Why Isn't American Football More Popular Outside of America?

[orcus116]

Er, I have to believe that lack of marketing isn't the reason at all. It's not like the game is hidden from the rest of the world. I'm sure most people in the world are aware of its existence, they just don't care about it. Trying to set up a league in, say, Europe would probably be a massive failure.

[rumborak]

And that's the thing. Football needs to be commercially pushed because it involves an enormous support such as special uniforms, technical gadgetry etc.
Soccer needs 3 things: 2 bored kids, and a ball. Football has no chance against that kind of basic appeal.

BTW, there *was* something called NFL Europe, but it disbanded in 2005 or something.

[eric42434224]

For a sport to be come popular outside its native environment, it needs a grassroots push that is a massive undertaking.  It needs a huge push so kids will play, so the new country/region will have local talent.  A sport will not flourish if there is not a vibrant youth involvement.  Infrastructure and a high initial expense for parents are also extremely prohibitive....just look at the issues faced by the NHL as it tries to expand Hockey into the South (for decades now) with limited success.
The reason the NFL doesnt do this in other countries is it would be a ridiculously massive undertaking, and as of now it is the biggest sport in the US, by fay, and is still growing.  It simply has no incentive to grow the sport in other regions.

[rumborak]

It will be interesting to see over the years whether soccer will make inroads in the US. AF has had quite a few negative headlines over the years, especially the concussion issue. I can definitely say I would try to get my kids to play soccer. A sprained ankle is the worst you can get from it really.

[Nekov]

@Eric: I agree that nowadays it doesn't make any sense to try to popularize the sport outside the US but I would guess Reap is also interested in knowing why a sport that's been around for over 100 years now never got out of the country where it was created whereas basketball, soccer, rugby, etc actually did.

[King Postwhore]

You still are generalizing that all football players are dumb and that all fans are over the top, and that all baseball players are intelligent which is so far from the truth.

I never said ALL, i said that many tend to be, and most of that has to do with the fans and teams i see around where i live.  and while i admit im being general, i never said every single player is a moron, because that isnt true

"sorry if i offended, i was more blunt than i intended. just IMO, from what i've seen of football, the players tend to be less intelligent and more thug-like than in any other major sport in america"

Yeah, I'm not buying it.  I do understand your point but I could point out that more players in football at least have some college classes under their belt while many baseball players come right out of high school. Let's be honest, most are going to college for their skills, not their GPA.  And if anything people here in America verbally attack players in any sport that don't live up the the ridiculous amounts of money they make yearly.


Rumbo, I disagree with your assertion on kids playing soccer in their youth while not playing football.  I played tackle football with my buddies every week in the neighborhood.

eric, I think you see that with the NFL trying to get a foothold in England with one game a year, they'd like to branch out.  I think the NFL will have trouble like the American soccer leagues here.  I will be the first to tell you, I love going to Revolution games in Foxboro Mass even though I'm not deft at all the rules.

[King Postwhore]

Er, I have to believe that lack of marketing isn't the reason at all. It's not like the game is hidden from the rest of the world. I'm sure most people in the world are aware of its existence, they just don't care about it. Trying to set up a league in, say, Europe would probably be a massive failure.

It was already done orc and failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Europe

[Jaffa]

When you grow up in a soccer culture, you expect a certain "visceralness", a direct connection, from a sport. Everybody in the audience of a soccer stadium has played with a ball and a makeshift goal out of two cans in their youth, and when they watch a professional soccer game, it really isn't any different; it's just 22 guys who are really good at it, going at it with full force for 90 minutes.
In contrast, American Football, to a soccer fan, is a very "artificial" sport. It involves helmets and massive body padding, judges who confer video screens and replays, interruptions all the time, etc. etc.. There is no "men against men" aspect in AF, and I think a lot of soccer fans (including me) find that pretty unappealing.
Somewhat related, I always scratch my head when I see a group of guys playing touch football. It's clumsy, and gets nowhere near the real thing. Whereas a soccer game with 6 guys already has the same visceral appeal going that a 22-guys one has. So, I think that disconnect between low-level sport and high-level sport in AF is missing for soccer fans.

