Author Topic: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!  (Read 192839 times)

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Offline Scorpion

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #1995 on: July 19, 2014, 07:14:12 PM »
I can understand that reasoning if we're talking about a movie or tv-show when it comes to ruining the plot, but how do you (just with words) ruin music for someone else? Just curious. I haven't heard it yet myself, but so far I haven't experienced any "spoilers".

Speaking only for myself, I don't mind people saying "It's great!" before I've heard it, but an example that I can think of that had been spoiled for me and reduced my enjoyment is on PtH's Volition, I knew that there was a Sequoia Throne reprise in Animal Bones before hearing, so I didn't have the "OMG HOLY FUCK it's a Sequoia Throne reprise" moment that many had on their first listen. Stuff like that, you know, knowing specifics beyond "I like it" and "I don't like it" can sometimes lessen my enjoyment of music that I am listening to.
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Offline PolarizeMe

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #1996 on: July 19, 2014, 08:19:23 PM »
Well, speaking for myself at least, it is kind of annoying that when the music is actually, legitimately released, a substantial number of people are usually already done talking about it.
Which is why I'm not even going to listen to it until it's legitimately released. When I think about it, I'm more occupied about what has been released recently (i.e. Mastodon, Anathema, Wolves In The Throne Room, Swans etc.) than what's coming up later in the year.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #1997 on: July 19, 2014, 11:26:57 PM »
Well, speaking for myself at least, it is kind of annoying that when the music is actually, legitimately released, a substantial number of people are usually already done talking about it.
This. I always wait until I get the CD.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #1998 on: July 20, 2014, 12:35:40 AM »
Well, speaking for myself at least, it is kind of annoying that when the music is actually, legitimately released, a substantial number of people are usually already done talking about it.
This. I always wait until I get the CD.

Thirded. So nice to give it a proper first listen, with booklet in your hands and all that. Though because albums take about three weeks to arrive in my country, I'm always late to the most of discussions. :D
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #1999 on: July 20, 2014, 02:45:17 AM »
The "people already being done talking about it once it's released" thing is another reason it's annoying... but also, hearing too much about it can often spoil my first listen. Not in the same sense of giving a plot away, but I don't want to hear anything about something before it's released, really. It just ruins it for me.
One example that comes to mind is when PT's The Incident came out. One of my friends hyped it up so hard before I heard it ("It's SO AMAZING!" etc. etc.) that when I finally got my copy I was like "Meh. This is aiight." I might've liked it more without any preconceived notions attached to it. This has happened with many albums as well as other types of media as well.
People here are saying this new album sounds like Heritage or Damnation, and that alone (not to mention all of the other, more specific details people have shared that I've tried to just skim over) is going to color my listening of it whether I want it to or not.
I wish the forum rule about not discussing leaked material applied to all bands and not just DT. It irritates me that downloading leaked stuff has pretty much become the standard these days (gawd forbid anyone wait to have the finished product in their hands), but that's another discussion.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2000 on: July 20, 2014, 03:49:30 AM »
Alright, I understand. For me personally, I try to not let other people's opinions or hype sway my own that much, but sometimes it might be hard. I agree that it can be frustrating that once you finally get to hear the album, the people you want to discuss the album with are already done discussing it, but that's a similar case with when you discover a band that other people have been listening to for years, and everything has been vented. I think in both cases you could get by with a thread resurrection and start discussions again. I can understand some things being spoiled like a guest appearance nobody knew about or a hint/easter egg somewhere, but otherwise it's pretty hard to explain a song in words. Somebody praising a guitar outro in a song is not gonna spoil the song, because even knowing there's a good outro, we have no idea how it sounds until we hear it.

But yeah, I guess I could kinda see expectations, fatigue and overall reception of an album before it comes out being factors that could ruin it slightly for you. I know sometimes when I hold off on an album and the first week when it leaks is overwhelmingly negative or lukewarm reception, my feelings go from "Im so excited" to "Man, do I really have to listen to this?".

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2001 on: July 20, 2014, 04:21:35 AM »
This is a different circumstance.  People are still yearning for a certain style from Opeth, which now on the last 2 albums, they've pulled away from.  Honestly it's the bands like this that have longevity.  They make the music that "They" want, not the fans and it keeps their artist juices going for decades because they are doing what they want.  Very similar to Rush. 

