Author Topic: Genesis Discography  (Read 54883 times)

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Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #140 on: November 12, 2012, 02:38:42 AM »
Steve's solo on Firth is as close to a musical orgasm I've ever gotten.
Yep, pretty much  ;D
 
So yeah, Firth of Fifth is one of my favorite songs of all time, but this album as a whole never really stood out to me as much as some of their others. Of course it's still brilliant, just not all the way through.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #141 on: November 12, 2012, 07:31:34 AM »
Whenever I look at the track list, I'm always bothered by I know what I want, More fool me and Aisle of plenty being on this record. But when I listen to it, they don't spoil my enjoyment at all - thankfully they're very short. The rest of the album is brilliant, I adore every single one of the five remaining songs.

The Battle of epping forest is one of my favorites here, it's very amusing, too bad it's getting some criticism, but it didn't stop this album from being regarded as one of the best prog rock albums of all time. And I'd also like to add that After the ordeal has such a wonderful melody, I'm overwhelmed with joy every time the guitar solo starts. That's what prog is all about, my friends. That particular section is what prog is all about. Except for the usual instrumental craziness here and there, you can't have prog without that.  ;D

One of my dearest Genesis records overall. Here's how I'd rank the songs:

1. The Cinema show
2. The Battle of epping forest
3. After the ordeal
4. Firth of fifth
5. Dancing with the moonlight knight

6. I know what I like (In your wardrobe)
7. Aisle of plenty
8. More fool me

Offline Sketchy

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #142 on: November 12, 2012, 07:36:48 AM »
I think I agree with what the Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man above me just wrote. This album has some amazing parts (Firth Of Fifth, especially the intro and the instrumental section, The Cinema Show, especially all of it, Dancing With The Moonlit Knight (what is there not to love about this) and I Know What I Like (it's a damn catchy song)), but there are also parts that I just don't love as much (More Fool Me, Battle Of Epping Forest). Don't get me wrong, I think those parts are amazing too, but they're just not as magical as the rest for some reason. That said, I have been really getting into this album of late.

But yeah, much love for the three twelve-strings on The Cinema Show. Just so damn much love.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #143 on: November 12, 2012, 08:05:18 AM »
Quite possibly one of my favorite (Top 3) Genesis albums of all time, and it has many of the recurring structure ideas of future albums, as well:
Re-introducing the opening song's themes near the end of the album, creating a bookending effect (TLLDOB, ATTOT, W&W and Duke all do this)
Putting an instrumental near the end of the album (ATOTT ends with one, W&W have 2 near the end, and Duke has Travels before the End)

This is a landmark album (and rightfully so, being a 5th album, as 5th albums are usually where a band hits its stride - Close To The Edge, A Farewell To Kings, Thick As A Brick, Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Scenes From A Memory, V, Space Revolver, etc. etc.) and this has 2 wonderfully strong mini-epics, and a pretty good longer piece (Epping Forest), which, honestly, took me a very long time to understand, let alone appreciate.

"Firth Of Fifth" and "The Cinema Show" have always been favorites of mine, while the shorter pieces are all pretty good as well. It's a strong album with a great range of highs and lows, dynamically speaking, and it will never get old for me.

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Offline ThatcrazyKISSfan

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #144 on: November 12, 2012, 08:58:25 AM »
Masterpiece.

Offline Jaq

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #145 on: November 12, 2012, 09:51:44 AM »
My earliest memory of Selling England By The Pound came, actually, from the inner sleeve of another band's album, the debut of Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. Back in the day, the inner sleeve usually was blank white unless the band was a particularly successful one, and sometimes you got lyrics or band photos. But sometimes-and I get the sense this was with reissues or later generation copies of albums, since the first ELP album came out before Selling England-the band's label would advertise other albums, with a cover gallery on one side of the inner sleeve.  As I bought the ELP album at a yard sale, I must also entertain the notion that in fact, the inner sleeve I wound up with WASN'T the inner sleeve for the ELP album, and some hapless fan had stuck the album down in whatever sleeve was handy, which is why an album from 1970 was advertising releases from 1973. We will never know, but the key point is, that was the first time I saw the cover of Selling England by the Pound, and the first real idea that Genesis had a history before Phil Collins was the singer, and it was apparently a LOT different than the band doing No Reply At All on MTV.


