Author Topic: Metal = Satan?  (Read 2585 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2012, 12:53:48 PM »
I have a hard time imagining anyway that somebody would worship a character out of a religion they seemingly don't care for. Strikes me more as a lack of imagination on the part of the accusers. Most of them are probably Wicca or something.

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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 12:58:06 PM »
also im pretty sure the faceless (possessed live drummer) or at least some of the members are atheists. therefore the devil doesn't exist to them. their last album was about aliens taking over the earth, and their next album is gonna be called 'autotheism' which is about living for yourself.


should provide alot of material for the video poster though

Offline wolfandwolfandwolf

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2012, 01:05:24 PM »
KISS was my favorite band when I was thirteen.  My best friend's dad (an old school Baptist pastor) told me that I worshiped the Knights In Satan's Service.
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Online yeshaberto

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2012, 01:20:43 PM »
KISS was my favorite band when I was thirteen.  My best friend's dad (an old school Baptist pastor) told me that I worshiped the Knights In Satan's Service.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one

Offline rumborak

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2012, 01:36:10 PM »
Looking at how KISS was considered satanic is pretty laughable these days.

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Offline jsem

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2012, 06:14:47 PM »
WASP too.. bunch of White Anglo Saxon Protestants...

Offline El Barto

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2012, 06:33:02 PM »
WASP too.. bunch of White Anglo Saxon Protestants...
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The beautiful part of it is that Blackie Lawless completely schooled all those ass-hats.  Their music was never good enough to stand on it's own, yet I sure as hell had their albums and went to see them proudly wearing my FUCK LIKE A BEAST shirt, due in large part to the spectacular amount of completely free publicity Tipper Gore and Susan Baker gave them.  If Blackie has money to live off of nowadays, he earned it all by exploiting the irrational fears of the people who couldn't do any better than to make up stupid acronyms for their name, and more power to him for that one.

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2012, 10:08:06 PM »
Man I remember the bag over that W.A.S.P. album.  i hid it from my parents but as I got older I realized they wouldn't have flipped out about it.

I remember all the old stories the religious groups tried to scare us with.

Alice Cooper collecting all the spit in a jar to drink onstage.

Gene Simmons kicking Shawn Cassidy in the face with his demon boots.  (Like he wore them around town without makeup.) :lol
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 02:24:49 AM »
I'm not saying that anyone calling themselves an atheist is a devil worshiper.   

But to be fair...

Before I became a Christian, I was in a thrash metal band, and was friends and acquaintances of a few people that would privately (among friends) state that they followed the teachings of Lucifer.    But publicly, they always said they were atheists.     

That's just my personal experience.  Your mileage may very.      Again, I'm not saying that everyone who says they are an atheist worships the devil... (that would be stupid)....but based on my personal experience, a person publicly proclaiming themselves to be an atheist is not itself *PROOF* that they aren't followers of the devil. 

Having said that, I agree that I don't think I've heard a single one of those old stories that I don't now think are completely apocryphal.   
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 02:59:14 AM »
Generally, I see three greater trends among churches with regard to dealing with secular music:

1) Secular music is fine; let your Christians listen to it if they want to.  Christian music and secular music serve different purposes, and trust your Christians to understand the difference.
2) Secular music is bad, and your Christians shouldn't be listening to it.  While secular music isn't strictly Satanic, a lot of it endorses evil lifestyles, and your Christians would be better off not listening to it at all.
3) Secular music is evil, particular rock and metal music, most of whose artists have already made deals with the devil.  Satan is literally using them to corrupt your children.

The first and second approaches I'm ambivalent about, and I'm sure you can find scriptural support for both.  It's when you start using the third approach that things get stupid. :lol

FUN FACT:  Did you know that Satanism doesn't necessarily imply Satan-worshipping?  Theistic Satanism, where you view the devil as an entity to be worshipped, is extremely uncommon and poorly documented.  That's no surprise, since the text the devil comes from predicts his ultimate demise!  Generally, when you hear talk about legitimate Satanism, people are talking about Atheistic Satanism, usually LaVeyan Satanism, which is fairly popular and whose central tenets are really not all that objectionable.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2012, 10:34:04 AM »
people that would privately (among friends) state that they followed the teachings of Lucifer.    But publicly, they always said they were atheists.     

What *are* the teachings of Lucifer? I mean, the guy is really only a somewhat alluded-to figure in the Bible, right?

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2012, 10:40:06 AM »
people that would privately (among friends) state that they followed the teachings of Lucifer.    But publicly, they always said they were atheists.     

What *are* the teachings of Lucifer? I mean, the guy is really only a somewhat alluded-to figure in the Bible, right?

rumborak
I'd be willing to bet those people couldn't really answer.  My experience with such people was that it was more of trendy thing to say/do than an actual set of beliefs. 

Offline jammindude

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2012, 10:51:29 AM »
people that would privately (among friends) state that they followed the teachings of Lucifer.    But publicly, they always said they were atheists.     

