The future of Ytse Jam Records

[Setlist Scotty]

Regarding the Metal Sludge interview that you cited, MP himself stated point blank that he specifically gave over the top answers knowing that the interview was for Metal Sludge. Not to say that MP wasn't disappointed with Peart's reaction to the Rush tribute - he was - but what he said was exaggerated for Metal Sludge. Besides, if MP still had zero respect for Peart, do you think he would have written the liner notes to the Japanese version of Vapor Trails back in 2002? Do you think he would call Neil a good friend, like he has now for several years? I can't imagine it.

I'm sorry if this is something somewhat akin to basic knowledge, but why would Mike exaggerate such a claim when speaking to a certain magazine? No matter if it was true or not, saying something like that sounds a bit respectless.

Mike knows that Metal Sludge is kind of like Blabbermouth - essentially an online tabloid metal website. Knowing that, he played up his responses knowing that was specifically what they would have wanted. It's for that same reason that when asked what he spent his largest check on, he responded "I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!" Having just gotten sober months ago (as he acknowledged in another question about which alcohol he would choose), the last thing he would do is get cocaine, not to mention a lot of it. The interview was never intended to be taken completely seriously because of what the Metal Sludge website is.

[TheGreatPretender]

Mike knows that Metal Sludge is kind of like Blabbermouth - essentially an online tabloid metal website. Knowing that, he played up his responses knowing that was specifically what they would have wanted. It's for that same reason that when asked what he spent his largest check on, he responded "I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!" Having just gotten sober months ago (as he acknowledged in another question about which alcohol he would choose), the last thing he would do is get cocaine, not to mention a lot of it. The interview was never intended to be taken completely seriously because of what the Metal Sludge website is.

For someone who's as socially involved as Mike, I think he should know better than to make those types of comments. I mean, that's HIS sense of humor, but unless the people reading are his close friends, that kind of stuff can easily be taken out of context and he should know that. It's not about clamming up and not saying anything about anything, it's just about discretion. Besides, it's a little different. The cocaine thing, it's pretty obvious that it's a joke, but to read, "I lost all respect for such and such because they don't like me," CAN be taken literally, and quoted by mislead forum members on certain websites.

[Scorpion]

Mike knows that Metal Sludge is kind of like Blabbermouth - essentially an online tabloid metal website. Knowing that, he played up his responses knowing that was specifically what they would have wanted. It's for that same reason that when asked what he spent his largest check on, he responded "I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!" Having just gotten sober months ago (as he acknowledged in another question about which alcohol he would choose), the last thing he would do is get cocaine, not to mention a lot of it. The interview was never intended to be taken completely seriously because of what the Metal Sludge website is.

For someone who's as socially involved as Mike, I think he should know better than to make those types of comments. I mean, that's HIS sense of humor, but unless the people reading are his close friends, that kind of stuff can easily be taken out of context and he should know that. It's not about clamming up and not saying anything about anything, it's just about discretion. Besides, it's a little different. The cocaine thing, it's pretty obvious that it's a joke, but to read, "I lost all respect for such and such because they don't like me," CAN be taken literally, and quoted by mislead forum members on certain websites.

Yeah, this. Beat me to it.

[Setlist Scotty]

For someone who's as socially involved as Mike, I think he should know better than to make those types of comments. I mean, that's HIS sense of humor, but unless the people reading are his close friends, that kind of stuff can easily be taken out of context and he should know that. It's not about clamming up and not saying anything about anything, it's just about discretion. Besides, it's a little different. The cocaine thing, it's pretty obvious that it's a joke, but to read, "I lost all respect for such and such because they don't like me," CAN be taken literally, and quoted by mislead forum members on certain websites.

Understand where you're coming from, but you forget the climate in which this interview was done, 12 years ago. Back then, the DT fan community was pretty small in comparison to what it is today. The Ytsejam Mailing List was very active as were the fan clubs with their fanzines, and it had been less than a year before that MP's website started up. Therefore it was much easier to correct people when something was taken out of context.

Also, back then MP wasn't the whipping boy that he is today, so being worried about being misquoted was not something I imagine he gave much thought to. Had he had the forethought then to know something he said would be taken at face value 12 years later, maybe he would have worded it differently. But again, the established facts speak for themselves - MP and Peart are good friends which means any respect he may have lost was found, and then some.

[TheGreatPretender]

I dunno, I would think at a time like that, it would be all the more important to not make comments like that. I mean, if MP didn't have a website, and the community wasn't as big, then if something like that WAS to be taken out of context, wouldn't it be all the more difficult to clear the air about it?