As I've grown older, Foxtrot became my favorite Gabriel era album, but when I was younger, and first working my way backwards through their discography, Selling England by the Pound was my favorite Gabriel era album on the strength of the longer songs. True, it wasn't until a lot later that I got the wordplay involved in many of the lyrics-acquiring some British friends helped in that regard-but pretty much from the day I bought it, I loved three of the longer songs without question. Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth, and Cinema Show would all make a Genesis top ten for me. The Battle of Epping Forest, I like, but it suffers a little from a sense of trying too hard. I've seen interviews with the band where one of the underlying tensions that had existed with the band from the start-the battle between the music the band wrote and the lyrics Gabriel brought to the song-really came to the fore with this song.  Epping Forest has a LOT of lyrics, and the vocal melodies are forced to contort in odd directions to fit the lengthy lines. I don't want to paint this as a problem between Tony and Peter, who usually had the disagreement on how a song should or shouldn't have lyrics, as the interview in question I saw had Phil expressing this (and I think mentioning some of the songs on Foxtrot where the same issue cropped up.) But there was starting to be tension in the band, especially if you couple how the perfectly lovely Hackett instrumental After The Ordeal almost didn't make the album to the issues Gabriel was starting to have with the band. You can pretty much track how, in terms of the music, Tony was starting to assume control by the amount of input Hackett had; Hackett's never quite this prominent on guitar again during his tenure with the band. Which is a shame, since Hackett's work on this album is easily his best with the band, especially Moonlit Knight and the lovely, almost floating solo on Firth of Fifth.

Still, it's a brilliant album; even the two shorter tracks, I Know What I Like and More Fool Me, work well, and Aisle of Plenty is a nice bookending reprise of Moonlit Knight that ties the album together. Another thing that amazed me when I got it was how LONG it was, for 1973. 53 minutes was a long vinyl album in the 80s, but in 1973 it was rather long. While Foxtrot is now my favorite Gabriel era album (which one is my favorite overall, I really can't figure out), I have no problem with someone saying Selling England is their best album, because it's really damn good.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:05:53 PM by Jaq »
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #146 on: November 12, 2012, 03:16:42 PM »
I think this one would have to be my third favorite of the Gabriel era albums, behind Foxtrot in second and The Lamb in first.

Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #147 on: November 12, 2012, 03:35:58 PM »
I think this one would have to be my third favorite of the Gabriel era albums, behind Foxtrot in second and The Lamb in first.
Yes, definitely something like this. Though I think Nursery Cryme might squeeze in JUST before SEBTP.
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #148 on: November 12, 2012, 03:38:22 PM »
All I know is that The Lamb is most definitely tops. :metal

Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #149 on: November 13, 2012, 02:35:59 AM »
All I know is that The Lamb is most definitely tops. :metal
:metal
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Offline Sketchy

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2012, 04:30:25 AM »
The Lamb is good saturday afternoon music in winter. It fits the mood so well.
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Offline Nel

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #151 on: November 13, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »
SEBTP is probably tied with trespass as my favorite from the Gabriel years. WHole thing flows so well.
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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #152 on: November 13, 2012, 04:05:58 PM »
Guess I'm kinda late to the whole Genesis party having only been able to get hold of the Gabriel era stuff this year. I picked up Selling England and Nursery Cryme the other day and having listened to all of Selling England I have to say I really like it. I think someone has already said that it will, like most prog albums probably take a few listens to really sink in but just from 2-3 listens I'm genuinely loving the album and its songs. I can't really rank the songs just yet but I'm going to go ahead and say that Firth Of Fifth is my favourite track on the disk, lyrics aside on it which I don't really care for the music is wonderful.