What *are* the teachings of Lucifer? I mean, the guy is really only a somewhat alluded-to figure in the Bible, right?

rumborak

Well, I would only philosophize a bit with them.  But Luciferians can be a bit elitist in my experience.    They essentially regard "satan worshipers" (the guys who sacrifice goats in the middle of a pentagram) to be an absolute joke who have no idea who the devil is, or what they are even doing.    The true teachings of the devil is that each man is a god...and only you have the power to decide what is right and wrong for yourself.   You should have the freedom to do whatever you want to do, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.  (with the exception of a person who wants to get hurt....don't laugh, they are out there)    Then, through philosophy and open discussion, attempt to win people over to this way of thinking.     That is all the devil wants.  Luciferians set the devil up as the "savior" that rescued them from God's "oppression"....that is, God's right to decide what is right and wrong for his creation.    That's why Luciferians use that name for the devil, because it means "light bearer".   They believe spiritual light comes from the devil, not God. 
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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2012, 10:56:13 AM »
seems like a perfectly fine set of beliefs. it must be annoying if you are into that and everyone thinks its all about sacrificing goats, 666, etc.

Offline El JoNNo

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2012, 11:09:58 AM »
This thread reminds me of the time I had Pastor and his family living next door. Their grandchildren were other and playing in the backyard while listening to music. This would normally be fine except the CD was a mix cd of metal. More specifically all songs about hell; you know AD/DC - Hell's Bells, Highway to Hell and Judas Priest Hell bent for leather etc. etc.. Well their grandmother (Pastors wife) came out and just started ripping into them about how she was sick of hearing about hell. Made my day. lol

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2012, 02:03:22 PM »
Quote
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want to do, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.   


More people should live this way. 

Offline theseoafs

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2012, 02:07:08 PM »
Quote
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want to do, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.   


More people should live this way.

 :tup

I'm no Satanist, but "do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else" is really the basis of my philosophy and my morality.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2012, 02:55:09 PM »
Quote
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want to do, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.   


More people should live this way.

Is this why hard-core republicans don't like/trust libertarians? Yeah, off topic but, it provoked my thought.
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2012, 02:56:17 PM »
...What?
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2012, 03:19:27 PM »
Everyone is just jumping on board without really thinking it through.   It is *absolute* moral relativism.    I mean...public masturbation doesn't hurt anyone...but...ewww...

The philosophy is just a step below anarchy.   

I believe that we were created to *NEED* God's guidance....that we were never created with the ability to decide right and wrong for ourselves *without God's guidance*.    I believe that my life has been improved because I rejected my own sense of right and wrong, and accepted God's.     God's guidance involved self-sacrifice.   There is no self sacrifice in Luciferianism.   
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2012, 03:22:37 PM »
I mean...public masturbation doesn't hurt anyone...but...ewww...

I think it's pretty obvious that masturbating in front of unconsenting people hurts them.  I think literally everybody who isn't socio- or psychopathic agrees about that.

Not making sexual advances on people who don't want it is one of the commandments of Atheistic Satanism that I posted earlier anyway.

EDIT: Honestly, I'm kind of worried that you think public masturbation doesn't hurt anyone. :lol
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 03:35:20 PM by theseoafs »
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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2012, 03:57:42 PM »
did god ever address public masturbation?

Offline theseoafs

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2012, 04:37:16 PM »
Nah.  I think you'd group it in with regular masturbation, a sin in itself, though it seems odd to me to claim that the problem with public masturbation is that you're masturbating.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2012, 04:47:54 PM »
I mean...public masturbation doesn't hurt anyone...but...ewww...

I think it's pretty obvious that masturbating in front of unconsenting people hurts them.  I think literally everybody who isn't socio- or psychopathic agrees about that.
Christ, that explains everything.   :facepalm:

Offline theseoafs

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2012, 06:33:28 PM »
I mean...public masturbation doesn't hurt anyone...but...ewww...

I think it's pretty obvious that masturbating in front of unconsenting people hurts them.  I think literally everybody who isn't socio- or psychopathic agrees about that.
Christ, that explains everything.   :facepalm:
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2012, 10:47:43 PM »
Youtube has a lot of really good videos of some intelligent and articulate rock/rap people just destroying right wingers back in the 80's during the PMRC craze.  Anybody who hasn't seen Dee Snider dismantle Al Gore and a House oversight committee should really spend a few minutes watching this.  It's just fucking astonishing that one of these people actually won a presidential election, and one's still not taken very seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FbBpvoYKpc


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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2012, 11:35:33 PM »
This probably sounds extreme, but I think the PMRC was basically a dictatorship in the making. It's disgusting how a group committed to undermining the 1st Amendment was given such sweeping authority, and how the PMRC served as the Christian right's foothold in the government.

Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2012, 01:55:16 AM »
This probably sounds extreme, but I think the PMRC was basically a dictatorship in the making. It's disgusting how a group committed to undermining the 1st Amendment was given such sweeping authority, and how the PMRC served as the Christian right's foothold in the government.
Well, *someone* had to think of the children.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2012, 06:52:00 AM »
Youtube has a lot of really good videos of some intelligent and articulate rock/rap people just destroying right wingers back in the 80's during the PMRC craze.  Anybody who hasn't seen Dee Snider dismantle Al Gore and a House oversight committee should really spend a few minutes watching this.  It's just fucking astonishing that one of these people actually won a presidential election, and one's still not taken very seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FbBpvoYKpc
That reminded me of this debate with Frank Zappa that is just ridiculous! Frank is amazing in this!
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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2012, 08:22:44 AM »
i love how dee just shows up in that outfit. hilarious

Offline El Barto

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2012, 09:57:35 AM »
I saw an interview with him about it, and nearly every aspect of his testimony was planned for effect, including what he wore.  He knew that they'd be thinking he was going to be a pushover and he wanted to play up to that.  I loved how he took his prepared remarks on a piece of folded up notebook paper in his back pocket, like he was in high school or something. 

Still, the dude was an incredibly sharp witness.  He was personable, a good listener, and excellent at thinking on his feet.  He said a couple of things off the cuff that he completely knocked out of the park. 

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2012, 11:04:18 AM »
Everyone is just jumping on board without really thinking it through.   It is *absolute* moral relativism.   


*thinks it through*


*jumps on board*



Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2012, 11:51:38 AM »
i loved the part where the guy asked him about 'the senator's wife'

Offline bosk1

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2012, 12:01:08 PM »
Dee is my hero.  However, one area where I differ from him is that I actually like and have always been in favor of the "parental advisory" labels.  Granted, the PMRC wanted to go much further and use those to have certain albums banned for certain age groups, etc.  But both as a consumer and as a parent, I like that the labels are there.  Dee makes the point that it is a parent's responsibility to listen to what their kids are listening to and make sure they are comfortable that it is not inconsistent with the values they are trying to instill in their kids.  The labels help with that.  They tell me as a parent, "okay, let me MAKE SURE I listen to this one, and pay a bit closer attention."  Same with as a consumer.  Even as a kid, if something was profanity laden, I would be less likely to want to own it.  So it's good knowing that going it because, rather than just making the blind purchase, the label raises the warning flag that makes me go and try to listen to it before buying and see whether or not it truly crosses the line.  I get the argument that putting those labels on albums "backfires as a means of punishing the band" and makes the kids want the albums even more, which means they'll sell even more copies.  I don't really care about that.  If the motive of putting those stickers on is to "punish the band," that's a stupid motive, and I'm kind of glad it would be a failed effort.  But whatever the purpose of putting the labels on albums, again, I find it helpful to me as a consumer and as a parent, so I think it's all good.

EDIT:  As an example, I'll take Barry's last Anabasis album.  (which is a stellar album by the way, and I highly recommend it)  Let's say, for example, that I knew nothing about it, and my kid asks me to buy it for him.  In one scenario, I look at it, and it has no parential warning label on it.  No red flags.  I pop it in.  Starts off with a cool 14+ minute epic about Romans.  Cool!  History and good prog rock together.  I like it.  Then a ballad, and then another short song, and then a cool 17 1/2 minute epic about Vikings.  YES!  :leaveseyes:  By now, honestly, I'm probably not even paying very close attention to lyrics specifically, since there was no warning label and no other red flags.  And I might either stop listening if I'm busy, or just kinda have it on in the background and tune out while I'm doing other stuff, and think it's all good.  It's entirely possible that I will entirely miss the fact that there is a song much later in the album that has some VERY blatant profanity and some very explicit lyrics about some very adult subjects (and for good reason, I might add--the very explicit lyrics are there on purpose to make a very specific point and to convey very specific emotions that are entirely appropriate to the song, as I came to understand).  Alternate scenario:  The label is on the album, so that tips me off that I need to play closer attention.  Now I'm more likely to listen more closely and to scrutinize the lyrics sheet or to find the lyrics online.  And this helps me as a parent to do one of the following:  (1) determine the album is not appropriate for my child, (2) determine that parts of the album are appropriate, but that I will make a copy for my child to listen to that does not include that song, (3) determine that it is fine for them to listen to, but that we should discuss the song that I have concerns about, or (4) something else that gives me a comfort level as a parent that I am doing my job and being engaged in what my kids are doing and that I am helping guide them appropriately.  (and in case I didn't mention it, The Anabasis' album is fantastic, and I highly recommend it)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:14:02 PM by bosk1 »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Metal = Satan?
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2012, 12:06:20 PM »
I totally agree, bosk. Overall, forcing companies to label their products so the consumer can make an informed decision right on the spot is one of those things where I am all for curtailing the market, whatever it might be.

rumborak
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