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So, do you?

yes
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I thought they were the same
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Author Topic: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)  (Read 6163 times)

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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2012, 01:36:47 PM »
Quote from: theseoafs on March 23, 2012, 10:40:12 PM
Quote from: antigoon on March 23, 2012, 10:30:54 PM
the singular their is NOT good.
Nah, singular their is fine. It's been used by plenty of legitimate authors ( https://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html ), and English's lack of a generic "he or she" or "his or her" is really annoying.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2012, 05:59:16 PM »
suppose to
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2012, 07:06:11 PM »
Supposably

Also, over the years I've seen many people say/write that the President is "Commander and Chief" of the armed forces.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2012, 08:04:46 PM »
Ooh. I thought of another one that I see all the time. Conditional clause. Use "were" instead of was whenever it's in a clause starting with "if". Like:

If I was -> If I were
If it was -> If it were
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2012, 09:57:52 PM »
We don't use the subjunctive whenever the clause starts with an if -- only if the sentence's other clause is in the conditional. E.g., "If I was wrong, I apologize", but "If I were wrong, I would apologize".
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Offline Implode

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2012, 10:23:03 PM »
As usual, you're better at explaining the rule. You're right.
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2012, 11:35:42 PM »
Quote from: Implode on April 06, 2012, 08:04:46 PM
Ooh. I thought of another one that I see all the time. Conditional clause. Use "were" instead of was whenever it's in a clause starting with "if". Like:

If I was -> If I were
If it was -> If it were
Wrong.

Use "were" when stating things that are contrary to actual fact and "was" when stating things that aren't.

Examples:
Correct: If I were a smart man, I'd have not broken up with that girl.
Incorrect: If I was a smart man...

Correct: Was I rude? If I was, tell me.
Incorrect: Was I rude? If I were, tell me.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2012, 11:36:41 PM »
I was already corrected once. I get it.  :|
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2012, 09:45:59 AM »
But slycordinator and theseoafs aren't saying the same thing.  It's more clarification than piling on.  theseoafs says that you use "were" when it's conditional, slycordinator says to use "were" when it's contrary to actual fact.

Quote
Correct: If I were a smart man, I'd have not broken up with that girl.
Incorrect: If I was a smart man...

Correct: Was I rude? If I was, tell me.
Incorrect: Was I rude? If I were, tell me.

In the first example, "were" is correct because the speaker is indirectly saying that he is not smart, so it's a contrary position.

In the second example, the speaker does not know, so it's conditional.  Since he does not know whether or not he was actually rude,"were" is incorrect.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2012, 11:45:55 AM »
Ah. Okay.
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2012, 01:37:52 PM »
Nah, we basically said the same thing. Use the subjunctive -- the mood to express things contrary actual fact -- in clauses that start with "if" whose corresponding independent clause are in the conditional.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2012, 03:43:32 PM »
batteries sold seperately
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2012, 07:47:18 PM »
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #83 on: April 09, 2012, 01:05:24 PM »
Quote from: antigoon on March 23, 2012, 10:30:54 PM
the singular their is NOT good.
You're right. The singular their is bloody brilliant.

Gender-neutral, accepted by the OED, way less confusing than the hypothetical "your" -- what's not to love?!
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2012, 04:28:20 PM »
One thing that has been bugging me: quoting colloquialisms.  As Elements of Style says, using quotations like that to show that you are above the use of the word is a major put-off. It's like you're inviting the reader to be a part of a secret society that knows better than to use that word.

It's all over the internet and I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.
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Online Adami

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2012, 04:30:06 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on May 18, 2012, 04:28:20 PM
One thing that has been bugging me: quoting colloquialisms.  As Elements of Style says, using quotations like that to show that you are above the use of the word is a major put-off. It's like you're inviting the reader to be a part of a secret society that knows better than to use that word.

It's all over the internet and I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.

I agree "my brotha".
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2012, 06:03:49 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on May 18, 2012, 04:28:20 PM
One thing that has been bugging me: quoting colloquialisms.  As Elements of Style says, using quotations like that to show that you are above the use of the word is a major put-off. It's like you're inviting the reader to be a part of a secret society that knows better than to use that word.

It's all over the internet and I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.
I think that's the point, surely? Says "these are this person's words, not my own, don't shoot the messenger."