Offline ThatcrazyKISSfan

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #153 on: November 13, 2012, 04:22:45 PM »
All I know is that The Lamb is most definitely tops. :metal
:metal

To me Selling England tops all Genesis albums, and Images and Words is the only album, at this time, that I may prefer over this one.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #154 on: November 13, 2012, 04:51:28 PM »
Guess I'm kinda late to the whole Genesis party having only been able to get hold of the Gabriel era stuff this year. I picked up Selling England and Nursery Cryme the other day and having listened to all of Selling England I have to say I really like it. I think someone has already said that it will, like most prog albums probably take a few listens to really sink in but just from 2-3 listens I'm genuinely loving the album and its songs. I can't really rank the songs just yet but I'm going to go ahead and say that Firth Of Fifth is my favourite track on the disk, lyrics aside on it which I don't really care for the music is wonderful.

Welcome!  If Genesis has another fan, then that can only be a good thing.

While pretty much everyone agrees that the music to "Firth of Fifth" is amazing, Tony and Mike wrote the lyrics, and Tony has said that he's not particularly proud of them.  According to Wiki, they were "one of the worst sets of lyrics he had been involved with".

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #155 on: November 13, 2012, 05:01:53 PM »
Guess I'm kinda late to the whole Genesis party having only been able to get hold of the Gabriel era stuff this year. I picked up Selling England and Nursery Cryme the other day and having listened to all of Selling England I have to say I really like it. I think someone has already said that it will, like most prog albums probably take a few listens to really sink in but just from 2-3 listens I'm genuinely loving the album and its songs. I can't really rank the songs just yet but I'm going to go ahead and say that Firth Of Fifth is my favourite track on the disk, lyrics aside on it which I don't really care for the music is wonderful.

Welcome!  If Genesis has another fan, then that can only be a good thing.

Thanks :)

I do actually have a bit of a history with Genesis, it would have came to light later on in the thread but I may as well tell now, while this year has been the year I've actually gotten into the history of the band, Genesis were actually responsible for one of the first three albums I liked. My earliest musical memories are probably from when I was 4/5 and it was listening to We Can't Dance, Meat Loafs - Bat Out Of Hell II and Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of the War of The Worlds.

So they've always had a special place in my heart but it's only really this year I've started to really delve into them.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #156 on: November 13, 2012, 05:13:13 PM »
All three of those are pretty great albums.  :tup

Offline tedesco23

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #157 on: November 14, 2012, 05:38:39 PM »
SEbtP was the first Genesis album I bought, maybe 15 years ago. Since then, I've worked my way through a lot of their discography, and I've come to think very highly of a lot of their work. But at least for the Gabriel years, this album has always sounded like a quantum leap beyond anything that came before in their discography. I love Foxtrot, but the long songs here are just so much richer and better constructed than anything that came before, and the shorter songs balance the album perfectly.

To my ears, this is the best thing in their discography, by far the best thing they did with Gabriel, and easily makes any desert-island top 10 list that I'd put together.

Looking forward to when we get to Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering a bit later. They've risen over the years to #2 & 3 on my Genesis list. I suspect that won't be a popular view....

Offline Jaq

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Re: Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
« Reply #158 on: November 14, 2012, 05:43:06 PM »
SEbtP was the first Genesis album I bought, maybe 15 years ago. Since then, I've worked my way through a lot of their discography, and I've come to think very highly of a lot of their work. But at least for the Gabriel years, this album has always sounded like a quantum leap beyond anything that came before in their discography. I love Foxtrot, but the long songs here are just so much richer and better constructed than anything that came before, and the shorter songs balance the album perfectly.

To my ears, this is the best thing in their discography, by far the best thing they did with Gabriel, and easily makes any desert-island top 10 list that I'd put together.

Looking forward to when we get to Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering a bit later. They've risen over the years to #2 & 3 on my Genesis list. I suspect that won't be a popular view....

