Sonata Arctica thread

[adace]

Overall the new album's good, but not as good I expected based on the two singles.

[Dittomist]

I agree. Unlike on Stones Grow Her Name, where the first two singles released were the two worst songs on the album, they were very wise in choosing Cloud Factory and The Wolves Die Young.

[ErHaO]

I also agree. But I do think I will keep coming back to the good/great songs for a long time. Overall I am pretty happy with the album after my initial dissapointment. But I still feel it could have been better (especially Love, as SA has some really great ballads).

[wolfking]

Jesus, this album is terrible.

[Evermind]

Jesus, this album is terrible.

Just listened for the first time and I strongly disagree with this statement. The only thing is terrible in this album is the mix, in my opinion. The mix is really bland and uninspiring and dull and downright awful. If only this album had SGHN mix, it would've been much more amazing.

The songwriting, on the other hand, became much better in comparison with their previous effort. My favourite songs now are Cloud Factory, Blood and Half a Marathon Man; WHDDHYDHTDH is good but the lack of proper ending doesn't help at all. The best song I think is Blood, I'm really glad they're playing it live, can't wait to hear it.

Larger than Life ended up pretty underwhelming, hope it's a grower, because from the first listen I found it dragging and unmemorable for an epic. Some people said it's trying to be the second WPBO, well, I don't have this impression, and this song is nowhere near the perfection WPBO has.

The worst song is probably Running Lights, followed close by Love. Other songs are quite good, despite X Marks the Spot being a big WTF with all that preacher stuff. Also, the booklet in digibook has a few jarring typos, the one that stood out for me was "There will blood!". They really should've checked that stuff, I think.

Overall, the album lands somewhere in the middle of SA discography. It's certainly better than SGHN, I like it more than Unia (yeah, I'm not a fan of Unia, I'm sorry), WHG and Silence, but it doesn't have enough balls and epicness and atmosphere to beat Ecliptica, RN and TDOG for me. Still, an admirable effort and I'm sure I'll keep returning back to it in the next days/months.

We shall see what you guys think about all this songs in upcoming Sonata Arctica survivor, starting out right after the Avantasia one will end. We will need 5 people or more, so I urge everyone who's reading/writing in this thread to take part in it. I would appreciate help in the "bonus songs/demo tracks" department, if anyone have a list (?, looking at you there) I would gladly see it.

[?]

I would appreciate help in the "bonus songs/demo tracks" department, if anyone have a list (?, looking at you there) I would gladly see it.

As you wish

Mary-Lou
Shy
PeaceMaker
Respect the Wilderness
The Gun
Dream Thieves
The Rest of the Sun Belongs to Me
Wrecking the Sphere
To Create a Warlike Feel
They Follow
In the Dark
Nothing More
In My Eyes You're a Giant
Tonight I Dance Alone
One-Two-Free-Fall
No Pain

That's all, I guess - I didn't count cover songs, alternate versions (acoustic/orchestral/instrumental) or the Tricky Beans stuff.

[Evermind]

Thank you, much appreciated.

[ErHaO]

So, as I happen to like PC more after each listening and their setlist of 11th of April seemed pretty good to me, I decided to attend the concert in Amsterdam this evening (I live like 15 min. away from the venue).

There were not a lot of people (sunday evening and a performance just 2 days ago at Eindhoven, so I already expected that) and it took the band some time to get the audience loose, but they succeeded! They played one of my favourite power metal songs of all time (White Pearl, Black Oceans) and mixed up some other killer tracks from their early years with more recent songs. As for the new material: they played The Wolves Die Young, Blood and The Cloud Factory and they all sounded very good in a live setting. Especially Blood was a nice surprise and makes me like the studio version more. Kind of surprised (but not dissapointed!) they did not play Love. Maybe they realise it totally sucks and that they are better off playing the classic Tallulah (which they did, offcourse).

Tony sounded great but had some vocal problems in his speaking range (you could hear he had a soar throat when he was talking). But he nailed most of the songs regardless of that. He totally nailed White Pearl, Black Oceans and was jumping around while making weird gestures as usual.   

Overall I liked their show in 013 during the SHN tour better (in large part due to the audience of the south of the Netherlands almost always being more involved and enthousiastic), but it was a nice concert. This show was a bit more power metal oriented. I had the feeling the show was a tad too short though. But yeah, I am probably still a bit spoiled by DT's awesome 3 hour show in Amsterdam two months ago    

[?]

