Full U.S. Iraq withdrawal by start of 2012

[Chino]

Im really happy that by 2013 we will only be spending around $5billion per year over there (at least thats the plan).

[Super Dude]

Yep, we'll finally be cutting spending in the places we actually need to.

[AndyDT]

In Robert Cooper's The Breaking of Nations, I read that that military deployment helped to sorta keep Europe chill during the Cold War, and that it facilitated the development of the EU? I'm not saying like others that we were defending Europe, but he seems to suggest the presence itself facilitated the formation of a national security system based on post-modern notions such as knowing exactly how many nuclear weapons your neighbor has and exactly how many troops his ally has.

Well, of course Europe (and Germany) in particular was one of the many theaters in which to wage the Cold War with the USSR, and thus deployments were of strategic value fo the US in Europe. But, nobody in Germany wanted that, and there were massive protests for example against stationint the Pershing missiles in Germany. One can twist that notion into "defending" Europe against the USSR, but even that only held up until the Cold War was over. Since then, the sole reason why the US is in Europe is so it can wage wars overseas more efficiently.

rumborak

I think even Germans were grateful for the Berlin airlift.

[Liberation]

Does anyone have an answer to my question?... I'm really uncertain about this and I'm not quite sure where to look for information on the matter either.

[rumborak]

In Robert Cooper's The Breaking of Nations, I read that that military deployment helped to sorta keep Europe chill during the Cold War, and that it facilitated the development of the EU? I'm not saying like others that we were defending Europe, but he seems to suggest the presence itself facilitated the formation of a national security system based on post-modern notions such as knowing exactly how many nuclear weapons your neighbor has and exactly how many troops his ally has.

Well, of course Europe (and Germany) in particular was one of the many theaters in which to wage the Cold War with the USSR, and thus deployments were of strategic value fo the US in Europe. But, nobody in Germany wanted that, and there were massive protests for example against stationint the Pershing missiles in Germany. One can twist that notion into "defending" Europe against the USSR, but even that only held up until the Cold War was over. Since then, the sole reason why the US is in Europe is so it can wage wars overseas more efficiently.

rumborak

I think even Germans were grateful for the Berlin airlift.

The Berlin blockade was right after the war, and it wasn't defense. We are of course eternally grateful for the US in that time of trial, but you can't use it to say the US is stationed for defending Europe.

rumborak

[AndyDT]

What was it if not defending against Soviet expansion?

[rumborak]

I think there's several types of defense we're talking about here. Praxis clearly meant defense in the sense of a standing army that protects a certain patch of land. What the US did during a Cold War was an arms race, and while one *can* use the term defense for that, it's not the use of "defense" I'm talking about.
Also, again, the Cold War is long over, 3 decades at this point. US troops in Europe aren't there to protect Europe against Russia. They are there to facilitate remote operations in the ME.

rumborak

[AndyDT]

Do you think russia would have invaded Georgia had they been in NATO?

[kirksnosehair]

Now more seriously... One thing that I'm wondering about:
Yes I know it definitely is time to withdraw, and I know the actions of US Army there were far from perfect, but I just wonder... If the fundamentalists managed to be such a threat for several organised, highly modern armies, and after staying there for eight years the western armies still haven't even come close to dealing with the problem, will the Iraqi government hold on its own? Especially that, with the whole world knowing now when the US will be withdrawing, they'll have more than enough time to prepare an attack to take over the government... And I think nobody wants any country to be ruled by fundamentalists.

A bit of a conspiracy theory maybe, but I'm just unsure about this... I don't have any information to find out if this is possible.

We have propped up a very weak western-style "democracy" in Iraq at tremendous expense in both raw dollars [borrowed from China] spent [/borrowed from China] and lives of soldiers, literally, in my view, wasted. 

Will this "democracy" last?  Well, no one can predict the future, but my guess is that within 5 years Iraq will, most likely, have a similar government to that of Iran.  Once the US has withdrawn, there will be very little stopping Iran from strengthening its position in the region and Iran has made no secret of their desire to spread the "Islamic Revolution" far and wide.  They, and many of the Muslims in Iraq see western democracy as a poisonous, immoral plague on society.  And they surely have plenty of agreement from many people who are highly placed within the current Iraqi regime. 

Time will tell, but I believe history will cast the George W. Bush's invasion, occupation, and attempt at nation building in Iraq as a monumentally stupid decision.

[El Barto]

Vets ask: Time for an Iraq war parade?

(CNN) -- On a day when New York City threw a parade to celebrate the New York Giants for their Super Bowl victory, at least one veterans' group is using the occasion to ask: What about a parade to honor the soldiers who fought in Iraq?

"If the Giants deserve a Super Bowl [parade], so do the 1 million Iraq veterans who have served," says Paul Reickhoff, an Iraq war veteran who now heads Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. "The American people want a chance to say thank you, and want a chance to respect and remember those who served."

Say hello to America's next political football.  Since this is actually kind of a delicate issue,  I can see it fostering a great deal of partisan bullshit and ill conceived rhetoric. 

Personally,  I vote hell no.  The one person who's most deserving,  being the one most responsible for the war's end,  is Bradly Manning,  and I doubt they'll put his court martial on hold long enough to lob tickertape at him. 

[antigoon]

He was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe if he wins they'll let his fellow Nobel Laureate Barack present his award

[jsem]

Still those 17K contractors.