Many times throughout Rush's history fans from a certain "era" jumped of their bandwagon and their picked u others.  They did what they wanted and it was still artistically simulating to them to continue,
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2002 on: July 20, 2014, 06:46:32 AM »


They should use that as an album cover.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2003 on: July 20, 2014, 09:22:50 AM »
The "people already being done talking about it once it's released" thing is another reason it's annoying... but also, hearing too much about it can often spoil my first listen. Not in the same sense of giving a plot away, but I don't want to hear anything about something before it's released, really. It just ruins it for me.
One example that comes to mind is when PT's The Incident came out. One of my friends hyped it up so hard before I heard it ("It's SO AMAZING!" etc. etc.) that when I finally got my copy I was like "Meh. This is aiight." I might've liked it more without any preconceived notions attached to it. This has happened with many albums as well as other types of media as well.
People here are saying this new album sounds like Heritage or Damnation, and that alone (not to mention all of the other, more specific details people have shared that I've tried to just skim over) is going to color my listening of it whether I want it to or not.
I wish the forum rule about not discussing leaked material applied to all bands and not just DT. It irritates me that downloading leaked stuff has pretty much become the standard these days (gawd forbid anyone wait to have the finished product in their hands), but that's another discussion.

I totally know what you mean.  :tup :tup

I'll admit to sometimes snagging an album early, while still buying a physical copy when it comes out, but like The King In Crimson said, it can be frustrating when a lot of people are already "over" talking about by the time it officially hits stores.

This is a different circumstance.  People are still yearning for a certain style from Opeth, which now on the last 2 albums, they've pulled away from.  Honestly it's the bands like this that have longevity.  They make the music that "They" want, not the fans and it keeps their artist juices going for decades because they are doing what they want.  Very similar to Rush. 

Many times throughout Rush's history fans from a certain "era" jumped of their bandwagon and their picked u others.  They did what they wanted and it was still artistically simulating to them to continue,

Very true.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2004 on: July 20, 2014, 09:55:17 AM »
This is a different circumstance.  People are still yearning for a certain style from Opeth, which now on the last 2 albums, they've pulled away from.  Honestly it's the bands like this that have longevity.  They make the music that "They" want, not the fans and it keeps their artist juices going for decades because they are doing what they want.  Very similar to Rush. 

Many times throughout Rush's history fans from a certain "era" jumped of their bandwagon and their picked u others.  They did what they wanted and it was still artistically simulating to them to continue,

See, this is the assumption that kind of annoys me. It's basically the "OPETH R ONLY REEL WITH GROWLS" argument dressed up in new clothes. I didn't dislike Heritage and Pale Communion because it didn't sound like Blackwater Park or Ghost Reveries. I mean for fuck's sake, I loved Damnation, which at the time was as big a change up as any of the changes in style Rush did in your example and as big a change as the one Opeth did with Heritage. I didn't like those two albums because they're unfocused, scattershot, wearing their influences too solidly on their sleeves, and in the case of PC really bland and dull. I would have no problem with Opeth changing style to something if I thought it was any good. I don't reject it out of hand because it lacks Death Metal. I rejected them after listening to them and simply not liking them.

If I thought the albums were any good in the style they've chosen to play now I'd like them. I don't.

(By the way, yes, I have heard PC, and obviously didn't like it much.)
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2005 on: July 20, 2014, 11:19:23 AM »
Yay, I'm not alone! :laugh:

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2006 on: July 20, 2014, 11:19:47 AM »


They should use that as an album cover.

This is just too good :lol
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2007 on: July 20, 2014, 12:25:08 PM »
DC, maybe you should wait till autumn to listen to it. ;)  Seriously, I always find Opeth's music not very enjoyable in the summer time.  Certain bands are perfect for certain times of the year, and Opeth is an autumn/winter band.  Hell, I remember when Watershed came out in I think June of 2008; even though I bought the CD immediately, I didn't listen to it till September or October.

Yeeees. Deep, lush Opeth melodies while taking a road trip during autumn? Sounds good to me.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2008 on: July 20, 2014, 12:32:59 PM »


They should use that as an album cover.

