'There's a certain relief with not having to own music. It's a lot of work'

[kirksnosehair]

To comment on the ownership issue:

I don't really buy CDs any more, but I still very strongly prefer to own my music.  I typically buy Amazon.com MP3 downloads.  They're DRM-free, so I can burn a CD to listen to in my car, I can dump it on my iPod to listen to in the gym, and I've got it on my PC and my laptop and my iPad so I can listen to it whenever I want, wherever I want, whether or not I have an internet connection.

I have Pandora on my iPad which I use when we have people over and I just want some middle-of-the-road background music, but for my personal music listening enjoyment, I will ALWAYS opt for ownership.

Ownership = More Options

Streaming = Less Options

[Ravenheart]

ITT:

STOP ENJOYING SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY THEN I DO

[Nick]

However in 95% of cases that won't be the case. It's hard to convince me you support something when you spend no money on it and it doesn't show up in a major part of your life (the way you live).

I disagree.  That's like saying 95% of people who use libraries instead of buying books aren't passionate about reading.

I agree this is a fair point, at least to the extent of saying that those library goers are active readers, but I would also say they aren't supporting authors. And it may be a bit of a dull point, but if you walk into their house, you may never even have an inkling they care about reading. On the other hand if you walk into a fully stocked study, or even see a nice e-reader, you know they obviously care a good bit about the people behind the art.

It's the music that matters, not the media that delivered it. A vinyl album and an internet stream, at the end of the day? Same fucking thing.

Well, technically it's the song song, generally the quality varies greatly between formats. And while I'm sure there are some premium internet streams out there, most don't sound that great.

And with one fucking ton more space in their rooms than I have right now.

Space to be used for something they seem to care about more than the music.

Ownership = More Options

Streaming = Less Options

That's a good general point, and a nice one to agree with ideological issues aside.

[Nick]

ITT:

STOP ENJOYING SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY THEN I DO

I would like to point out, I think streaming services do offer some fantastic conveniences and benefits and are certainly a good (thought not great) step away from illegal downloading and I'm certainly happy they exist. At the end of the day people will enjoy music however they wish and I once again am not begrudging them in any way for simply enjoying the music.

[Priest of Syrinx]

Well it's obviously relative. Compared to streaming, yeah, owning a physical collection of any considerable size is a lot of work.

No wonder people are fat. 

[ZeppelinDT]

Ownership = More Options

Streaming = Less Options

I think this works both ways.  On the one hand, yes, maybe it is true that there is more available to own than there is to stream.  But on the other hand, streaming provides for greater exposure than ownership.  So while it is true that, in the abstract, the overall scope of availability is broader with ownership, when you look at it realistically, streaming will allow the listener to be find and discover a significantly broader variety of music.

I mean, in my experience, I would say that, when I limited myself to ownership, then maybe I had more options AVAILABLE to me, but for all practical purposes, I feel like my options were much more limited, because my willingness to experiment and explore was limited to what I was willing to lay out money for in advance.

[Nick]

Ownership = More Options

Streaming = Less Options

I think this works both ways.  On the one hand, yes, maybe it is true that there is more available to own than there is to stream.  But on the other hand, streaming provides for greater exposure than ownership.  So while it is true that, in the abstract, the overall scope of availability is broader with ownership, when you look at it realistically, streaming will allow the listener to be find and discover a significantly broader variety of music.

Agree with all of this. Streaming does provide a greater avenue for artist discovery.

However it doesn't provide a greater avenue for artist support.

[Sigz]

Well it's obviously relative. Compared to streaming, yeah, owning a physical collection of any considerable size is a lot of work.

No wonder people are fat.

Yes, not buying CDs makes people fat.

[ZeppelinDT]

Agree with all of this. Streaming does provide a greater avenue for artist discovery.

However it doesn't provide a greater avenue for artist support.

How can you support an artist you haven't discovered?

[Aramatheis]

I think it's nice to be able to stream music, since it is quite convenient and (as previously mentioned 80 times) takes up no space, as opposed to vast libraries of music (be it in digital or physical form).


HOWEVER, streaming is absolutely useless if you can't access the internet, and because of that, I will never wholly switch to/use it.



I also enjoy owning physical copies of the music I like, since it:

• Supports the artist.
• Cannot simply be deleted like digital music can. This eliminates the need for re-purchase if your computer becomes unusable, etc.
• Is a physical representation of my tastes in music. I like being able to see (and show off! ) my CDs to friends/family/whoever.
• Cds, vinyl, cassettes, what-have-you, etc etc. can all be used to decorate your home, or fill and empty space in your home (with a nice CD rack, or milk crate of vinyl, for example).
• Every modern vehicle (or at least, the vast majority) have CD players in them, and I hate listening to the radio. I never drive without my music blaring.

