Marco Minnemann on DT

[BlobVanDam]

It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.

Not really surprising at all since Marco is the most in the wrong here.
He either wanted the DT gig, in which case he comes across as bitter, or he never wanted the gig to begin with, in which case he's being a spoiled brat for whining about things he didn't care about to begin with.
He should just stick to drumming and stay off the intertubes.

[lithium112]

It's funny how everyone is taking DT's side, calling Marco a whiner and whatnot. Not really surprising though.

Not really surprising at all since Marco is the most in the wrong here.
He either wanted the DT gig, in which case he comes across as bitter, or he never wanted the gig to begin with, in which case he's being a spoiled brat for whining about things he didn't care about to begin with.
He should just stick to drumming and stay off the intertubes.

But he's not whining about the prospect of joining DT. He's complaining about being put into the documentary, which he didn't want to happen from the beginning. Auditioning for the band and taking part in the documentary are two separate things.

[Jamesman42]

Auditioning for the band and taking part in the documentary are two separate things.

Not on DTF.

[02T]

rumborak, please.  Minnemann WANTED the DT gig.  They ALL did.  Badly.  Otherwise they wouldn't have been there.  Nothing will convince me otherwise.   

Nothing will convince you otherwise.  Not even the auditionee's own words.  I'm sure that attitude will serve you well in life.

[BlobVanDam]

But he's not whining about the prospect of joining DT. He's complaining about being put into the documentary, which he didn't want to happen from the beginning. Auditioning for the band and taking part in the documentary are two separate things.

He apparently didn't want to be in the documentary at all, or be in the band, but he signed to allow it, and did plenty of additional interview sections for it, which included saying that it would be good to join the band.
Watching the documentary again, there is no way he didn't have some good clue of what they were filming it for, and he willingly went along with all of it. The facts are telling me a different story to what Marco is (and to some of the theories in this thread).

[SnakeEyes]

Nothing will convince you otherwise.  Not even the auditionee's own words.  I'm sure that attitude will serve you well in life.

haha..... yeah, because no one EVER lies or tries to manipulate anyone with their own words.  Oh no, that never happens.  You're right.  I should just believe him and not question anything he does.  Because, "F-U DT" gives me such a good reason to trust him. 

[BlobVanDam]

Nothing will convince you otherwise.  Not even the auditionee's own words.  I'm sure that attitude will serve you well in life.

haha..... yeah, because no one EVER lies or tries to manipulate anyone with their own words.  Oh no, that never happens.  You're right.  I should just believe him and not question anything he does.  Because, "F-U DT" gives me such a good reason to trust him. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA

[FlashCE]

DT fucks Marco Minnemann over.

DT fans lose respect for Marco Minnemann.

Classic.

[SnakeEyes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA

hahahahaha

And, where's the EVIDENCE that, "DT fucked Marco over"?  Seriously, this is so ridiculous now.  The guy is a punk.  He auditioned for DT, didn't get in and he's pissed.  It's frigging obvious.  He needs to get the hell over it.  He didn't get in.  Go find another band. 

[FlashCE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA

hahahahaha

And, where's the EVIDENCE that, "DT fucked Marco over"?  Seriously, this is so ridiculous now.  The guy is a punk.  He auditioned for DT, didn't get in and he's pissed.  It's frigging obvious.  He needs to get the hell over it.  He didn't get in.  Go find another band.

Sorry I broke your heart by criticising your favourite band everrrrr.

[rumborak]

This thread is getting ridiculous.

rumborak

[GunsOfThePatriots]

WOW LUCKY DT . SO MUCH ATTORNEYS

[black_biff_stadler]

I'll put the over/under on number of posts until this thread gets locked at 8th one after this. I'll take the over but not by much...

[SnakeEyes]

Sorry I broke your heart by criticising your favourite band everrrrr.

If you think that I'm offended by criticism of DT, then you are so wrong it's not even funny.  You can criticize them all you want if it's a valid criticism or subjective.  But, this is just.... stupid.  I've been a fan of DT since 1993.  I've followed them from the pre-internet days through the first forum (DT.net) all the way until now in 2011.  Even PAST MEMBERS only have good things to say about DT.  They kicked Derek out for Jordan and even HE has nothing but positive things to say. 

