If falling into infinity was released like this..

[BlobVanDam]

JLMB, which I really love (I'm pretty sure I'm the only one there).

Nope, not the only one.  I mean, I wouldn't say I LOVE it, but it's very good.

Well I don't mean love as in top 20 (or maybe even 50) or anything like that, but it's a cool little song that I always listen to when I give FII a spin.

[Kwyjibo]

JLMB, which I really love (I'm pretty sure I'm the only one there).

Nope, not the only one.  I mean, I wouldn't say I LOVE it, but it's very good.

OK, time to out myself. I love JLMB and I really like BMS.

On the main topic: Losing these two songs wouldn't improve FII and ACOS wouldn't make up for them, at least IMO. I quite like the album as it is. ACOS is a nice song but for me it has a totally different feel than anything on FII.

[Jaffa]

Ok, it's mostly just JLMB, which I really love (I'm pretty sure I'm the only one there). It seemed like more at first glance, but YNM and TAMP aren't listenable, and BMS is ok, but not a loss.
But the inclusion of ACOS would water down the album for me, rather than improve it. I don't think it would fit the style or the flow of the album at all.

Ah, fair enough.  Just curious. 

[BlobVanDam]

Ok, it's mostly just JLMB, which I really love (I'm pretty sure I'm the only one there). It seemed like more at first glance, but YNM and TAMP aren't listenable, and BMS is ok, but not a loss.
But the inclusion of ACOS would water down the album for me, rather than improve it. I don't think it would fit the style or the flow of the album at all.

Ah, fair enough.  Just curious. 

Yes, I know you are indeed a curious little scamp.

[Dacling]

I will offer my option.

Disc 1 - 50:22
1. Trial of Tears
2. Peruvian Skies
3. Hollow Years
4. New Millennium
5. Take Away My Pain
6. Hell's Kitchen
7. Lines in the Sand

Disc 2 - 52:33
1. Raise the Knife
2. Anna Lee
3. Just let me Breathe
4. Speak to Me
5. A Change of Seasons

If it was like this and the performances were as good as the live performances are of them and mixed better. I don't like the album or demo version of Just Let Me Breathe at all so I imagine it to be a lot more like the live scenes version. If it were this way it would probably just beat out ADTOE for it's number 5 spot rather than being number 10 just barely beating out Systematic Chaos.

[Ruba]

*snip*

would it be among Images and Words and Awake and Scenes from a Memory as godly albums?

Yes.

But it is there already.

[Kotowboy]

Falling Into Infinity > Systematic Chaos.

How relevant to the topic...

How called for...

[SomeoneLikeHim]

It would be...



Infinitely better

[namgalsipsclar]

Yeah take out New Millennium and put Take away my pain back in

[Scorpion]

Yeah take out New Millennium and put Take away my pain back in...

...in the demo version.

[Sycsa]

Well, it would pass Images & Words, but that's not really that big a feat.

I, on the other hand, think it is about half-an-album's worth of the best music ever made, and about half an album of filler.  So despite a lot of incredible stuff, there's a lot of stuff that I rarely feel like listening to.  In that regard, I hold it about equal to Systematic Chaos, which similarly is about 1/2 awesome and 1/2 filler.  (actually, both albums are probably closer to 2/3 awesome, 1/3 filler, but we're just talking rough estimates, so...)

Where's New Millennium? AKA one of DT's top 5 songs.

What the...? Are we having bizarro day on DTF?

[Zook]

 TAMP Album version > demo version

[Mladen]

1. New Millennium
2. Peruvian Skies
3. Hollow Years
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines in the Sand
6. Anna Lee
7. Trial of Tears
8. A Change of Seasons

would it be among Images and Words and Awake and Scenes from a Memory as godly albums?

Nope.

Had it been released like this:

1. Raise the knife
2. Cover my eyes
3. Peruvian skies
4. Hollow years
5. Burning my soul
6. Where are you now
7. The Way it used to be
8. Trial of tears

...it would be up there. Or at least very close.

[Cedar redaC]

Raise the Knife is a necessity, but you all knew that.

[yorost]

Where's New Millennium? AKA one of DT's top 5 songs.

What the...? Are we having bizarro day on DTF?

