[Music] Dream Theater - Black Clouds & Silver Linings

[Scurvy!Dreams]

You must be having a bad morning bosk1, because you completely overreacted and were a total dick. A bit of negativity towards 2 tracks and SC isn't a "big middle finger" to you or the band. This is a completely reasonable review that in no way should be misconstrued as insulting, especially since it's largely positive.


And no, you don't need to state "IMO" in any posts, never mind a personal review, it just goes without saying.

[ariich]

This thread confuzzles me! Has much of it (e.g. the first paragraph) been re-written at all?

Anyway in its current form I think it's a well written review, as I've come to expect from you TOX. However, two points I strongly disagree with:
1) That DT aren't great at doing metal. They've done plenty of good metal songs over the years, and even if you don't like either of the first two tracks, you brought that point up directly after lavishing praise on The Shattered Fortress, which is the heaviest song on the album!
2) That knowledge of the previous 12-step songs is mandatory for enjoyment of TSF. DT have always jumped around between riffs and ideas in some of their songs, but it has been especially prevalent in the 12-step songs. Look at the number of riffs that are crammed into TGP! Is that considered "copy/pasted", or knowledge of the riffs in advance? Of course not, and it's the same here. Obviously not one of us actually know what it'd be like to listed to the song without hearing any of the previous ones, but I actually think it'd be pretty good.

[Jamariquay]

On a related note, I think it'd be interesting to take someone whose first exposure to Dream Theater is BC&SL, and then, after first hearing The Shattered Fortress, seeing what he thinks of the previous 12SS songs (hearing those riffs in their original contexts). I suppose it'd be a lot like listening to Scenes From A Memory before hearing Metropolis, Pt. 1, come to think.

[Nick]

I think reviews especially need to be written with some sort of "factual" edge in them, because otherwise they look weak and unsure of themselves. Of course anyone who reads them should just automatically know that it is inherently the writers opinions that are being expressed, and there should really be no reason to point that out, and I don't fault TOX at all for his writing style in that regard.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

This thread confuzzles me! Has much of it (e.g. the first paragraph) been re-written at all?

Not really. A few words here and there, but that's it.

1) That DT aren't great at doing metal. They've done plenty of good metal songs over the years, and even if you don't like either of the first two tracks, you brought that point up directly after lavishing praise on The Shattered Fortress, which is the heaviest song on the album!

Good point. Plus, Awake is my favorite album of theirs! Maybe I should've said I think they're better when more prog?

2) That knowledge of the previous 12-step songs is mandatory for enjoyment of TSF. DT have always jumped around between riffs and ideas in some of their songs, but it has been especially prevalent in the 12-step songs. Look at the number of riffs that are crammed into TGP! Is that considered "copy/pasted", or knowledge of the riffs in advance? Of course not, and it's the same here. Obviously not one of us actually know what it'd be like to listed to the song without hearing any of the previous ones, but I actually think it'd be pretty good.

Well probably find out from a new fan at some point, methinks.

[ariich]

Good point. Plus, Awake is my favorite album of theirs! Maybe I should've said I think they're better when more prog?

Yeah that makes more sense. I still disagree, but less so, because they don't always get the straightforward metal style quite right IMO.

Well probably find out from a new fan at some point, methinks.

Yeah it'd be interesting to hear what new listeners have to say about it.

[Global Laziness]

Yeah it'd be interesting to hear what new listeners have to say about it.

I've wondered about that myself. I'd bet that it wouldn't sound forced or jumbled at all. (For the record, I personally don't think it does except in one spot, but it seems to be the prevailing opinion around here.)

[staveoffzombies]

I enjoy the album and very much like ANTR and ARoP...so obviously I disagree with you there.  But another well-written review. 

[shadowfex]

A nightmare to remember is an incredible song so I very much disagree with your rating of it.

However, it was an excellent review and I agree with everything you said about the count of tuscany, my god that song is good.

[antigoon]

This thread...what the fuck?

TOX, good review. I don't know what people are getting so uppity over. Don't take it to heart.

[skydivingninja]

Wow, I thought I posted in this thread...and I missed a total unfounded shitstorm.  TOX, don't worry about adding statements like "I think" or "in my opinion."  As Nick said, it makes the review unsure of itself.  I won a journalism award for a movie review once, and this was a rule I tried to follow as much as possible.  I agree with you on ANTR having unmemorable metal sections after the soft section, but I'm fairly fond of AROP, especially the bebot solo (I know, wtf?).  I can understand your worries of the band becoming "irrelevant."  One of my concerns was, when finding out the album had 4 12+ minute songs that they would be "cookie-cutter" DT epics like ITPOE was.  Thank God they proved me wrong.  I also can tell that your musical tastes have shifted away from this style, and that for you to enjoy BC&SL means its certainly succeeded.  Good review, as almost always 

[KevShmev]

My God, only on a DT forum, will a mod flip out over a review that gave their new record 3 1/2 stars out of 5.  Jesus H. Christ. 

[ariich]

My God, only on a DT forum, will a mod flip out over a review that gave their new record 3 1/2 stars out of 5.  Jesus H. Christ. 

Um, we've all moved on from that. It was a misunderstanding due to a lot of other shit going on at the time, and bosk apologised.

[TAC]

One of my concerns was, when finding out the album had 4 12+ minute songs that they would be "cookie-cutter" DT epics like ITPOE was. 

ITPOE was "cookie cutter".....really? How so?

..and not for nothing but TCOT isn't all that far off in structure from ITPOE, but I still wouldn't call either "cookie cutter".