Too dangerous. They'd risk a lawsuit from Judas Priest.
...but it would fit the 70's retro makeover.


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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2009 on: July 20, 2014, 12:45:14 PM »


They should use that as an album cover.

Too dangerous. They'd risk a lawsuit from Judas Priest.
...but it would fit the 70's retro makeover.



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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2010 on: July 20, 2014, 06:12:16 PM »
This is a different circumstance.  People are still yearning for a certain style from Opeth, which now on the last 2 albums, they've pulled away from.  Honestly it's the bands like this that have longevity.  They make the music that "They" want, not the fans and it keeps their artist juices going for decades because they are doing what they want.  Very similar to Rush. 

Many times throughout Rush's history fans from a certain "era" jumped of their bandwagon and their picked u others.  They did what they wanted and it was still artistically simulating to them to continue,

See, this is the assumption that kind of annoys me. It's basically the "OPETH R ONLY REEL WITH GROWLS" argument dressed up in new clothes. I didn't dislike Heritage and Pale Communion because it didn't sound like Blackwater Park or Ghost Reveries. I mean for fuck's sake, I loved Damnation, which at the time was as big a change up as any of the changes in style Rush did in your example and as big a change as the one Opeth did with Heritage. I didn't like those two albums because they're unfocused, scattershot, wearing their influences too solidly on their sleeves, and in the case of PC really bland and dull. I would have no problem with Opeth changing style to something if I thought it was any good. I don't reject it out of hand because it lacks Death Metal. I rejected them after listening to them and simply not liking them.

If I thought the albums were any good in the style they've chosen to play now I'd like them. I don't.

(By the way, yes, I have heard PC, and obviously didn't like it much.)

All I'm saying is that they never wrote great choruses and when you take away the angst and the power of the Roo Roo's it seems less focused.  Hey, I am no Roo Roo fan either.
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Offline Basekick

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2011 on: July 21, 2014, 12:01:25 PM »
This is a different circumstance.  People are still yearning for a certain style from Opeth, which now on the last 2 albums, they've pulled away from.  Honestly it's the bands like this that have longevity.  They make the music that "They" want, not the fans and it keeps their artist juices going for decades because they are doing what they want.  Very similar to Rush. 

Many times throughout Rush's history fans from a certain "era" jumped of their bandwagon and their picked u others.  They did what they wanted and it was still artistically simulating to them to continue,

See, this is the assumption that kind of annoys me. It's basically the "OPETH R ONLY REEL WITH GROWLS" argument dressed up in new clothes. I didn't dislike Heritage and Pale Communion because it didn't sound like Blackwater Park or Ghost Reveries. I mean for fuck's sake, I loved Damnation, which at the time was as big a change up as any of the changes in style Rush did in your example and as big a change as the one Opeth did with Heritage. I didn't like those two albums because they're unfocused, scattershot, wearing their influences too solidly on their sleeves, and in the case of PC really bland and dull. I would have no problem with Opeth changing style to something if I thought it was any good. I don't reject it out of hand because it lacks Death Metal. I rejected them after listening to them and simply not liking them.

If I thought the albums were any good in the style they've chosen to play now I'd like them. I don't.

(By the way, yes, I have heard PC, and obviously didn't like it much.)

All I'm saying is that they never wrote great choruses and when you take away the angst and the power of the Roo Roo's it seems less focused.  Hey, I am no Roo Roo fan either.

Adding to this point, IMO, the issue with the modern sound isn't the lack of growls but the lack of proper extreme dynamics that I'm used to from Opeth.  I'm talking sweet beautiful acoustic guitars and swirling vocal melodies that suddenly open up into gut-wrenching bombastic guitars and drums.  The pendulum would swing back and forth without disorientation in a shockingly natural way.  It's the signature attribute of Opeth that no other band has been able to bottle up and replicate.

