The 2012 NFL Thread

[jingle.boy]

I'm just sayin that Morten Andersen was the best game closer outer everer /thread

Vanderjagt.  And I don't say that cuz I went to public school with the dude (he was a prick by the way... even at 12 years old)

[KevShmev]

As far as the Giants great defense, they were 27th in yards allowed and 25th in points allowed last year, so it's not like Eli won the Super Bowl by being carried by a great defense.

But generally, I agree with kingshmegland in that having a good defense is usually imperative to winning a lot in the NFL.

As for best game winning drive in SB history, I'll take both of Eli's first one against the Patriots in '07.  That one is most impressive cause the Giants were down by 4, so it was score a touchdown or you lose. Eli's last year, Roethlisberger's and Montana's against the Bengals are all great as well, but they only needed a FG to win or tie in all three cases. 

[Rattlehead]

As far as the Giants great defense, they were 27th in yards allowed and 25th in points allowed last year, so it's not like Eli won the Super Bowl by being carried by a great defense.

But generally, I agree with kingshmegland in that having a good defense is usually imperative to winning a lot in the NFL.

As for best game winning drive in SB history, I'll take both of Eli's first one against the Patriots in '07.  That one is most impressive cause the Giants were down by 4, so it was score a touchdown or you lose. Eli's last year, Roethlisberger's and Montana's against the Bengals are all great as well, but they only needed a FG to win or tie in all three cases.

Those drives are definitely up there among the best... I would argue that Roethlisberger's Super Bowl winning drive against the Cardinals deserves an honorable mention too. The throw to Holmes required much more precision than Eli's throw to Burress, not that I'm taking anything away from Eli though because he had to make some really clutch throws on that drive in '07 (the Tyree play, etc).

As for a current top 5 list, I'd have to say...
1. Rodgers
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Eli Manning
5. Peyton Manning

At this point, it's just absurd to not put Eli in the top 5, in my opinion of course. I don't even like the Giants and it's still an easy choice to put him in the top 5 for me.

[theliloutkast]

I will never forget watching the Cardinals/Steelers superbowl. I think it was one of the best to watch in my lifetime. My favorite is still the Rams/Titans superbowl, but that's probably due to my bias as a Rams fan.

[jingle.boy]

For me, Denver's back-to-back wins were awesome - and vindication for Elway (bias for me as well being a huge Elway/Denver fan growing up).  For recent history, the Pats/Panthers in '04 was quite a spectacle.

[PuffyPat]

I will never forget watching the Cardinals/Steelers superbowl.

I was on such an emotional rollercoaster that game. When Warner hit Fitzy for that go ahead TD I was distraught, and didn't know what to do, and then Ben went all "not on my watch" and marched the ball right down the field for the win. And when it ended I felt like I had just caught that TD pass. It was like nothing I had ever seen before, and no other game since then has brought me more joy.

[KevShmev]

Broncos/Packers is still the best Super Bowl, from start to finish, I have seen.  Sure, Steelers/Cardinals, Patriots/Panthers and Rams/Titans all had great finishes, but can you say any of them were great from start to finish?  Not really.  But Broncos/Packers was, and the momentum changes in that game were frequent and unbelievable:

-Packers take a quick 7-0 lead.  Most are thinking, "Here we go again; another NFC butt-kicking."
-Broncos immediately respond with a touchdown of their own.
-Broncos force two turnovers, take a 17-7 lead, and are driving into GB territory to grab a stranglehold on the game mid-way through the 2nd quarter.
-A penalty negates a first down, forcing the Broncos to punt.
-GB ends the half by driving from inside their own 5 all the way down for a touchdown to cut it to 17-14.
HALFTIME
-Denver fumbles the ball on the first play from scrimmage in the second half.  Again, many are thinking, "Here we go again."
-Steve Atwater drops a gimme INT by Favre immediately, but the Broncos still hold and GB settles for a FG.  17-17
-The 3rd quarter is back and forth with neither team able to grab the momentum until a late drive by the Broncos, highlighted by Elway's famous helicopter run, makes it 24-17.
-The Packers fumble the kickoff; Broncos recover.
-The Broncos go for the kill on the first play after the turnover, but an Elway pass is picked off in the end zone.
-The Packers then go right down the field for a TD, tying it at 24-24.
-Both teams have good drives in the 4th quarter, but neither is able to grab the momentum.
-Finally, with three minutes left, the Broncos mount a drive, capped off by Terrell Davis' 3rd touchdown of the game, giving them the 31-24 lead with less than two minutes to go.
-GB's last drive gets to the Broncos 35, but falls short when they fail to covert a 4th and 6.
GAME OVER.  BEST SUPER BOWL EVER.