All in all, I think owning physical and/or digital copies of music is entirely worth it. Physical copies are a good way to permanently keep your music, and digital copies are excellent for travelling/exercise and the like. In my opinion, streaming just isn't accessible enough (at least, for me) to use, since it relies on a (reliable) internet connection, takes up bandwidth (which the world is running out of!) and means I have to be attached to my computer/smartphone/tablet whenever I feel the need to listen to something.

[Priest of Syrinx]

Well it's obviously relative. Compared to streaming, yeah, owning a physical collection of any considerable size is a lot of work.

No wonder people are fat.

Yes, not buying CDs makes people fat.

Glad you agree with me! 

[Nick]

I think it's nice to be able to stream music, since it is quite convenient and (as previously mentioned 80 times) takes up no space, as opposed to vast libraries of music (be it in digital or physical form).


HOWEVER, streaming is absolutely useless if you can't access the internet, and because of that, I will never wholly switch to/use it.



I also enjoy owning physical copies of the music I like, since it:

• Supports the artist.
• Cannot simply be deleted like digital music can. This eliminates the need for re-purchase if your computer becomes unusable, etc.
• Is a physical representation of my tastes in music. I like being able to see (and show off! ) my CDs to friends/family/whoever.
• Cds, vinyl, cassettes, what-have-you, etc etc. can all be used to decorate your home, or fill and empty space in your home (with a nice CD rack, or milk crate of vinyl, for example).
• Every modern vehicle (or at least, the vast majority) have CD players in them, and I hate listening to the radio. I never drive without my music blaring.

All in all, I think owning physical and/or digital copies of music is entirely worth it. Physical copies are a good way to permanently keep your music, and digital copies are excellent for travelling/exercise and the like. In my opinion, streaming just isn't accessible enough (at least, for me) to use, since it relies on a (reliable) internet connection, takes up bandwidth (which the world is running out of!) and means I have to be attached to my computer/smartphone/tablet whenever I feel the need to listen to something.

For the most part, fantastic post!

Agree with all of this. Streaming does provide a greater avenue for artist discovery.

However it doesn't provide a greater avenue for artist support.

How can you support an artist you haven't discovered?

You can't? Never implied that you could, which is why I've said and will continue to say streaming has a great place in the world (though I'd like to see it improve in some areas).

[darkshade]

On the topic of books, CDs, and other media going digital, it's different for music because when you stream (and download? I don't usually download), the quality is lower than if you bought the physical copy.

[Nick]

On the topic of books, CDs, and other media going digital, it's different for music because when you stream (and download? I don't usually download), the quality is lower than if you bought the physical copy.

Well yes and no. On one hand it is unquestionably of lower quality (assuming we're not talking about the occasional FLAC download), but to people who don't care it won't make a difference, and will thus be a moot point.

[ZeppelinDT]

HOWEVER, streaming is absolutely useless if you can't access the internet, and because of that, I will never wholly switch to/use it.

Not really.  I stream through my phone using 3G.  I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before this will be the norm.

Cannot simply be deleted like digital music can. This eliminates the need for re-purchase if your computer becomes unusable, etc.

That's really irrelevant to streaming.

Every modern vehicle (or at least, the vast majority) have CD players in them, and I hate listening to the radio.

Is this true?  I'm pretty sure most modern cars actually DON'T have CD players in them anymore.  The CD player has gone the way of the cassette tape player.

...means I have to be attached to my computer/smartphone/tablet whenever I feel the need to listen to something.

And this is LESS convenient than having to be attached to a stereo/CD player?

You can't? Never implied that you could, which is why I've said and will continue to say streaming has a great place in the world (though I'd like to see it improve in some areas).

Nah... I know you didn't.  I guess I was just trying to point out that maybe streaming does provide a greater avenue for artist support, depending on how you look at it.  It's just a more indirect avenue.

[SystematicThought]

To answer Zep: Most cars nowadays have 1 CD slot and an input for an iPod. Luckily, I have a 2002, so I have a 6 CD player and even a cassette player. Since I still buy cassettes, I use it 

[Elite]

HOWEVER, streaming is absolutely useless if you can't access the internet, and because of that, I will never wholly switch to/use it.

Not really.  I stream through my phone using 3G.  I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before this will be the norm.

And 3G isn't a way of accessing the internet?

[ZeppelinDT]

I'm fairly certain that trend is changing.  Within the next couple of years, I'll be most cars DON'T have CD players.

[SystematicThought]

Which will be the day that I next cry...

[King Postwhore]

Maybe it's my age but I like to have a physical copy of the CD.  Yes I know when you download you can make a copy and it has a booklet, (That is a plus compaired to the small writting of a CD booklet) but I just love having the artwork.