Wind And Wuthering is my favorite Collins album, and if I had to rank everything, it'd only be behind Foxtrot overall. So you wouldn't be alone in one case!
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Offline Orbert

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Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #159 on: November 14, 2012, 10:16:32 PM »
Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)



Tony Banks - Keyboards
Phil Collins - Drums, Percussion, Vocals
Peter Gabriel - Vocals, Flute, Oboe
Steve Hackett - Guitars
Mike Rutherford -  Bass, Bass Pedals, 12-String Guitar


The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Fly on a Windshield
Broadway Melody of 1974
Cuckoo Cocoon
In the Cage
The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging
Back in N. Y. C.
Hairless Heart
Counting Out Time
The Carpet Crawl (U.S. title: The Carpet Crawlers)
The Chamber of 32 Doors
Lilywhite Lilith
The Waiting Room
Anyway
Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist (U.S. title: The Supernatural Anaesthetist)
The Lamia
Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats
The Colony of Slippermen
  The Arrival
  A Visit to the Doktor
  Raven
Ravine
The Light Dies Down on Broadway
Riding the Scree
In the Rapids
It.
 
----------

Genesis felt that they were ready to tackle a double LP concept album, something that few bands attempt.  It is somewhat more common now, but in 1974 it was still very much a rarity.  Yes had released Tales from Topographic Oceans earlier that year, and The Who had released their second concept album, Quadrophenia, in 1973 (Tommy of course was the first, and the archetype for all such albums), but that was about it.  Pink Floyd's The Wall was yet to come.  Dream Theater's Scenes from a Memory, and Snow by Spock's Beard were still decades away.

They knew they wanted it to be a story, since they were good at telling stories and felt that the double album format would give them room to stretch out.  They already were thinking in terms of standalone songs for major "scenes" in the story, with instrumentals and other shorter bits connecting things together.  Mike had the idea of setting "The Little Prince" by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry to music, while Peter was thinking in terms of an original story.  Those were the only two candidates, and eventually the band decided that an original story was the way to go.  They also agreed that one person should write all the lyrics.  This would give the story cohesion and a more consistent tone.  Since it was Peter's idea, it made sense that Peter would write the lyrics.

They headed out to Headley Grange, a house in the English countryside previously occupied by Led Zeppelin, Bad Company, and other bands.  Peter found a room in which to sit and start writing lyrics, leaving the others to begin writing the music.  This was very different from how previous Genesis albums had been written, but they were very excited to be trying something new.  Tony, Mike, and Phil ended up writing most of the music, although there are some parts which Steve contributed.  Steve had some trouble adjusting to the new writing format and finding ways to contribute.  He has said that the album has a lot of great keyboard work, and some areas where the guitar gets an opportunity to be heard.

It was during the writing sessions at Headley Grange that Peter received a phone call from William Friedkin, author of the novel The Exorcist which had recently been made into a very popular movie.  It seems that Friedkin had a copy of Genesis Live, and was intrigued by the strange little story on the back cover which Peter had written, based on one of the ad-libbed stories he'd come up with in between songs to give the band time to tune their guitars.  Friedkin was starting to work on his next project, a science fiction film, and wanted Peter on board as a consultant because of his "weird, visual mind".  He didn't want the rest of the band; he already had Tangerine Dream on board for the music.  He just wanted Peter.

Peter went to the others and asked if they'd mind if he'd go off to Hollywood to work on a movie.  They were very much against it, as they were all, including Peter, working to finish their next album which, by the way, had a deadline.  Peter left anyway.

The remaining four members were dumbfounded.  Here they were, writing some of the best music they'd ever written, and suddenly the band was without a singer.  Phil suggested (and it's unclear just how serious he was) that they record it as an instrumental album; they had plenty of music, and it was very good.

Peter got to Hollywood and told Friedkin that he'd left Genesis and was ready to work; Friedkin was aghast.  It was not a permanent position, it was not full-time, it was just for some ideas.  And he definitely did not want to be responsible for breaking up Genesis.  Besides, the project really hadn't started yet; there wasn't actually any work to do.  This left Peter in limbo, having quit Genesis, but currently without anything else to do.

Eventually, Genesis manager Tony Stratton-Smith got Peter to commit to completing the album before doing anything else, and Peter returned to England.  Mike called him, asked him to come out to Headley Grange, and they would sort it all out.  Peter came back out and continued working on the lyrics for what would become The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.  The others had written a lot more music in the meantime, and the deadline for starting recording was approaching.