[Setlist Scotty]

I dunno, I would think at a time like that, it would be all the more important to not make comments like that. I mean, if MP didn't have a website, and the community wasn't as big, then if something like that WAS to be taken out of context, wouldn't it be all the more difficult to clear the air about it?

Not at all - smaller fanbase means less people will know about said interview, and less people to notify not to take said interview 100% literally. The music community wasn't what it is today - back then you had the fanzines, the mailing list and MP's forum - pretty simple. These days, not only are there numerous DT-related websites, but numerous other music-related websites where fans discuss stuff. Try to let everyone know these days would be impossible given all the outlets for discussion.

[Siberian Khatru]

That's what I'm getting at though, Scotty. Mike seems to know that, at the end of the day, us internet folk are just people shooting shit about bands they like/listen to. There's nothing about it that needs to be taken too seriously. But because people get defensive, or overreact, it happens anyway. With Mike's fans especially. Although Mike himself seems like he's been pretty guilty of dishing it out without being able to take it, as most people are.

[robwebster]

I know what you mean, internet-wise. It happens everywhere, it's the law of the internet. We talk about people from a distance, of course we're not 100% polite all the time, and of course we talk openly about things we're not happy with, and we speculate, and rumours circulate and mild resentment has a tendency to boil like a bad smell. I get that, it's fine, it's fair, it's inevitable. And if it wasn't Mike it would've been someone else. Hell, it was Jordan Rudess for several years. While I completely understand the culture I don't think that's carte blanche to bite repeatedly at a hand that fed you pretty sumptuously for 20 years.

Like Scotty - I've been frequently... agog, following some of Mike's less graceful outbursts. I don't currently follow him on Twitter, I don't post on his message board... I wish him all the best, love Flying Colors to bits, and while I don't always like it I completely understand why he's not always in St. Michael of Berklee mode right now. Man's had a lot of rugs pulled out from under him in quick succession, it takes a while to pick yourself up.

I think there's an element of awareness. We know he reads the boards. He spends hours upon hours in tour buses with the world of electronic media at his disposal, of course his eye's going to occasionally drift to the biggest online community dedicated to his band of twenty-five years. And I wouldn't even ask that anyone mince words. Feel free to call him out on things he's actually done - I remember when Mike was posting around here, you, Kev, for instance, you were very firm but very polite and respectful and had a very cool, frank chat with him. You both came off well, think it did you both a lot of good. That's what I really like about DTF - we do have full discussions about all aspects of the band for better or for worse. There's no subject that's off limits - if someone really fucking hates Scenes from a Memory, they can make a thread about it, and we'll spend the next two weeks chucking pros and cons at each other. That, quite rightly, includes the behaviour and demeanour of members, ex-members, Kevin Moore, John Petrucci - David Bleeding Prater! It's good. Tip top. Keep it up.

What I don't like, though, is when stuff gets regurgitated. When we start making things up. You can see it mutating. "He could've spared a bit more thought for James LaBrie, there" becomes, in the light of a departure, "Mike was a bit rude to James LaBrie, releasing that," which is remembered two months later as "That's a fucking spiteful thing to do," and then another two months later someone remembers the comment, completely innocuous but covered in barbs, as "Oh yeah, the 98 show, that's the one Mike released to piss off JLB yeah?"

It's just worth remembering these are humans you're talking about, and they read this, they're interested in what you have to say - and that once they shut the laptop down they won't always be able to turn your comments off. I'm sure a lot of the natter would remain exactly the same, and the website's all the better for it, but I find speculation a little crass, and we're at the point where Mike Portnoy's all but been assigned an ulterior motive for releasing a show that he'll have plunged hours into finding for the fans, mastering, and writing liner notes, all for precious little profit. Do talk freely, but we're at the stage where we're not only seeing rumours tossed around, but a basically nice act is slowly being rewritten into a basically spiteful one simply, I presume, because we're a little low on any other ammo. Which is nobody's fault, and nobody's doing it consciously... but I'll admit to being fairly uncomfortable with the direction, and I'm very glad Scotty's spoken up cos I was thinking "Is there something I'm not quite getting, here?"

I'm glad we're on a site where a thread like this can exist, but... come on, guys. This is another person we're talking about. And one who, regardless of how you might see the last two years or so, has spent a lot of time trying to make us happy. You know he cares what we think - let's not talk about him like he's some sort of comic book villain.

[BlobVanDam]

I know you probably think this forum is full of "MP haters" who hate on the guy for no reason, but the fact that that story seemed so believable speaks volumes.  Had it been Petrucci or Rudess or Myung, it would have sounded completely out of character and not at all believable, but in the case of Portnoy, it sounded totally believable.  You have to remember that for all of the criticism he gets, it's not like all of us woke up one day and decided to start criticizing Mike Portnoy for shits and giggles.  Most of the criticism he has gotten over the years, even prior to his DT departure, he brought on himself.  I know you are his friend, so I don't expect you to totally see it that way, but I am just saying.