Poor Tony, he always seems to get a cold on Euro tours Hopefully they won't have to shorten or cancel shows.

Nice to hear you had fun I checked setlist.fm and apparently they replaced In the Dark and Victoria's Secret with Sing in Silence and Paid in Full, so my prediction about rotating setlists was right. The lack of Love is surprising indeed, but they may premiere it soon.

[?]

We shall see what you guys think about all this songs in upcoming Sonata Arctica survivor, starting out right after the Avantasia one will end.

I just noticed that the Transatlantic survivor is about to end, so maybe the SA survivor could start after that already?

[Evermind]

I'm fine with that. I think they are going to do an album survivor too, but as TA doesn't have a lot of albums, I don't think it's a big deal.

We can start right after the winner in TA survivor will be determined. I'll write about it in ongoing survivors thread then.

[wolfking]

We shall see what you guys think about all this songs in upcoming Sonata Arctica survivor, starting out right after the Avantasia one will end.

I just noticed that the Transatlantic survivor is about to end, so maybe the SA survivor could start after that already?

Do it!

[?]

Looks like Half a Marathon Man got ditched from the setlist (thank god!) and they're only playing 3 songs from the new album now:

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/sonata-arctica/2014/markthalle-hamburg-germany-1bc385f4.html
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/sonata-arctica/2014/meier-music-hall-braunschweig-germany-53c3ff2d.html

Kind of weird after the overdose of SGHN songs on the last tour Henkka said they'll premiere WDYDITWD? soon, though.

I'm fine with that. I think they are going to do an album survivor too, but as TA doesn't have a lot of albums, I don't think it's a big deal.

We can start right after the winner in TA survivor will be determined. I'll write about it in ongoing survivors thread then.

Great!

[Evermind]

Well, I hope they'll get HAMM back at the setlist, and I hope they'll have War-Dad in Moscow too. Both songs are amazing.

We're off with the main topic for the survivor. I'll start Ecliptica right after TA survivor will end, let me know it you want to do it with two albums at once, like Chad did with Avantasia. I'm down for both options.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=41328.0

Oh, and of course I urge everyone who listens to this band to take part in the survivor! Don't ignore it only because it's in "Polls/Survivors" thread, pay attention and it may very well be a lot of fun.

[Dr. DTVT]

So, the new album is slightly better than SGHN, but that isn't saying much.  It's a shame, I liked their first four albums a lot, Unia and Greys somewhat, but I'm not sure I like what this band has become.

[Evermind]

Slightly?

Well, in my opinion SGHN was a wreck and total failure. The new album is much better, like a lot much.

[ErHaO]

I think SA got better over the years. From the older albums I like most songs, but I also grow tired of them pretty quickly (and will not listen to them for several years). This is in contrast to their newer albums, were there are always some pretty shitty songs but I cannot get enough of the good/excellent songs, which will be frequently played on my audioplayers for many years to come. There are enough powermetal bands to make up for the loss of the old SA. The exeption is Reckoning Night, which is the ultimate SA album and one of the best power metal albums ever for me.

Funny thing I realised when seeing them live last week is that some of the songs I hate, like I Have a Right, work pretty good live. I absolutely loathe the studio version of that song but liked it in a live setting.

[?]

I came aboard in the Unia era and that album is still my favorite. I'm not a power metal fan anymore, but I still like the first four albums because Tony had a fantastic sense of melody and the lyrics were good. For a long time RN was my least favorite, but it has grown on me in the past couple of years. TDOG is not as good as Unia, but it has a special place in my heart because I bought the album on its release date and saw them twice on the tour. I liked Stones initially, but the excitement wore off and now it's my least favorite album. PC is an improvement, but unfortunately there are some weak songs. My ranking:

1. Unia
2. Silence
3. Days of Grays
4. Reckoning Night
5. Ecliptica/WHG
7. Pariah's Child
8. Stones Grow Her Name

Funny thing I realised when seeing them live last week is that some of the songs I hate, like I Have a Right, work pretty good live. I absolutely loathe the studio version of that song but liked it in a live setting.