[jingle.boy]

Actually (and I remember thinking this was either brilliant coaching, or the dumbest thing ever), Holmgren let TD get that third touchdown, just under the two minute warning.  The thought process was Denver would work the clock down to under a minute, and even if they got just the field-goal, there wouldn't be much time on the clock for GB to respond.  Clearly, he had more faith in the offense than the defense.

Still remember wondering why the fuck that defensive line parted like the red sea as TD waltzed right up the middle.

A move repeated by Belichek last year, with the same consequences.

[KevShmev]

It wouldn't have mattered.  The Broncos were already at the GB 1, and they hadn't stopped Terrell Davis all day, so the Broncos were gonna score a touchdown there regardless.

[jingle.boy]

Tru dat.

[black_floyd]

Also, what's the upside to fighting til the bitter end just to hold out for a chipshot field goal that has a much smaller chance of missing than the odds of driving 50 yards in 30 or so seconds and making the tying ~50-yard field goal. You're screwed either way basically but it's safe to say that the average team has a much better chance of scoring a TD in with more than a minute to work with than they do of getting into field goal range and making that long field goal with the 50 yards in ~30 seconds approach.

[black_floyd]

[KevShmev]

Okay now, five best wide receivers in the NFL? 

For me, this is not as simple as looking at the stats and saying who the best are.  So much depends on what system you play in, who your QB is, if you are on a bad team where you can rack up garbage yards, etc.  But for my money, the top 5 right now are:

1. Calvin Johnson (still by far the best WR in the game, despite his lack of scores so far this year)
2. Larry Fitzgerald (the eyeball test is all you need with this guy; he is still the 2nd best. How he put up 1,400+ yards last year with those scrubs throwing to him, I'll never know)
3. Victor Cruz (not only is he now the most feared deep threat in the game, but he has become a great red zone threat at as well; he can do it all)
4. A.J. Green (this guy is nearly unstoppable already, and this is only his 2nd year in the league)
5. Andre Johnson (seems to have lost half a step, and doesn't put up the outrageous numbers he used to, but is still a dominant WR when thrown to)

Honorable mentions to Brandon Marshall and Roddy White.

[snapple]

I think GB has the best system.

[bosk1]

  But the 49ers don't have five receivers.

[wkiml]

Kev ...I agree on the top 4....Andre Johnson has slipped in my opinion

5 on my list would be White or Welker

[bosk1]

In all seriousness, I can't really pick a top 5 right now.  I like a lot of Kev's choices.  But I think Julio Jones should be up for consideration as well.

[KevShmev]

Julio needs to get over his case of the drops, but he definitely has the talent and the skills to get there.  He just needs to put it all together.  He appears on the verge.

[theliloutkast]

Julio Jones is amazing every other week, seriously, look at his numbers.

@wkiml

I think Amendola is better than Welker. Neither are top five receivers though.


My top five based on this season:

1. A.J. Green (His numbers are about on par with the numbers that launched Megatron center stage last season.)
2. Brandon Marshall (This guy is going to break records, his form reminds me of Isaac Bruce.)
3. Victor Cruz (I thought last season he was just a one hit wonder, and I was dead wrong. This guy is a monster.)
4. Roddy White/Julio Jones (Why are they in the same spot? Look at their stats. They never have a good week the same week, and they trade back and forth. They're about even.)
5. Percy Harvin (This is his breakout year, and he's going to keep it going.)

Like I said, this is based on this season so far and my expectations of them going on this season. I don't care about next season, we'll worry about it then.

[PuffyPat]

I completely agree with you.

[DebraKadabra]

5. Andre Johnson (seems to have lost half a step, and doesn't put up the outrageous numbers he used to, but is still a dominant WR when thrown to)

You do realize that Andre's been playing for 10 seasons, right?

[black_floyd]

[DebraKadabra]

^ 

[yorost]

That's what you get for being one of those dumbass defenders that likes to jump over tackled players.

[black_floyd]

It's hilarious too and I feel kinda bad for the dude from the Buccaneers who gets upended because it seems apparent that he avoided tackling Joe Morgan because he thought his teammate had made the tackle so by that logic he's avoiding risking a half-the-distance-to-the-goal penalty for a late hit or at least not trying to take advantage of lighting up a downed opponent using the grey area as an excuse.

That's what you get for being one of those dumbass defenders that likes to jump over tackled players.