So, the point is: DT has not had a reputation for being jerks.  I think, as fans, we really should back them up on this.  If something comes out and we find out otherwise, fine - I'll agree.  But, so far, it's "Marco against DT" and, sorry, DT is winning. 

[rumborak]

SnakeEyes, do you really think that just because nobody says anything, there's no person in DT's past that might have misgivings about them? There's such things as politics, you know. Besides, MP has said quite a few not-so-nice things about DT, and while I tend to side with DT on those things, I don't discredit MP's accounts completely either.
DT are nice people, and so is Marco. That doesn't mean there can't be discrepancies between the two. And no, I personally don't do "default guilt" as you seem to suggest we should do in this case. My personal judgment in this case is that DT+management have pulled a slightly shady move by using the footage for a documentary that neither of the auditionees knew about.

rumborak

[Cruithne]

When you don't need a job the purpose of an interview is not just for the company to decide if you're the person they want to hire but also the opportunity for you to decide if the company you're interviewing for is a place you want to work.

I think that for all but a couple of them the DT audition was being treated exactly like that. Mangini was the only one who really stood out as really wanting the job and Derek Roddy was the only one who came across as not being particularly interested, though this could well be down to the clichéd reality show editing.

I think Minnemann was just a little bit naive as to how gentlemanly (or perhaps not) the management of DT is. It's their business to look out for DT's best interests, not to play nice with the guy(s) who didn't get the job.

[Nekov]

Marco also stated in Facebook that as much as he would have liked to join DT, he was not willing to give up all his side projects just because the band demanded that.

[reneranucci]

I've attended at least 5 job interviews just to see how things go. I didn't want to leave my company, I wasn't interested in the job offering, but I just did that because it is important to meet people, to have experience in different interviews, and because maybe in the interview I could learn more things about the company and the job that would make me change my opinion. In no way I was dying to get the job but I decided to go anyway (and to make the effort to fill out the application and other processes). And I know many of you old enough to have a job have done likewise many times.

So I don't understand why so many people think that because a musician did an audition necessarily means that he wanted the job. Only a very young person with no experience in the labor market would think that, IMO.

I've watched the documentary many times, I enjoy it a lot and I'm glad Marco is there because he's such a fun guy to watch playing (I bought two of his instructional DVDs afterwards). And it can be clearly seen that Mangini was the only guy willing to cut off his nuts to get into DT. PW and AP were very enthusiastic about it too. The other guys? not so much. Just see their reactions:
MM gives a rather cold "yeah I can see myself being part of DT" which is as politically correct, non-committal as it can get.
VD essentially says "yeah it was fun. I'm cautiosly optimistic about the whole thing".
TL "yeah it was fun. Maybe we can do that again sometime".

Mangini sounds like a 13-year old girl wanting to be invited to a summer ball. She is much more intense about the prospects of being on DT than anybody else. Heck, he even brought about the marriage analogy (they're picking a partner for life, they have 7 pretty ladies to choose from, the have to pick well)  He states repeteadly that HE REAAAAAAAALLY WANTS THE JOB. After the audition, he's very nervous and excited about it going well. Before he receives the call, he's almost dying (WHY DID THEY TAKE SO LONG? MY BODY IS NOT WELL. THIS IS PAIIINFUUUUUUUUUL OOOH OOOH OOOH OOOOOOOH THE PAAAIIIIIN). And he orgasmed when he heard James whisper "welcome to the family" and he started crying afterwards (compare the whole thing to PW's reaction: "It's OK. No problem"). And he was willing to leave an stable job at Berklee to joing the band. The other guys probably wouldn't want to leave their projects.

Of course the band was able perceive if the drummers were really into joining DT or not, and that partly influence their decision. Many people said here "The others were great but Mangini really wanted the job so I'm glad they chose him". After watching the videos, it's not surprising that the other drummers say they didn't really want to join DT but they wanted to have the experience of auditioning. That's the natural conclusion one makes after watching the videos.