[darkshade]

Guys, lets not worry about all this. On December 21, 2012, the sun will send out a massive solar flare towards the Earth that will wipe out all satellites and other means of electronic communication, thus, knocking out the internet, and people will have to resort to **GASP** buying CDs again!

[ZeppelinDT]

HOWEVER, streaming is absolutely useless if you can't access the internet, and because of that, I will never wholly switch to/use it.

Not really.  I stream through my phone using 3G.  I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before this will be the norm.

And 3G isn't a way of accessing the internet?

I guess it is, but I read the original post as more in connection with more "traditional" methods of connecting to the internet.  I feel like 3G/4G are becoming so pervasive that within a few years they'll be pretty much universal features on most portable phones.

[chrisbDTM]

Guys, lets not worry about all this. On December 21, 2012, the sun will send out a massive solar flare towards the Earth that will wipe out all satellites and other means of electronic communication, thus, knocking out the internet, and people will have to resort to **GASP** buying CDs again!

i read all your posts in jeff goldblum's voice. this one was good

[kirksnosehair]

Ownership = More Options

Streaming = Less Options

I think this works both ways.  On the one hand, yes, maybe it is true that there is more available to own than there is to stream.  But on the other hand, streaming provides for greater exposure than ownership.  So while it is true that, in the abstract, the overall scope of availability is broader with ownership, when you look at it realistically, streaming will allow the listener to be find and discover a significantly broader variety of music.

I mean, in my experience, I would say that, when I limited myself to ownership, then maybe I had more options AVAILABLE to me, but for all practical purposes, I feel like my options were much more limited, because my willingness to experiment and explore was limited to what I was willing to lay out money for in advance.

That argument would hold a lot more water if it were impossible to find the vast overwhelming majority of practically everything that has been professionally produced and released available to stream to your heart's content from YouTube.....but the reality is, you can find just about anything you want to hear samples of -full song samples, not just snippets- on YouTube and other than your internet connection service fee, you pay $0.00 in advance.

Last week alone I spent almost $200 on music and I only took a chance on maybe 5% of that material, since I was able to find and sample the vast majority of it on YouTube at no cost to me.

[darkshade]

Guys, lets not worry about all this. On December 21, 2012, the sun will send out a massive solar flare towards the Earth that will wipe out all satellites and other means of electronic communication, thus, knocking out the internet, and people will have to resort to **GASP** buying CDs again!

i read all your posts in jeff goldblum's voice. this one was good

 

[ZeppelinDT]

Ownership = More Options

Streaming = Less Options

I think this works both ways.  On the one hand, yes, maybe it is true that there is more available to own than there is to stream.  But on the other hand, streaming provides for greater exposure than ownership.  So while it is true that, in the abstract, the overall scope of availability is broader with ownership, when you look at it realistically, streaming will allow the listener to be find and discover a significantly broader variety of music.

I mean, in my experience, I would say that, when I limited myself to ownership, then maybe I had more options AVAILABLE to me, but for all practical purposes, I feel like my options were much more limited, because my willingness to experiment and explore was limited to what I was willing to lay out money for in advance.

That argument would hold a lot more water if it were impossible to find the vast overwhelming majority of practically everything that has been professionally produced and released available to stream to your heart's content from YouTube.....but the reality is, you can find just about anything you want to hear samples of -full song samples, not just snippets- on YouTube and other than your internet connection service fee, you pay $0.00 in advance.

Last week alone I spent almost $200 on music and I only took a chance on maybe 5% of that material, since I was able to find and sample the vast majority of it on YouTube at no cost to me.

How is YouTube not a form of streaming?

[Aramatheis]

HOWEVER, streaming is absolutely useless if you can't access the internet, and because of that, I will never wholly switch to/use it.

Not really.  I stream through my phone using 3G.  I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before this will be the norm.

Well, like Elite already said, 3G is still a way of accessing the Internet. And I for one don't own or wish to own a smartphone, so I wouldn't use that medium anyways.

Cannot simply be deleted like digital music can. This eliminates the need for re-purchase if your computer becomes unusable, etc.

That's really irrelevant to streaming.

I was listing the pros of owning/using physical copies. I was explaining what I like about physical copies, not what the differences between physical and streaming are.

Every modern vehicle (or at least, the vast majority) have CD players in them, and I hate listening to the radio.

Is this true?  I'm pretty sure most modern cars actually DON'T have CD players in them anymore.  The CD player has gone the way of the cassette tape player.

Where the fuck do you live? A super-advanced colony on the moon? Sure, more and more cars have input jacks for iPods and the like, but that's in ADDITION to CD players, not INSTEAD of them.

...means I have to be attached to my computer/smartphone/tablet whenever I feel the need to listen to something.