I see what you're getting at, but I actually have to defend football on this one.  I did play football at recess in elementary school, so I have played the simple and visceral version of it.  Offense meant a quarterback (which we took turns being) giving the ball to someone who tried to get it to the end zone.  Defense meant trying to catch whoever had the ball and take them down.   It was that simple, and actually very fun.  And it may seem very far removed from professional gridiron football, but it actually isn't; it's just that in the pros the strategies have to be a lot more complex because the simple style of play really doesn't work reliably in the professional environment.  This even goes for the stoppages - it's easy enough, in a three-on-three football game with simple strategy, to set up for the next play in two seconds without a huddle.  When you've got 11 very large and very skilled players trying to stop you, and you're trying to coordinate 11 people on how to deal with it, the pause is just a lot more necessary.

In some ways I think the same does apply to soccer.  I was the star of some childhood soccer teams, because I had good aim and good speed, and the coach could count on me to just be wherever the ball was and try to score with it.  It obviously doesn't work that way in the big leagues, where teamwork is a lot more essential and relying on one player the whole time simply cannot work. 

In every sport, more professional = more structure, I think. 

A sprained ankle is the worst you can get from it really.

...

I must have grown up in a really rough neighborhood for soccer. 

[rumborak]

In the end of course, it's not a black-or-white thing. Both soccer and AF have elements of all these things. It's really just a difference in level of those aspects. Soccer trumps AF in its simplicity and ease of entry into it. 2 boys can play soccer with each other, but they can't play anything that resembles AF. Somebody who's never heard of either sport will be able to join a soccer game within seconds of explaining; joining an AF game takes a lot longer.
That just stacks the odds against AF to ever take hold in places where it hasn't evolved originally.

[snapple]

In the end of course, it's not a black-or-white thing. Both soccer and AF have elements of all these things. It's really just a difference in level of those aspects. Soccer trumps AF in its simplicity and ease of entry into it. 2 boys can play soccer with each other, but they can't play anything that resembles AF. Somebody who's never heard of either sport will be able to join a soccer game within seconds of explaining; joining an AF game takes a lot longer.
That just stacks the odds against AF to ever take hold in places where it hasn't evolved originally.

Because you need pads to play on a team? Oh boy, someone clearly didn't grow up in the USA. 

[rumborak]

Two guys can kick an old can around and use two stones to demarkate the goal, and they're playing soccer. The same two guys can't really play anything resembling AF.

[snapple]

Two guys can kick an old can around and use two stones to demarkate the goal. I doubt AF lets you do that.

In my neighborhood, we played baseball with sticks and a ball (because none of us had a metal bat and we didn't want to use our wooden ones to have them break) and footballs with whatever we could. As long as we could throw it in the air and catch it, regardless of shape, we played with it. And no, we didn't play "touch" as kids. We tackled each other. I broke my brother's wrist once while playing

[rumborak]

How do you play baseball with 2 people? One throws, one runs ... who's catching? Everything is a home run?

[snapple]

How do you play baseball with 2 people? One throws, one runs ... who's catching? Everything is a home run?

there were like 8 kids on our block. but why does the appeal have to be down to how many people can play? and you improvise the rules.

[ReaPsTA]

Er, I have to believe that lack of marketing isn't the reason at all. It's not like the game is hidden from the rest of the world. I'm sure most people in the world are aware of its existence, they just don't care about it. Trying to set up a league in, say, Europe would probably be a massive failure.

It was already done orc and failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Europe

NFL Europe was basically an NFL minor league.  You can't expect that to succeed.  It's like saying you can't have the NFL in Las Vegas because their XFL team wasn't successful.

[TheVoxyn]

How do you play baseball with 2 people? One throws, one runs ... who's catching? Everything is a home run?

there were like 8 kids on our block. but why does the appeal have to be down to how many people can play? and you improvise the rules.

Because it's just something which kinda resembles the game in some way. Whilst with 2 people and a ball you pretty much have the main aspects of soccer covered, meaning pretty much everyone/everywhere can play it.