Ultimately, they finished the album, recorded it, and began a U.S. tour before the album had been released yet.  This meant that the concerts, which consisted of the album in its entirety, with "The Musical Box" and/or "Watcher of the Skies" for encores, were being played to audiences who didn't know any of the new music and were expecting a "regular" Genesis concert.  Instead, they got an hour and a half of a sprawling, confusing story, with great music and visuals, so it was overall a strange, mixed experience.  Peter performed the first half of the album as Rael, the main character in the story, but the second half was mostly done in various costumes, some quite elaborate ("The Lamia", "The Slipperman", etc.).  There were three large video screens, each with images to help augment and flesh out the story, but they were prone to timing issues and breaking down, and thus didn't quite have the intended effect.

Tensions rose within the band, mostly borne of frustration with how the concerts and the tour were proceeding.  Audience reactions varied widely, from acclaim to consternation, but one constant was that Peter was seen as the "star" of the show, and the others were just his backing band.  Tony, Mike, Phil, and Steve would play 100 minutes of excellent music every night, music that they'd put their hearts into, and backstage the fans would run right past them and surround Peter, telling him how great he was and asking for his autograph.

Peter decided that he would leave the group after the conclusion of the tour.  When he told the others, they weren't particularly surprised, having already dealt with him leaving once before, knowing that he was apparently capable of doing it again at any time, and sensing his growing alienation from the band.

The tour finished with a European leg, with the final dates in France.  Ticket sales were poor, and the last show was cancelled.  This meant that when they played their last concert together, they didn't know that it was their last concert together.  The final date was cancelled at the last minute, the tour was over, and they all went back to England.

The classic era of Genesis was over.  It ended on a high note artistically, but with the future of the band uncertain.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:18:09 PM by Orbert »

Offline Nel

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #160 on: November 14, 2012, 10:28:11 PM »
This is a funny one for me. The first song up to The Carpet Crawlers might be one of my favorite sequence of great songs... ever. And if that was the whole album, this might be my number 1 Genesis album. But the rest, the rest... I can't stand the rest of the album. It loses it's momentum and I rarely ever listen past Lilywhite Lilith because none of it does anything for me. A shame really. Still though, everything up to The Carpet Crawlers is fantastic. The build up to the bombasticness of Fly On A Windshield that grooves right into Broadway Melody, In The Cage which starts out on that great depressing minimalism and starts getting a bit more chaotic as it moves along, that somber but resilient melody of Hairless Heart, and the soothingness of The Carpet Crawlers. I adore the first part of the album.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #161 on: November 14, 2012, 10:52:43 PM »
While not perfect - the second disc meanders a bit at times, for one - The Lamb is probably my favorite Genesis record.  I would say 70% of it is absolutely dynamite (title track, Fly on a Windshield, In the Cage, Back in NYC, Anyway, The Lamia, It, etc.), with the rest mostly being pretty solid overall; The Waiting Room is the only track I usually skip. 

Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #162 on: November 14, 2012, 11:17:03 PM »
Oh, Lamb... how I love thee so. :heart   This relationship definitely didn't start out this way, however... :lol
 
Let me take you back to the summer of 1985.  My brother (who is about 3 years older than me) was able to go through his graduation ceremony in May of 1985, but we both had to go to summer school - him for sophomore English to finish his HS diploma, me for the second semester of Algebra I (there were only 2 people who passed the first semester - the rest of us failed, quite miserably :lol ).  A few months prior, he somehow shanghai'd our mother into letting him keep the turntable/stereo in his room (which was once my room).  So... he would take a side of The Lamb and play it.  Over.  And over.  And over. :lol   Which would go on for about 2 to 3 weeks, then he'd go to the next side.
 
My point?  After hearing the whole album by side over and over caused it to work its way into MY brain like it was doing to his.  It got to the point where I would almost shout (through the wall, natch), "Play the next side, dammit!" :lol
 
So, once I got this on CD... I didn't do the side thing.  I did the CD thing. :lol
 
Yes, Sides 3 and 4 meander quite a bit but the whole album is so much definitive Gabriel Genesis that I can't help but love it dearly (and have since that hot, boring summer).