New Millennium is a semi-regular in top ten threads.  It isn't widely loved, but it really clicked with a section of the fan base. 

[CrimsonSunrise]

It's perfect the way it was released, except they could have left out Anna Lee.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

1. New Millennium
2. Peruvian Skies
3. Hollow Years
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines in the Sand
6. Anna Lee
7. Trial of Tears
8. A Change of Seasons

would it be among Images and Words and Awake and Scenes from a Memory as godly albums?

Not sure. I mean, all those songs are amazing and all, but there's a certain vibe in FII that would be broken. The album is amazing as it is.

That would feel like an amazing collection of songs, instead of feeling like an album with a certain mood and vibe. I prefer having the second, while making the former by myself.

[Elite]

1. New Millennium
2. Peruvian Skies
3. Hollow Years
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines in the Sand
6. Anna Lee
7. Trial of Tears
8. A Change of Seasons

would it be among Images and Words and Awake and Scenes from a Memory as godly albums?

Remove the mess that is New Millennium and replace it with Raise the Knife. Then remove Anna Lee and we're talking some seriously good shit. The only thing dragging it down then would be Lines in the Sand, but seeing as to how a lot of people will disagree with me on that one, we'll stop right here.

[iamtheeviltwin]

I realize I may be an extreme minority on this, but i would really miss Take Away My Pain and You Not Me.  I have to agree with DarkLord, FII has a very cohesive sound as the album was released and that makes it far more cohesive than it would otherwise would be.

Plus, one of the things that made ACOS special (in my mind) was that is was released as an EP.  It made it stand out as an epic in a way that said, look here is something special enough to stand on it's own without the clutter of an album around it.

[yorost]

I realize I may be an extreme minority on this, but i would really miss Take Away My Pain and You Not Me.  I have to agree with DarkLord, FII has a very cohesive sound as the album was released and that makes it far more cohesive than it would otherwise would be.

Plus, one of the things that made ACOS special (in my mind) was that is was released as an EP.  It made it stand out as an epic in a way that said, look here is something special enough to stand on it's own without the clutter of an album around it.

Both are great points.  I think some of the condensed track lists contain solid sets of songs, but it's hard to tell how well they mesh as a whole without going ahead and listening to it for awhile.  Just picking favourite songs isn't enough to ensure a good album.

[TheGreatPretender]

Plus, one of the things that made ACOS special (in my mind) was that is was released as an EP.  It made it stand out as an epic in a way that said, look here is something special enough to stand on it's own without the clutter of an album around it.

Plus even though ACOS was released right before FII, they did write it a long time ago. I don't know of very many bands that release really old material on their newer albums. I mean, maybe stuff that was written a couple years back, sure, but they wrote ACOS before I&W even came out. And while it was big enough and great enough to warrant a studio release, had they put it on FII, it wouldn't accurately portray where the band was musically at that time.

[yorost]

Probably not worth getting in to detail, but I don't think that's too odd of an occurrence, releasing older material on the same album as new material.  I've heard a variety of artists talk about sitting on demoed riffs/songs for years before releasing them as part of a larger new work.  Sometimes things just don't fit anywhere when they're written, even though the artists likes it.

[RuRoRul]

I think Anna Lee drags it down slightly but any album with A Change Of Seasons, Lines In The Sand and Trial Of Tears and a few other good songs on it would probably be about DT's best. Hell, cut the weakest 20 mins worth of songs and replace it with ACOS and any DT album would probably be their best (apart from WDADU). I find it hard to consider an album with ACOS on it though since it I'm so used to thinking of it standing alone, and it wouldn't really fit with the rest of the music on nearly all of their albums.

[Cool Chris]

Nothing, not even just having ACoS repeated 3 times, could put FII in the same realm as I&W, A, and SFaM.

[Polis]

I don't love new millennium.. but I think it's hard to hate it, and it is a pretty good album opener.

[mrjazzguitar]

1. New Millennium
2. Peruvian Skies
3. Hollow Years
4. Hell's Kitchen
5. Lines in the Sand
6. Anna Lee
7. Trial of Tears
8. A Change of Seasons

would it be among Images and Words and Awake and Scenes from a Memory as godly albums?

fuck me that would be a fantastic album... about to make that a playlist and listen!