I hate to admit this, but it was during that song that I finally stood up at the concert hall gig However, it had more to do with the fact that it was at the end of the main set and not because I like the song

[gazinwales]

For me they have got worse over the years, specially after Jani left.
The first 4 albums I can listen to again and again.
The following 3 (Unia, TDoG, SGHN) I can't even get half way through.
The most recent, PC I am not even buying or listening, SA are done for me.

[wolfking]

New album is still terrible IMO.

[Evermind]

New album is still terrible IMO.

Can I ask what exactly you don't like? Don't answer "everything" please, I'm seriously interested because I find this record quite decent.

[wolfking]

Since Days of Grays the band has simply lost it's way, and PC shows Tony has just lost something that made his songwriting special.  I find the songs just lack melody or structure and they simply go nowhere.  Unia is their best album IMO, and from there Tony seems to be flogging a dead horse.  He made something unique and special and I feel has tried staying in the same vein when they should have moved on.  Unia was something magical and the band will never create what they did on that.  The certain atmosphere and presence that made Sonata Arctica special is simply gone.  They sound tired, and lost. 

I think the natural progression of what the band was doing has gone backwards.  I know Jani had nothing to do with the songwriting (minus My Selene), but a lot of the band's magic left with him.  Also, they don't sound like a band anymore, just Tony's musicians for what sounds like a side project.

[Evermind]

Well, out of that I can only agree that Tony writes all the stuff, I would've loved to hear the other guys' ideas on the albums. Feels kind of underwhelming that one guy writes all the songs and other four guys are just playing it.

[ErHaO]

If I look at albums as a whole it would be something like this for me:

1: Reckoning Night
2: Days of Grays
3: Unia
4: Winterhearts Guild
5: Pariah's Child
6: Stones Grow Her Name (yes, I like quite some songs on it and the bonus songs and acoustic versions were good)
7: Silence
8: Ecliptica (I do like live renditions but I hate the way this album sounds and I find it to be pretty repetive. And some of the vocal parts are very annoying and sound quite unnatural for Tony. This is why I am looking forward to the rerecording)

I do agree the band could benefit of some more influence of the instrumentalists. But that part of the band has never been a highlight for me (unlike a lot of other power metal bands, actually).

[Evermind]

So, the guys apparently premiered War-Dad on their last show.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/sonata-arctica/2014/c-club-berlin-germany-73c3f63d.html

And they moved Cloud Factory to the main set, with Blood being an encore. Not sure about that, CF works better as an encore in my opinion. I'm still kinda sad about the absence of HAMM, but as they're playing my two most favourite songs from PC, I'm fine. Though if they ditched I Have a Right and played anything instead of it (except Cinderblox and Shitload of Money) I would be glad.

[gazinwales]

If I look at albums as a whole it would be something like this for me:

1: Reckoning Night
2: Days of Grays
3: Unia
4: Winterhearts Guild
5: Pariah's Child
6: Stones Grow Her Name (yes, I like quite some songs on it and the bonus songs and acoustic versions were good)
7: Silence
8: Ecliptica (I do like live renditions but I hate the way this album sounds and I find it to be pretty repetive. And some of the vocal parts are very annoying and sound quite unnatural for Tony. This is why I am looking forward to the rerecording)

I do agree the band could benefit of some more influence of the instrumentalists. But that part of the band has never been a highlight for me (unlike a lot of other power metal bands, actually).

Ecliptica, of course Tony's voice sounds different, he was still learning to sing and get around the accent.
How can it sound unnatural for a first album???
On later albums his singing would develop and he would have a vocal coach to help him with his pronunciations and phrasings.
I love Eclipitca and they are re-recording it? Well they shouldn't be messing with history.
It's the prefect snap shot of a young band, learning their craft and developing there sound.
That said I do prefer the demo versions found on the Fullmoon demo (Unopened, Full Moon, Mary Lou and 8th Commandment).

[wolfking]

I agree, the Ecliptica re-recording is uneccesary, especially with this lineup.

[ErHaO]

If I look at albums as a whole it would be something like this for me:

1: Reckoning Night
2: Days of Grays
3: Unia
4: Winterhearts Guild
5: Pariah's Child
6: Stones Grow Her Name (yes, I like quite some songs on it and the bonus songs and acoustic versions were good)
7: Silence
8: Ecliptica (I do like live renditions but I hate the way this album sounds and I find it to be pretty repetive. And some of the vocal parts are very annoying and sound quite unnatural for Tony. This is why I am looking forward to the rerecording)

I do agree the band could benefit of some more influence of the instrumentalists. But that part of the band has never been a highlight for me (unlike a lot of other power metal bands, actually).