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #163 on: November 15, 2012, 02:03:15 AM »
The lamb is an odd one for me. I agree with the others who say the second CD does tend to drag a bit but despite this I do love and enjoy the album. The music throughout the first CD is some absolutely fantastic stuff but I have to admit, I never really latched onto the concept or story being told. I love the album but the plot never grabbed me in the same way that other concept albums such as The Wall, Scenes or the various Ayreon stuff has.

Offline crazyaga

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #164 on: November 15, 2012, 02:05:24 AM »
Easily the best Genesis album imo.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #165 on: November 15, 2012, 02:14:36 AM »
Damn, I have to make myself listen to this record, which is something I haven't done in a long time. We'll see if it clicks suddenly... I doubt it, though.

Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #166 on: November 15, 2012, 02:47:01 AM »
Easily the best Genesis album imo.
This so much. I think the high points of disc 2 are as high as the high points of disc 1. However, the first one is far more consistent. I still love both ones though. The Lamia is one of the best songs.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #167 on: November 15, 2012, 07:47:31 AM »
The first disc seems to have more catchy songs, and the second has more ideas and scenes and stuff.  Since I'm partial to the instrumental stuff, I lean a little towards the second disc.  "The Lamia" is gorgeous, "Silent Sorrow" is underrated, "Slippermen" is weird and cool, "Riding the Scree" is awesome...

Astute readers noticed that I said almost nothing about the content of the album, only about its creation and the tour.  I wanted to hear what others had to say first.  Tony, Mike, Phil, and Steve have all said that some of their best work, their best music, is on this album, but they've also all expressed some dissatisfaction with it.  A lot of it had to do with how it went down.  They had all this amazing music, and then Peter came in with reams and reams of lyrics, far more than would actually fit on a double album, and started fitting things in.  Entire sections which they had thought would be instrumental ended up with vocals over them.  There were parts of the story which were cut out because of time limitations, but some which Peter felt really needed to be there, so he asked the guys to write some music to fit into certain parts.  It seemed to emphasize the rift that was growing between Peter ("the star") and the rest of them ("the band").

Tony has said that the story is the weakest part of the album.  It doesn't make a lot of sense, and because of how everything fits together, it's hard to take individual songs from The Lamb and play them in concert out of context.  "The Carpet Crawl" stands pretty well on its own because it has a verse-chorus structure, and some instrumental bits have been worked into medleys, but other than that and the title song, they weren't able to play much of it after the tour, and that's a shame.  He specifically mentions "The Lamia", a beautiful piece of music that he's quite proud of, which you can't do as a standalone song because it just doesn't make sense.  I understand his point, but I think that he's probably being a little too concerned about context.  The audience would appreciate a good piece of music, regardless.

As mentioned above, Steve was probably the least happy with it, as he didn't really contribute much and doesn't have a lot of moments to stand out.  He admits that that's partly his own fault, but he just wasn't thrilled with the whole concept, and had trouble working with it.

Phil talks about how the concerts were generally disasters.  In the second half, there were all these elaborate stage effects and costumes and there were lots of malfunctions.  Microphone cords would get caught on bit of scenery.  Costumes (especially the Slipperman) sometimes prevented the microphone from getting anywhere near Peter's mouth, plus he was out of breath from running and changing, and there were a lot of words, with the result that you sometimes couldn't make out any vocals.  I've heard bootlegs from these shows, and he's right.  Phil says that he saw "This is Spinal Tap" and said "That's us!"  He believes that the equipment malfunctions in "This is Spinal Tap" were based on the tour for The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

For a while, there was something of a rumor that the band was happy when Peter decided to leave.  All of them agree that this is completely and totally wrong.  For all the problems with getting this album done, and the tour, they were very proud of it, and they were looking forward to taking a break and then creating another great album, together.  They were devastated, even if they weren't really surprised.

Peter says that he didn't worry about the rest of them, not because he didn't care, but because he always felt that the music and the songs were the most important thing, and with so much talent still in the band, they would have no problem continuing.  He points to the fact that Genesis continued to grow in popularity after his departure as "proof" that he was right.