It's not that I'm part of a "secret society." (And you can have that as a bit of usage!) I suppose it is a form of snobbery, but it puts - often much-needed - distance between the writer and the quote. All words aren't born equal, and they often carry connotations that you don't at all feel comfortable endorsing. I think it's sometimes only right to hold a word at arm's length and pinch your nose with the other hand as you speak it. Important for clarity's sake, as much as anything else, in a medium where misinterpretation and ambiguity is so common. It's very easy to get inflection wrong on the internet, when we're typing quickly, in a stream of consciousness kind of way. Profoundly silly not to take advantage of whatever signifiers you can. Silly or confident, I guess.

And that applies double to words like butthurt and mansplaining, to name a couple of particularly offensive examples, which are claimed by subcultures I don't particularly approve of, so I would sincerely be a little embarrassed if people thought they were part of my lexicon.
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #87 on: May 18, 2012, 06:05:22 PM »
Then why not use a different word that you're more comfortable with? Is snobbery the only option?
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"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline robwebster

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #88 on: May 18, 2012, 06:11:19 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on May 18, 2012, 06:05:22 PM
Then why not use a different word that you're more comfortable with? Is snobbery the only option?
Pretty often, yeah. Particularly in discussions. Or with reported speech.

There's a massive difference between "He accused me of being butthurt," and "He accused me of being "butthurt."" First option, it's your word. Second option, it's the smug little internet fellow.

I agree, I like to eradicate the words entirely if possible, but I'd rather slap words in quote marks than parrot guff slang.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #89 on: May 18, 2012, 06:23:09 PM »
I like that, Rob.  I like that immensely.  I'm going to try having a bit of fun.  When I want to troll people in P/R, I'm going to respond by just quoting their posts, and then repeating one sentence as a question, with some random word in quotes.

EDIT:  This is fun.  I think I'm about to push Eric off the deep end.   :lol
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 06:30:08 PM by bosk1 »
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Online Adami

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #90 on: May 18, 2012, 06:31:25 PM »
Quote from: bosk1 on May 18, 2012, 06:23:09 PM
I like that, Rob.  I like that immensely.  I'm going to try having a bit of fun.  When I want to troll people in P/R, I'm going to respond by just quoting their posts, and then repeating one sentence as a question, with some random word in quotes.

EDIT:  This is fun.  I think I'm about to push Eric off the deep end.   :lol

"deep end"?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #91 on: May 18, 2012, 06:32:23 PM »
Well, shoot.  Busted.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2012, 06:39:04 PM »
Hahaa! I'm sure you'll be very popular.

I know what the quotes are like, they're like a shield! No matter what you write, someone, somewhere, will think you're a prick for it. I'd generally rather they judge me for my own words than for someone else's, so if I find a word distasteful, if not downright offensive, I'm not going to use it myself without making it crystal clear that I disapprove. I'm not saying quotes are to be flapped around lightly, but if the alternative's using an iffy word with no hint of irony I am 100% in favour of putting as much distance as possible between it and myself. Semantics can be a very precise science, and words drop like grenades. If I think someone's used the wrong word or a distasteful word or a word that's just plain ugly, I'll be very careful not to repeat it, and if I have to, I am definitely shielding myself from the explosion. As I said, I'd rather be judged for my own foibles than someone else's. If that foible's "using words precisely," I'm completely okay with that.

Also, while I'm here...

Quote from: rumborak on March 23, 2012, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: lonestar on March 23, 2012, 07:11:14 PM
Well they say I learn something new everyday, I was kinda hoping for something a bit more meaningful today, but I'll live with this.  Thanks. :tup

Well, here's another thing most people don't know: Frankenstein isn't the name of the monster, it's the name of the doctor who created him. The monster actually never has a name.

rumborak
Isn't the monster called Adam?

Could be wrong! Been wrong before.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2012, 06:43:58 PM »
That's one of those things that is wrong, but it's become so widespread that there's no point in even correcting it.  Even most of the people who refer to the monster as "Frankenstein" know it's wrong, but simply go with convention.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Do you know the difference between i.e. and e.g.? (don't look it up!)
« Reply #94 on: May 19, 2012, 03:57:55 AM »
Quote from: robwebster on May 18, 2012, 06:39:04 PM
Isn't the monster called Adam?

Could be wrong! Been wrong before.
Sort of, but not really.

From wikipedia:
Quote
the creature is often referred to as "Frankenstein", but in the novel the creature has no name. He does call himself, when speaking to his creator, Victor Frankenstein, the "Adam of your labours".
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