[chwik]

Well, no matter what you feel about the situation the "FU DT" comment from Marco was unncalled for.

[Orion1967]

My 0.02 on the topic.

0.01 i find if funny reading through this thread that people are pissy about the video of the auditions when what was it? 6 months ago? we were all sitting rock hard with baited breath waiting for the next installment to find out about who was chosen.  THEN, after it was revealed we pretty much ALL agreed it was the coolestthing since sliced bread and astro-glide.

0.02 Marco may or may not be pissed off at the guys, management, the pope, or anyone else but to even bring up the $500.00 is like him saying he felt he deserved more.  Again I have to agree with others statements (and yes, I am AWARE the $500 was for being in the video, so dont bother going down that path) that he got an all expense paid trip to NY to AUDITION for a permanant part in a band that he admittedly knew nothing about before the audition opportunity.  I mean come on how unplugged from the music world do you have to be to NOT know about a band that has been making music like DT for 25 years.... seriously?  Bottom line though is this, he admits he signed a release before auditioning, whether or not they stuck itunder his nose 17 weeks before the audition or 30 seconds before he played the first riff of teh audition, if he signed it then to quote Eddie Murpghy in Raw, "...Tell Bill to have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up".  I really enjoyed watching him in the video, I loved the hell out of watching him live during Jordan's Musical Mind Meld but as to the guys shafting him in any way shape or form I have a VERY DIFFICULT time believing that at all. 

[lordxizor]

The fact of the matter is that these auditions were as much for the drummers to see if DT was a good fit for them. At least three of the drummers seemed to think it wasn't. That doesn't mean that they didn't go into it thinking that it would be an awesome gig if they were still allowed certain aspects of freedom within and outside of DT. They found out the details and were no longer interested. No biggie. I'm at a point in my career that I am interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing me and have turned down offers and withdrawn from consideration of others because I knew it wasn't the right fit regardless of how good the company and money might be.

I think it was pretty clear that MM was looking for a gig that would allow him to play live and tour and to have the camaraderie of being in a band and a regular paycheck. He wasn't as concerned with the artistic freedom side of things, or he felt like his artistic side would mesh perfectly with DT. It looked to me from the audition that Wildoer would have taken the job if offered. Not so sure about the other guys. At least three of them probably wouldn't have. It's obviously hard to tell from a short documentary.

I feel bad that Minneman has a sour taste in his mouth from all of this. It shouldn't have been that way, but I'm sure DT and their management didn't do anything that Minneman didn't agree to in a contract of some sort. This goes to show again that DT is as much a business as a band. They improved their business by putting out the documentary and probably weren't super concerned if they ticked off a couple guys who didn't get or want the gig. It was a net positive experience for DT and likely all of the drummers.

[Orion1967]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVkGx4_GqA

hahahahaha

And, where's the EVIDENCE that, "DT fucked Marco over"?  Seriously, this is so ridiculous now.  The guy is a punk.  He auditioned for DT, didn't get in and he's pissed.  It's frigging obvious.  He needs to get the hell over it.  He didn't get in.  Go find another band.

Sorry I broke your heart by criticising your favourite band everrrrr.

So let me get this straight... in your opinion...  The definition of Fucked over is getting an all expenses paid trip to go to a job interview, then getting paid 500 bucks because the filmed your interview (something that YOU signed a PERMISSION slip for them to do), then when you didnt get the job you go to the internet and bitch about the company that didnt hire you but liked you enough to mention maybe doing some contract work with you? 

I think you need a dose of reality my friend.

[kirksnosehair]

Like Sands  through the hourglass, so are the days of our Dream Theater lives......

[jingle.boy]

*snip*

Great post.

[reneranucci]

Again I have to agree with others statements (and yes, I am AWARE the $500 was for being in the video, so dont bother going down that path) that he got an all expense paid trip to NY to AUDITION for a permanant part in a band that he admittedly knew nothing about before the audition opportunity.  I mean come on how unplugged from the music world do you have to be to NOT know about a band that has been making music like DT for 25 years.... seriously? 