Not the case right here. He was too close to comfortably stop. He was in full pursuit until he assumed his teammate had gotten Morgan down and then appeared to have ambivalence at the point of impact.

[DebraKadabra]

That's what you get for being one of those dumbass defenders that likes to jump over tackled players.

It was the creamsicle uni?

[yorost]

Yeah, you gotta love those.

Where does our Pick 'em game get its spreads?  They have Packers/Jaguars at 0.

[DebraKadabra]

Yeah, you gotta love those.

Totally.

[pogoowner]

Okay now, five best wide receivers in the NFL? 

For me, this is not as simple as looking at the stats and saying who the best are.  So much depends on what system you play in, who your QB is, if you are on a bad team where you can rack up garbage yards, etc.  But for my money, the top 5 right now are:

1. Calvin Johnson (still by far the best WR in the game, despite his lack of scores so far this year)
2. Larry Fitzgerald (the eyeball test is all you need with this guy; he is still the 2nd best. How he put up 1,400+ yards last year with those scrubs throwing to him, I'll never know)
3. Victor Cruz (not only is he now the most feared deep threat in the game, but he has become a great red zone threat at as well; he can do it all)
4. A.J. Green (this guy is nearly unstoppable already, and this is only his 2nd year in the league)
5. Andre Johnson (seems to have lost half a step, and doesn't put up the outrageous numbers he used to, but is still a dominant WR when thrown to)

Honorable mentions to Brandon Marshall and Roddy White.

I'd drop Andre Johnson and add Percy Harvin to that list.

[cramx3]

Okay now, five best wide receivers in the NFL? 

For me, this is not as simple as looking at the stats and saying who the best are.  So much depends on what system you play in, who your QB is, if you are on a bad team where you can rack up garbage yards, etc.  But for my money, the top 5 right now are:

1. Calvin Johnson (still by far the best WR in the game, despite his lack of scores so far this year)
2. Larry Fitzgerald (the eyeball test is all you need with this guy; he is still the 2nd best. How he put up 1,400+ yards last year with those scrubs throwing to him, I'll never know)
3. Victor Cruz (not only is he now the most feared deep threat in the game, but he has become a great red zone threat at as well; he can do it all)
4. A.J. Green (this guy is nearly unstoppable already, and this is only his 2nd year in the league)
5. Andre Johnson (seems to have lost half a step, and doesn't put up the outrageous numbers he used to, but is still a dominant WR when thrown to)

Honorable mentions to Brandon Marshall and Roddy White.

I'd drop Andre Johnson and add Percy Harvin to that list.

I may be a die hard Gmen fan, but I got to think Cruz may be the best in the league now

[PuffyPat]

Cruz is definitely a top tier receiver, but I don't think I would call him the best. He does have that deep threat speed, but he doesn't have the play making ability of an A.J. Green or a Calvin Johnson who just seem to catch footballs that shouldn't be caught.

1. A.J. Green
2. Calvin Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Percy Harvin
5. Julio Jones

[KevShmev]

I think Amendola is better than Welker. 

No chance in hell.  Amendola is like a junior Welker, but the key to being that kind of a WR is the ability to get hit a lot, and considering he's gotten hurt the last two years, it's obvious that Amendola cannot take the pounding; Welker can.  Plus, Welker is just better even when you take that out of the equation.

5. Andre Johnson (seems to have lost half a step, and doesn't put up the outrageous numbers he used to, but is still a dominant WR when thrown to)

You do realize that Andre's been playing for 10 seasons, right?

Of course, why?

I'd drop Andre Johnson and add Percy Harvin to that list.

Harvin is really good, but he is another guy I'd like to see play a full 16-game season once.  And then we'll talk.

Edit: Okay, looks like he did play 16 games last year, but was limited in several of them.  I still can't call him a top 5 WR; maybe top 10.

[theliloutkast]

Consider the difference of teams. Amendola was targeted an insane amount compared to all the other receivers, and was pretty much the Rams entire offense. Of course he's going to take more hits. Also, any human on earth would have been hurt if they landed like Amendola did against the Cardinals. I would rather have Amendola than Welker any day.

[KevShmev]

Amendola had 49+ targets in the four plus games he played; Welker has 48 in his last four games. 

And the key to being that kind of a receiver is the ability to stay healthy and not fall like that when you sense contact is coming.  Like I said, Amendola has not proven he can take the pounding and stay healthy; Welker has. 

[theliloutkast]

The difference is the NFC West knows how to play defence in the secondary