I'm sorry, but the fact that story seemed that believable to you speaks more to me about your opinion of MP than any actual truth about MP, because that story read like such utter nonsense to me that there's no way it could be accepted at face value even given MP's recent behaviour, especially after finding out its source. The fact here is this story was completely false, and yet you're still trying to somehow twist it into more evidence against MP.

Quite frankly, too much about MP around here lately is based on "oh well it seems like something I think he would do, so therefore I'll believe it", and then these rumours pile up and fuel further negative attitude and rumours against MP.
Sure, MP has made some huge mistakes since leaving DT, and that's valid reason enough to think very negatively about him, but that's no fair excuse for lacking objectivity, and when we're at the point of seriously believing that MP was intentionally trying to sabotage JLB with the official bootlegs because he didn't want him in the band, or was verbally abusing JLB on stage mid-song, and just generally believing crazy stories without any attempt to verify them first (even when the proof is only a few posts down the very same page), we're well beyond reasonably and neutrally someone based on a pattern of behaviour. This is getting to the point of revisionist history to further degrade MP, and rumours fueling more rumours, and it's becoming a vicious cycle that's a bit unfair, even given MP's very questionable behaviour since leaving DT. Some of the claims in this thread are basically nothing more than conspiracy theories.

And also agreed with everything rob and Scotty have said.

[Siberian Khatru]

I don't think the story read like "utter nonsense". There's a video floating around of Mike flipping out at James (or John?) for missing his cue during "Forsaken", so maybe the original poster was getting the stories mixed up?

But I do agree with the idea that Mike shouldn't be turned into a comic book villain. I tend to veer on the side of being "fed up" with Mike's antics, but I think I've tried to be as objective as possible and considerate of the other side with all my posts.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think the story read like "utter nonsense". There's a video floating around of Mike flipping out at James (or John?) for missing his cue during "Forsaken", so maybe the original poster was getting the stories mixed up?

There's also a performance of Metropolis (I think it might be on the In Constant Motion DVD?) where JLB comes back in too early for the final verse of Metropolis and cuts off the instrumental play-off, and MP gets annoyed and yells out "HEY!" at him.
But I still don't for a second believe that MP would yell out "what the fuck are you doing?" at JLB, and then argue with him mid song, especially to the point of JLB leaving the stage and not singing his part. MP is more of a professional than that, and so is JLB. A quick shout out to a band member to call attention to a missed cue is different to berating a band member to the point of them storming off stage.
The details of this particular story sounded very fishy to me, and my gut instinct was right. This is why I only trust fact, and don't put any faith in rumour.

[Implode]

And if that story were true, it would've been a big enough deal that we all would've known about it already.

[MoraWintersoul]

Quite frankly, too much about MP around here lately is based on "oh well it seems like something I think he would do, so therefore I'll believe it", and then these rumours pile up and fuel further negative attitude and rumours against MP.

I don't know how anyone would think that's something he would do at all. I mean, they gave James the wake-up call somewhere around... 2003? It's hard to believe that their relations afterwards would be as damaged as they were described here for almost ten years without the whole thing blowing up.

[KevShmev]

I know what you mean, internet-wise. It happens everywhere, it's the law of the internet. We talk about people from a distance, of course we're not 100% polite all the time, and of course we talk openly about things we're not happy with, and we speculate, and rumours circulate and mild resentment has a tendency to boil like a bad smell. I get that, it's fine, it's fair, it's inevitable. And if it wasn't Mike it would've been someone else. Hell, it was Jordan Rudess for several years. While I completely understand the culture I don't think that's carte blanche to bite repeatedly at a hand that fed you pretty sumptuously for 20 years.

Like Scotty - I've been frequently... agog, following some of Mike's less graceful outbursts. I don't currently follow him on Twitter, I don't post on his message board... I wish him all the best, love Flying Colors to bits, and while I don't always like it I completely understand why he's not always in St. Michael of Berklee mode right now. Man's had a lot of rugs pulled out from under him in quick succession, it takes a while to pick yourself up.

I think there's an element of awareness. We know he reads the boards. He spends hours upon hours in tour buses with the world of electronic media at his disposal, of course his eye's going to occasionally drift to the biggest online community dedicated to his band of twenty-five years. And I wouldn't even ask that anyone mince words. Feel free to call him out on things he's actually done - I remember when Mike was posting around here, you, Kev, for instance, you were very firm but very polite and respectful and had a very cool, frank chat with him. You both came off well, think it did you both a lot of good. That's what I really like about DTF - we do have full discussions about all aspects of the band for better or for worse. There's no subject that's off limits - if someone really fucking hates Scenes from a Memory, they can make a thread about it, and we'll spend the next two weeks chucking pros and cons at each other. That, quite rightly, includes the behaviour and demeanour of members, ex-members, Kevin Moore, John Petrucci - David Bleeding Prater! It's good. Tip top. Keep it up.