He didn't say he didn't know about Dream Theater, he said he had never consciously listened to one of their songs. In the same way that I know who Beyonce, Justin Bieber, Van der Graaf Generator, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Coheed and Cambria, and Muse are, but I can't recall voluntarily pressing the play button to hear any of their songs.

[reneranucci]

The fact of the matter is that these auditions were as much for the drummers to see if DT was a good fit for them. At least three of the drummers seemed to think it wasn't. That doesn't mean that they didn't go into it thinking that it would be an awesome gig if they were still allowed certain aspects of freedom within and outside of DT. They found out the details and were no longer interested. No biggie. I'm at a point in my career that I am interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing me and have turned down offers and withdrawn from consideration of others because I knew it wasn't the right fit regardless of how good the company and money might be.

I think it was pretty clear that MM was looking for a gig that would allow him to play live and tour and to have the camaraderie of being in a band and a regular paycheck. He wasn't as concerned with the artistic freedom side of things, or he felt like his artistic side would mesh perfectly with DT. It looked to me from the audition that Wildoer would have taken the job if offered. Not so sure about the other guys. At least three of them probably wouldn't have. It's obviously hard to tell from a short documentary.

I feel bad that Minneman has a sour taste in his mouth from all of this. It shouldn't have been that way, but I'm sure DT and their management didn't do anything that Minneman didn't agree to in a contract of some sort. This goes to show again that DT is as much a business as a band. They improved their business by putting out the documentary and probably weren't super concerned if they ticked off a couple guys who didn't get or want the gig. It was a net positive experience for DT and likely all of the drummers.

Excellent post. You paint everything in a positive way because everything ended up well. DT got a fantastic drummer, the fans got some incredible videos of the best drummers of the world auditioning for DT, and the drummers got $500 and a good exposure of what they're capable of (except Derek who IMO didn't come up well from the videos, in part because of the recording problem they had).

[bosk1]

It's kind of funny (as in ironic) how this same situation has played itself out twice now in practically the same way.  When you watch the footage, including not only the audition portion itself, but also the parts where the drummers are just talking to camera or where the members of DT are talking about the drummers, everyone seems pretty happy with the experience and with each other.  After the fact, a couple of the guys have said they weren't 100% happy with the documentary for one reason or another.  And that's understandable.  I mean, you take Roddy for instance.  What you can see of the audition is mostly incredible.  He is spoken of very highly by the band.  And I'm sure there is a ton of amazing drumming we did not see.  But it also briefly shows where he struggled.  And that brief moment is necessary as part of the overall picture as to why Mangini was chosen, but that brief moment can create the impression that Roddy simply couldn't cut it.  So, yeah, I can see why, after the fact, he might not be 100% thrilled with it.  But the almost-immediate feedback seemed to be that everyone was happy with one another, DT were really impressed with him as a drummer and as a person, and everything was relatively cool. 

It's funny that you don't really see Roddy or Minnemann "lash out" in any sense until way down the road when kind of pushed by fans about certain things about the audition.  Let me repeat that because I think it is very telling:  Neither of these guys really has anything negative to say until pushed by fans about the audition.  That, to me, makes me take any bit of controversy with a huge grain of salt.  It's very easy for fans (of both the band and of these individual drummers) to stir up controversy by pushing a button by prying too much into the private details of something that was entirely between DT and these drummers.  But it just seems to me like there really isn't anything much there of any significance.

[7StringedBeast]

That and also after the fact they found out they didn't get the job lol

[SnakeEyes]

bosk - I understand what you're saying about the videos showing some of them struggling and maybe that they were trying to lean us away from that particular drummer.  However, they obviously thought Mangini was the best drummer for DT and they had already hired him when they edited the documentary.  So, my point is:  obviously they're going to show you some of the reasons WHY they chose him over the other guys.  And, one of the reasons is what you mentioned:  struggling with the music, or changing the drum parts.... whatever it might have been.  I don't have an issue with that at all. 

I think Marco is just a whiner.  Just my opinion. 