Phil specifically denies that he "always wanted to be the lead singer" and couldn't wait for Peter to leave.  Peter was the singer, Phil was the drummer, and everyone was fine with that.  Phil did like to sing, but never considered himself a "real" singer and was very grateful that they allowed him a few spots while Peter was still in the band.

Anyway, the story is confusing.  Would it have made any more sense if they'd not cut so much out of it?  Maybe, but we'll never know.  They briefly considered making it a triple album, but figured that that wouldn't fly with the label, and they were probably right.  What remains is a story involving Rael, Imperial Aerosol Kid, and his adventures/fantasies/nightmares in New York, below it, and elsewhere perhaps only in his mind.  It seems to be a journey of self-discovery; there is his brother John who appears from time to time, but whom many have postulated is not real, but is a reflection of Rael himself.  John never responds to Rael, never helps him, and in the end, when Rael sacrifices himself to save John, he turns John over to find the John's face is actually his own.

Peter has never really explained it.  He seems to want to leave it up to the listener's interpretation.  This is okay, but also a bit frustrating because at some point, it really would be nice to know what it's all supposed to mean, if only so that the listener knows whether or not he was correct in his interpretation.  But after nearly 30 years, no explanation appears to be forthcoming.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:23:40 PM by Orbert »

Offline Sketchy

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #168 on: November 15, 2012, 08:05:02 AM »
I love this album, and I think the assessment of The Lamia as being a truly beautiful piece of music is lovely. It really is just wonderful. I've heard interviews where the members of Genesis have said that they think that the second half was not as strong as the first, but I have to say, some of my favourite parts are on the second, especially The Light Dies Down On Broadway. I love how that one returns the musical themes of the first track and turns them into something much more contemplative and melancholic.

I have to say that although Steve's work on this album is much more limited than on previous ones, there's still enough to really have him stand out as a brilliant instrumentalist, as do all the members, whereas on the two subsequent albums, his input is really, really small. That said, hearing him play Fly On A Windsheild live is pretty special. I love the way the mellotron on that kicks in in a massive way.

There are points where the vocals don't quite work with the music, but they do work better than on some things (Epping Forest, for instance), and all together, I think it's a pretty damn good album. It has problems, but it also has amazing things of amazing.
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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #169 on: November 15, 2012, 08:16:42 AM »
It is a shame that the overall story of the album doesn't quite live up to expectations or what the band would have liked because there are some songs where you really get some fantastic imagery and can get to grips with the story they're trying to tell but in others it just falls apart. I think personally a triple album would have been too much and I think perhaps Peter in terms of lyrics and plot got a bit too ambitious but even with this they had created a fantastic piece of work which manages to overcome its faults.

As said ambition probably got the better of them and they weren't able to adapt their ambition into a more slimmed down format, a shame because Genesis, while having a few misses in the lyrical department were and from this moment on are fantastic storytellers with their music and lyrics, they did have a way with words that was accessible by most prog band standards, especially compared to a band like Yes who for as much as I enjoy them, I don't have a bloody clue what they're going on about.

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #170 on: November 15, 2012, 08:43:37 AM »
Another great album, although it's not one of my very favourites. I have a problem with a lot of double-albums, they seem to run out of steam (heh) after a while. There are many outstanding tracks here though - the title track, In The Cage, Back In NYC, The Carpet Crawlers, Hairless Heart, Counting Out Time, and It. I guess it's the 2nd disc that doesn't do that much for me as the first one do. Perhaps if I got the chance to see it live I would have had a better understanding of the concept/story and a better appreciation for the whole piece.
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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #171 on: November 15, 2012, 09:10:33 AM »
I also disagree that playing songs from The Lamb wouldn't sound right out of context.  Like you said, Orbert, good music is good music. 

Also, I stand firm in my opinion that...

Anyway
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The Lamia

...is the best three-song run on the entire album.  :tup :tup

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #172 on: November 15, 2012, 09:11:24 AM »
Love the album. 

But I really don't get too bogged down by the story/concept.   When I listen to it, I approach the album like it's a big fantastical dream ... and dreams are supposed to be disjointed and nonsensical anyway. 

