Author Topic: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals  (Read 2493 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« on: October 29, 2011, 09:55:46 PM »
My school is really big on food industry issues. Classes that flush out the food industry are popular.


Personally I don't see anything wrong with consuming animals in general.  Humans are heterotrophs, and need to eat living things or a product of living things.  That's a fact.


But should we care if the animals we eat have suffered?  That's where I'm not sure.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline zxlkho

  • Official Dream Theater Hater.
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 10:10:13 PM »
I'm pretty sure that every animal you have ever eaten or ever will eat will have "suffered." They have to be killed in some way obviously.
I AM A GUY
You're a fucking stupid bitch.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2011, 10:53:00 PM »
Well, I don't mean just the death of the animal.  It takes time for them to grow to the size they need to grow to...
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2011, 10:58:06 PM »
I'm pretty sure that every animal you have ever eaten or ever will eat will have "suffered." They have to be killed in some way obviously.

Eh, death is horrible, but its not really experienced. It may be other things, but death does not inflict suffering upon the victim.

I think we should be as humane to animals while they live, and do our best to kill them as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

Quote
Humans are heterotrophs, and need to eat living things or a product of living things.  That's a fact.

This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30560
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2011, 11:05:12 PM »
Quote
Don't kid yourself, Jimmy.  If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you car about.

Kind of torn on the whole deal.  It's not the killing them part that bothers me;  a captive bolt pistol has to be better than being chased down and eaten by a larger animal.  It's actually the whole breading animals and raising them for slaughter part that I have issue with. 

In the grand scheme of things,  it really doesn't trouble me too much, though.  Too many unanswerable questions to get riled up about the ethics of it all.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline TempusVox

  • Descendant of Primus
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5503
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 11:08:57 PM »
I agree with everything that you said about us eating other living things. Personally, I don't think our food needs to, or should for that matter suffer. When I practiced law, our firm represented a large poultry supplier in Arkansas. They were being sued by a former employee and I had to fly down for a deposition. I was given a tour of the facility. It was a state of the art enterprise. The cages were cleaned and disinfected multiple times each day, so the place smelled like a hospital, more than anything else. It was kind of nauseating. A device held open the beak of the chickens for most of the day, and they were forced fed vitamins, water, antibiotics and lots and lots of feed. The production goal of this "factory" was "hatched to fryer in 26 days". So when people were cooking the chicken they just bought at the store, it was on average only 26 days old. The whole thing swore me off poultry for about 6 months. But I got over it. I do try to eat now only organically raised products, and free range chicken and turkey as much as I can. Studies have shown that meat that is stress free is better for our consumption, but more importantly, I know that animals feel pain. There is no reason to be cruel to an animal, even if it's going to be our food.
You don't HAVE a soul.You ARE a soul.You HAVE a body.
"I came here to drink milk and kick ass; and I just finished my milk."

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2011, 11:11:08 PM »
This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?
My roommate was telling me about some study that they hooked up neurological sensors (lie detectors I think) to plants and found that plants responded to stimuli, such as being threatened and stuff. 

But yeah...plants are just as alive as animals are.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline the Catfishman

  • Posts: 490
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2011, 01:36:09 AM »
This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?
My roommate was telling me about some study that they hooked up neurological sensors (lie detectors I think) to plants and found that plants responded to stimuli, such as being threatened and stuff. 

But yeah...plants are just as alive as animals are.

.... neurological sensors to a plant? how would that work.. which neurons, how would they pick up on threats? lol..

Offline Dark Castle

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6532
  • Gender: Female
  • SmegmaPrincessX
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2011, 01:43:42 AM »
My composition teacher is basing our entire composition class upon Fast Food Nation, and Food Inc. both made to slam how we treat animals(future food).
Honestly, I don't bother myself, because to feed a nation, you have to keep up in pace with production, and I'm not going to cry over the hamburger in front of me if the cows it came from didn't live the high life.  Probably a bit cruel, but that's just how I feel.