[bosk1]

bosk - I understand what you're saying about the videos showing some of them struggling and maybe that they were trying to lean us away from that particular drummer.  However, they obviously thought Mangini was the best drummer for DT and they had already hired him when they edited the documentary.  So, my point is:  obviously they're going to show you some of the reasons WHY they chose him over the other guys.  And, one of the reasons is what you mentioned:  struggling with the music, or changing the drum parts.... whatever it might have been.  I don't have an issue with that at all.   

I don't have an issue with it either.  I'm just saying that...well, actually, I'm saying two things about it.  First, I can see if some of them after the fact felt like, "oh, man.  I wish they didn't show that part."  Not because there's anything wrong with showing it.  But even if the documentary shows 100 things they did that were awesome, show that one little mistake, and that's what some people (and probably the drummers themselves) will fixate on.  That's just human nature.  Second, it gives those who are hypercritical some ammo to fuel the fire where there really shouldn't be any fire to fuel in the first place.  I can almost guarantee that if fans didn't bring the audition videos up to Marco and Derek, they probably wouldn't have said anything at all, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  That was my point.

[SnakeEyes]

Yeah, I understand..... I agree. 

[jdprsaga]

There is more than a million views for the documentary, which might reduce to a couple of hundred people who viewed the documentary and saw how it was a close match between Mike and Marco and how the guys from DT were amazed by Marco.

If i were Marco i would be like.. ok, it didn't went as i wanted but not everything is bad, i got a big exposure, people is talking in a good way about my drumming.. so, i will move on and take all the good things with me and left the bad thing behind.

At least I bought his "The Aristocrats" album and i didn't knew anything about him before he auditioned for DT.

[reneranucci]

There is more than a million views for the documentary, which might reduce to a couple of hundred people who viewed the documentary and saw how it was a close match between Mike and Marco and how the guys from DT were amazed by Marco.

If i were Marco i would be like.. ok, it didn't went as i wanted but not everything is bad, i got a big exposure, people is talking in a good way about my drumming.. so, i will move on and take all the good things with me and left the bad thing behind.

At least I bought his "The Aristocrats" album and i didn't knew anything about him before he auditioned for DT.

That's certainly a very good way to see things. (What's your opinion on the album?)

I wouldn't say he's a whiner or a sore loser. I'd say he feels genuinely aggravated and disappointed; because from his point of view the band broke several promises, and that's why he's complaining.

[Jaffa]

Neither of these guys really has anything negative to say until pushed by fans about the audition.  That, to me, makes me take any bit of controversy with a huge grain of salt.  It's very easy for fans (of both the band and of these individual drummers) to stir up controversy by pushing a button by prying too much into the private details of something that was entirely between DT and these drummers.  But it just seems to me like there really isn't anything much there of any significance.

I can almost guarantee that if fans didn't bring the audition videos up to Marco and Derek, they probably wouldn't have said anything at all, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  That was my point.

I think bosk won the game.

Some people in this thread are acting like the man filed a lawsuit or held a press conference to talk about this stuff.  As far as I can tell, he's made exactly two comments, both of them on Facebook, both of them in reaction to fan comments.  He's not exactly going out of his way to make a big deal out of this. 

I went on Blabbermouth and searched for 'Marco Minneman'.  The only results I got were related to the results of the audition process; I saw nothing about this Facebook post of his.  Now, maybe I just missed it, so correct me if I'm wrong.  But if even Blabbermouth isn't fussed about it... does that mean that the DTF has officially surpassed Blabbermouth in terms of drama-seeking?

For the record, I'm not condoning or condemning Marco's behavior, and I'm not trying to side with anybody.  My reaction to the whole thing is a giant 'who cares?'

[Zook]

It's pretty dickish to waste DT's time and money if they didn't even want the job and just did it "for fun" or "because they asked me too". I'm sure word get's around quick in the drumming world, so I seriously doubt they didn't know DT was serious about finding a new drummer, and that that's what these auditions were for. If Marco didn't want his footage shown, he shouldn't have agreed to sit in the make up chair, the interview chair, and in front of the damn cameras.