What I don't like, though, is when stuff gets regurgitated. When we start making things up. You can see it mutating. "He could've spared a bit more thought for James LaBrie, there" becomes, in the light of a departure, "Mike was a bit rude to James LaBrie, releasing that," which is remembered two months later as "That's a fucking spiteful thing to do," and then another two months later someone remembers the comment, completely innocuous but covered in barbs, as "Oh yeah, the 98 show, that's the one Mike released to piss off JLB yeah?"

It's just worth remembering these are humans you're talking about, and they read this, they're interested in what you have to say - and that once they shut the laptop down they won't always be able to turn your comments off. I'm sure a lot of the natter would remain exactly the same, and the website's all the better for it, but I find speculation a little crass, and we're at the point where Mike Portnoy's all but been assigned an ulterior motive for releasing a show that he'll have plunged hours into finding for the fans, mastering, and writing liner notes, all for precious little profit. Do talk freely, but we're at the stage where we're not only seeing rumours tossed around, but a basically nice act is slowly being rewritten into a basically spiteful one simply, I presume, because we're a little low on any other ammo. Which is nobody's fault, and nobody's doing it consciously... but I'll admit to being fairly uncomfortable with the direction, and I'm very glad Scotty's spoken up cos I was thinking "Is there something I'm not quite getting, here?"

I'm glad we're on a site where a thread like this can exist, but... come on, guys. This is another person we're talking about. And one who, regardless of how you might see the last two years or so, has spent a lot of time trying to make us happy. You know he cares what we think - let's not talk about him like he's some sort of comic book villain.

Well said as always, man, and there is probably a lot of truth in there, but a point of mine all along has been that so many always wanted to give him tons of credit for all that went right when he was running the ship, but whenever something went wrong, they never wanted to give him the blame, and I always said you can't have it both ways.  If someone has so much control that they get all of the praise when things goes right, then they should get all of the blame when things go wrong.  That is what I have always said.  And when you position yourself the way he did, where he was on top of the pyramid running the show, you have to be ready to take the praise AND the blame.

I know you probably think this forum is full of "MP haters" who hate on the guy for no reason, but the fact that that story seemed so believable speaks volumes.  Had it been Petrucci or Rudess or Myung, it would have sounded completely out of character and not at all believable, but in the case of Portnoy, it sounded totally believable.  You have to remember that for all of the criticism he gets, it's not like all of us woke up one day and decided to start criticizing Mike Portnoy for shits and giggles.  Most of the criticism he has gotten over the years, even prior to his DT departure, he brought on himself.  I know you are his friend, so I don't expect you to totally see it that way, but I am just saying.

I'm sorry, but the fact that story seemed that believable to you speaks more to me about your opinion of MP than any actual truth about MP, because that story read like such utter nonsense to me that there's no way it could be accepted at face value even given MP's recent behaviour, especially after finding out its source. The fact here is this story was completely false, and yet you're still trying to somehow twist it into more evidence against MP.

Uh, no, but nice try.  I simply said why it came off as believable - because of his pattern of behavior.  And not just to me.  I was not on an island in thinking that that story sounded totally believable.  That is not twisting more evidence against him, FYI.

Quite frankly, too much about MP around here lately is based on "oh well it seems like something I think he would do, so therefore I'll believe it", and then these rumours pile up and fuel further negative attitude and rumours against MP.
Sure, MP has made some huge mistakes since leaving DT, and that's valid reason enough to think very negatively about him, but that's no fair excuse for lacking objectivity, and when we're at the point of seriously believing that MP was intentionally trying to sabotage JLB with the official bootlegs because he didn't want him in the band, or was verbally abusing JLB on stage mid-song, and just generally believing crazy stories without any attempt to verify them first (even when the proof is only a few posts down the very same page), we're well beyond reasonably and neutrally someone based on a pattern of behaviour. This is getting to the point of revisionist history to further degrade MP, and rumours fueling more rumours, and it's becoming a vicious cycle that's a bit unfair, even given MP's very questionable behaviour since leaving DT. Some of the claims in this thread are basically nothing more than conspiracy theories.

And also agreed with everything rob and Scotty have said.

Who is "we"? One or two people?  Certainly not me, as I already said this:

  I don't think Portnoy intentionally tried to make JLB look bad by releasing shows where he struggled mightily, but he still didn't do him any favors by releasing them.