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2011, 01:56:45 AM »
This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?
My roommate was telling me about some study that they hooked up neurological sensors (lie detectors I think) to plants and found that plants responded to stimuli, such as being threatened and stuff. 

But yeah...plants are just as alive as animals are.

.... neurological sensors to a plant? how would that work.. which neurons, how would they pick up on threats? lol..

I don't think the results of that exact study have been replicated, but scientists have found a portion of the tip of roots which show neuron like electrical behavior. Compare the root system to the brain, and you start getting into some murky territory.


Offline Rathma

  • Posts: 620
  • oh no she didnt

Offline William Wallace

  • Posts: 2791
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2011, 08:22:56 AM »
Guys, go watch Food Inc. That documentary seriously changed my life.

Offline Orthogonal

  • Posts: 916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2011, 08:42:03 AM »
This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?
My roommate was telling me about some study that they hooked up neurological sensors (lie detectors I think) to plants and found that plants responded to stimuli, such as being threatened and stuff. 

But yeah...plants are just as alive as animals are.

Lol, How does someone threaten a plant. Flash garden tools?

Offline zxlkho

  • Official Dream Theater Hater.
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7666
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2011, 11:13:27 AM »
Guys, go watch Food Inc. That documentary seriously changed my life.

I wrote a paper about this documentary when I was a senior in high school. Really great documentary.
I AM A GUY
You're a fucking stupid bitch.
Orion....that's the one with a bunch of power chords and boringly harsh vocals, isn't it?

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2011, 11:15:35 AM »
If they really cared they'd make a garden with plenty of nutritious foods. "The cries of the carrots"
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2011, 12:38:19 PM »
This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?
My roommate was telling me about some study that they hooked up neurological sensors (lie detectors I think) to plants and found that plants responded to stimuli, such as being threatened and stuff. 

But yeah...plants are just as alive as animals are.

Lol, How does someone threaten a plant. Flash garden tools?

I think they like yelled at it. I think sometimes they threatened with fire (that makes a little sense, since fire is a natural danger for plants).

But ya, don't think those results have been replicated.

As as a side note, why do certain types of music help plants grow?

Offline Dark Castle

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6532
  • Gender: Female
  • SmegmaPrincessX
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2011, 01:38:21 PM »
Guys, go watch Food Inc. That documentary seriously changed my life.
I've seen it twice now, and it hasn't changed my thinking whatsoever. 

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2011, 02:45:28 PM »
Guys, go watch Food Inc. That documentary seriously changed my life.

I wrote a paper about this documentary when I was a senior in high school. Really great documentary.
Yup. Not only do we treat the animals like shit, the end product is less healthy and quite likely to be actually unsafe.

Offline orcus116

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 9599
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2011, 02:58:22 PM »
Unsafe or immune system booster? I rest my case.

Offline Orthogonal

  • Posts: 916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2011, 03:06:08 PM »
This. How do I know plants don't suffer when I eat them? I would love it if I could feed myself on sunlight - what need for work then? That's actually an interesting thought... do plants not do much because they don't need to work for their survival?
My roommate was telling me about some study that they hooked up neurological sensors (lie detectors I think) to plants and found that plants responded to stimuli, such as being threatened and stuff. 

But yeah...plants are just as alive as animals are.

Lol, How does someone threaten a plant. Flash garden tools?

I think they like yelled at it. I think sometimes they threatened with fire (that makes a little sense, since fire is a natural danger for plants).

But ya, don't think those results have been replicated.

As as a side note, why do certain types of music help plants grow?

On yeah, I think Mythbuster's did an episode on that. Strangely, classical music and heavy metal increased plant growth over other forms of music. Not sure what the mechanism to do that would be.

Offline antigoon

  • Not Elvis
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 10293
  • Gender: Male
  • This was a triumph.
Re: Consuming Animals/Animal Products from suffering animals
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2011, 03:10:52 PM »
Unsafe or immune system booster? I rest my case.
:lol