[rumborak]

The question is why is one sport more popular than the other in the world. I'm explaining that soccer pares down much better than AF and Baseball. A soccer game is still soccer whether you play it with 2 people or 22.  Neither AF nor Baseball have anything to do with the real thing when played with 2 people.
And whether a sport will get played or not in some 3rd world country *does* come down to the question whether 2 kids can meet and play it.

[snapple]

The question is why is one sport more popular than the other in the world. I'm explaining that soccer pares down much better than AF and Baseball. A soccer game is still soccer whether you play it with 2 people or 22.  Neither AF nor Baseball have anything to do with the real thing when played with 2 people. And good for you that you had 8 kids in your block who could all comes together and play it; but the probability of 2 people playing something is much higher than 8 people.

*looks to make sure this isn't P/R*....


 

[rumborak]

I don't know why you're getting belligerent. Soccer is way more popular than AF or Baseball; is your goal to find reasons that disprove this basic fact?

[Jaffa]

God, this is bringing back such fun memories for me.  I apologize for being negative in this thread - this topic is making my day. 

I remember playing 'football' in my back yard with my friend Kyle.  'Kickoff' was one of us throwing the ball to the other.  The receiving 'team' caught it and tried to get it to the other side of the yard, while the 'kicking' 'team' tried to stop them.  That was so much fun.  Utterly ridiculously, of course, because he was much faster and I was much stronger, so I could never catch him and he could never tackle me, which meant we both just scored every damn time.  But still a ton of fun. 

Don't think I ever played baseball with just two people.  Played it with three once, though.  Silly game - one of us was designated pitcher, and it was basically batter vs. outfielder. 

Good times.   

Listen, two kids can meet and play anything.  They'll absolutely mangle the rules, but they'll have fun doing it.  Where there's a will, there's a way.

[skydivingninja]

Here's an angle that hasn't been touched yet I think:

When you grow up in a soccer culture, you expect a certain "visceralness", a direct connection, from a sport. Everybody in the audience of a soccer stadium has played with a ball and a makeshift goal out of two cans in their youth, and when they watch a professional soccer game, it really isn't any different; it's just 22 guys who are really good at it, going at it with full force for 90 minutes.
In contrast, American Football, to a soccer fan, is a very "artificial" sport. It involves helmets and massive body padding, judges who confer video screens and replays, interruptions all the time, etc. etc.. There is no "men against men" aspect in AF, and I think a lot of soccer fans (including me) find that pretty unappealing.

This...totally makes sense and answers the OP question very well.  Thanks for that.  I don't scratch my head often as to why AF isn't popular over there at all, but its cool to see an explanation for it that really makes perfect sense as to why soccer is more appealing in those cultures. 

[rumborak]

On a sidenote, that's why FIFA (the world's soccer governing body) is loathing to introduce *any* kind of technology into the game. They want to preserve the idea that it's 22 men + a referee that constitutes the game. The rest is pure athleticism and skill.

[snapple]

I don't know why you're getting belligerent. Soccer is way more popular than AF or Baseball; is your goal to find reasons that disprove this basic fact?

I find your rationale completely opinion and...well wrong. Kids in the US find ways to play baseball, football, basketball, hockey and even soccer with fewer amount of players and a lack of equipment. You can't just say "NO, SOCCER IS EASIER TO GET INTO BECAUSE I DID IT AS A KID" and pass that off as absolute fact. Fact is, I fucking hated soccer when I was a kid and never played it. But does that make it true for you? No. You grew up in Germany.

Also, look at Aqua Velva commercials. Or shit, ANY commercial where it shows dad bonding with his son. I'll bet you 9/10 times they're playing catch. It will be football or baseball (usually baseball, but they show it both ways). I understand what it is you're trying to say. But, it's one of those things where your recollection of what may actually be the case isn't the case at all.

[snapple]

Listen, two kids can meet and play anything.  They'll absolutely mangle the rules, but they'll have fun doing it.  Where there's a will, there's a way.

That's more or less my point and why rumborak is pretty much wrong in trying to base his opinion as fact.