To the point about some songs not being able to 'stand alone', it doesn't hurt that I'm an albums guy who generally listens to whole albums at a time.  I rarely ever just pick out tunes from an album for spur-of-the-moment listening.
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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #173 on: November 15, 2012, 09:52:30 AM »
LOVE this album - front to back, top to bottom, left to right - not a single song or second is unloved by me.

When I first got in to Genesis, this album was one of the first I listened to and was blown away by the scope of it all, and the playing was fiercely intense, with tracks like "Fly On A Windshield" and "In The Cage", as well as "Riding The Scree" and "The Colony Of Slippermen", they really had some of their best music on here! The lyrics, on the other hand, took awhile to understand, or at least, comprehend in terms of the context of the whole story. Eventually, I found websites that analyzed the story itself, lyrical references, meanings of words and phrases, and how it all fit together...well, one interpretation of how it all fit together.

This album was also my first double LP-length album. Up until this point, most of the prog albums I had listened to were only single vinyl-length, 40-50 minutes, so it was with THIS album that my love for double-length albums began, longer albums full of sprawling instrumental sections and wild jams and crazy stories. As Orbert said, before this album, there weren't that many albums like it, but since then, plenty have come along, but The Lamb is, for me, always the benchmark for the format.

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Re: Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
« Reply #174 on: November 15, 2012, 09:57:35 AM »
Going backwards through the discography of Genesis meant that this was my introduction to the band with Peter Gabriel as the singer, which given that it was his last album with the band is kind of funny. I bought Lamb on the shortest day of the year in a cold December, on the day that my high school best friend returned to town for winter break from the Air Force Academy, a day I remember clearly because it was overcast and it was as if night started at about 4:30 in the afternoon. I remember the clerk remarking on my purchase as being an awesome album, and I was right excited to get home later and play it.

My initial impression of the Lamb was actually the one I remain having today; the highs are amazing, but overall it's a flawed masterpiece. I didn't know the story of how the album came to be, but now that I do, the somewhat occasionally disjointed nature of the album makes a lot of sense. There are some fantastic individual songs-the title track, Fly On A Windshield, Broadway Melody of 1974, In The Cage, Counting Out Time, Lilywhite Lilith, Anyway, The Lamia-but like a lot of double albums, it starts running out of energy around the second album. Usually this happens around side three, but Lamb actually makes it to Slippermen before it comes apart, and back in the day, when I owned it on vinyl, I rarely played side four. I actually had no problem with the story, simply because it's not QUITE as obscure as Gabriel likes to make it out to be now. Young man undergoes various transformations in a mythic underworld transported to beneath New York City. I actually enjoyed greatly reading the story of the album that was inside the gatefold of the album. That's something you couldn't do today in a CD booklet.

I disagree with Banks' notion that you couldn't take the songs out of context. I suspect that, to a certain extent, that even to this day Banks occasionally thinks he was right about the choices that Gabriel made to change the music to fit his lyrics, so he's prone to think his initial vision of the music was superior to the end result. I actually was prone of dropping the needle on individual tracks on this album quite frequently, skipping the interludes and shorter pieces to get to the actual songs. It's interesting to me that, at the height of the prog era, when everyone was stretching out the length and going for full sides, Genesis made an album of songs with only two over 8 minutes long, and some of the best four to five minute long songs the band ever did. The argument could be made that the entire album was of a piece, and that made it long, but some of the songs are so good, and really DO work alone, that you could take the best songs from the album and throw them out of context into a set and not lose anyone.

The thing that stands out most for me now, having gotten all the way through the band's discography, is how little Steve Hackett is involved musically. As I said during the posts on Selling, his guitar work was already becoming less important, but on Lamb his contributions plummet massively, and in the two four piece albums that are coming he's at times practically invisible. Going backwards through their discography is a great way to illustrate just why Steve Hackett left the band; there was a certain inevitability to it. I am probably one of the few that rates Lamb behind the other three albums this line up did, but I do. It's got amazing highs, but it just runs out of energy for me. I will say that if I was to rate the first album alone, it'd be number one. That's some of the best music Genesis has ever done. It's the second album where it starts to lag.
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