And this is LESS convenient than having to be attached to a stereo/CD player?

Well for one (as I already mentioned) I can put my digital music on an mp3 player if I would like music for when I'm moving around, instead of having to drag a laptop around. And a lot of stereos/cd players happen to be in cars, which is pretty damn convenient.

[ZeppelinDT]

And I for one don't own or wish to own a smartphone, so I wouldn't use that medium anyways.

Fair enough, but I feel like, as time goes by, it'll become more and more difficult to get by without owning a smartphone.

Where the fuck do you live? A super-advanced colony on the moon? Sure, more and more cars have input jacks for iPods and the like, but that's in ADDITION to CD players, not INSTEAD of them.

We may not be there yet, but the reality is that CD players in cars will not be the norm for much longer.

https://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/01/cd-players-make-slow-exit-from-new-cars.html
https://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-20040328-48.html
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/07/27/ford-to-stop-installing-cd-players-in-new-vehicles/
https://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-05-17/news/31753502_1_cds-mp3-ditch

Well for one (as I already mentioned) I can put my digital music on an mp3 player if I would like music for when I'm moving around, instead of having to drag a laptop around.

Ok, but the convenience there comes from having digital music, not physical...





[/quote]

[Aramatheis]

Fair enough, but I feel like, as time goes by, it'll become more and more difficult to get by without owning a smartphone.

I don't see how that makes any sense. A smartphone is basically a phone, with computer capabilities. Its only advantage over a computer is its portability.
I don't see how I won't be able to get by using only a phone and a computer in this "future" of yours. You're making it sound like you think that smartphones will be replacing computers 

We may not be there yet, but the reality is that CD players in cars will not be the norm for much longer.

Well, considering the way that people still drive vehicles with cassette players (and the cassette was not nearly as prevalent as CDs have become) I'm willing to bet people will be driving vehicles/installing Cd players in their vehicles for many years to come.

Ok, but the convenience there comes from having digital music, not physical...

And your point is? I'm not arguing against DIGITAL music,  I'm arguing against STREAMING digital music. They're two completely different entities.

[Phoenix87x]

At this point I just like using the Ipod and Itunes.

I'll probably dabble with the streaming services eventually, but right now I don't really feel the need to.

[Ħ]

I agree with the OP. I don't have a problem with owning just a few physical copies of albums, but only if they're really special, like vinyls, box sets, or special editions. I can't see myself buying a plain old CD ever again - high quality mp3's are good enough for me.

[ZeppelinDT]

II don't see how that makes any sense. A smartphone is basically a phone, with computer capabilities. Its only advantage over a computer is its portability.  I don't see how I won't be able to get by using only a phone and a computer in this "future" of yours. You're making it sound like you think that smartphones will be replacing computers 

I guess I was exaggerating a bit.  I mean, obviously it will be POSSIBLE to get by without a smartphone.  I guess I'm just saying that they will become more and more common, and people who don't have them will be more and more left out.  This is exactly like the people 20 years ago who said "I don't see how I won't be able to get by using only a landline in my house.  I don't need a cell phone.  The only advantage of a cell phone is its portability".  Obviously even today there are people without cell phones, and it's perfectly possible to get by without one.  But you'd definitely be in the minority.

Well, considering the way that people still drive vehicles with cassette players (and the cassette was not nearly as prevalent as CDs have become) I'm willing to bet people will be driving vehicles/installing Cd players in their vehicles for many years to come.

I agree.  You're probably right.  I was only arguing against your statement that all modern vehicles have CD players.  We're very much at the point where NEW cars don't/won't come with CD players, and you'll only get one by either buying a used older car or by installing one yourself.  And, realistically, I'm pretty sure the vast majority will be in the used car category.  I mean, c'mon... sure, some cars still HAVE tape decks, but when was the last time you heard somebody say "Hey, check out this sweet new CASSETTE tape player I just installed in my car!"

And your point is? I'm not arguing against DIGITAL music,  I'm arguing against STREAMING digital music. They're two completely different entities.

Fair enough.  I was just responding to your statement that you were strictly listing the benefits of owning physical music.

[Jaq]

Well it's obviously relative. Compared to streaming, yeah, owning a physical collection of any considerable size is a lot of work.

No wonder people are fat.

Actually, the biggest period of weight gain in my life came during my most active period of buying CDs. Maybe I'm a statistical outlier...

[King Postwhore]

Dr. Phiest of Syrinx.

Telling us were fat and lazy. 

I have over 3000 cd's and I'm fat as all hell so......

[ZeppelinDT]

Over the past year or so I've sold off at least 100 - 200 CDs from my collection, and I've gained like 20 pounds.  Clearly the two occurrences are directly related.