Hybrid Theory and Meteora are complete classics! I'll always love them. :tup I used to be quite into LP and they're still a great live band today because they still go for that' classic rock' concert vibe of the 'good ol days'. But after the shift somewhere during or after Minutes to Midnight they lost me a little bit and I REALLY tried to like them. A Thousand Suns and Living Things had moments that almost reminded me of their old style but it was just too different overall. I know a lot of fans that had similar experiences following this band.  :xbones I'll always give them a chance if they release something new though. Curious, what are your thoughts on The Hunting Party? If you've heard it yet?

And to stay more on topic, I love WDADU aswell, it's at least as complex and intricate in it's compositions as I&W in my opinion, completely underrated and a total classic. Which is still somewhat of a controvesial opinion around here. Charlie's vocals are mostly great. Except for that really messed up part in The Killing Hand, dunno what happened there. :lol

I haven't had the good fortune of being able to see them live. The Hunting Party restored my faith in the band almost completely. They can still be aggressive and that's awesome. I noticed a similarity in how they produced the guitars compared to HT/Meteora. They have that extra deep low end that really drives the sound and I missed that.

I feel somewhat embarrassed to say this, but I'm not sure what part of The Killing Hand you're mentioning. I'll have to go and listen to it again, but I haven't noticed any messed up part :P Perhaps I just enjoy the album that much.
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Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #5109 on: July 28, 2014, 09:33:11 PM »
Still very surprised by the lack of love for Another Day. :o

I agree, it sounds nothing like an '80's power ballad, but very much like a DT ballad, and one of their best at that. Very moving song imo.