Sadly, the pendulum in Pale Communion and Heritage seems to have been shoved by a father who has been helping their children on swings for twenty years.  Opeth has had enough, but the kid in me wants to go higher.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 01:53:19 PM by Basekick »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2012 on: July 21, 2014, 12:50:24 PM »


Adding to this point, IMO, the issue with the modern sound isn't the lack of growls but the lack of proper extreme dynamics that I'm used to from Opeth.  I'm talking sweet beautiful acoustic guitars and swirling vocal melodies that suddenly open up into gut-wrenching bombastic guitars and drums.  The pendulum would swing back and forth without disorientation in shockingly natural way.  It's the signature attribute of Opeth that no other band has been able to bottle up and replicate.

Sadly, the pendulum in Pale Communion and Heritage seems to have been shoved by a father who has been helping their children on swings for twenty years.  Opeth has had enough, but the kid in me wants to go higher.

That's a hilarious way to put it.  Even though I don't mind the lack of growls and heaviness, that's a great analogy. :tup :tup

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2013 on: July 21, 2014, 01:01:17 PM »
I think it has an excellent point. Opeth for me was never about the growls. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Mikael's growls, and he is an incredible vocalist. But it was the balance between dark and light, heavy and soft that made Opeth so darn memorable and special. The interplay between acoustic sections that are beautifully crafted, kicking into heavy sections with badass riffs. Just look at a song like Deliverance which shifts beautifully between heavy and soft.

I have yet to hear PC, but my main problems with Heritage and Damnation is that both of them, if they were a meter showing heartbeats would be like a straight line. I love Opeth when it goes up, it goes down and just brings everything in between. I did not LOVE Watershed (I thought it was good but not amazing), but in contrast to Heritage, Watershed had those ups and downs. Heir Apparent and Burden are like night and day.

Lets hope Opeth returns to make some heavy music again. If Mikael does not want to growl, that doesn't necessarily ruin what could be a good album, but I do miss the variety and diversity in their songs and how they changed from heavy to soft in a few seconds.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2014 on: July 21, 2014, 01:07:10 PM »
I totally get that, and I agree that the contrast is largely what made them so great when they were at their best.  But I can still appreciate something like Damnation for what it is, even though that contrast was gone. 

Like I have said before, I like, but don't love, Heritage; it lacked anything I would call one of their best 20-30 songs.  It's a nice listen, but there is nothing on there that kicks my ass six ways from Sunday. Even the best song on there, Folklore, is kind of a herky jerky thing, as the first few minutes are building up nicely, and then it suddenly veers off into this mellow section, before ending in a really cool way. Those sudden turns are trademarks of Opeth, but even though I like that song quite a bit, it seemed very herky jerky in that regard that time.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2015 on: July 21, 2014, 01:21:01 PM »
I totally get that, and I agree that the contrast is largely what made them so great when they were at their best.  But I can still appreciate something like Damnation for what it is, even though that contrast was gone. 

Like I have said before, I like, but don't love, Heritage; it lacked anything I would call one of their best 20-30 songs.  It's a nice listen, but there is nothing on there that kicks my ass six ways from Sunday. Even the best song on there, Folklore, is kind of a herky jerky thing, as the first few minutes are building up nicely, and then it suddenly veers off into this mellow section, before ending in a really cool way. Those sudden turns are trademarks of Opeth, but even though I like that song quite a bit, it seemed very herky jerky in that regard that time.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head here, and I agree 100%. Heritage is not bad, and in fact I would say most songs on the album are more to the positive side than negative. But it really lacks standout songs. Most of the songs are "good but not great", and you don't make a masterpiece album by only having "good" songs. You need those standouts.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2016 on: July 21, 2014, 01:31:31 PM »


Adding to this point, IMO, the issue with the modern sound isn't the lack of growls but the lack of proper extreme dynamics that I'm used to from Opeth.  I'm talking sweet beautiful acoustic guitars and swirling vocal melodies that suddenly open up into gut-wrenching bombastic guitars and drums.  The pendulum would swing back and forth without disorientation in shockingly natural way.  It's the signature attribute of Opeth that no other band has been able to bottle up and replicate.

Sadly, the pendulum in Pale Communion and Heritage seems to have been shoved by a father who has been helping their children on swings for twenty years.  Opeth has had enough, but the kid in me wants to go higher.