Ecliptica, of course Tony's voice sounds different, he was still learning to sing and get around the accent.
How can it sound unnatural for a first album???
On later albums his singing would develop and he would have a vocal coach to help him with his pronunciations and phrasings.
I love Eclipitca and they are re-recording it? Well they shouldn't be messing with history.
It's the prefect snap shot of a young band, learning their craft and developing there sound.
That said I do prefer the demo versions found on the Fullmoon demo (Unopened, Full Moon, Mary Lou and 8th Commandment).

We probably have different definitions of "natural" but I'll try to make myself clear. Tony uses his voice in ways that, to my hearing, do not fit his natural reach. He forces high notes that do not sound good to my ears. He has stated many times that during the early days of SA, he kind of tried replicating the vocals of Timo Kotipelto. In fact, this is a quote from an interview with Tony:

" I’ve been pushing my voice way too much. I was trying to be something I’m not. Especially on Ecliptica, I was trying to mimic Timo Kotipelto from Stratovarius. It was what I wanted to do and tried to do, but it was not natural."

And this is also what I hear, especially on Ecpliptica. I think the vocals often sound forced and unnatural. A lot of (power) metal vocalists tend to do this though.

Furthermore, I am not very fond of accents and bad articulation in music so that also contributes to the album being my least favourite. And the overall mix sounds pretty sloppy as well. I understand that it is their first effort and that artists need time to develop. Therefore, I will not say it was a bad debut album. In fact, It's actually a good debut. But that should never be an argument for the sound of an album, as something sounds as is. It is a fact that he had a accent and it is my opinion that the vocals and the mix/mastering do not sound good. I get why this is the case, but that doesn't change the sound of the album whatsoever and thus not my opinion upon hearing it.

If they can make it sound better, I am all in for the re recording. For the people that do not mind it sounding like this there is always the original version.

[gazinwales]

Kotipelto himself was forced in many Stratovarius songs to sing in a key a lot higher than his natural range and Kakko copied this?
Ah well, what's done is done and I'll reiterate, Ecliptica is a representation of a young band and that line up at that time.
If it needs a fresh up, then a remix/master would suffice.
A full re-record with the current line up it total unnecessary and IMO a bit an insult to the departed members who played on that album.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I like everything about Ecliptica, and see no need for a rerecording. But I guess it's cool for the people who don't care for the original.

[wolfking]

Kotipelto himself was forced in many Stratovarius songs to sing in a key a lot higher than his natural range and Kakko copied this?
Ah well, what's done is done and I'll reiterate, Ecliptica is a representation of a young band and that line up at that time.
If it needs a fresh up, then a remix/master would suffice.
A full re-record with the current line up it total unnecessary and IMO a bit an insult to the departed members who played on that album.

I agree with everything here.

[?]

Though if they ditched I Have a Right and played anything instead of it (except Cinderblox and Shitload of Money) I would be glad.

Unfortunately I read a recent interview where Tony said I Have a Right will stay in the setlist forever If it was up to me, the only SGHN song that should be played at every show would be Cinderblox.

I agree with erHaO regarding Tony's vocals on Ecliptica; the studio version of Blank File suffers because of the ridiculously high vocals and they sound really unnatural for his voice. I don't see any problem with the re-recording - you don't have to buy it if you're happy with the original album, but those who think it could've been better can get this updated version.

[Evermind]

I'm fine with the rerecording. I mean, my old disc isn't going anywhere, and I'm curious how the new version will turn out.

Meanwhile, the survivor is up and running. Check my signature and vote.

Unfortunately I read a recent interview where Tony said I Have a Right will stay in the setlist forever

That's a shame.

[?]

Oh Tony... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAwU1LcSSUs

[MetalMike06]

I like everything about Ecliptica, and see no need for a rerecording. But I guess it's cool for the people who don't care for the original.

I agree. My favorite SA album.

I just scoured the net a bit and apparently they really are rerecording it! While I love the original I still wouldn't mind hearing a more "modern" version out of curiosity.