[eric42434224]

If there is no grassroots movement to have the children of a region not only try the game, but continue it in structured leagues from 5 yrs old all the way through college, there is absolutely zero chance it will be successful as a professional sport.
If you want a reason why it isnt successful, find the reason kids are not trying the sport, and not committing to it long term.

[rumborak]

@Snapple: Dude, I'm not trying to "disprove" that given the will, one can play anything. Of course you can! The question is plain and simple: Why is soccer so popular? And I think the answer is because it's the simplest sport everybody can play, and which still has great allure when played on a professional level.

[eric42434224]

Listen, two kids can meet and play anything.  They'll absolutely mangle the rules, but they'll have fun doing it.  Where there's a will, there's a way.

That's more or less my point and why rumborak is pretty much wrong in trying to base his opinion as fact.

It is not an opinion to state that soccer is easier for children to play, and for parents to afford, than Baseball, Football, Hockey, or Basketball.  It really is not hard to understand that.

[snapple]

@Snapple: Dude, I'm not trying to "disprove" that given the will, one can play anything. Of course you can! The question is plain and simple: Why is soccer so popular? And I think the answer is because it's the simplest sport everybody can play, and which still has great allure when played on a professional level.

Well, I disagree. Soccer is kick the ball in the goal. baseball is hit a ball with a stick. Basketball is throw the ball into the hoop. Those are pretty simple premises.

[snapple]

Listen, two kids can meet and play anything.  They'll absolutely mangle the rules, but they'll have fun doing it.  Where there's a will, there's a way.

That's more or less my point and why rumborak is pretty much wrong in trying to base his opinion as fact.

It is not an opinion to state that soccer is easier for children to play, and for parents to afford, than Baseball, Football, Hockey, or Basketball.  It really is not hard to understand that.

 

soccer leagues can be just as expensive as little league (when you factor in equipment and such). and, I was saying his rationale was incorrect, not the fact that soccer is more popular

[rumborak]

Are you miffed or something because your favorite sport isn't coming out on top?

[King Postwhore]

Er, I have to believe that lack of marketing isn't the reason at all. It's not like the game is hidden from the rest of the world. I'm sure most people in the world are aware of its existence, they just don't care about it. Trying to set up a league in, say, Europe would probably be a massive failure.

It was already done orc and failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Europe

NFL Europe was basically an NFL minor league.  You can't expect that to succeed.  It's like saying you can't have the NFL in Las Vegas because their XFL team wasn't successful.

Listen, it's doing well once a year because it's an event there.  Not a full season.  Even a pro team would struggle in Europe.  Just not enough familiarity.

[snapple]

Ok then. Good thing they're all equally popular in the world.

[rumborak]

what is your theory then why soccer is so vastly more popular?

[Jaffa]

Are you miffed or something because your favorite sport isn't coming out on top?

Can't speak for snapple, but myself I'm just defending the ingenuity of children.    I remember playing golf with baseball equipment, and rugby with essentially no understanding of how, actually, to play rugby.   

I think I do understand your point, though.  It's not so much that soccer is more accessible to children, it's that the verison of soccer which is accessible to children is very close to real soccer, whereas with gridiron football there tend to be a lot more differences between kids' structure and professional structure. 

[rumborak]

Are you miffed or something because your favorite sport isn't coming out on top?

Can't speak for snapple, but myself I'm just defending the ingenuity of children.    I remember playing golf with baseball equipment, and rugby with essentially no understanding of how, actually, to play rugby.   

I think I do understand your point, though.  It's not so much that soccer is more accessible to children, it's that the verison of soccer which is accessible to children is very close to real soccer, whereas with gridiron football there tend to be a lot more differences between kids' structure and professional structure. 

That's all good. But can you say you actually played rugby? Rugby lives off the passing to others, so you need at least 4 people to do anything resembling rubgy. Same with baseball; sure you can hit an object with a stick, but is it baseball? You need at lest 5 people or so to play anything resembling the real game.
The point is, when two boys in a township in South Africa meet and play soccer, they are playing the actual game. And I think that unbroken connection to the professional level of the game somewhat explains its popularity around the world.

EDIT: Ninja'd!