That's a hilarious way to put it.  Even though I don't mind the lack of growls and heaviness, that's a great analogy. :tup :tup
See, I would say that element is back on PC, although not nearly as intensely of course because nothing on the album really gets properly heavy. I agree it was one of the things missing from Heritage though.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2017 on: July 21, 2014, 05:43:12 PM »
^ agreed. I feel they could still go a little further with better contrasts without growls.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2018 on: July 22, 2014, 03:18:24 PM »
Lets hope Opeth returns to make some heavy music again. If Mikael does not want to growl, that doesn't necessarily ruin what could be a good album, but I do miss the variety and diversity in their songs and how they changed from heavy to soft in a few seconds.

Well, it's not only about the growls, i think Mikael got a bit tired of metal/heavy music in general.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2019 on: July 22, 2014, 08:54:32 PM »
Heritage still has that Opeth sound, but the contrast between heavy and calm  isn't so wide, in a way it's balanced just enough. I like how it only hits a certain point before getting calm, making you long for that higher peak. Heritage is a really laid back record, groovy with great bass and drums.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2020 on: July 23, 2014, 06:08:22 PM »
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2021 on: July 23, 2014, 08:23:20 PM »
 :lol

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2022 on: July 23, 2014, 08:26:26 PM »
I think we could photoshop 2/3rds of this board in that pick holding Steven. :lol
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2023 on: July 23, 2014, 10:07:52 PM »
I agree.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2024 on: July 23, 2014, 10:26:05 PM »


If they had released River as a single, that should have been the art. :lol
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2026 on: July 27, 2014, 10:09:25 AM »
Looks like we won't get another all-clean setlist: https://www.invisibleoranges.com/2014/07/interview-mikael-akerfeldt-opeth/
Quote
I remember specifically two years ago, you toured. I saw you at St. Andrew’s Hall and it was the tour where you played all the ballads. It was a lot of Heritage material as well, but it was all the ballads from the old records. And “The Throat of Winter,” which I never thought I’d hear you play ever because who the hell even knows you did that song, but I love that song. I think maybe people just weren’t expecting a tour of nothing but the ballads. I think maybe there was some sort of communication breakdown.

(laughs) Yeah, I guess there was. But you know for me, it was a bit of an eye-opener because I figured that part of the band is like all aspects of the band. And if you take one aspect of the band out of the equation for a show, I figured it’s no big deal because we’re playing all these old songs. For that tour, out of the 10-12 songs, however many songs we played, there were only one or two that we had ever played live before. There was a lot of unplayed material both new and old, so I figured that people might think that was interesting. Because we toured so much and we played all the songs from the previous records, all the heavy stuff.

But from pretty early on, I could tell that there were people in the crowd that were pretty upset about the fact that we didn’t play any of the heavier stuff. So it’s like if you take this thing out of the equation, then people don’t like you anymore, regardless of what songs you play from the past. We played a song from the first album, but nobody cared, it didn’t matter, because we didn’t do any of the death metal songs. So that was a bit of an eye-opener for me.

I don’t really have many regrets when it comes to how we choose to play our cards, but one thing I regret was that we did that tour because of the fact that people were not happy. And when we’re playing live, I don’t care about artistic type of things, like why we write the music and things like that, I just want everyone to enjoy themselves. When we record a record, it’s about what we want to do. But when we go out and play, I want everyone to enjoy themselves. And they weren’t on that tour. So if I have any regrets, it’s doing that tour. I don’t think we would do that now.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2027 on: July 27, 2014, 10:33:27 AM »
Wow, I'm actually pleasantly surprised.

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When we record a record, it’s about what we want to do. But when we go out and play, I want everyone to enjoy themselves.

Exactly. Live shows are for the fans.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2028 on: July 27, 2014, 10:54:42 AM »
I think it's a nice approach. Overall I think artists should play what they want to play first, but dragging out all heavy songs for only clean is kinda drastic. The best way IMO is to find a balance of having both what you wanna play yourself, and something for the fans. I don't think the fans win if you play only songs they want to hear, and you're clearly not into it during the concert. It always feels better when you can tell the musicians are enjoying themselves as well.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!
« Reply #2029 on: July 27, 2014, 12:16:28 PM »
Wow, I'm actually pleasantly surprised.

Quote
When we record a record, it’s about what we want to do. But when we go out and play, I want everyone to enjoy themselves.

Exactly. Live shows are for the fans.
This.