[Adami]

Get rid of New Millennium and put on Raise the Knife and it'll be their 2nd best album.

[TheGreatPretender]

Probably not worth getting in to detail, but I don't think that's too odd of an occurrence, releasing older material on the same album as new material.  I've heard a variety of artists talk about sitting on demoed riffs/songs for years before releasing them as part of a larger new work.  Sometimes things just don't fit anywhere when they're written, even though the artists likes it.

It's kinda different though, because Change of Seasons wasn't just demos of riffs or songs, not like their Metropolis Pt. 2 demo, it was a song that they played live for a very long time before even Awake. So among the DT fanbase, it already existed as a song. So I think it's a bit of an unusual situation.

[Pols Voice]

Raise the Knife really isn't that great. I love New Millennium though. As it is, FII is my fourth favorite DT album.

[yorost]

Probably not worth getting in to detail, but I don't think that's too odd of an occurrence, releasing older material on the same album as new material.  I've heard a variety of artists talk about sitting on demoed riffs/songs for years before releasing them as part of a larger new work.  Sometimes things just don't fit anywhere when they're written, even though the artists likes it.

It's kinda different though, because Change of Seasons wasn't just demos of riffs or songs, not like their Metropolis Pt. 2 demo, it was a song that they played live for a very long time before even Awake. So among the DT fanbase, it already existed as a song. So I think it's a bit of an unusual situation.

You might have a point, there.  I can think of numerous songs played live before being recorded, but it's usually testing them on crowds in preparation for an album.  ...or in excess if you consider bands prior to a recording contract.  Though, A Change of Seasons did get a final overall involving Sherinian, didn't it?

I can think of one other song that was played live then needed fan support to get recorded.  World Gone Wild by Journey, after an unusually early Japanese release of Arrival fans were mad the song was not on the album, so Journey paid to record it and repress/repackage the worldwide cd's prior to release.

[TheGreatPretender]

You might have a point, there.  I can think of numerous songs played live before being recorded, but it's usually testing them on crowds in preparation for an album.  ...or in excess if you consider bands prior to a recording contract.  Though, A Change of Seasons did get a final overall involving Sherinian, didn't it?

The live version of A Change of Seasons on Taste The Memories Fanclub CD--if I am correct--was recorded during the Images and Words era. It did have several differences from the version that was released on the EP, but it was still largely the same song. So Derek didn't have THAT much creative input into how ACOS turned out, although his solos were fairly different from the ones Kevin Moore played.

[wolven74]

I&W is a classic, that has yet to be surpassed. Nothing you add or take away from FII will get it close to classic status.

[MoraWintersoul]

I don't know of very many bands that release really old material on their newer albums.

It happens. Dark Tranquillity put a song written in '96 on a 2010 album. I don't think it would happen here though.

Sorry for being a buzzkill, but the only could-have-been version of FII worth discussing is the demos. This way, if we're discussing ACOS on FII, the only fictional scenario we could consider is having the rest of FII written somewhere in '95 to accompany it, and we have no idea how would those songs sound like.

This way, everyone would take away (my pain) different songs from the actual album and add different songs from the demos, so we can't get a definitive fictitious version to discuss anyway. And it doesn't make much sense, having ACOS there, seeing how much they wrote for FII, I don't think they would have had an older song on the album assuming they hadn't released it already - kind of like the case of IAW and DLPM/TLF. You could have asked the same thing about having those tracks on the album, or Eve, or something.

[?]

Even if FII had been released with a tracklisting including all my favorite songs from that era, it would still be far from the godliness of I&W and Awake.

[hefdaddy42]

Probably not worth getting in to detail, but I don't think that's too odd of an occurrence, releasing older material on the same album as new material.  I've heard a variety of artists talk about sitting on demoed riffs/songs for years before releasing them as part of a larger new work.  Sometimes things just don't fit anywhere when they're written, even though the artists likes it.

It's kinda different though, because Change of Seasons wasn't just demos of riffs or songs, not like their Metropolis Pt. 2 demo, it was a song that they played live for a very long time before even Awake. So among the DT fanbase, it already existed as a song. So I think it's a bit of an unusual situation.

They didn't play it live for a very long time.  They played it 5 times total before the rework with Sherinian.